Ruairi O'Bradaigh is dead.

SoulandForm

I cant believe that there isnt a thread on this already. While he stood by a campaign which saw innocents slaughtered he spent his adult life fighting to remove the root cause of political violence in Ireland. In a world of Bertie Aherns he stood by his belief in the Irish Republic declared in 1916 and would accept no compromise with an order forced upon Ireland down the barrel of an English gun. I pray that his soul enters the Kingdom of Heavens.

If any of his family are reading this my prayers are with you too- and in your sorrow be proud.


http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2013/jun/06/ruairi-obradaigh-irish-republican-dies

Alias G

I presume no thread since he hasn't been particularly relevant in a long long time. Politics is ultimately the art of compromise.

SoulandForm

Alias G wrote: »

I presume no thread since he hasn't been particularly relevant in a long long time. Politics is ultimately the art of compromise.

His politics were not relevant in the 50s and 60s either but than came the last northern insurgency.

spank_inferno

SoulandForm wrote: »

I pray that his soul enters the Kingdom of Heavens.

He may have some questions to answer when he gets there.

SoulandForm

spank_inferno wrote: »

He may have some questions to answer when he gets there.

Indeed and that is why we should pray for him.

He will though have a lot less to answer for than a lot of people in Irish and UK public life.

getzls

Can't say i will mourn over him.

Cody Pomeray

SoulandForm wrote: »

His politics were not relevant in the 50s and 60s either but than came the last northern insurgency.

wtf... sideways cam in 1986?!

In all seriousness, it's unfortunate how his death has gone so unacknowledged.

Like him or loathe him, O Brádaigh was an important historical figure in granting the initial political legitimacy to the Provisional IRA within the Republican movement and was able to articulate an important defence of disruptive activities.

O Brádaigh's counter-current critique of modern Irish political life here in the south, as exemplified in the above video footage, provided a rare challenge to a decommissioned, impotent political class whose Republicanism and whose commitment to the founding principles of Irish independence had been placed in a sleepy abeyance.

To that extent , O Brádaigh had a valuable contribution to play.

However, we should be careful about eulogizing Ruairí O Brádaigh too lavishly.

O Brádaigh's greatest failure was his relentlessness. He refused to challenge his own political outlook, which never wavered. His insistence on following the archaic rules of Republican dogma to their very letter, unable to imagine or concede any better alternative, was almost Papal. Sometimes, there were even glimpses of de Valera.

Consistency is faint praise in a politician, so I won't insult his memory. O Brádaigh's intransigence, whilst initially appearing heroic and defiant - just the kind of man a fledgling militancy needed - later installed him in the cobwebs of the Northern Ireland Museum of Troubles and Other Curiosities. As with all politicians who lack foresight, and sometimes lack the courage to change, history has not been kind to the legacy of Ruairí O Brádaigh.

fryup

SoulandForm wrote: »

I cant believe that there isnt a thread on this already. While he stood by a campaign which saw innocents slaughtered he spent his adult life fighting to remove the root cause of political violence in Ireland. In a world of Bertie Aherns he stood by his belief in the Irish Republic declared in 1916 and would accept no compromise with an order forced upon Ireland down the barrel of an English gun. I pray that his soul enters the Kingdom of Heavens.

you want a man that stood by a campaign which saw innocents slaughtered to get into heaven

ffs:rolleyes:

pablomakaveli

The reason it was mostly ignored is because why would any decent person want to commemrate him? It's people like him the prolonged the Troubles. Forgetting people like him is better for everyone.

And if there was a heaven and hell he'd certainly be residing in the latter

Red About Town

Disturbances at his funeral in Roscommon today.

Cody Pomeray

Eh, riot gear at the graveside... why?

http://www.irishtimes.com/news/politics/disturbances-at-ó-brádaigh-funeral-1.1422032

Over a dozen uniformed gardaí had surrounded the grave before the funeral procession arrived at the cemetery while members of the Emergency Response Unit had walked alongside the funeral procession as it continued from the Sacred Heart church to the graveyard...

...At the cemetery mourners became angry as gardaí surrounded the grave and there were jeers and shouts for respect for the family.
After some jostling officers were pushed back and gardaí in riot gear raised shields and briefly confronted those involved in the melee.

wolfpawnat

Cody Pomeray wrote: »

Eh, riot gear at the graveside... why?

http://www.irishtimes.com/news/politics/disturbances-at-ó-brádaigh-funeral-1.1422032

Because even in death they fear him apparently. It is a disgrace to turn up to a funeral and do that. He was an old man, what trouble was there going to be?

Cody Pomeray

wolfpawnat wrote: »

Because even in death they fear him apparently. It is a disgrace to turn up to a funeral and do that. He was an old man, what trouble was there going to be?

I presume they wanted to look out for a gun salute, or they wanted to monitor the oration. That's understandable to an extent. But that doesn't explain the description given in the Irish Times, presuming it's accurate. Sounds like Gardaí fishing for a fight tbh.

wolfpawnat

Cody Pomeray wrote: »

I presume they wanted to look out for a gun salute, or they wanted to monitor the oration. That's understandable to an extent. But that doesn't explain the description given in the Irish Times, presuming it's accurate. Sounds like Gardaí fishing for a fight tbh.

According to what I have heard and read, they circled the grave and delayed both the walk to the grave from the church and prevented the speeches from taking place for a while. Now I understand that many would not agree with the contents of the speeches (I haven't heard them myself but I can imagine what would have been said) but still, a severe lack of respect for the dead.

mackerski

wolfpawnat wrote: »

a severe lack of respect for the dead.

As opposed to a lack of respect for the living, whose need might be seen to be greater.

wolfpawnat

mackerski wrote: »

As opposed to a lack of respect for the living, whose need might be seen to be greater.

Funny how when a republican dies, they are still spoken about as though they were the whole issue with the 6 counties, as though there was never two sides to the conflict, but when Thatcher bit the dust. "RIP, oh she's dead now, etc!"

Lemming

wolfpawnat wrote: »

but when Thatcher bit the dust. "RIP, oh she's dead now, etc!"

you think Irish-solution-to-an-Irish-problem Republicanism has some sort of monopoly on saying "good riddance" when someone dies? Get off your cross and on your bike with you.

Round these parts (I live in South Yorkshire these days..... and in fact not far away from some of the ugliest scenes of the Miners strikes) there were celebrations when Thatcher died. Lots of families & former miners with long memories. So it was less a case of "RIP" and very much more a case of "Ding-don the witch is dead", or "Meh" indifference to her. Eulogies were not forthcoming to say the least whether people celebrated or not.

With regards O'Bradaigh, history has not - and will not - be kind to his legacy as has already been said.

wolfpawnat

Lemming wrote: »

you think Irish-solution-to-an-Irish-problem Republicanism has some sort of monopoly on saying "good riddance" when someone dies? Get off your cross and on your bike with you.

Round these parts (I live in South Yorkshire these days..... and in fact not far away from some of the ugliest scenes of the Miners strikes) there were celebrations when Thatcher died. Lots of families & former miners with long memories. So it was less a case of "RIP" and very much more a case of "Ding-don the witch is dead", or "Meh" indifference to her. Eulogies were not forthcoming to say the least whether people celebrated or not.

With regards O'Bradaigh, history has not - and will not - be kind to his legacy as has already been said.

You can respect the dead and not agree with their politics.

There was a time there where Paisley was ill and was at risk of dying. I said then that I would not for a second agree with his politics, but I still said I wouldn't like to see him suffer. I feel that way about anyone. I stated I thought Lenihan was a horrific Finance Minister, but still, he was a young man. Going to an old man's funeral and preventing the family getting to the grave to bury someone is a sick act, it doesn't matter who they were or what they did!

mackerski

wolfpawnat wrote: »

Funny how when a republican dies, they are still spoken about as though they were the whole issue with the 6 counties, as though there was never two sides to the conflict, but when Thatcher bit the dust. "RIP, oh she's dead now, etc!"

I can only speak for myself, but I never commented on Thatcher's death. Everyone should be free to express their opinions, right?

wolfpawnat

mackerski wrote: »

I can only speak for myself, but I never commented on Thatcher's death. Everyone should be free to express their opinions, right?

Of course. I never said otherwise But as I said, the Special Branch preventing a funeral taking place smoothly for no good reason other than to annoy people is wrong!

theoneeyedman

From what I heard down here, most of the funeral goers today were aged people, contemporaries of mr o bradaigh and neighbours/families. There was some politicos there and old school 'shinners'. It was obvious the Gardai were determined to have a show of stength at hus funeral rather than have anyone else do it.

They weren't half as brave in Dublin a few months ago at Mr Ryans funeral

wolfpawnat

theoneeyedman wrote: »

From what I heard down here, most of the funeral goers today were aged people, contemporaries of mr o bradaigh and neighbours/families. There was some politicos there and old school 'shinners'. It was obvious the Gardai were determined to have a show of stength at hus funeral rather than have anyone else do it.

They weren't half as brave in Dublin a few months ago at Mr Ryans funeral

You see that's what irking me, huge issue there and nothing was done. An old man and they act worse than scumbags!

endacl

Rory Brady died? Ah well. Life goes on...

Red About Town

endacl wrote: »

Rory Brady died? Ah well. Life goes on...

Why refer to him as Rory Brady and not the Irish version of his name which he called himself?

endacl

Red About Town wrote: »

Why refer to him as Rory Brady and not the Irish version of his name which he called himself?

To demonstrate a lack of respect. For the man and for all he stood for.

Red About Town

Red About Town wrote: »

Why refer to him as Rory Brady and not the Irish version of his name which he called himself?

He was Ruairi in politics but in Roscommon Rory.

Alias G

Utterly abhorrent behaviour on the part of the Gardai. Admittedly, had they stood back and allowed a gun-fire salute, they would merely be taking stick from another quarter, but by the sounds of things, their actions today were awful.

Iwasfrozen

I don't believe in celebrating anyone's death but the removal of his influence in Northern Ireland is indeed to be welcomed. Whatever, I hope he finds peace RIP.

handlemaster

How many people said Whos dead !!! .I never heard of this guy before.

Iwasfrozen

handlemaster wrote: »

How many people said Whos dead !!! .I never heard of this guy before.

Republican SF leader.

handlemaster

Iwasfrozen wrote: »

Republican SF leader.

I read that after I didnt know or care to know for that manner that there was two IRA/ shinners groups.

Iwasfrozen

handlemaster wrote: »

I read that after I didnt know or care to know for that manner that there was two IRA/ shinners groups.

RSF are pretty much a non issue, they split over the abstentionist principal of not sitting in the Dáil or Stormont.

Richard

Iwasfrozen wrote: »

RSF are pretty much a non issue, they split over the abstentionist principal of not sitting in the Dáil or Stormont.

They also don't recognise the authority of either legislature, considering them both "British puppets".

They haven't been linked to terrorism since the split AFAIK, however.

Iwasfrozen

Richard wrote: »

They also don't recognise the authority of either legislature, considering them both "British puppets".

They haven't been linked to terrorism since the split AFAIK, however.

Aren't they linked to the CIRA? They also refused to drop the Eire nua policy of pre 1982.

SoulandForm

Iwasfrozen wrote: »

Aren't they linked to the CIRA? They also refused to drop the Eire nua policy of pre 1982.

They would say they are different organizations but that they share the same politics- however they consider the Continuity Army Council as being the legitimate successor to the First Dail and the suppressed Republic. They do have a strain of miltaristic nihilism however that said they have a refreshing internationalism and also a deep concern for other celtic nations and their struggles against colonialism whether French or English. Gerry Adams once called Eire Nua a sop to Unionism and look where he is now.

Iwasfrozen

SoulandForm wrote: »

They would say they are different organizations but that they share the same politics- however they consider the Continuity Army Council as being the legitimate successor to the First Dail and the suppressed Republic. They do have a strain of miltaristic nihilism however that said they have a refreshing internationalism and also a deep concern for other celtic nations and their struggles against colonialism whether French or English. Gerry Adams once called Eire Nua a sop to Unionism and look where he is now.

I thought they were the political army of the CIRA? Eire nua was opposed by Northern nationalists because they feared it contribute to continued unionist dominance in Ulster.

SoulandForm

Iwasfrozen wrote: »

I thought they were the political army of the CIRA? Eire nua was opposed by Northern nationalists because they feared it contribute to continued unionist dominance in Ulster.

They would say that they are part of the same movement- however the connection between and the CIRA is nothing like the old connection between PSF and the PIRA.

Eire Nua in the 70s or even the 80s would have seen an equal balance of power between the two "Tribes" of Ulster. Neither would have dominated. Its also worthy of note that Gerry Adams and his clique castigated the old leadership for the ceasefire in the mid-70s and swore on the debate about absentionism that the armed struggle would never, never cease until victory.

Ulster is Irish but at the same time it is its own thing. The real reason I suspect for the opposition to the federal plans of Eire Nua is that it runs against the desire of the southern elite to centralize as much as possible. They are even talking of getting rid of the Senate at this stage.

Im not a member of Republican Sinn Fein- and I have big problems with all militarism but I would agree on a lot of what they say.

Iwasfrozen

SoulandForm wrote: »

They would say that they are part of the same movement- however the connection between and the CIRA is nothing like the old connection between PSF and the PIRA.

Eire Nua in the 70s or even the 80s would have seen an equal balance of power between the two "Tribes" of Ulster. Neither would have dominated. Its also worthy of note that Gerry Adams and his clique castigated the old leadership for the ceasefire in the mid-70s and swore on the debate about absentionism that the armed struggle would never, never cease until victory.

Ulster is Irish but at the same time it is its own thing. The real reason I suspect for the opposition to the federal plans of Eire Nua is that it runs against the desire of the southern elite to centralize as much as possible. They are even talking of getting rid of the Senate at this stage.

Im not a member of Republican Sinn Fein- and I have big problems with all militarism but I would agree on a lot of what they say.

Except the main opposition to Eire nua was from the Northern leadership, McGuinness, Adams etc. while it's biggest supporters were from the south, O Bradaigh, O Conaill, Mac Giolla etc.

Cody Pomeray

Iwasfrozen wrote: »

Eire nua was opposed by Northern nationalists because they feared it contribute to continued unionist dominance in Ulster.

I don't actually believe this at all.

I think everyone was opposed to Eire Nua because it sounds like the naive sort of idea a Transition Year student would come up with. Even the notion of putting the Parliament in Athlone away from the commercial, infrastructural and legal life of such a small country was trite and tokenist.

O Brádaigh was strong on matters of broad principle and vision for the country. He might have been a great President, if he wasn't so naturally contrary. These kind of impractical, yet poetic, ideas illustrate why he wasn't suited to a political office.

mrjoneill

Lemming wrote: »

you think Irish-solution-to-an-Irish-problem Republicanism has some sort of monopoly on saying "good riddance" when someone dies? Get off your cross and on your bike with you.

Round these parts (I live in South Yorkshire these days..... and in fact not far away from some of the ugliest scenes of the Miners strikes) there were celebrations when Thatcher died. Lots of families & former miners with long memories. So it was less a case of "RIP" and very much more a case of "Ding-don the witch is dead", or "Meh" indifference to her. Eulogies were not forthcoming to say the least whether people celebrated or not.

With regards O'Bradaigh, history has not - and will not - be kind to his legacy as has already been said.

To compare Thatcher to O'Bradaigh in the one sentence is plain wrong. Thatcher stood for using the state power to suppress dissent whereas O Bradaigh stood against that. N Ireland is a completely different scenario now to the period that led to the emergence of the PIRA. It was a period of when the Black Watch were let loose on the people of the Falls and the Parachute lose on the people of Ballymurphy and Derry. It was a period where suppression of civil rights was the norm and the heavy hand of the N Ireland administration which had overtones of National Socialism of another period and supported by the British state. It was a statelet that had similarities of Alabama and the “deep south”. It was also a period where torture by the British state was sanctioned by its government. It was a period also that saw the British state engage with its agents in the car-bombing of a friendly country. A car bombing that had at its target mass slaughter of innocent shoppers and workers. It was a period where the state used as its civilian killing arm a sectarian mob against dissent. For me O'Bradaigh is one who stood up to state violence and just like the compromise of the Irish Free State was laid at Kilmichael and Crossbarry the present compromise of the Good Friday Agreement is laid in the actions of the PIRA and Sinn Fein. For the holier than thou rem the former Irish Taoiseach Sean Lemass bore arms at the GPO in 1916in what was at the time commented as an act of sheer bloody-minded destruction and vandalism . And he was also a member of "Apostles" that took part in the “cold blooded” assassination of British agents the Cairo Gang in 1920.


And I do believe the heavy Garda presence at his funeral was wrong. It was not intelligence led policing. And if there was volleys over his coffin so what, it’s all of another era. And I do believe if there was an intention to fire over his coffin it would have being carried out at some stage as does happen. Life has moved on and the N Ireland statelet also has with its ever closer cooperation and linkages with the Republic.
And yes we do need a South African style Peace and Reconciliation commission to investigate the reality into state violence and its fermenting and prolonging that conflict. When it comes to discovery of British state secrets we all have to do is remember the mountain side the Barron Inquiry collided with in its search for the truth.

Lemming

mrjoneill wrote: »

To compare Thatcher to O'Bradaigh in the one sentence is plain wrong. Thatcher stood for using the state power to suppress dissent whereas O Bradaigh stood against that

If you wouldn't mind pointing out where exactly I compared the two, I'm all ears. FYI, I did not compare Thatcher to O'Bradaigh. Someone else tried that one on; I corrected their misinformed complaint.

Richard

Cody Pomeray wrote: »

I don't actually believe this at all.

I think everyone was opposed to Eire Nua because it sounds like the naive sort of idea a Transition Year student would come up with. Even the notion of putting the Parliament in Athlone away from the commercial, infrastructural and legal life of such a small country was trite and tokenist.

O Brádaigh was strong on matters of broad principle and vision for the country. He might have been a great President, if he wasn't so naturally contrary. These kind of impractical, yet poetic, ideas illustrate why he wasn't suited to a political office.

Yes, I seem to remember the capital of Ulster was Dungannon. Now I've nothing against Dungannon, but...

blahfckingblah

handlemaster wrote: »

I read that after I didnt know or care to know for that manner that there was two IRA/ shinners groups.

then why take the time to post about him?

SoulandForm

Mod: Video only post.

Jacques Mesrine

RIP Ruairi O Bradaigh. One of Irelands truest soldiers.

ConorR32

I don't agree with Éire Nua or Saol Nua and I don't believe in military struggle today, but I do respect the right of the Irish working class to defend themselves by use of force. I respect Ruairí Ó Bradaigh as man, a republican and an anti-imperialist but again there are exceptions, I would never be as staunchly traditional as him, I'm much more open to new ideas and a socialist republican myself. I do however, have to say that he is a great loss to republicanism, RSF weren't particularly relevant but ROB was and his brand of unrepentant determination is something all republicans can aspire to. He was "walking history" while he was alive and played his part in so many significant campaigns through his life, from his youth to his old age. RIP Ruairí Ó Bradaigh. Ar dheis go raibh dé a anam uasal. Tiocfaidh ár lá.

spank_inferno

ConorR32 wrote: »

I do respect the right of the Irish working class to defend themselves by use of force.

What does that part quoted mean Conor?

ConorR32

spank_inferno wrote: »

What does that part quoted mean Conor?

That I do not agree with armed struggle today but I would not condemn it as a revolutionary tactic under the right circumstances; vis et vis, time, socio-economic conditions (of the time) and of course in situations where injustice and marginalisation are commonplace. What I am saying is that I believe the people have the right to rebel forcefully, and that although I might not support or agree with it, I would not condemn the principal of armed struggle.

getzls

I respect Ruairí Ó Bradaigh an anti-imperialist.

Why would he have been seen as that? Is this to justify his murder campaign in Northern Ireland?

SoulandForm

getzls wrote: »

I respect Ruairí Ó Bradaigh an anti-imperialist.

Why would he have been seen as that? Is this to justify his murder campaign in Northern Ireland?

His politics went a lot deeper than simple militarism.

Norwesterner

The best Taoiseach we never had.
I admired this man since I was a child.