What I think should be changed.???

PADDY FLYNN

To whom this may concern

I would like to put forward my suggestions on how I feel our state should be governed. I would appreciate hearing the opinions of others and hopefully get some feedback on same.

To quote the words of Abraham Lincoln we should have "A government for the people by the people" and all the elected representatives should be accountable to the electorate.

Government: New Establishment.
1. Governor
2. Vice Governor
3. Senators - 27 in number plus 1 chairperson
4. Mayors - 26 in number ( one for each county )
Department secretaries to be appointed by the incoming governor.

Secretaries to be totally responsible for their departments and answerable to the governor and the senate.

The Attorney General to be appointed by the governor and senate, other appointments by the governor and senate: governor of central bank, chief medical officer, garda commissioner and chief of staff for the defence forces

- salaries to range from max €200,000 to minimum of €100,000.

No pension for any political appointment for one term.

Public and civil servants - 50% of salary after 31 years of service.

All expenses incurred will be paid on production of receipt of same.

Free public transport to be used where available. Staff cars to be used if public transport not available

Revenue

PRSI on all incomes at 10%

All salaries 5% pension contributions

Income Tax Bands:-
15,000 Rate of 5%
20,000 " " 10%
30,000 " " 15%
40,000 " " 20%
50,000 " " 25%
60,000 " " 30%
70,000 " " 35%
75,000 + " " 45%

All lands to be taxed at €20.00 per acre P.A vat to remain the same

Social Welfare Departments

Social welfare recipients to do 1 hours work for every €10.00, i.e. approx 18 hours per week. Their income can then be supplemented by taking up any further employment of their choosing, without losing their benefit. Failure to present themselves for work schemes will result in loss of payment of benefit.

Unoccupied military barracks to be used to house and cater for homeless people and to rehabilitate them.

Justice Department

Free legal aid can only be used once
Off shore high security detention center to be used for serious crime including "white collar" crime. Life sentence to mean life.

Foreign Affairs

No duplication of ambassadors - diplomatic appointments to be filled from the European Union.

Person seeking asylum will be assessed in accordance with UN charter.

Persons travelling within the European Union will be given a rate of Social
Welfare in accordance with the rate applicable in their countries of origin.

Health Department

All doctors working in the Health Service to be paid a salary at a maximum of €125,000 minimum payment will be €60,000 - Salary for a 40 hour week.

Public and private health care to be separate.

Medical prescriptions- charge of €10.00 per prescription

Hospital stays - €20.00 per day for all adults

All medical aids - charge of €20.00

Nursing staff - employed in nursing care not doing clerical duties

Salary - Max €70,000
Min €30,000

Department of Education

Salary - Max €80,000
Min €30,000

Free education for all

Department of Environment

All fresh water to be used, stored and marketed

All wetlands and poor lands to be reclaimed and turned into grasslands- funds used for reclamation of lands.

All suitable mountain regions to be planted with forestry.

Waters from mountains rivers and streams where possible to be dammed and used for generating hydro electricity.

Vast earning for the state can be achieved by the export of water.

Harness wind and wave power from the West Coast- have a national campaign to have all dwellings solar powered.

Reclaim fishing grounds from 12 miles - 20 miles for Irish fishing exclusively.

Electrified Rail Service - cheep travel by rail for all. How this can be achieved is available by request.

Discontinuation of Green Diesel. All heating and diesel fuel expenditure can be reclaimed by all.

hfallada

If any of the above happens when I graduate Im getting the first plane of here. Setting maximum wage levels is a ridiculous concept. Yes you save money but at the same time you only attract the people who will work for X amount and not the people with skills necessary who cost more.

I do agree that lower income people need to contribute more in the form of PRSI and PAYE. The idea that we all the same welfare benefits is not in anyway logical. In Switzerland you unemployment benefit is 70% of your last wage which is gradually reduced. This results in low income people returning to work and not like in Ireland where they are often better off on benefit.

ArmaniJeanss

PADDY FLYNN wrote: »

Government: New Establishment.
1. Governor
2. Vice Governor
3. Senators - 27 in number plus 1 chairperson
4. Mayors - 26 in number ( one for each county )

Why do so many such bizarre proposals embrace the county system?
It's vastly differing populations make it barely usable for GAA sports, how crazy would we have to be to consider running an entire country on that principle?

beeno67

PADDY FLYNN wrote: »

To whom this may concern

I would like to put forward my suggestions on how I feel our state should be governed. I would appreciate hearing the opinions of others and hopefully get some feedback on same.

To quote the words of Abraham Lincoln we should have "A government for the people by the people" and all the elected representatives should be accountable to the electorate.

Government: New Establishment.
1. Governor
2. Vice Governor
3. Senators - 27 in number plus 1 chairperson
4. Mayors - 26 in number ( one for each county )
Department secretaries to be appointed by the incoming governor.

Secretaries to be totally responsible for their departments and answerable to the governor and the senate.

The Attorney General to be appointed by the governor and senate, other appointments by the governor and senate: governor of central bank, chief medical officer, garda commissioner and chief of staff for the defence forces

- salaries to range from max €200,000 to minimum of €100,000.

No pension for any political appointment for one term.

Public and civil servants - 50% of salary after 31 years of service.

All expenses incurred will be paid on production of receipt of same.

Free public transport to be used where available. Staff cars to be used if public transport not available

Revenue

PRSI on all incomes at 10%

All salaries 5% pension contributions

Income Tax Bands:-
15,000 Rate of 5%
20,000 " " 10%
30,000 " " 15%
40,000 " " 20%
50,000 " " 25%
60,000 " " 30%
70,000 " " 35%
75,000 + " " 45%

All lands to be taxed at €20.00 per acre P.A vat to remain the same

Social Welfare Departments

Social welfare recipients to do 1 hours work for every €10.00, i.e. approx 18 hours per week. Their income can then be supplemented by taking up any further employment of their choosing, without losing their benefit. Failure to present themselves for work schemes will result in loss of payment of benefit.

Unoccupied military barracks to be used to house and cater for homeless people and to rehabilitate them.

Justice Department

Free legal aid can only be used once
Off shore high security detention center to be used for serious crime including "white collar" crime. Life sentence to mean life.

Foreign Affairs

No duplication of ambassadors - diplomatic appointments to be filled from the European Union.

Person seeking asylum will be assessed in accordance with UN charter.

Persons travelling within the European Union will be given a rate of Social
Welfare in accordance with the rate applicable in their countries of origin.

Health Department

All doctors working in the Health Service to be paid a salary at a maximum of €125,000 minimum payment will be €60,000 - Salary for a 40 hour week.

Public and private health care to be separate.

Medical prescriptions- charge of €10.00 per prescription

Hospital stays - €20.00 per day for all adults

All medical aids - charge of €20.00

Nursing staff - employed in nursing care not doing clerical duties

Salary - Max €70,000
Min €30,000

Department of Education

Salary - Max €80,000
Min €30,000

Free education for all

Department of Environment

All fresh water to be used, stored and marketed

All wetlands and poor lands to be reclaimed and turned into grasslands- funds used for reclamation of lands.

All suitable mountain regions to be planted with forestry.

Waters from mountains rivers and streams where possible to be dammed and used for generating hydro electricity.

Vast earning for the state can be achieved by the export of water.

Harness wind and wave power from the West Coast- have a national campaign to have all dwellings solar powered.

Reclaim fishing grounds from 12 miles - 20 miles for Irish fishing exclusively.

Electrified Rail Service - cheep travel by rail for all. How this can be achieved is available by request.

Discontinuation of Green Diesel. All heating and diesel fuel expenditure can be reclaimed by all.

All a load of nonsense really. Is anything costed?

AlekSmart

beeno67 wrote: »

All a load of nonsense really. Is anything costed?

A question which could be equally posed of our Governments over the past two decades,where most of the "Costings" tended to be done on the back of a convienent envelope.

The OP's nonsense quotient is no better or worse than that which Official Ireland operated by for decades,with the active connivance of its adult electorate.

JP 1800

The best way to enact a change is to become more involved, albeit in the community or politics itself, we as a people need to become more mature about how and whom we elect. I find that we Irish can be a contrary at times but do not act upon it. There are some nice sentiments in the OPs post but as stated a lot of the suggestions would never work or be impractical from a financial or social perspective.

"I do agree that lower income people need to contribute more in the form of PRSI and PAYE. The idea that we all the same welfare benefits is not in anyway logical. In Switzerland you unemployment benefit is 70% of your last wage which is gradually reduced. This results in low income people returning to work and not like in Ireland where they are often better off on benefit."

I totally agree with the above statement and believe that we need a true social insurance scheme.

hfallada

Like I told a group of Germans everyone gets the same pension regardless of how much they pay in PRSI and they asked to repeat what I had said as they couldnt believe what they were hearing. In a few decades Ireland will have a huge social welfare deficit unless people start to contribute more in PRSI and the PRSI is saved for future generations and not spent now when a majority of the population is still young

Lbeard

ArmaniJeanss wrote: »

Why do so many such bizarre proposals embrace the county system?
It's vastly differing populations make it barely usable for GAA sports, how crazy would we have to be to consider running an entire country on that principle?

Because the mindset of the scheme creator has a bockety rural GAA plan in mind. Jobs for the boys. Digging holes, and traffic calming measures down boreens that only see traffic when a tourist gets lost. Big manly 4x4s and manly men walking around in wellington boots. And of course, improvements for the local GAA facilities. This is one of the reasons Fianna Fail are still so popular in rural areas.

I'm only surprised there isn't a spot for the local parish priest in the plan. I'm sure he'd make an appearance. Blessing traffic calming measures and new practice fields for the local GAA.

Lbeard

hfallada wrote: »

I do agree that lower income people need to contribute more in the form of PRSI and PAYE. The idea that we all the same welfare benefits is not in anyway logical. In Switzerland you unemployment benefit is 70% of your last wage which is gradually reduced. This results in low income people returning to work and not like in Ireland where they are often better off on benefit.

The previous income indexed social welfare system has been gotten rid of in most countries (Germany had it up to a few years ago). Because people who were previously on high incomes, would not take low income jobs. If you were earning 40K, on a 70% system you would be getting 31k in social welfare. You would not take a job stacking shelves in a super market would you?

I had a friend who was a Swiss banker. I asked him why do people who work in financial services have such strange and unreal notions about economics. He said because they live in La La land. They're in a complete fantasy world.

Low waged people are on such low wages it does not allow them to save for retirement. Wing nuts seem to expect that they should live on fresh air, and the dignity of work, and then conveniently die. At current interest rates it would take 1,000,000 to pay an annuity of 20k. How is a low waged person to save that much money if it's more than they could earn in a life time?

How pensions work. People in their working lives create wealth - acceptance of lower wages (competivity, and flexibility) are an essential component, especially in a globalised economy. Then those they paid to educate and feed, when they were too young to do so for themselves, look after them in their old age. Expecting a low waged person to fund their own retirement is as stupid as expecting a baby to work for its' food and care. StOoPud.

We're currently screwed because of all the rocket scientists in the financial services are ultimately stupid.

All money is debt. It's a very complex system but, when people are given pocket money as children, the complexity vanishes, giving an illusion that money is something that can be accumulated and possessed. The childish mind thinks that if everyone saved as many pennies for their retirement as they could - living on bread an water in the meantime. It would not work at all. It's the stupidity of child. The times I've heard misers, griping about how they scrimped and saved for their retirement while everyone else lavishly spent their money, if doesn't cross the misers mind that without the spenders they would have had nothing to save.

Funding pensions for the future is not getting people to contribute more money to a pension fund. All will happen will be the spivs and parasites in the pension industry - who create nothing in their warm and comfortable offices - taking the cash, and splurging on real world goods for themselves. After they've taken their cut, what's left of the money they've been entrusted will just be placed in financial schemes, where it will be placed in other financial schemes, and ultimately squandered on office blocks and ghost estates, and other inefficiencies.

To fund pensions is to do with demographics and the distribution of money in the economy. Young people should be able to afford to have children, and spend on themselves and their children. It's the only sustainable way of doing this. Misers are essentially free loaders.

macraignil

The environmental policy sounds a bit rough on the natural environment. If we don't allow some water to flow there would be massive loss of wildlife habitats and problems with existing water supply schemes and sewage. To turn our wetlands into grassland would also destroy some valuable natural areas that could give a much better economic return if developed to promote tourism. Wave power and many hydroelectric power schemes are expensive for the amount of energy they produce and the requirement under current environmental impact legislation to provide detailed reports on such developments adds to the cost. The free electric rail for the country sounds great. Will it cost more than the lewis in Dublin? Not sure many businesses would be happy to loose the green diesel fuel discount or if "All heating and diesel fuel expenditure can be reclaimed by all. " is possible?

JP 1800

Lbeard wrote: »

The previous income indexed social welfare system has been gotten rid of in most countries (Germany had it up to a few years ago). Because people who were previously on high incomes, would not take low income jobs. If you were earning 40K, on a 70% system you would be getting 31k in social welfare. You would not take a job stacking shelves in a super market would you?

No one in their right mind would advocate an indefinite receipt of welfare as a percentage of ones previous wage, the system has a set time period as it can be fairly assumed that those on a higher wage would have a higher monthly outgoing. This system allows for those individuals to continue to service their financial responsibilities for a few months while seeking suitable employment or coming to alternative arrangements.

Lbeard

JP 1800 wrote: »

No one in their right mind would advocate an indefinite receipt of welfare as a percentage of ones previous wage, the system has a set time period as it can be fairly assumed that those on a higher wage would have a higher monthly outgoing.

What are you saying? That because better off people are used to having money for nice cars, houses, etc, and poor people are not, then it's only fair they're given more. What else do you want?.....A separate dole office so the upper classes don't have to mix with the low.

Let's be straight about this. The vast majority of people on high wages in Ireland, outside of the especially skilled, are in their jobs due to nepotism and discrimination. This is the way it works in every country.

This system allows for those individuals to continue to service their financial responsibilities for a few months while seeking suitable employment or coming to alternative arrangements.

It's one of these things that sounds wonderful in practice - an indeed to a certain extent very fair. And I have been in the position where I have gone from earning a good wage to nada in rapid order.

The tragic reality; people are rational actors and will abuse the system. In Germany, people were gaming it. Get a job, wait until you had qualified for the higher welfare, and then get fired. The higher benefits eventually timed out, though they could be stretched for years. People seriously gaming the system, would live frugally, saving their benefit for the leaner years when it was reduced. Then after a very long period they would return to work. The German's radically overhauled the system a few years ago, now it's more like the Irish system.

In some states in America they have the link, and people do abuse it. (Some American states have a much cushier system than ours.) People will work, get to the point they qualify for higher welfare, and then get themselves fired.

There is a big problem in Ireland. The health board have cut, and now tightly limit rent allowance, I've known a few people who've literally lost the roof over their heads after losing their jobs. And there's about ten new people sleeping rough on the streets of Dublin every week. But it wasn't just cut backs to save money. Many landlords around the country were gaming the system. Charging well in excess of the local market rates because they could get away with it.

Indexing social welfare to previous wages would be great if people would not abuse it. But it is abused everywhere.

JP 1800

Lbeard wrote: »

What are you saying? That because better off people are used to having money for nice cars, houses, etc, and poor people are not, then it's only fair they're given more. What else do you want?.....A separate dole office so the upper classes don't have to mix with the low.

You are turning a logical argument into an emotional one, it is nothing to do with those better off being used to having money but that those who paid more into a system like any other insurance scheme would expect to get a proportional return. With regards to having a higher outgoing the majority of rational people live within their means, some have higher means than others thus their outgoing vary accordingly. By the way I personally do not believe we have a class system in this country just a perceived one.

Markcheese

A fabulous post worthy of Mao and his great leaps forward , and if we lose only 1/4 of the population it'll be a small price to pay ...

SCOOP 64

The social welfare bit ,so if i do 40hrs a week , €400 a week,kind like a job. i would be happy with that.

jester77

Lbeard wrote: »

The previous income indexed social welfare system has been gotten rid of in most countries (Germany had it up to a few years ago). Because people who were previously on high incomes, would not take low income jobs. If you were earning 40K, on a 70% system you would be getting 31k in social welfare. You would not take a job stacking shelves in a super market would you?

Germany still have that system, all they did was lower the amount of time one could claim benefits. It is now set at roughly 66% of last income for previous 12 months for 12 months. After that you have to qualify for Hartz IV. This means you have to first liquidate any assets and use up savings before you will get any more help. If you are living in a house that is deemed too large then you have to sell or move out. Only then you are entitled to Hartz IV, roughly 400 a month, plus accommodation somewhere that meets their strict criteria in terms of price and size.

JP 1800

Markcheese wrote: »

A fabulous post worthy of Mao and his great leaps forward , and if we lose only 1/4 of the population it'll be a small price to pay ...

Wow I have been called a few things but communist shows how little understanding you have in my posts. I am not saying that all animals are equal but some are more equal than others, I am advocating a system that is fair to all, the more you put in the more you can receive if needed. I believe in a meritocratic society.

Lbeard

JP 1800 wrote: »

You are turning a logical argument into an emotional one, it is nothing to do with those better off being used to having money but that those who paid more into a system like any other insurance scheme would expect to get a proportional return.

Your argument is not logical. It's making an appeal on the basis of what you believe to be fair. It's not how it works at all.

A couple of private insurance companies have tried selling employment insurance. The operations usually go belly up for one reason or another. Mostly due to the fact people who know they're on track to getting fired, or people with the intention of gaming take out the policies. But they're scams anyway.

With regards to having a higher outgoing the majority of rational people live within their means, some have higher means than others thus their outgoing vary accordingly.

Rational just means having a reason. That lump, (I can't remember his name, and I'm going to bother looking it up), who got the admin job in UCC with the huge wage. To justify the criticism of his high wage, he said now that he had a bigger job he needed a bigger house. And this is why people during the boom bought houses that stretched their income to breaking point. They had to show they were big men and big women, so as to be worthy of their wages. If you want to be a big manager, you must live in a house fit for a manager, and drive a car fit for a manager. In one sense it's not rational to spend more money than you need, but in another if you need to spend that money to keep your job or get promoted, then you need to.

By the way I personally do not believe we have a class system in this country just a perceived one.

Ireland is a class ridden society. If you can't see it you have blinkers on, or you're being dishonest with yourself. Or are you one of these middle-class people who says "we don't discriminate on the basis of age, race, or class.........just on personality".

It can be hard to believe we do have a class system, because the upper classes tend to be so scaldy and generally thick as planks. But we do.

zielarz

Forget about indexing, I have a better proposal: you can't take more than you paid into the system. Fair and simple.

Lbeard

zielarz wrote: »

Forget about indexing, I have a better proposal: you can't take more than you paid into the system. Fair and simple.

So we shouldn't let children go to school unless they've worked a few years and paid taxes

Fair and simple.

Simple indeed.

JP 1800

Lbeard wrote: »

Your argument is not logical. It's making an appeal on the basis of what you believe to be fair. It's not how it works at all

Well that's how it works in Germany and other European countries as a point of fact therefore logical point.

Lbeard wrote: »

A couple of private insurance companies have tried selling employment insurance. The operations usually go belly up for one reason or another. Mostly due to the fact people who know they're on track to getting fired, or people with the intention of gaming take out the policies. But they're scams anyway.

That would be the insurance companies downfall for not taking prudent measures to ensure that this situation can not arise. I cannot believe that some one would work for years to build up a good remuneration package and then throw it all away to receive a smaller compensation.

Lbeard wrote: »

Rational just means having a reason. That lump, (I can't remember his name, and I'm going to bother looking it up), who got the admin job in UCC with the huge wage. To justify the criticism of his high wage, he said now that he had a bigger job he needed a bigger house. And this is why people during the boom bought houses that stretched their income to breaking point. They had to show they were big men and big women, so as to be worthy of their wages. If you want to be a big manager, you must live in a house fit for a manager, and drive a car fit for a manager. In one sense it's not rational to spend more money than you need, but in another if you need to spend that money to keep your job or get promoted, then you need to.

I can see you are aggrieved, particularly with some aspects of the Celtic bubble period and I will mostly agree with your sentiment.

Lbeard wrote: »

Ireland is a class ridden society. If you can't see it you have blinkers on, or you're being dishonest with yourself. Or are you one of these middle-class people who says "we don't discriminate on the basis of age, race, or class.........just on personality".

It can be hard to believe we do have a class system, because the upper classes tend to be so scaldy and generally thick as planks. But we do.

You are outlining the inequalities in society in general and defining it as the class system while the crux of my initial point was the inequalities with our current welfare system. I am not trying to single you out, you make very compelling points which is in the spirit of any forum.

respectfully
JP

JP 1800

zielarz wrote: »

Forget about indexing, I have a better proposal: you can't take more than you paid into the system. Fair and simple.

The whole idea of the indexing system is that you cannot take more out than you put in.

JP 1800

Lbeard wrote: »

So we shouldn't let children go to school unless they've worked a few years and paid taxes

Fair and simple.

Simple indeed.

We invest in our children so they have the best possibility of paying taxes in the future. Who do you think will be looking after our sorry asses in the future.

FreudianSlippers

Jeebus. That income tax proposal is insanely high. 45% at 75k FML

djpbarry

Lbeard wrote: »

Let's be straight about this. The vast majority of people on high wages in Ireland, outside of the especially skilled, are in their jobs due to nepotism and discrimination.

Yeah, it’s not like anyone gets anywhere with hard work, is it?

Lbeard wrote: »

Ireland is a class ridden society.

It really isn’t. It’s comparatively easy for someone from a disadvantaged background to work their way up the social strata in Ireland, relative to the UK for example.

Zubeneschamali

PADDY FLYNN wrote: »

All wetlands and poor lands to be reclaimed and turned into grasslands- funds used for reclamation of lands.

Wow, back to the 1930s "drain the Shannon" Devalera nonsense.

Geuze

FreudianSlippers wrote: »

Jeebus. That income tax proposal is insanely high. 45% at 75k FML

Note that the proposed income tax rate is lower than the current regime.

Currently, after about 35k, the marginal tax rate is 52%.

Lbeard

JP 1800 wrote: »

That would be the insurance companies downfall for not taking prudent measures to ensure that this situation can not arise. I cannot believe that some one would work for years to build up a good remuneration package and then throw it all away to receive a smaller compensation.

People walk out on good paying jobs all the time. There are lots of reasons for doing so. You could have a better one lined up. You might know your job is about to be finished. You could intend starting your own business.

It's not like a car crash. An insurance company can calculate the statistical likelihood of you having a car crash. They can even calculate the level of fraud. Job losses are something else.

The SI in PRSI stands for social insurance - it is a form of insurance. American companies want social security privatized. So they can gouge it.

Lbeard

djpbarry wrote: »

Yeah, it’s not like anyone gets anywhere with hard work, is it?

Oh here we go again with the herd werk. All those eejits given cash to build ghost estates and speculate on Romanian holiday apartments, were lent the money on the basis of their social class - not that the schemes ever made sense, because they didn't. The higher in the social hierarchy the more money they were lent.

Herd werk.

Werk is for the werking classes. Have you ever seen a human resource manager do a days work?.....neither have they.

It really isn’t. It’s comparatively easy for someone from a disadvantaged background to work their way up the social strata in Ireland, relative to the UK for example.

Oh please. The social strata in Ireland means that people with no aptitudes or competence get high paying jobs, where other people do the actual work.

I could tell you similar stories, but at a friends work place, a big IT job was coming up - 70k - plenty of people capable of doing the job. The company gave the job to a builder, with no IT experience. But he was of the right class - someone who deserved the money, though a comedown from what he was earning before he ran bildin company into the ground. Now, I know a lot more stories like that, and I could go into detail but that would identify the companies.

That's how the class system in Ireland really works. These guys, many don't even bother going to college, why bother. They just look at the jobs paying 70 - 80 grand, go "I'll have that", and a lot of the time they'll get it. They make excellent manijars.. (that was sarcasm)



End of the class rant.....can we get back to the five year plan

zielarz

Lbeard wrote: »

So we shouldn't let children go to school unless they've worked a few years and paid taxes

Fair and simple.

Simple indeed.

I thought that parents pay for schools through taxes.

Markcheese

Does the 5 year plan involve making the masses make their own shovels,then drain the Shannon, feeding themselves with the crops that will be grown on these soon fertile plans, as an aside their corpses will fertilise the crops, and with the all the old, sick and unruly dying in the ditches, the hospitals will be empty...!! Viva la revaloution