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Speeding fine.

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  • 05-06-2013 6:51pm
    #1
    elvisn
    Registered Users Posts: 53 ✭✭


    Hi,

    If someone received a fine, but they were not the one driving. How does that person go about getting the fine allocated to the correct person?

    Thanks,
    E


«1

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    #2
    endacl
    Registered Users Posts: 22,280 ✭✭✭✭endacl


    elvisn wrote: »
    Hi,

    If someone received a fine, but they were not the one driving. How does that person go about getting the fine allocated to the correct person?

    Thanks,
    E
    You get them to agree fill out the section on the notification letter agreeing that they were in fact driving at the time, and accept the points/fine. If they won't, the registered owner pays.


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    #3
    endacl
    Registered Users Posts: 22,280 ✭✭✭✭endacl


    Correction. I spoke too soon. I do that... :rolleyes:

    Where an offence is detected by camera, the fixed-charge notice will be sent to the registered owner. The Road Traffic Act provides that unless another person is identified as the driver it will be assumed that the registered owner was driving the vehicle at the time of the occurrence of the alleged offence.
    There is an explicit requirement that where the registered owner of a vehicle was not driving or using the vehicle he or she must give the name and contact details of the driver of the vehicle. No payment should be enclosed.
    When this information is received, the fixed charge notice will be issued to the named driver, on whose licence record the points will be endorsed, either on payment of a fixed charge or a court conviction.


    From the RSA website.


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    #4
    elvisn
    Registered Users Posts: 53 ✭✭elvisn


    Thanks for the info :)


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    #5
    CiniO
    Registered Users Posts: 16,071 ✭✭✭✭CiniO


    endacl wrote: »
    Correction. I spoke too soon. I do that... :rolleyes:

    Where an offence is detected by camera, the fixed-charge notice will be sent to the registered owner. The Road Traffic Act provides that unless another person is identified as the driver it will be assumed that the registered owner was driving the vehicle at the time of the occurrence of the alleged offence.
    There is an explicit requirement that where the registered owner of a vehicle was not driving or using the vehicle he or she must give the name and contact details of the driver of the vehicle. No payment should be enclosed.
    When this information is received, the fixed charge notice will be issued to the named driver, on whose licence record the points will be endorsed, either on payment of a fixed charge or a court conviction.


    From the RSA website.

    What happens if named person doesn't accept the fact he was driving, or contact with him is impossible (f.e. he lives abroad)?


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    #6
    Mycroft H
    Registered Users Posts: 9,313 ✭✭✭Mycroft H


    Falls back on the registered owner I presume who then has the right to plead his case in front of a judge.


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    #7
    CiniO
    Registered Users Posts: 16,071 ✭✭✭✭CiniO


    BX 19 wrote: »
    Falls back on the registered owner I presume who then has the right to plead his case in front of a judge.

    But can judge say - I find you guilty just like that, or do judge need any proof that registered owner was driving?


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    #8
    endacl
    Registered Users Posts: 22,280 ✭✭✭✭endacl


    CiniO wrote: »
    But can judge say - I find you guilty just like that, or do judge need any proof that registered owner was driving?
    The judge can decide that the registered owner was responsible for the choice of who they lent their car to.


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    #9
    CiniO
    Registered Users Posts: 16,071 ✭✭✭✭CiniO


    endacl wrote: »
    The judge can decide that the registered owner was responsible for the choice of who they lent their car to.

    It doesn't matter IMO.
    If registered owner lends his car to someone who is denying now that he was driving and speeding (or is unreachable), then I still can't understand how can registered owner be prosecuted of speeding.

    Is not "Presumption of innocence" the main rule of Law in today's world?

    If registered owner claims - "I was not driving" then how can he be prosecuted for speeding without being proven it was him?


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    #10
    Sobanek
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,354 ✭✭✭Sobanek


    What if someone buys a 99 golf and then takes a reg from a 00 golf that's identical and gets caught by a camera?


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    #11
    Nonoperational
    Registered Users Posts: 7,401 ✭✭✭Nonoperational


    CiniO wrote: »
    It doesn't matter IMO.
    If registered owner lends his car to someone who is denying now that he was driving and speeding (or is unreachable), then I still can't understand how can registered owner be prosecuted of speeding.

    Is not "Presumption of innocence" the main rule of Law in today's world?

    If registered owner claims - "I was not driving" then how can he be prosecuted for speeding without being proven it was him?


    Do you expect the judge to use his psychic powers? By your reasoning everyone would be getting off speeding fines left right and centre!
    Sobanek wrote: »
    What if someone buys a 99 golf and then takes a reg from a 00 golf that's identical and gets caught by a camera?

    Then they're a criminal, and an idiot. And believe me, an idiot criminal isn't a good life-choice.


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    #12
    CiniO
    Registered Users Posts: 16,071 ✭✭✭✭CiniO


    Nonoperational wrote: »
    Do you expect the judge to use his psychic powers?
    No. I expect them to prove that I committed an offence before being prosecuted for it.
    By your reasoning everyone would be getting off speeding fines left right and centre!
    And with prosecuting registered owner - he might be unfairly prosecuted for things he didn't do.

    Which one is better?


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    #13
    K.Flyer
    Registered Users Posts: 8,565 ✭✭✭K.Flyer


    CiniO wrote: »
    No. I expect them to prove that I committed an offence before being prosecuted for it.

    I think it will be very much up to you to provide proof that it was not you driving the car unless someone else accepts the charge without contest.


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    #14
    djimi
    Registered Users Posts: 13,237 ✭✭✭✭djimi


    CiniO wrote: »
    No. I expect them to prove that I committed an offence before being prosecuted for it.


    And with prosecuting registered owner - he might be unfairly prosecuted for things he didn't do.

    Which one is better?

    If your car is caught speeding then it's one of three things: either you were driving, you know who was driving your car, or the car was stolen. If you didn't report the car as stolen, and you cant/won't give the details of who was driving the car if it wasn't you, then the only other scenario is that you were driving the car yourself.


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    #15
    djimi
    Registered Users Posts: 13,237 ✭✭✭✭djimi


    Sobanek wrote: »
    What if someone buys a 99 golf and then takes a reg from a 00 golf that's identical and gets caught by a camera?

    This happens. My father got a speeding fine with a picture that was clearly his reg plate but very clearly not his car. In this case they didn't even bother using the reg from a similar model.


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    #16
    Henry Ford III
    Moderators, Business & Finance Moderators Posts: 17,694 Mod ✭✭✭✭Henry Ford III


    CiniO wrote: »
    It doesn't matter IMO.
    If registered owner lends his car to someone who is denying now that he was driving and speeding (or is unreachable), then I still can't understand how can registered owner be prosecuted of speeding.

    Is not "Presumption of innocence" the main rule of Law in today's world?

    If registered owner claims - "I was not driving" then how can he be prosecuted for speeding without being proven it was him?

    Either the owner was speeding, or somone else was.

    If it wasn't the owner he/she needs to identify who it was.

    Seems quite reasonable.


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    #17
    Bohrio
    Registered Users Posts: 2,752 ✭✭✭Bohrio


    CiniO wrote: »
    It doesn't matter IMO.
    If registered owner lends his car to someone who is denying now that he was driving and speeding (or is unreachable), then I still can't understand how can registered owner be prosecuted of speeding.

    Is not "Presumption of innocence" the main rule of Law in today's world?

    If registered owner claims - "I was not driving" then how can he be prosecuted for speeding without being proven it was him?

    Its the owners responsibility and like someone has already said, its not up to the judge to prove if the owner was driving but for the owner to prove he wasnt. If the camera catches a car speeding the ticket will go to the registered owner as he is responsible for the car. Nobody else should be using the car without the owners consent.

    If you allow someone else to drive your car and he/she gets caught speeding and doesnt want to pay the fine then its something between you and him/her.

    If you didnt give him permission to take your car well, that's a different matter but still your car is your responsibility and you should have notified the authorities that a car was used without your consent.

    Some years ago my brother in law woke up to find out that his car was gone, he had no clue of were it was, after a while he asked his brother if he knew where the car was, he had a hangover so it took him a while to get a reply from him, once he did he said that one of his mates took the car late at night and drove home as it was too late and he didnt want to spend the night there (he was also drunk obviously).

    This guys house is like 30 km away from his, I told him to report this to the police. He didnt want to do it at first, so I told him, what if this guy, on his way back home had ran over someone or hit another car? (or was caught speeding) he rang the gardai right after.

    He found the car later that day in a farm in the middle of the Wicklow mountains.


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    #18
    mdebets
    Registered Users Posts: 1,747 ✭✭✭mdebets


    Henry Ford III wrote: »
    Either the owner was speeding, or somone else was.

    If it wasn't the owner he/she needs to identify who it was.

    Seems quite reasonable.
    Not always. What if it was his wife who drove? He can't be forced to testify against her.
    I thought that's what the picture was for. Don't the Garda check, if the driver in the picture is the owner or have a quick look around his neighbourhood, to see if someone recognises the driver.
    I thought the standard was, to not convict someone in this case the first time, but make him keep a logbook, which can then be used as evidence in further speeding cases.


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    #19
    Wheres My ForkandKnife
    Registered Users Posts: 183 ✭✭Wheres My ForkandKnife


    endacl wrote: »
    You get them to agree fill out the section on the notification letter agreeing that they were in fact driving at the time, and accept the points/fine. If they won't, the registered owner pays.

    I never noticed on these fines that the person who was driving has to agree to have their details put down.Thankfully I haven't had one in years but I thought it askes on the back who was driving and their licence no. if possible.

    You get the fine but are not driving just put the name and address of the person who was,whether thats Dublin or Dubai.It is now up to the guards to pursue it.If the guards then decide to prosecute the registered owner then they can request the whole photo (not just the reg) and if the person driving doesn't look like the owner it will hardly stand up in court.Unless the other person happens to be an identical twin:pac:


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    #20
    Bohrio
    Registered Users Posts: 2,752 ✭✭✭Bohrio


    Wheres My ForkandKnife wrote: »
    I never noticed on these fines that the person who was driving has to agree to have their details put down.Thankfully I haven't had one in years but I thought it askes on the back who was driving and their licence no. if possible.

    You get the fine but are not driving just put the name and address of the person who was,whether thats Dublin or Dubai.It is now up to the guards to pursue it.If the guards then decide to prosecute the registered owner then they can request the whole photo (not just the reg) and if the person driving doesn't look like the owner it will hardly stand up in court.Unless the other person happens to be an identical twin:pac:

    This use to happen a lot back in Spain, people saying someone from another country was driving their car at that time, providing a false address etc.. So a new law came in effect recently to say that if you were not the person driving your vehicle you will need to provide details of the person driving it (this has always been like this), then the new law says then that they will attempt to contact this person, if they fail to do so or the person says he wanst driving they will come back to you, this time it will be the final warning advising you to pay the fee, no more chances to provide a new driver you either pay or go to court.

    Trying to identify whether the driver was the owner or not by looking at the photograph will make, not paying, be very easy to get away with it. All you have to do is wear a cap and big glasses or even better, a mask! Then speed as much as you want they will never be able to prove you were driving!


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    #21
    Wheres My ForkandKnife
    Registered Users Posts: 183 ✭✭Wheres My ForkandKnife


    Bohrio wrote: »
    T All you have to do is wear a cap and big glasses or even better, a mask! Then speed as much as you want they will never be able to prove you were driving!

    Start speeding around with a mask on and I think you may end up with bigger problems than two point and an €80 fine.

    Meanwhile, back in the real world, if I got the fine and wasn't driving I wouldn't accept it and would go to court if I had to. If I had foolishly lent the car to someone who was uninsured to drive I would accept the fine and points as it would be the lesser of the two problems.Otherwise I would post it back with the correct drivers name and address and let the guards worry about it.

    There are all types of situations which could be thrown up to keep the points e.g your friend has an irish licence with 10 points etc


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    #22
    Cork24
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,663 ✭✭✭Cork24


    my Name has the wrong Spelling on the Tax Book, if a Ticket game in the Door with the Same Spelt name that is on the Tax Book can i get off with the points and the fine ?


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    #23
    Anan1
    Registered Users Posts: 22,815 ✭✭✭✭Anan1


    Cork24 wrote: »
    my Name has the wrong Spelling on the Tax Book, if a Ticket game in the Door with the Same Spelt name that is on the Tax Book can i get off with the points and the fine ?
    What do you think?


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    #24
    endacl
    Registered Users Posts: 22,280 ✭✭✭✭endacl


    Wheres My ForkandKnife wrote: »
    Start speeding around with a mask on and I think you may end up with bigger problems than two point and an €80 fine.

    Meanwhile, back in the real world, if I got the fine and wasn't driving I wouldn't accept it and would go to court if I had to. If I had foolishly lent the car to someone who was uninsured to drive I would accept the fine and points as it would be the lesser of the two problems.Otherwise I would post it back with the correct drivers name and address and let the guards worry about it.

    There are all types of situations which could be thrown up to keep the points e.g your friend has an irish licence with 10 points etc

    There is the argument, of course, that your friends points are your friends problem? That his/her recklessness shouldn't result in you commiting an offence in taking the points?*




    * may or may not be an offence. Needs fact checking.


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    #25
    Cork24
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,663 ✭✭✭Cork24


    Anan1 wrote: »
    What do you think?


    I don't know that's why i am asking for, I think i would be off the hook for technically issues.


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    #26
    Wheres My ForkandKnife
    Registered Users Posts: 183 ✭✭Wheres My ForkandKnife


    endacl wrote: »
    There is the argument, of course, that your friends points are your friends problem? That his/her recklessness shouldn't result in you commiting an offence in taking the points?*




    * may or may not be an offence. Needs fact checking.

    Yes you're right.The original question was what to do when someone else was driving.Generally I would send back the form with the other drivers details. I was just pointing out that there can be situations where the registered owner would be happy to take the points


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    #27
    endacl
    Registered Users Posts: 22,280 ✭✭✭✭endacl


    Cork24 wrote: »
    I don't know that's why i am asking for, I think i would be off the hook for technically issues.

    Try it. Let us know how you get on...


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    #28
    Cork24
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,663 ✭✭✭Cork24


    endacl wrote: »
    Try it. Let us know how you get on...


    dont have a ticket but just wondering on future Ref.


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    #29
    endacl
    Registered Users Posts: 22,280 ✭✭✭✭endacl


    Cork24 wrote: »
    dont have a ticket but just wondering on future Ref.

    You'd have to pay it. Go easy on the long pedal.

    ;)


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    #30
    Cork24
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,663 ✭✭✭Cork24


    that's going hell for leather out of the question


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    #31
    Wheres My ForkandKnife
    Registered Users Posts: 183 ✭✭Wheres My ForkandKnife


    Cork24 wrote: »
    dont have a ticket but just wondering on future Ref.

    You would go to court,the details would be amended on the spot and you would be found guilty and end up with 4 points and a higher fine.Does that answer the question for you:D


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