The Hobbit: The Desolation of Smaug

expectationlost · 06-01-2014 5:45am

Bullseye1 wrote: »

I really don't think these movies will age well over time. The seriously heavy cgi is already looking dated on the LoTR movies. How I do wish they used more physical effects.

yeah I watch LOTR and gollumn had a cgi paleness across him, although the form still held up

expectationlost · 06-01-2014 5:47am

yeah after booking to see it non hdr 3d, it was easier on brothers eyes, and i didn't miss its cheapening look, but probably did miss the crispness i wonder what the box office is split between all the formats

Zubeneschamali · 06-01-2014 9:36am

Bullseye1 wrote: »

How I do wish they used more physical effects.

I was dipping into the Extended Edition extras on AUJ, and they actually did.

They did huge amounts of goblin prosthetics with remote control heads, articulated skeletons under translucent skin, and other cool stuff.

Then Jackson replaced them all with CGI in post.

SarahBM · 06-01-2014 10:24am

Zubeneschamali wrote: »

I was dipping into the Extended Edition extras on AUJ, and they actually did.

They did huge amounts of goblin prosthetics with remote control heads, articulated skeletons under translucent skin, and other cool stuff.

Then Jackson replaced them all with CGI in post.

Well in fairness from what I can remember, it was only really Azog and the Goblin King who was CGI in AUJ. But in DOS all the Orcs seemed to be CGI which is such a shame, coz Weta are brilliant.

Zubeneschamali · 06-01-2014 10:30am

SarahBM wrote: »

Well in fairness from what I can remember, it was only really Azog and the Goblin King who was CGI in AUJ.

No, all the crowds of goblins were replaced by CGI versions.

krudler · 06-01-2014 11:23am

Zubeneschamali wrote: »

I was dipping into the Extended Edition extras on AUJ, and they actually did.

They did huge amounts of goblin prosthetics with remote control heads, articulated skeletons under translucent skin, and other cool stuff.

Then Jackson replaced them all with CGI in post.

CGI that will age horribly, whereas the prosthetics in the LOTR movies still look great, especially the Uruk-Hai and orcs. It's a pity all that Weta work will never bee seen and instead we get unrealistic floaty physics effects.

When it comes to modern films and CGI there's a line in Jurassic Park that somes up my feelings about it, when Jeff Goldblum says "your scientists were so preoccupied with whether they could they didn't stop to think if they should".

brevity · 06-01-2014 1:40pm

krudler wrote: »

CGI that will age horribly, whereas the prosthetics in the LOTR movies still look great, especially the Uruk-Hai and orcs. It's a pity all that Weta work will never bee seen and instead we get unrealistic floaty physics effects.

When it comes to modern films and CGI there's a line in Jurassic Park that somes up my feelings about it, when Jeff Goldblum says "your scientists were so preoccupied with whether they could they didn't stop to think if they should".

It's funny that you mention Jurassic Park as it's actually aged really well due to the fact that they used CGI combined with animatronics in the movie.

conorhal · 06-01-2014 2:22pm

brevity wrote: »

It's funny that you mention Jurassic Park as it's actually aged really well due to the fact that they used CGI combined with animatronics in the movie.

Perhaps because there is only 15 minutes of onscreen dino-action in the entire movie, only 6 minutes of which were CGI. These days you can get a big summer blockbuster with 6 minutes of CGI in the prologue!

DesperateDan · 06-01-2014 2:34pm

Bullseye1 wrote: »

I really don't think these movies will age well over time. The seriously heavy cgi is already looking dated on the LoTR movies. How I do wish they used more physical effects.

The only CGI in the Lotr that stands out for me today is some of the wargs and the army at Helm's Deep that looks a bit dodgy at times.

I think most of the CGI in Lotr still looks fantastic today - the troll in Moria, the Balrog, Gollum, Minas Tirith, the eagles, Sauron's eye etc.. all look great.

I also believe the CGI in DoS was almost flawless - a marked improvement on the first one. But the Imax/HFR might make it stand out less because it was all so fluid. The orcs (Bolg especially) were very difficult to notice any CG and I would say 75% of them were fake. And don't get me started on how incredible Smaug was

krudler · 06-01-2014 2:47pm

DesperateDan wrote: »

The only CGI in the Lotr that stands out for me today is some of the wargs and the army at Helm's Deep that looks a bit dodgy at times.

I think most of the CGI in Lotr still looks fantastic today - the troll in Moria, the Balrog, Gollum, Minas Tirith, the eagles, Sauron's eye etc.. all look great.

I also believe the CGI in DoS was almost flawless - a marked improvement on the first one. But the Imax/HFR might make it stand out less because it was all so fluid. The orcs (Bolg especially) were very difficult to notice any CG and I would say 75% of them were fake. And don't get me started on how incredible Smaug was

The shot I couldn't believe was all CGI in LOTR is in Fellowship, there's an overhead shot of them running across the bridge in Moria and the camera moves with them until Gandalf and the Balrog come into view, and it's ALL cgi.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O_Tbi6qLob4

48 secs into that clip, I figured it was just actors running on a greenscreen but they're all CGI models.

Mickeroo · 06-01-2014 2:52pm

DesperateDan wrote: »

The only CGI in the Lotr that stands out for me today is some of the wargs and the army at Helm's Deep that looks a bit dodgy at times.

I think most of the CGI in Lotr still looks fantastic today - the troll in Moria, the Balrog, Gollum, Minas Tirith, the eagles, Sauron's eye etc.. all look great.

I also believe the CGI in DoS was almost flawless - a marked improvement on the first one. But the Imax/HFR might make it stand out less because it was all so fluid. The orcs (Bolg especially) were very difficult to notice any CG and I would say 75% of them were fake. And don't get me started on how incredible Smaug was

Yeah I thought the majoity of the CG in DoS was very well done to be fair, bar a few little bits here and there.

krudler · 06-01-2014 2:59pm

Mickeroo wrote: »

Yeah I thought the majoity of the CG in DoS was very well done to be fair, bar a few little bits here and there.

Less bad CGI and more bad compositing really, there's a few shots in the barrel chase that looked totally unfinished and had some awful green screen work, I hate how fake so much of the Hobbit movies look, it's a nice relief when they're on an actual set with real lighting and something tangible around them.

Guy:Incognito · 06-01-2014 5:12pm

SarahBM wrote: »

But were they ever meant to pop out of the screen at ya, or give ya a headache cos stuff is just moving too fast and all over the place? Quality not quantity, as the saying goes. Id rather have a normal looking 2D movie that a HFR iMax thingy, or what ever it is. too many frames/second = bad IMO.
.

When were they never "meant" to be in 3d? If we're going that route they shouldn't be in colour either. Everything should have remained as it was in cinemas a hundred years ago.

Dermighty · 06-01-2014 5:19pm

If you want to see CGI that will look good in 10 years watch Elysium.

zx complex · 06-01-2014 7:02pm

krudler wrote: »

Less bad CGI and more bad compositing really, there's a few shots in the barrel chase that looked totally unfinished and had some awful green screen work, I hate how fake so much of the Hobbit movies look, it's a nice relief when they're on an actual set with real lighting and something tangible around them.

Totally agree, when I first saw the trailer the effects looked unfinished in the barrel scene and I thought it would be corrected by the actual release date.
I was annoyed to see that this scene had not been touched up at all so my hope now is it is done for the Blu-Ray release.

Zubeneschamali · 06-01-2014 8:09pm

zx complex wrote: »

Totally agree, when I first saw the trailer the effects looked unfinished in the barrel scene and I thought it would be corrected by the actual release date. I was annoyed to see that this scene had not been touched up at all

Did you see it in HFR? The 24 fps 3D version of AUJ had terrible effects (they are better on the Blu Ray). I saw Hobbit 2: Back in the Hobbit in HFR, much better.

krudler · 06-01-2014 8:19pm

Zubeneschamali wrote: »

Did you see it in HFR? The 24 fps 3D version of AUJ had terrible effects (they are better on the Blu Ray). I saw Hobbit 2: Back in the Hobbit in HFR, much better.

I lol'ed :pac:

david75 · 07-01-2014 10:09am

Irish94 wrote: »

Has anyone seen the extended version of AUJ? What is it like?

I think it's only an extra 11 minutes but I actuall think it added an awful lot to the story. Especially the overheard chat elrond and gandalf have about Thorin.

krudler · 07-01-2014 10:38am

david75 wrote: »

I think it's only an extra 11 minutes but I actuall think it added an awful lot to the story. Especially the overheard chat elrond and gandalf have about Thorin.

That was a good scene alright, it's something that should have been left in as it adds to Thorin's character and motivations, that gets cut but we get Radagast giving CPR to a hedgehog..

DesperateDan · 07-01-2014 12:00pm

krudler wrote: »

That was a good scene alright, it's something that should have been left in as it adds to Thorin's character and motivations, that gets cut but we get Radagast giving CPR to a hedgehog..

That hedgehog was probably more expensive

The one cg bit that did catch me off guard though was

the melted gold at the end - far too shiny buttery smooth in HFR

I'm sure it was super physically accurate but looked...odd.

Although saying that the

very next sequence where Smaug flies off and shakes it all off of him

looked incredible

david75 · 07-01-2014 12:06pm

Have to disagree. It look like something off an old Amiga.
The gold bit in its entirety was ridiculous

krudler · 07-01-2014 12:58pm

DesperateDan wrote: »

That hedgehog was probably more expensive

The one cg bit that did catch me off guard though was
the melted gold at the end - far too shiny buttery smooth in HFR
I'm sure it was super physically accurate but looked...odd.

Although saying that the
very next sequence where Smaug flies off and shakes it all off of him
looked incredible

That last part did look great alright, I couldn't fault Smaug at all he looked amazing, properly weighty and a part of the environment.

david75 · 09-01-2014 3:51am

This got nominated for a BAFTA for hair/make up. Colour me ****ed, it's all CGI!! All of it!

WolfForager · 09-01-2014 9:03am

david75 wrote: »

This got nominated for a BAFTA for hair/make up. Colour me ****ed, it's all CGI!! All of it!

Eh no.

SarahBM · 09-01-2014 3:53pm

Going again on Sunday with a friend of mine who hasn't seen it. Perhaps a second viewing might help me form a better or worse opinion than before. I take on board all the problems noted here, so I might have a different view of it next time round.

david75 · 09-01-2014 10:47pm

It's worse on the second viewing. Believe me.

The only truly funny moment in this film. Legolas looking at a young Gimli

'And what is this horrid creature? A goblin mutant?'

Zubeneschamali · 10-01-2014 1:47am

david75 wrote: »

It's worse on the second viewing. Believe me.

Well no, I don't. I went in with my expectations on the floor, and it was better than that, it was a bit of fun.

More importantly, what about a subtitle for the final movie?

Kicking the Hobbit is tempting, but not really very relevant.

Hard Hobbit to Break?
Force of Hobbit?

FunLover18 · 10-01-2014 9:11pm

I haven't read through all 30 pages and I'm not going to (can you blame me) so I'm sure this topic has been covered but I physically cringed any time the Kili/Thranuil "romance" was even hinted at. It just felt so wrong (within the story) and completely needless.

The CGI in both films so far has been massively distracting, especially the orcs. Why use cgi when prosthetics worked so well in LotR. It might have been mentioned but there's an image online of the Bolg they were going to use (a man in a costume) before they decided to cg him out.

Zubeneschamali · 10-01-2014 10:18pm

FunLover18 wrote: »

there's an image online of the Bolg they were going to use (a man in a costume) before they decided to cg him out.

i mentioned earlier, they had the stunties in really cool goblin prosthetics with remote control faces, the works, and then afterwards, replaced them all with CGI.

I'll bet Bolg did his scenes in that costume, and then was replaced.

FunLover18 · 10-01-2014 11:33pm

Zubeneschamali wrote: »

i mentioned earlier, they had the stunties in really cool goblin prosthetics with remote control faces, the works, and then afterwards, replaced them all with CGI.

I'll bet Bolg did his scenes in that costume, and then was replaced.

Such a shame, because the fight between Legolas and Bolg was great but it had nothing on Aragorn versus the Uruk-Hai. I'd love to have seen a version with a stuntman in costume

The Hobbit: The Desolation of Smaug

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