Cars that have a timing chain instead of a timing belt.

BUBBLE WRAP

I'm looking for a list of all the cars (Make/Model) which use a timing chain instead of a timing belt. I had a good google, but nothing appeared worth talking about.

The only one I know is a Yaris.

Any help is very much appreciated, Thanks.

Ded_Zebra

What's the particular reason you want to know?

Technoprisoner

you could be here all night listing them

BUBBLE WRAP

Ded_Zebra wrote: »

What's the particular reason you want to know?

No real reason tbh, I was just thinking about timing chains today and I just was curious to know what other cars have a timing chain.

mickdw

BUBBLE WRAP wrote: »

I'm looking for a list of all the cars (Make/Model) which use a timing chain instead of a timing belt. I had a good google, but nothing appeared worth talking about.

The only one I know is a Yaris.

Any help is very much appreciated, Thanks.

There are lots. Some are as reliable as intended while others need renewal at significant cost.

MuppetCheck

Almeras/BMW N47s being the most notable in recent years as failures.

colm_mcm

http://www.honestjohn.co.uk/faq/chain-cam/

Mister Jingles

All mk3 Mondeo's ? That I would have never assumed

BUBBLE WRAP

That's perfect Colm exactly what I was looking for, thanks a million.

Thanks to everyone else also.

amber69

MuppetCheck wrote: »

Almeras/BMW N47s being the most notable in recent years as failures.

Had a 04 almera changed it at 50 k and it went again at 84k

bmstuff

colm_mcm wrote: »

http://www.honestjohn.co.uk/faq/chain-cam/

Who would have thought someone would ever come up with such list lol...

techdiver

Alfa Romeo Brera

166man

JTS engined Alfa's would all be timing chain AFAIK.

riggerman

Toyota corolla 00 upwards have chain

Toyotafanboi

all the vvti toyotas have a chain

MadMardegan

When should chains be changed?

Matt Simis

MadMardegan wrote: »

When should chains be changed?

Chains typically dont get changed, they get the timing readjusted periodically as the chains stretch (over 100k miles). They might need the chain tensioner changed after 200k miles.

JohnBoy26

amber69 wrote: »

Had a 04 almera changed it at 50 k and it went again at 84k

The replacement chain must not of been correctly fitted or the oil wasn't chained frequently for it to go again after just 34k.

JohnBoy26

BUBBLE WRAP wrote: »

I'm looking for a list of all the cars (Make/Model) which use a timing chain instead of a timing belt. I had a good google, but nothing appeared worth talking about.

The only one I know is a Yaris.

Any help is very much appreciated, Thanks.

91-96 Nissan Sunny:p, great cars too so they were.:) Unlike the disastrous Almera from a decade later.

tossy

Providing it's a reliable set up all cars should have chains,My Bora had a chain and it gives you a certain peace of mind.

Plug

Some cars a belt and a chain, others have a belt in oil.

booksale

Opel Corsa uses chain as well. It's not listed on the list.

mondeoman2

booksale wrote: »

Opel Corsa uses chain as well. It's not listed on the list.

It listed under Vauxhall

dingding

Lexus rx 400h is listed as having a chain but it has a belt.

I think that list may not be totally reliability

colm_mcm

dingding wrote: »

I think that list may not be totally reliability

Yep! For the purposes of this thread it'll do though!

mattser

Is the Merc E200K chain a bit dodgy ? I think someone told me it was.

jozi

BMW's M42 engine as fitted to the 1989 318iS has a chain, unlike the list stating all BMW's after 1993 - I guess some slipped under the radar.

ofcork

mattser wrote: »

Is the Merc E200K chain a bit dodgy ? I think someone told me it was.

Ive heard of them snapping before as low as 60k miles iirc.

Nforce

Somewhat related to this thread...is there a list of modern non interference engines available?

bigroad

Opel 2.0 and 2.2 dti have chains that also includes saab 93/95 2.2 dti.

scamalert

had Toyota corolla 01 hatch 1.4 vvti best pulling engine for that size of motor,and never had issues over 160k miles on the clock,serviced once every year or two,just oil change basically, some car it has been but its pitty to see that toyotas went down hill as reading from topic where 1.6 yaris is drinking oil in liters,or most celicas burning it as well.So yes all vvti engines have chains,i think rotary engines have them as well not sure now.
as for replacement good chain should last a life time,agree that it can loosen in time,but its rare events where chains snap or need to be replaced.just from my limited experience with toyotas,but reading about golfs with tfsi engines seems there are flaws in them engines and costly as well.

Mycroft H

Mercedes W201.

bazz26

Toyotafanboi wrote: »

all the vvti toyotas have a chain

Nope. The first generation of Altezza/IS200 VVTi engines were belt driven.

colm_mcm

bazz26 wrote: »

Nope. The first generation of Altezza/IS200 VVTi engines were belt driven.

May as well add the likes of the Toyota Harrier etc to that list so

Chris_Heilong

bazz26 wrote: »

Nope. The first generation of Altezza/IS200 VVTi engines were belt driven.

I think the Chaser VVTi 1JZ-GTE engine was also belt and not chain.

reggaeman

My Astra 1,4 2005 has a chain timing belt. I didn't know that till I bought it. I was told its best to change the belt every 4 years and it could cost around €400. So im glad i have the chain one as they dont need changing.

GvidoR

Unlisted so far...

Lada's had timing chains. Like, Lada / VAZ 2101 for example.

Henry Ford III

What are the relative advantages and disadvantages of belt vs. chain, and non interference vs. interference?

Anjobe

Henry Ford III wrote: »

What are the relative advantages and disadvantages of belt vs. chain, and non interference vs. interference?

Chain should last the lifetime of the engine whereas a belt will require regular (ideally not too frequent) changes!

When a timing belt fails the valves remain open while the engine runs. In an interference type engine the pistons will hit the open valves and bend them or, even worse, break a piece of the valve into the cylinder. In a non-interference engine the valves open into a space where they are not hit by the pistons, so cannot be damaged. Most engines are interference type as this allows a higher compression ratio.

Henry Ford III

Interesting.

So why aren't all engines chain and non interference?

MugMugs

Henry Ford III wrote: »

Interesting.

So why aren't all engines chain and non interference?

How else can dealers land 500 to 700 on top of the occasional service?

Henry Ford III

MugMugs wrote: »

How else can dealers land 500 to 700 on top of the occasional service?

I doubt that's in the manufacturers minds when finalising an engine design.

Belts I assume are cheaper, and quieter in operation.

Anjobe

Belts are just cheaper.

Non-interference engine means the piston cant move into the space at the top of the cylinder in which the valves move, which puts a limit on the compression ratio - lower compression ration means lower thermal efficiency (i.e. higher fuel consumption).

Henry Ford III

Ford's new 1.0T engine has an engine oil lubricated belt, that lasts the lifetime of the engine.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3t908YJRebw

wonski

Henry Ford III wrote: »

Ford's new 1.0T engine has an engine oil lubricated belt, that lasts the lifetime of the engine.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3t908YJRebw

Time will tell if it lasts, and what will be the lifetime actually.

MugMugs

Henry Ford III wrote: »

I doubt that's in the manufacturers minds when finalising an engine design.

Belts I assume are cheaper, and quieter in operation.

So difficult to get to bulbs are just coincidence too? Belts are cheaper and have a guaranteed revenue stream during the life of the motor. The facts are quite apparent in that regard.

Henry Ford III

MugMugs wrote: »

So difficult to get to bulbs are just coincidence too? Belts are cheaper and have a guaranteed revenue stream during the life of the motor. The facts are quite apparent in that regard.

Arguable really. Might be more poor design in the case of the bulbs?

Remember motor manufacturers don't actually make timing belts nor replace them.

corkgsxr

Henry Ford III wrote: »

Ford's new 1.0T engine has an engine oil lubricated belt, that lasts the lifetime of the engine.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3t908YJRebw

Peugeot/citroen have a turbo thats ment to last the lifetime of the engine.

O wait....

Henry Ford III

corkgsxr wrote: »

Peugeot/citroen have a turbo thats ment to last the lifetime of the engine.

O wait....

Cynic.

p.s. This isn't a turbo.

alias no.9

Henry Ford III wrote: »

Interesting.

So why aren't all engines chain and non interference?

4 valves per cylinder usually necessitates 'interference' to allow sufficient valve opening without compromising compression ratio because the valves need to be pushed deeper into the cylinder than 2 valves per cylinder, which accounts for most non-interference engines.

Timing belts are ideal for SOHC 8v engines as long as there's the space to access them for replacement.

Zubeneschamali

MugMugs wrote: »

So difficult to get to bulbs are just coincidence too?

There are a barrel of regulations now about front impacts, crumple zones, pedestrian safety, drive-by noise. Add in the need for aerodynamics, style, and keeping costs of components and time to assemble as low as possible...

The ease for the driver of changing a bulb is way down the list of design constraints. They certainly don't throw in an extra constraint of "make it hard to change the bulbs while you're at it, to make a few bob for our dealer network".