CAI Elevation vs ACCA

smcgiff

You're an accounting technician, so you'd need 4 years experience to become an ACA member.

Timos

God that's a lot worse than I thought, so not only do I have to pass all exams on my own (as I don't have a training contract) but then I have to take a trainee position for 4years on minimum wage based on listings on Irishjobs website anyway. That's a disgrace!

smcgiff

Timos wrote: »

God that's a lot worse than I thought, so not only do I have to pass all exams on my own (as I don't have a training contract) but then I have to take a trainee position for 4years on minimum wage based on listings on Irishjobs website anyway. That's a disgrace!

It's not quick for sure. That's why it's best to get a job as a trainee as soon as possible, preferably while taking the exams.

Timos

Jeez that's such a let down, I thought the one upside of not getting a training contract was that i could avoid the 3/4 years of minimum wage but no such luck when these trainee jobs pay minimum wage as well.

Timos

I have a non acounting degree so that cuts the experience to 3.5yrs and if I pass all exams in 3yrs with one year for repeats is cutting it too close to the 8yrs. I'll take your advice smcgiff and start trainee job after 2yrs of exams.
There's a lot to think about including CAI vs ACCA

smcgiff

That helps - ACCA would require 6 months less experience, but I wouldn't let that be a deciding factor. Good luck.

jjjd

Timos wrote: »

I have a non acounting degree so that cuts the experience to 3.5yrs and if I pass all exams in 3yrs with one year for repeats is cutting it too close to the 8yrs. I'll take your advice smcgiff and start trainee job after 2yrs of exams.
There's a lot to think about including CAI vs ACCA

If you already had a degree, why did you do the Accounting Technicians course? Why did you not go straight into CAI/ACCA?

VONSHIRACH

I trained in a small audit firm. There was a mix of ACA and ACCA students. We did the same work. I found it odd that the chartered students could bring books and notes into their exams and refer to them during the exams. I passed my ACCA exams without this privilege.

Timos

Needed a relatively quick career change which was low risk and would give me opportunity for progression from a more stable base and give me a feel for the new career instead of diving straight in at the deep end

Timos

Thanks smcgiff

JAKE11

Timos wrote: »

Jeez that's such a let down, I thought the one upside of not getting a training contract was that i could avoid the 3/4 years of minimum wage but no such luck when these trainee jobs pay minimum wage as well.

There should be no need to take a low paid trainee position after you complete exams, and besides employers may not look on you favourably as they may wonder why you did not get suitable experience earlier. You really need to talk to someone in CAI about how relevant work experience is clocked up, as it is more flexible than you seem to think. I would say that you should start thinking like a trainee as soon as you start your studies. By this I mean that you should be looking to get better experience in your current job as you pass the exams and after a few exams are passed you should be able to secure a position as assistant accountant. Then look to get good experience so that you can secure a position doing accountant duties (this should be possible when an employer sees that you have most of your exams and appropriate experience). In this way work experience and exams should run in tandem. It will take more effort on your part though as you are not in a training contract and you may need to put in more effort with your employer so that they understand your goals and if they don't help you with this then you may even have to move employment to get the experience you need.

Timos

Thanks JAKE11, that's really good advice, its given me a different perspective on it.

Prettyblack

Yes Timos, the idea with ACA is that you get your experience at the same time as getting your exams done. The lectures are mostly at the weekends and they are all online as well so you don't even have to get to lectures in the evening, that sort of thing. Most employers who train accountants know the score and are supportive.

I wouldn't rule out training in industry though - that's where I am doing Elevation and its great, I get a (decent enough) salary, fees paid, time off for exams, and a mentor - and support from CAI with my experience record and so on.

Most students take 3 - 4 years to qualify but come on - think about what you are getting here (whether its ACCA or ACA). A professional qualification that help you command better salaries, move to higher positions, something you'll have and be associated with for the rest of your career - 4 years in that case isn't that many, when you look at what you are doing.

Timos CAI have a list of employers who take on trainees - contact details and all - perhaps this would help you? As an ATI with a degree, you would be quite employable I would have thought. If you wanted to look beyond the Big 4 (which I think you should).

thefa

Timos wrote: »

thefa
I had completely misunderstood the process.
So to become a chartered accountant via the Elevation programme requires exams and a training/experience period.
Assuming I pass all my exams, how many years experience do I need as a trainee accountant to achieve full chartered qualification?

Either the CAI or ACCA require the passing of exams and relevant experience (& records of it). These can be achieved at the same time or within a specified time frame(up to FAEs for Elevation from my understanding). The majority of people are in relevant jobs by the time they get to their final exams and many before that stage but to make it clear, I wasn't suggesting that there's a compulsory exam period followed by an experience period.

What exemptions have you from this ATI course?

Timos

I will be exempt from 3 of the 5 CAP1 (Financial Accounting, Taxation & Law)

I would be expecting to get work as a technician in industry and didnt think they would be any bit helpful in my gaining experience in relation to my Elevation or ACCA but you've changed my mind on that

Timos

In ACCA I am only exempt from FFA Financial Accounting & FMA Management Accounting.
I could have been exempt from FAB Accountant in businesses if I did the Accounting Technician business module but I took an exemption instead due to previous study which unfortunately does not give me an exemption in this module going forward with ACCA.

thefa

Right so with the ACCA you will be exempt from F2 and F3. F1 is computer based and can be done at any time of the year I believe so with that would leave you 11 to complete from 14. You can sit from 1 to 4 exams at each of the June and December sittings so as mentioned before, it would depend on what pace you want to complete the exams.

I had a lot more exemptions due to my degree and since I was working in industry I chose to do two at a time and have found it manageable along with my work and other commitments. Only one of these was a F level paper so I imagine I could have managed more of the F levels at the same time if I was starting from scratch. It will really come down to the how quick you want do them, how comfortable you are with the topics, your capability and how much time you will be able to spend studying.

Timos

Thanks "thefa" and "Prettyblack" for your posts

"thefa" - Yes there are a lot of variables in determining how long it will take. An extra thing to throw in there is how helpful my employer(s) will be.
So you did 4 per year (2 in June and 2 in December)?

thefa

Yes. Was getting 5 days study leave before each of the June and December sessions.

Timos

4 per year sounds like a lot, I'm thinking if I get a good employer I might go CAI but if employer is not so helpful and i can't get suitable work elsewhere then ill probably pick ACCA because of the longer time frame.
Well, its one reason for me to choose one over the other.

Jim2007

Timos wrote: »

Regarding employment prosects i always thought that CAI was more geared towards practice so im glad to hear that 65% work in industry.

Many of us don't even work in accounting! From my 'year' at a certain big 4 firm in the late 1980s not one remains in accounting - many started their own business, but not accounting related, more went into areas such as marketing, HR, oil exploration and so on, one went sheep farming in Donegal, one took up Irish music and is a professional with a band in mainland Europe... and I've spent most of the last 20 years doing technical writing and developing simulation software on a freelance bases... I don't even own s suit!

Jim2007

smcgiff wrote: »

BTW, if you ever want to go teaching in secondary school then ACCA or CPA for that matter would be the better option!

What a load of tosh this thread has become! After a couple of years of work experience and they are all the same from a practical point of view. If however I was intending to move to the States then I would go with ACA because it is the shortest route to the State exams.... Even ICAEW & CA takes longer.

Timos

Jim2007
Thanks for your take on it, yes I am aware that CAI has very good mutual recognition agreements with England, Wales, Scotland, Australia, New Zealand, South Africa, Canada, Hong Kong and Zimbabwe.
And yes I am understanding now that the decision is not really which is better but which suits my needs best
I don't know what your point is about about your big 4 friends not remaining in accounting as that statistic was misquoted by me and was already corrected by someone and was concerned with the ratio of ACCA vs CAI in different industries not how many graduates go on to work in industry. Anyway the same can be said for my degree background, about 70% are now working in different areas for different reasons and i am interested in accounting now.

smcgiff

Jim2007 wrote: »

What a load of tosh this thread has become! After a couple of years of work experience and they are all the same from a practical point of view. If however I was intending to move to the States then I would go with ACA because it is the shortest route to the State exams.... Even ICAEW & CA takes longer.

Eh, what?


And have you an issue with that section you quoted? As you say not everyone wants to be an accountant. If you take CAI you can'tteach economics in secondary schools, with ACCA or CPA you can.

Prettyblack

smcgiff wrote: »

Eh, what?


And have you an issue with that section you quoted? As you say not everyone wants to be an accountant. If you take CAI you can'tteach economics in secondary schools, with ACCA or CPA you can.

Maybe he's referring that most people who do accountancy qualifcations don't plan on becoming secondary school teachers... ;-)

Also he's got a point about the US things, given the link that the CAI / AICPA have.

Jim2007

smcgiff wrote: »

Eh, what?


And have you an issue with that section you quoted? As you say not everyone wants to be an accountant. If you take CAI you can'tteach economics in secondary schools, with ACCA or CPA you can.

Well first of all I doubt very much that there are many people who start out in accounting wanting to teach in a secondary school and secondly you'd need a bit more than an accounting qualification to do so....

The point about choosing CAI if you were thinking of going to the States is useful because most people will want to use their professional training to earn a living. And the shorter the step local recognition of your qualification the better...

smcgiff

Jim2007 wrote: »

Well first of all I doubt very much that there are many people who start out in accounting wanting to teach in a secondary school and secondly you'd need a bit more than an accounting qualification to do so....

The point about choosing CAI if you were thinking of going to the States is useful because most people will want to use their professional training to earn a living. And the shorter the step local recognition of your qualification the better...

Hang on, you're the one that mentioned that many qualifieds don't work in accounting. School teaching at secondary is very much an alternative. What's wrong with it? What you need is the secondary H Dip. But you can qualify for the H Hip and teach Business Studies, Accounting and Economics if ACCA or CPA. Only the first two with CAI.

Be careful about throwing around generalities - just because it's not for you.

Re working in the US. Correct, but don't come on here claiming tosh and then doing the exact same thing yourself.