Ruairi O'Bradaigh is dead.

Iwasfrozen

handlemaster wrote: »

I read that after I didnt know or care to know for that manner that there was two IRA/ shinners groups.

RSF are pretty much a non issue, they split over the abstentionist principal of not sitting in the Dáil or Stormont.

Richard

Iwasfrozen wrote: »

RSF are pretty much a non issue, they split over the abstentionist principal of not sitting in the Dáil or Stormont.

They also don't recognise the authority of either legislature, considering them both "British puppets".

They haven't been linked to terrorism since the split AFAIK, however.

Iwasfrozen

Richard wrote: »

They also don't recognise the authority of either legislature, considering them both "British puppets".

They haven't been linked to terrorism since the split AFAIK, however.

Aren't they linked to the CIRA? They also refused to drop the Eire nua policy of pre 1982.

SoulandForm

Iwasfrozen wrote: »

Aren't they linked to the CIRA? They also refused to drop the Eire nua policy of pre 1982.

They would say they are different organizations but that they share the same politics- however they consider the Continuity Army Council as being the legitimate successor to the First Dail and the suppressed Republic. They do have a strain of miltaristic nihilism however that said they have a refreshing internationalism and also a deep concern for other celtic nations and their struggles against colonialism whether French or English. Gerry Adams once called Eire Nua a sop to Unionism and look where he is now.

Iwasfrozen

SoulandForm wrote: »

They would say they are different organizations but that they share the same politics- however they consider the Continuity Army Council as being the legitimate successor to the First Dail and the suppressed Republic. They do have a strain of miltaristic nihilism however that said they have a refreshing internationalism and also a deep concern for other celtic nations and their struggles against colonialism whether French or English. Gerry Adams once called Eire Nua a sop to Unionism and look where he is now.

I thought they were the political army of the CIRA? Eire nua was opposed by Northern nationalists because they feared it contribute to continued unionist dominance in Ulster.

SoulandForm

Iwasfrozen wrote: »

I thought they were the political army of the CIRA? Eire nua was opposed by Northern nationalists because they feared it contribute to continued unionist dominance in Ulster.

They would say that they are part of the same movement- however the connection between and the CIRA is nothing like the old connection between PSF and the PIRA.

Eire Nua in the 70s or even the 80s would have seen an equal balance of power between the two "Tribes" of Ulster. Neither would have dominated. Its also worthy of note that Gerry Adams and his clique castigated the old leadership for the ceasefire in the mid-70s and swore on the debate about absentionism that the armed struggle would never, never cease until victory.

Ulster is Irish but at the same time it is its own thing. The real reason I suspect for the opposition to the federal plans of Eire Nua is that it runs against the desire of the southern elite to centralize as much as possible. They are even talking of getting rid of the Senate at this stage.

Im not a member of Republican Sinn Fein- and I have big problems with all militarism but I would agree on a lot of what they say.

Iwasfrozen

SoulandForm wrote: »

They would say that they are part of the same movement- however the connection between and the CIRA is nothing like the old connection between PSF and the PIRA.

Eire Nua in the 70s or even the 80s would have seen an equal balance of power between the two "Tribes" of Ulster. Neither would have dominated. Its also worthy of note that Gerry Adams and his clique castigated the old leadership for the ceasefire in the mid-70s and swore on the debate about absentionism that the armed struggle would never, never cease until victory.

Ulster is Irish but at the same time it is its own thing. The real reason I suspect for the opposition to the federal plans of Eire Nua is that it runs against the desire of the southern elite to centralize as much as possible. They are even talking of getting rid of the Senate at this stage.

Im not a member of Republican Sinn Fein- and I have big problems with all militarism but I would agree on a lot of what they say.

Except the main opposition to Eire nua was from the Northern leadership, McGuinness, Adams etc. while it's biggest supporters were from the south, O Bradaigh, O Conaill, Mac Giolla etc.

Cody Pomeray

Iwasfrozen wrote: »

Eire nua was opposed by Northern nationalists because they feared it contribute to continued unionist dominance in Ulster.

I don't actually believe this at all.

I think everyone was opposed to Eire Nua because it sounds like the naive sort of idea a Transition Year student would come up with. Even the notion of putting the Parliament in Athlone away from the commercial, infrastructural and legal life of such a small country was trite and tokenist.

O Brádaigh was strong on matters of broad principle and vision for the country. He might have been a great President, if he wasn't so naturally contrary. These kind of impractical, yet poetic, ideas illustrate why he wasn't suited to a political office.

mrjoneill

Lemming wrote: »

you think Irish-solution-to-an-Irish-problem Republicanism has some sort of monopoly on saying "good riddance" when someone dies? Get off your cross and on your bike with you.

Round these parts (I live in South Yorkshire these days..... and in fact not far away from some of the ugliest scenes of the Miners strikes) there were celebrations when Thatcher died. Lots of families & former miners with long memories. So it was less a case of "RIP" and very much more a case of "Ding-don the witch is dead", or "Meh" indifference to her. Eulogies were not forthcoming to say the least whether people celebrated or not.

With regards O'Bradaigh, history has not - and will not - be kind to his legacy as has already been said.

To compare Thatcher to O'Bradaigh in the one sentence is plain wrong. Thatcher stood for using the state power to suppress dissent whereas O Bradaigh stood against that. N Ireland is a completely different scenario now to the period that led to the emergence of the PIRA. It was a period of when the Black Watch were let loose on the people of the Falls and the Parachute lose on the people of Ballymurphy and Derry. It was a period where suppression of civil rights was the norm and the heavy hand of the N Ireland administration which had overtones of National Socialism of another period and supported by the British state. It was a statelet that had similarities of Alabama and the “deep south”. It was also a period where torture by the British state was sanctioned by its government. It was a period also that saw the British state engage with its agents in the car-bombing of a friendly country. A car bombing that had at its target mass slaughter of innocent shoppers and workers. It was a period where the state used as its civilian killing arm a sectarian mob against dissent. For me O'Bradaigh is one who stood up to state violence and just like the compromise of the Irish Free State was laid at Kilmichael and Crossbarry the present compromise of the Good Friday Agreement is laid in the actions of the PIRA and Sinn Fein. For the holier than thou rem the former Irish Taoiseach Sean Lemass bore arms at the GPO in 1916in what was at the time commented as an act of sheer bloody-minded destruction and vandalism . And he was also a member of "Apostles" that took part in the “cold blooded” assassination of British agents the Cairo Gang in 1920.


And I do believe the heavy Garda presence at his funeral was wrong. It was not intelligence led policing. And if there was volleys over his coffin so what, it’s all of another era. And I do believe if there was an intention to fire over his coffin it would have being carried out at some stage as does happen. Life has moved on and the N Ireland statelet also has with its ever closer cooperation and linkages with the Republic.
And yes we do need a South African style Peace and Reconciliation commission to investigate the reality into state violence and its fermenting and prolonging that conflict. When it comes to discovery of British state secrets we all have to do is remember the mountain side the Barron Inquiry collided with in its search for the truth.

Lemming

mrjoneill wrote: »

To compare Thatcher to O'Bradaigh in the one sentence is plain wrong. Thatcher stood for using the state power to suppress dissent whereas O Bradaigh stood against that

If you wouldn't mind pointing out where exactly I compared the two, I'm all ears. FYI, I did not compare Thatcher to O'Bradaigh. Someone else tried that one on; I corrected their misinformed complaint.

Richard

Cody Pomeray wrote: »

I don't actually believe this at all.

I think everyone was opposed to Eire Nua because it sounds like the naive sort of idea a Transition Year student would come up with. Even the notion of putting the Parliament in Athlone away from the commercial, infrastructural and legal life of such a small country was trite and tokenist.

O Brádaigh was strong on matters of broad principle and vision for the country. He might have been a great President, if he wasn't so naturally contrary. These kind of impractical, yet poetic, ideas illustrate why he wasn't suited to a political office.

Yes, I seem to remember the capital of Ulster was Dungannon. Now I've nothing against Dungannon, but...

blahfckingblah

handlemaster wrote: »

I read that after I didnt know or care to know for that manner that there was two IRA/ shinners groups.

then why take the time to post about him?

SoulandForm

Mod: Video only post.

Jacques Mesrine

RIP Ruairi O Bradaigh. One of Irelands truest soldiers.

ConorR32

I don't agree with Éire Nua or Saol Nua and I don't believe in military struggle today, but I do respect the right of the Irish working class to defend themselves by use of force. I respect Ruairí Ó Bradaigh as man, a republican and an anti-imperialist but again there are exceptions, I would never be as staunchly traditional as him, I'm much more open to new ideas and a socialist republican myself. I do however, have to say that he is a great loss to republicanism, RSF weren't particularly relevant but ROB was and his brand of unrepentant determination is something all republicans can aspire to. He was "walking history" while he was alive and played his part in so many significant campaigns through his life, from his youth to his old age. RIP Ruairí Ó Bradaigh. Ar dheis go raibh dé a anam uasal. Tiocfaidh ár lá.

spank_inferno

ConorR32 wrote: »

I do respect the right of the Irish working class to defend themselves by use of force.

What does that part quoted mean Conor?

ConorR32

spank_inferno wrote: »

What does that part quoted mean Conor?

That I do not agree with armed struggle today but I would not condemn it as a revolutionary tactic under the right circumstances; vis et vis, time, socio-economic conditions (of the time) and of course in situations where injustice and marginalisation are commonplace. What I am saying is that I believe the people have the right to rebel forcefully, and that although I might not support or agree with it, I would not condemn the principal of armed struggle.

getzls

I respect Ruairí Ó Bradaigh an anti-imperialist.

Why would he have been seen as that? Is this to justify his murder campaign in Northern Ireland?

SoulandForm

getzls wrote: »

I respect Ruairí Ó Bradaigh an anti-imperialist.

Why would he have been seen as that? Is this to justify his murder campaign in Northern Ireland?

His politics went a lot deeper than simple militarism.

Norwesterner

The best Taoiseach we never had.
I admired this man since I was a child.