Speeding fine.

elvisn

Hi,

If someone received a fine, but they were not the one driving. How does that person go about getting the fine allocated to the correct person?

Thanks,
E

endacl

elvisn wrote: »

Hi,

If someone received a fine, but they were not the one driving. How does that person go about getting the fine allocated to the correct person?

Thanks,
E

You get them to agree fill out the section on the notification letter agreeing that they were in fact driving at the time, and accept the points/fine. If they won't, the registered owner pays.

endacl

Correction. I spoke too soon. I do that... :rolleyes:

Where an offence is detected by camera, the fixed-charge notice will be sent to the registered owner. The Road Traffic Act provides that unless another person is identified as the driver it will be assumed that the registered owner was driving the vehicle at the time of the occurrence of the alleged offence.
There is an explicit requirement that where the registered owner of a vehicle was not driving or using the vehicle he or she must give the name and contact details of the driver of the vehicle. No payment should be enclosed.
When this information is received, the fixed charge notice will be issued to the named driver, on whose licence record the points will be endorsed, either on payment of a fixed charge or a court conviction.


From the RSA website.

elvisn

Thanks for the info

CiniO

endacl wrote: »

Correction. I spoke too soon. I do that... :rolleyes:

Where an offence is detected by camera, the fixed-charge notice will be sent to the registered owner. The Road Traffic Act provides that unless another person is identified as the driver it will be assumed that the registered owner was driving the vehicle at the time of the occurrence of the alleged offence.
There is an explicit requirement that where the registered owner of a vehicle was not driving or using the vehicle he or she must give the name and contact details of the driver of the vehicle. No payment should be enclosed.
When this information is received, the fixed charge notice will be issued to the named driver, on whose licence record the points will be endorsed, either on payment of a fixed charge or a court conviction.


From the RSA website.

What happens if named person doesn't accept the fact he was driving, or contact with him is impossible (f.e. he lives abroad)?

Mycroft H

Falls back on the registered owner I presume who then has the right to plead his case in front of a judge.

CiniO

BX 19 wrote: »

Falls back on the registered owner I presume who then has the right to plead his case in front of a judge.

But can judge say - I find you guilty just like that, or do judge need any proof that registered owner was driving?

endacl

CiniO wrote: »

But can judge say - I find you guilty just like that, or do judge need any proof that registered owner was driving?

The judge can decide that the registered owner was responsible for the choice of who they lent their car to.

CiniO

endacl wrote: »

The judge can decide that the registered owner was responsible for the choice of who they lent their car to.

It doesn't matter IMO.
If registered owner lends his car to someone who is denying now that he was driving and speeding (or is unreachable), then I still can't understand how can registered owner be prosecuted of speeding.

Is not "Presumption of innocence" the main rule of Law in today's world?

If registered owner claims - "I was not driving" then how can he be prosecuted for speeding without being proven it was him?

Sobanek

What if someone buys a 99 golf and then takes a reg from a 00 golf that's identical and gets caught by a camera?

Nonoperational

CiniO wrote: »

It doesn't matter IMO.
If registered owner lends his car to someone who is denying now that he was driving and speeding (or is unreachable), then I still can't understand how can registered owner be prosecuted of speeding.

Is not "Presumption of innocence" the main rule of Law in today's world?

If registered owner claims - "I was not driving" then how can he be prosecuted for speeding without being proven it was him?

Do you expect the judge to use his psychic powers? By your reasoning everyone would be getting off speeding fines left right and centre!

Sobanek wrote: »

What if someone buys a 99 golf and then takes a reg from a 00 golf that's identical and gets caught by a camera?

Then they're a criminal, and an idiot. And believe me, an idiot criminal isn't a good life-choice.

CiniO

Nonoperational wrote: »

Do you expect the judge to use his psychic powers?

No. I expect them to prove that I committed an offence before being prosecuted for it.

By your reasoning everyone would be getting off speeding fines left right and centre!

And with prosecuting registered owner - he might be unfairly prosecuted for things he didn't do.

Which one is better?

K.Flyer

CiniO wrote: »

No. I expect them to prove that I committed an offence before being prosecuted for it.

I think it will be very much up to you to provide proof that it was not you driving the car unless someone else accepts the charge without contest.

djimi

CiniO wrote: »

No. I expect them to prove that I committed an offence before being prosecuted for it.


And with prosecuting registered owner - he might be unfairly prosecuted for things he didn't do.

Which one is better?

If your car is caught speeding then it's one of three things: either you were driving, you know who was driving your car, or the car was stolen. If you didn't report the car as stolen, and you cant/won't give the details of who was driving the car if it wasn't you, then the only other scenario is that you were driving the car yourself.

djimi

Sobanek wrote: »

What if someone buys a 99 golf and then takes a reg from a 00 golf that's identical and gets caught by a camera?

This happens. My father got a speeding fine with a picture that was clearly his reg plate but very clearly not his car. In this case they didn't even bother using the reg from a similar model.

Henry Ford III

CiniO wrote: »

It doesn't matter IMO.
If registered owner lends his car to someone who is denying now that he was driving and speeding (or is unreachable), then I still can't understand how can registered owner be prosecuted of speeding.

Is not "Presumption of innocence" the main rule of Law in today's world?

If registered owner claims - "I was not driving" then how can he be prosecuted for speeding without being proven it was him?

Either the owner was speeding, or somone else was.

If it wasn't the owner he/she needs to identify who it was.

Seems quite reasonable.

Bohrio

CiniO wrote: »

It doesn't matter IMO.
If registered owner lends his car to someone who is denying now that he was driving and speeding (or is unreachable), then I still can't understand how can registered owner be prosecuted of speeding.

Is not "Presumption of innocence" the main rule of Law in today's world?

If registered owner claims - "I was not driving" then how can he be prosecuted for speeding without being proven it was him?

Its the owners responsibility and like someone has already said, its not up to the judge to prove if the owner was driving but for the owner to prove he wasnt. If the camera catches a car speeding the ticket will go to the registered owner as he is responsible for the car. Nobody else should be using the car without the owners consent.

If you allow someone else to drive your car and he/she gets caught speeding and doesnt want to pay the fine then its something between you and him/her.

If you didnt give him permission to take your car well, that's a different matter but still your car is your responsibility and you should have notified the authorities that a car was used without your consent.

Some years ago my brother in law woke up to find out that his car was gone, he had no clue of were it was, after a while he asked his brother if he knew where the car was, he had a hangover so it took him a while to get a reply from him, once he did he said that one of his mates took the car late at night and drove home as it was too late and he didnt want to spend the night there (he was also drunk obviously).

This guys house is like 30 km away from his, I told him to report this to the police. He didnt want to do it at first, so I told him, what if this guy, on his way back home had ran over someone or hit another car? (or was caught speeding) he rang the gardai right after.

He found the car later that day in a farm in the middle of the Wicklow mountains.

mdebets

Henry Ford III wrote: »

Either the owner was speeding, or somone else was.

If it wasn't the owner he/she needs to identify who it was.

Seems quite reasonable.

Not always. What if it was his wife who drove? He can't be forced to testify against her.
I thought that's what the picture was for. Don't the Garda check, if the driver in the picture is the owner or have a quick look around his neighbourhood, to see if someone recognises the driver.
I thought the standard was, to not convict someone in this case the first time, but make him keep a logbook, which can then be used as evidence in further speeding cases.

Wheres My ForkandKnife

endacl wrote: »

You get them to agree fill out the section on the notification letter agreeing that they were in fact driving at the time, and accept the points/fine. If they won't, the registered owner pays.

I never noticed on these fines that the person who was driving has to agree to have their details put down.Thankfully I haven't had one in years but I thought it askes on the back who was driving and their licence no. if possible.

You get the fine but are not driving just put the name and address of the person who was,whether thats Dublin or Dubai.It is now up to the guards to pursue it.If the guards then decide to prosecute the registered owner then they can request the whole photo (not just the reg) and if the person driving doesn't look like the owner it will hardly stand up in court.Unless the other person happens to be an identical twin:pac:

Bohrio

Wheres My ForkandKnife wrote: »

I never noticed on these fines that the person who was driving has to agree to have their details put down.Thankfully I haven't had one in years but I thought it askes on the back who was driving and their licence no. if possible.

You get the fine but are not driving just put the name and address of the person who was,whether thats Dublin or Dubai.It is now up to the guards to pursue it.If the guards then decide to prosecute the registered owner then they can request the whole photo (not just the reg) and if the person driving doesn't look like the owner it will hardly stand up in court.Unless the other person happens to be an identical twin:pac:

This use to happen a lot back in Spain, people saying someone from another country was driving their car at that time, providing a false address etc.. So a new law came in effect recently to say that if you were not the person driving your vehicle you will need to provide details of the person driving it (this has always been like this), then the new law says then that they will attempt to contact this person, if they fail to do so or the person says he wanst driving they will come back to you, this time it will be the final warning advising you to pay the fee, no more chances to provide a new driver you either pay or go to court.

Trying to identify whether the driver was the owner or not by looking at the photograph will make, not paying, be very easy to get away with it. All you have to do is wear a cap and big glasses or even better, a mask! Then speed as much as you want they will never be able to prove you were driving!

Wheres My ForkandKnife

Bohrio wrote: »

T All you have to do is wear a cap and big glasses or even better, a mask! Then speed as much as you want they will never be able to prove you were driving!

Start speeding around with a mask on and I think you may end up with bigger problems than two point and an €80 fine.

Meanwhile, back in the real world, if I got the fine and wasn't driving I wouldn't accept it and would go to court if I had to. If I had foolishly lent the car to someone who was uninsured to drive I would accept the fine and points as it would be the lesser of the two problems.Otherwise I would post it back with the correct drivers name and address and let the guards worry about it.

There are all types of situations which could be thrown up to keep the points e.g your friend has an irish licence with 10 points etc

Cork24

my Name has the wrong Spelling on the Tax Book, if a Ticket game in the Door with the Same Spelt name that is on the Tax Book can i get off with the points and the fine ?

Anan1

Cork24 wrote: »

my Name has the wrong Spelling on the Tax Book, if a Ticket game in the Door with the Same Spelt name that is on the Tax Book can i get off with the points and the fine ?

What do you think?

endacl

Wheres My ForkandKnife wrote: »

Start speeding around with a mask on and I think you may end up with bigger problems than two point and an €80 fine.

Meanwhile, back in the real world, if I got the fine and wasn't driving I wouldn't accept it and would go to court if I had to. If I had foolishly lent the car to someone who was uninsured to drive I would accept the fine and points as it would be the lesser of the two problems.Otherwise I would post it back with the correct drivers name and address and let the guards worry about it.

There are all types of situations which could be thrown up to keep the points e.g your friend has an irish licence with 10 points etc

There is the argument, of course, that your friends points are your friends problem? That his/her recklessness shouldn't result in you commiting an offence in taking the points?*




* may or may not be an offence. Needs fact checking.

Cork24

Anan1 wrote: »

What do you think?

I don't know that's why i am asking for, I think i would be off the hook for technically issues.

Wheres My ForkandKnife

endacl wrote: »

There is the argument, of course, that your friends points are your friends problem? That his/her recklessness shouldn't result in you commiting an offence in taking the points?*




* may or may not be an offence. Needs fact checking.

Yes you're right.The original question was what to do when someone else was driving.Generally I would send back the form with the other drivers details. I was just pointing out that there can be situations where the registered owner would be happy to take the points

endacl

Cork24 wrote: »

I don't know that's why i am asking for, I think i would be off the hook for technically issues.

Try it. Let us know how you get on...

Cork24

endacl wrote: »

Try it. Let us know how you get on...

dont have a ticket but just wondering on future Ref.

endacl

Cork24 wrote: »

dont have a ticket but just wondering on future Ref.

You'd have to pay it. Go easy on the long pedal.

Cork24

that's going hell for leather out of the question

Wheres My ForkandKnife

Cork24 wrote: »

dont have a ticket but just wondering on future Ref.

You would go to court,the details would be amended on the spot and you would be found guilty and end up with 4 points and a higher fine.Does that answer the question for you:D

Bohrio

Wheres My ForkandKnife wrote: »

Start speeding around with a mask on and I think you may end up with bigger problems than two point and an €80 fine.

Meanwhile, back in the real world, if I got the fine and wasn't driving I wouldn't accept it and would go to court if I had to. If I had foolishly lent the car to someone who was uninsured to drive I would accept the fine and points as it would be the lesser of the two problems.Otherwise I would post it back with the correct drivers name and address and let the guards worry about it.

There are all types of situations which could be thrown up to keep the points e.g your friend has an irish licence with 10 points etc

It was just an example, as I said, a cap and a pair of glasses will be enough to cover most of my face and make it indistinguishable but I am sure that wouldnt be enough for me to get away with a speeding ticket. And I am sure no cop will stop me for wearing a cap and glasses.

What I was trying to say is that if you receive a ticket and you werent driving you need to find out who was driving, it is your car therefore your responsibility. You might go to court and win, or not (I am not sure who this will work in Ireland).

Personally I would be pretty pissed if I get a ticket and found out someone drove my car without my consent. If it was without it then you will have to report it, and go to court and provide evidence that, for example, you were not in the country during those days.

If you werent driving the car and you receive a ticket and you know who was driving but that person is refusing to accept the fine, that's a different issue than saying that you never knew your car was being used and you cannot identify the driver. But again I dont know how a judge will deal with this. I suppose there will be examples out there that we can look at.

This, IMO, its a big issue in Ireland, the same way as getting away without paying a fine because you allegedly said that you have never received the fine (which actually works).

In my opinion things will have to change to prevent people from abusing of these legal "wholes". Now, I understand that some people genuinely dont get this notifications as well as some people were not driving their cars and might not know who was (although I know who drivers my car).

What is going to happen in the future is that laws are going to change, and make things harder, Spain use to be the same, people took advantage until the goverment decided to put an end to it by covering those legal wholes, now, it is almost impossible to speed in Spain and to avoid paying a fine, and a speed fine is not 80 euro and 2 points, it can be up to thousands of euro and jail time!

I just hope this doesnt happen in Ireland

Wheres My ForkandKnife

The reality is in 99.9% of cases the person driving will have the consent of the owner.I'm driving a long time and no-one has ever driven a car of mine without my consent.I don't think there was any suggestion of someone driving without consent in the original question.

You obligation is to provide the guards with the details of who was driving.After that it's up to them.If it's genuine then I'm sure the registered owner would be fine.It's only when someone is trying to pull a stroke that they may run into issues.

Bohrio

Wheres My ForkandKnife wrote: »

The reality is in 99.9% of cases the person driving will have the consent of the owner.I'm driving a long time and no-one has ever driven a car of mine without my consent.I don't think there was any suggestion of someone driving without consent in the original question.

You obligation is to provide the guards with the details of who was driving.After that it's up to them.If it's genuine then I'm sure the registered owner would be fine.It's only when someone is trying to pull a stroke that they may run into issues.

I totally agree...99% of the time if not 100%... however, the last part is again tricky, I could receive a ticket and I could lie and say, for example that you were the one driving my car, then, when the ticket gets to you you tell the gardai you werent the person driving so what next?

This will only work in a honest world... but the problem is we dont live in one, most people are honest (or try to) but sometimes people might have no choice, imagine you receive a ticket 80 euro and 2 points, and you are 2 points from having your license suspended... how many people wont feel tempted in saying oh I wasnt driving, it was this fella go and find him...

Henry Ford III

mdebets wrote: »

Not always. What if it was his wife who drove? He can't be forced to testify against her.
I thought that's what the picture was for. Don't the Garda check, if the driver in the picture is the owner or have a quick look around his neighbourhood, to see if someone recognises the driver.
I thought the standard was, to not convict someone in this case the first time, but make him keep a logbook, which can then be used as evidence in further speeding cases.

There's no testifying involved. Owner pays the fine and takes the points, or identifies who should do so.

A speeding ticket shouldn't end up as some sort of glorified whodunnit.

First time speeders aren't given a dogs life either.

Henry Ford III

Bohrio wrote: »

I totally agree...99% of the time if not 100%... however, the last part is again tricky, I could receive a ticket and I could lie and say, for example that you were the one driving my car, then, when the ticket gets to you you tell the gardai you werent the person driving so what next?

This will only work in a honest world... but the problem is we dont live in one, most people are honest (or try to) but sometimes people might have no choice, imagine you receive a ticket 80 euro and 2 points, and you are 2 points from having your license suspended... how many people wont feel tempted in saying oh I wasnt driving, it was this fella go and find him...

Doesn't work that way.

It's not up to the Gardai to find the driver - it's up to the owner to identify
the driver and get them accept the points/fine.

If they won't do that it kicks back to the owner again.

blade1

What kind of person takes your car, speeds and then leaves you pick up the fine and penalty points.
Or was it you that was speeding and you are looking for a loophole?

Henry Ford III

blade1 wrote: »

What kind of person takes your car, speeds and then leaves you pick up the fine and penalty points.
Or was it you that was speeding and you are looking for a loophole?

The sort of person you shouldn't have lent your car to?

Bohrio

Henry Ford III wrote: »

Doesn't work that way.

It's not up to the Gardai to find the driver - it's up to the owner to identify
the driver and get them accept the points/fine.

If they won't do that it kicks back to the owner again.

Thats exactly what I was trying to say... :rolleyes:

Wheres My ForkandKnife

Only on the internet could a speeding fine turn into the hunt for Lord Lucan:) There are only two possible situations.

1) I lend my car to someone who lives in Ireland.They get a fine and I pass their details on.If they deny it I could end up in court and unless they look identical to me I would be happy to go to court.

Personally this would never happen to me as I would be very particular about who I lend my car to. I can say with 100% confidence I wouldn't be put in this situation.

2) I lend my car to someone here on holidays.I would most likely have to name them on my policy for them to be able to drive legally here.When you think of all the things that could happen here a speeding fine is probably the best of them.My "friend" who lives in Walkabout Creek tells the guards to do one.Not my problem, I have details that they were legally driving my car and there is photographic evidence that it was not me driving.

You are obliged to pass on the name and address of the person who was driving.The amount of people I would lend my car to I could count on one hand and I would know a lot more about them than just their name and address.

You could discuss hypothetical situations until the cows come home but the above is the reality for me.

ironclaw

Cork24 wrote: »

I don't know that's why i am asking for, I think i would be off the hook for technically issues.

If you have the car for any period of time and don't correct the log book, then that would be a technicality not in your favor. Your supposed to notify Shannon of any errors (Same as for a passport, driving license etc) If you want to be really technical (And by-the-book unrealistic at the same time), you don't own the car if your details are incorrect on the log book.

CiniO

djimi wrote: »

If your car is caught speeding then it's one of three things: either you were driving, you know who was driving your car, or the car was stolen. If you didn't report the car as stolen, and you cant/won't give the details of who was driving the car if it wasn't you, then the only other scenario is that you were driving the car yourself.

OK.
So what law requires me to remember (or note down) everyone who I lend my car to?
I'm asking seriously - maybe there is such law, but I haven't seen it yet.


I know it's not a big problem if you give your car to your wife once every 2 month to go shopping.

But if you own a company and give company car to every of your 20 employees, there might be some confusion who was driving when.

CiniO

Henry Ford III wrote: »

Either the owner was speeding, or somone else was.

If it wasn't the owner he/she needs to identify who it was.

Seems quite reasonable.

Yes. Seems reasonable if it's required by law to remember or have noted down who was driving when.

But even if that's the case, there still remains the problem what to do, when nominated person denies to be driving or is just inaccessible or literally doesn't bother to accept or pay the fine.

While first argument is reasonable, I completely can't understand why car registered owner should be liable someone else who he lend his car to.
Why should the owner be prosecuted for speeding if he didn't do it.

F.e. I have my friend from Spain visiting and I give him my car for few days. He is caught speeding.
I receive speeding fine, and I fill in the form with my friend details including his address in Spain.
He receives the fine, but decides to bin it, as he knows that fines from foreign countries are not enforcible, and even further he's not planning to visit Ireland anymore.

So please tell me - why should I be penalised with fine and points for offence that someone else committed?

CiniO

Bohrio wrote: »

Its the owners responsibility and like someone has already said, its not up to the judge to prove if the owner was driving but for the owner to prove he wasnt.

Yes and that's what's bothering me - because it's clearly against the most basic rule - "persumption of innocence".
Why should I be prosecuted for something which wasn't proven I did commit.

If the camera catches a car speeding the ticket will go to the registered owner as he is responsible for the car. Nobody else should be using the car without the owners consent.

If you allow someone else to drive your car and he/she gets caught speeding and doesnt want to pay the fine then its something between you and him/her.

I completely disagree.
If I lend a car to someone I might be taking a risk of loosing this car.
But I can't take responsibility of what that person does on the road.
You say if he doesn't admit he was speeding, then I should be fined for speeding.

What if that person kills someone on the road and runs away? And then doesn't admit doing it...
Should I still be prosecuted for killing someone and running away, just because it was done with my car?

Sorry, but it doesn't make any logical sense to me.

CiniO

Henry Ford III wrote: »

Doesn't work that way.

It's not up to the Gardai to find the driver - it's up to the owner to identify
the driver and get them accept the points/fine.

If they won't do that it kicks back to the owner again.

You are saying that by lending someone a car, you are taking full responsibility for whatever is done in this car by that person?


Does it work the same with other things? If I lend my chainsaw to a neighbour, and he goes around the village and slaughters 100 people, then if he won't accept the fact he done that, then it will be my responsibility, as I should get him to accept the guilt?

Nonoperational

I used to spend a hell of a lot of time on this forum. Difficult to read a thread now without wanting to go mad. Time (and members) move on I guess. Pity.

ironclaw

CiniO wrote: »

You are saying that by lending someone a car, you are taking full responsibility for whatever is done in this car by that person?

Does it work the same with other things? If I lend my chainsaw to a neighbour, and he goes around the village and slaughters 100 people, then if he won't accept the fact he done that, then it will be my responsibility, as I should get him to accept the guilt?

Key difference is proof of ownership.

A car is 'licensed' to you by the fact that you have a log book. Its yours, its tangible. Same as a firearm in this county. You have a license for it. Its yours, its tangible to you. A chainsaw could be anyone's. Yes its yours, but it certainly does not fall under the category of the above. Its far harder to prove someone owned a particular chainsaw.

If someone goes into town and re-enacts the chainsaw massacre, the onus is on you to prove it wasn't you (Should they tie the chainsaw back to you and the user isn't caught red handed). That's not to say your not innocent until proven guilty. Its the correlation of facts i.e. Your chainsaw was used, so there is a reasonable case it was you who did it. However if you could prove otherwise i.e. An alibi / taken without your consent, then your home and dry. That's the basis of all cases. The prosecution must make a case that it was you who did it.

Same applies if someone used your gun. You must keep any firearm in this country in a safe, secure location. As such if its used, the onus is on your to prove it wasn't by you.

So finally if a car, which is registered to you and requires your consent (i.e. The keys) to be used, then the onus is on your to prove you weren't driving. Its reasonable to assume a car being driven is under the control of the owner. If you give it to someone who isn't willing to accept a fine, then that's your problem not the State's.

djimi

CiniO wrote: »

OK.
So what law requires me to remember (or note down) everyone who I lend my car to?
I'm asking seriously - maybe there is such law, but I haven't seen it yet.


I know it's not a big problem if you give your car to your wife once every 2 month to go shopping.

But if you own a company and give company car to every of your 20 employees, there might be some confusion who was driving when.

Yes, its up to you to know who was driving your and when. Im not sure how it works in the case of a company car; possibly the fine is issued to the company and its up to them to determine who was driving to recover costs, but in the case of a private car its not really all that difficult to remember who was driving your car and when. If you are in the habit of lending your car out to different people on a regular basis then you need to keep some sort of log of who had the car, because if they get caught speeding the fine is going to be coming through your door.

Bohrio

CiniO wrote: »

F.e. I have my friend from Spain visiting and I give him my car for few days. He is caught speeding.
I receive speeding fine, and I fill in the form with my friend details including his address in Spain.
He receives the fine, but decides to bin it, as he knows that fines from foreign countries are not enforcible, and even further he's not planning to visit Ireland anymore.

So please tell me - why should I be penalised with fine and points for offence that someone else committed?

If you are not sure that the person driving your car will be responsible enough to accept the fine then dont lend it to this person.

Looking at your example coincidentally I had a friend over from Spain a few months ago, while he was here he got a speeding ticket, when the ticket arrived I gave his details as the person driver, he paid the fine (didnt get the points) and everything was sorted. Before he paid it and after I had sent the driver details back to whoever deals with this issues I received a letter saying that they have processed my ticket and that they were trying to locate the driver I had provided and that I didnt have to worry about the fine any longer.

blackwhite

In the case of a company car, the fine is initially issued in the name of the company secretary and they then allocate out to the appropriate persons.

Henry Ford III

CiniO wrote: »

You are saying that by lending someone a car, you are taking full responsibility for whatever is done in this car by that person?


Does it work the same with other things? If I lend my chainsaw to a neighbour, and he goes around the village and slaughters 100 people, then if he won't accept the fact he done that, then it will be my responsibility, as I should get him to accept the guilt?

Less of the strawmen please.