Cars that have a timing chain instead of a timing belt.

Mycroft H

Mercedes W201.

bazz26

Toyotafanboi wrote: »

all the vvti toyotas have a chain

Nope. The first generation of Altezza/IS200 VVTi engines were belt driven.

colm_mcm

bazz26 wrote: »

Nope. The first generation of Altezza/IS200 VVTi engines were belt driven.

May as well add the likes of the Toyota Harrier etc to that list so

Chris_Heilong

bazz26 wrote: »

Nope. The first generation of Altezza/IS200 VVTi engines were belt driven.

I think the Chaser VVTi 1JZ-GTE engine was also belt and not chain.

reggaeman

My Astra 1,4 2005 has a chain timing belt. I didn't know that till I bought it. I was told its best to change the belt every 4 years and it could cost around €400. So im glad i have the chain one as they dont need changing.

GvidoR

Unlisted so far...

Lada's had timing chains. Like, Lada / VAZ 2101 for example.

Henry Ford III

What are the relative advantages and disadvantages of belt vs. chain, and non interference vs. interference?

Anjobe

Henry Ford III wrote: »

What are the relative advantages and disadvantages of belt vs. chain, and non interference vs. interference?

Chain should last the lifetime of the engine whereas a belt will require regular (ideally not too frequent) changes!

When a timing belt fails the valves remain open while the engine runs. In an interference type engine the pistons will hit the open valves and bend them or, even worse, break a piece of the valve into the cylinder. In a non-interference engine the valves open into a space where they are not hit by the pistons, so cannot be damaged. Most engines are interference type as this allows a higher compression ratio.

Henry Ford III

Interesting.

So why aren't all engines chain and non interference?

MugMugs

Henry Ford III wrote: »

Interesting.

So why aren't all engines chain and non interference?

How else can dealers land 500 to 700 on top of the occasional service?

Henry Ford III

MugMugs wrote: »

How else can dealers land 500 to 700 on top of the occasional service?

I doubt that's in the manufacturers minds when finalising an engine design.

Belts I assume are cheaper, and quieter in operation.

Anjobe

Belts are just cheaper.

Non-interference engine means the piston cant move into the space at the top of the cylinder in which the valves move, which puts a limit on the compression ratio - lower compression ration means lower thermal efficiency (i.e. higher fuel consumption).

Henry Ford III

Ford's new 1.0T engine has an engine oil lubricated belt, that lasts the lifetime of the engine.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3t908YJRebw

wonski

Henry Ford III wrote: »

Ford's new 1.0T engine has an engine oil lubricated belt, that lasts the lifetime of the engine.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3t908YJRebw

Time will tell if it lasts, and what will be the lifetime actually.

MugMugs

Henry Ford III wrote: »

I doubt that's in the manufacturers minds when finalising an engine design.

Belts I assume are cheaper, and quieter in operation.

So difficult to get to bulbs are just coincidence too? Belts are cheaper and have a guaranteed revenue stream during the life of the motor. The facts are quite apparent in that regard.

Henry Ford III

MugMugs wrote: »

So difficult to get to bulbs are just coincidence too? Belts are cheaper and have a guaranteed revenue stream during the life of the motor. The facts are quite apparent in that regard.

Arguable really. Might be more poor design in the case of the bulbs?

Remember motor manufacturers don't actually make timing belts nor replace them.

corkgsxr

Henry Ford III wrote: »

Ford's new 1.0T engine has an engine oil lubricated belt, that lasts the lifetime of the engine.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3t908YJRebw

Peugeot/citroen have a turbo thats ment to last the lifetime of the engine.

O wait....

Henry Ford III

corkgsxr wrote: »

Peugeot/citroen have a turbo thats ment to last the lifetime of the engine.

O wait....

Cynic.

p.s. This isn't a turbo.

alias no.9

Henry Ford III wrote: »

Interesting.

So why aren't all engines chain and non interference?

4 valves per cylinder usually necessitates 'interference' to allow sufficient valve opening without compromising compression ratio because the valves need to be pushed deeper into the cylinder than 2 valves per cylinder, which accounts for most non-interference engines.

Timing belts are ideal for SOHC 8v engines as long as there's the space to access them for replacement.

Zubeneschamali

MugMugs wrote: »

So difficult to get to bulbs are just coincidence too?

There are a barrel of regulations now about front impacts, crumple zones, pedestrian safety, drive-by noise. Add in the need for aerodynamics, style, and keeping costs of components and time to assemble as low as possible...

The ease for the driver of changing a bulb is way down the list of design constraints. They certainly don't throw in an extra constraint of "make it hard to change the bulbs while you're at it, to make a few bob for our dealer network".

MugMugs

Henry Ford III wrote: »

Remember motor manufacturers don't actually make timing belts nor replace them.

Granted but their "approved repairer network" whom the manufacturer no doubt encourage customers to utilise certainly know how to charge in the replacement of belts. Is it totally necessary to make it that an engine has to be dropped to change a belt? Probably not.

fryup

alias no.9 wrote: »

4 valves per cylinder usually necessitates 'interference' to allow sufficient valve opening without compromising compression ratio because the valves need to be pushed deeper into the cylinder than 2 valves per cylinder, which accounts for most non-interference engines.

wha