Depression and suicides because of bullying at work

ilovebiology

Hi all.

I am feeling particularly low at the moment, and have decided to post here in After Hours, as the thread that Dev posted has been accepted and discussed by alot of people, without them been ridiculed. I think the thread is so important, to openly discuss how people are feeling, and to talk about depression.

I have suffered, and am continuing to suffer from depression. The reason I developed the illness on a very SEVERE level was because of bullying and harassment in the workplace. I suffer with another medical condition where I am sick from time to time (A relapse would just hit me any time it wants, and I would be really sick, or in alot of pain.)

Anyways, I told my employer about this, and got my job. I suffered a terrible relapse a while into my job, and was sneered at, ignored, and not believed I was in so much pain. I was not believed I was sick, and in so much pain because you can't see pain that is inside a person, and therefore alot of the time you are not believed you are sick or in pain. I was in and out of work for a while, and from that point onwards I was treated so badly at work because of it.

My colleagues sneered at me, ignored me, passed upsetting remarks about people being sick. That was bad enough, but my manager had meetings with me, and harassed me so much, she put me crying all the time. I was terrified I was going to lose my job for something that wasn't my fault.

From that point onwards I went through hell and back at work. At first I didn't know what to do, or who to turn to, and then I realised I should not be treated like this because of an illness that's not my fault, and I was perfectly able to work. So I decided to fight back. I bought law books, and learned the law, and used it where I used to work. I got a union involved who were helpful for a while, and then overnight, were of no help. I was subjected to constant intimidation, harassment, my work scrutinised, and made do really terrible work.

I began to drink just to cope with what was going on. I began to see a counsellor, who stopped me from becoming a full blown alcoholic, which I will always be grateful for. I stood up to those who I worked with, but the more I stood up to them the worse they got. There was one manager who spoke to me in such an intimidating way that it was in a way that a man should never speak to a girl, as it was so aggressive and intimidating.

I developed severe anxiety and depression, and not only was it so hard to try and deal with that but I was also fighting a constant battle where I worked. I lost a load of weight (Not that I'm fat in anyway!) but was skin and bones. I suffered a very serious nervous breakdown, and was very suicidal at the time. That time was the worst in my entire life, and trying to fight not taking my own life was extremely difficult. I cried all the time, and was in a dark dark hole. It was the most difficult and terrifying time in my life. I became better, and got back working again. I was again subjected to the same terrible treatment, all because I stood up for my rights, and to try and get some acceptance at work. I became extremely ill again, and was back to square one. Back in hell again.

I got a legal team, and issued my employer with legal proceedings for the High Court, and finally got the help I so desperately needed to fight on my behalf, and to try and get some justice for what I was so wrongly put through. I had absolutely no life. I was very very ill. Unable to eat, scared and afraid every single day I went into work, and on some occasions I was so ill with anxiety that I would be getting sick at work. I had no social life, and spent my time outside of work, trying to recover from what I was going through at work.

I was not paid when I was sick, and therefore became in a severe financial trouble, and unable to see a counsellor for help, and I became worse. Anyways, I went to some other courts and I won my smaller cases I had against them. My knowledge of the law scared the hell out of them, but it didn't stop them from being so evil towards me.

My high court case was settled the first day of the trial at the High Court. I no longer work there, and am at present recovering from the entire thing. When I think back on it, all I can see is blackness, and absolute hell. I sometimes wonder how I survived for so long, just to stand up to them, and not be forced out of my job, but it was pure determination, and fighting for what was right, and fighting for what was wrong too. It took a long time, but I won my case, and got justice for what I was so wrongly, and illegally put through.

There is something that is HUGELY ignored, and seems to be invisible in this country at the moment, and that is the issue of workplace bullying. Every single person I know has been exposed to some form of it in the workplace, and over the past few years, it has excelled at a HUGE rate, especially with the recession, where employers are putting employees through exceptional levels of stress, strain and pressure. Employers refuse to deal with the problems that staff have, and if the issue of bullying in the workplace is raised to a manager it is ignored, and the bullying continues or gets even worse.

There are many people, who if they were in my position, with what I went through, would have 1 million % have left there job, or there is the odd person like myself, so stands up, and says NO I WILL NOT BE TREATED LIKE THIS, AND I WILL NOT BE FORCED OUT OF MY JOB. Employers are getting away with absolute MURDER, and this is an issue I feel that needs to be raised and discussed.

The issue of bullying at school has been brought to the attention through the media, but workplace bullying has not. There are people who are forced to stay in their jobs, and are forced to "Put up with it" because they are afraid of making a complaint, afraid of making it worse, or afraid of losing their job. They have the added pressure of trying to take care of a family, trying to sustain financial pressures like having a mortage, and are put through this, pushed into depression, and possible suicide because it is too much for a person. Again, I feel the issue of workplace bullying needs to be raised, and discussed, as I ask you this: -

How many suicides over the past few years have been because of workplace bullying?


I hope this issue can be discussed as openly as the issue of depression in this forum. Thanks for reading my post.

meoklmrk91

I'm sorry you had to go through that, no one should be subjected to that kind of treatment. I have gone through a few periods in my life, you used the term blackness, I think that describes it perfectly. Well done for seeing it through and taking them to court, many people who would have been going through would not have been capable of seeing it through, not because of weakness but because when you are subjected to mental torture on a daily basis it wears you down so completely that you are left as a shell of your former self. While not a victim of workplace bullying I was subjected to school bullying, it was very traumatic and to this day still has an effect on me. I know many people who would say the same.

ilovebiology

It was an extremely traumatic time in my life, that went on for so long, but I never gave up, and refused to be forced out of my job. I'm still very ill from the entire thing, but am gradually tiny bit by bit trying to find the person I was before it all happened. I wouldn't describe them as managers, I would describe them as evil gangsters. I really hope they rot in hell for what they done to me.

Anyone any other stories of being pushed into depression, feeling extremely suicidal because of workplace bullying?

HondaSami

ilovebiology wrote: »

There is something that is HUGELY ignored, and seems to be invisible in this country at the moment, and that is the issue of workplace bullying. Every single person I know has been exposed to some form of it in the workplace, and over the past few years, it has excelled at a HUGE rate, especially with the recession, where employers are putting employees through exceptional levels of stress, strain and pressure. Employers refuse to deal with the problems that staff have, and if the issue of bullying in the workplace is raised to a manager it is ignored, and the bullying continues or gets even worse.

Your post is a little confusing to me, you went up against your employer and won, this is good is it not?

Some people use bullying as a reason for their own attitude to management, not saying you are anyone you know did but i have seen people use the bullying line when it was apparent it was them who was out of order.

I have no doubt bullying happens but im not so sure it is as bad as you are saying.

Wanderer2010

Im sorry you had to go through that OP, but I commend your bravery for wanting to stand up for your rights. Ultimately though NO job is worth your mental or physical health and I wouldnt ever regard your experience as a failure. If it were a different group of people you may have had enough support to change the culture or get some financial reward for your suffering, however your workplace sounded like it was never going to change and was dictated by the horrible people working there.

Thank God I was never suicidal over work but I have had depression because of another taboo workplace issue that affect thousands of people across the country: social isolation at work. Sadly,many many workplaces have a culture which is controlled by one or two highly dominant alpha males or females and these people are allowed to run riot at work: no managers will take them on as its too much hassle so basically you either get on with this person or your dont. If you do, happy days, you have constant lunch companions, your day is less stressful and you can switch off from work. If not though your working day is a lot more stressful, with isolation, mocking (even mocking which is blatant and not hid) and a general sense of rejection coming from your workmates, because the alpha will have many followers- if he/she doesnt take to you, their followers wont either (even if they may like you but are too scared to rock the boat).

This leaves a situation where you are left out of the group and although they may never say it to your face that they hate you, its expressed in a thousand different small ways (not saying hello, never leaving doors open, sitting away from you at lunch, no invites to social events, being rude to you over trivial issues etc) and this treatment builds over time to make the employee very anxious, depressed and hopeless. Even an active life outside of work may not be enough to help and you end up sleeping poorly, eating poorly and generally wanting to just stay in bed. Whats worse is that the managers who notice your treatment do one of two things: 1. Hope you will leave so that they dont have to tackle the main bully. 2. Hope you will be allowed into the clique so they dont have to tackle the main bully. HR rarely get involved in issues like this so the situation can drag on for months or even years until the employee either leaves or the culture changes, most likely the former option. And although some people can find a clique which accepts them, others arent so lucky and proloned periods of isolation can lead to depression and suicide.

The above issue is a reality for so many working men and women and if i were to offer some light in the tunnel its to try outside hobbies so you can connect with others a bit better and this may lead to common links with new or older workmates. If not though, sadly most managers are too scared to tackle troublemakers in the workplace so you have to decide if its worth damaging your mental health and just try to move on to another job and hope for a different culture. Sad but true.

ilovebiology

HondaSami wrote: »

Your post is a little confusing to me, you went up against your employer and won, this is good is it not?

Some people use bullying as a reason for their own attitude to management, not saying you are anyone you know did but i have seen people use the bullying line when it was apparent it was them who was out of order.

I have no doubt bullying happens but im not so sure it is as bad as you are saying.

Yes I won all my cases in the smaller courts, and my employer settled out of the High Court, and settled for my benefit.

What I mean is that there are so many people in Ireland who have been exposed to some form of bullying in the workplace. All of my friends (Meaning every single person I know - referring to my friends) have been exposed to it in some form, alot milder or in some cases just as bad as what I went through.

It was nothing that I did wrong at work, otherwise I would not have won all my cases I took against them. They were wrong, not me, and I was proven to be right in the end.

I strongly believe that bullying is in every workplace, but again when it is taking place it is not discussed, and nothing done about it. And I assure you, there are cases just as bad as mine, if not worse. It is a very serious problem, and is pushing many people into depression, up to and including suicide.

IM0

I have nothing to say other than massive MASSIVE respect to you, youre an inspiration to many no doubt who have just read that

ilovebiology

Wanderer2010 wrote: »

Im sorry you had to go through that OP, but I commend your bravery for wanting to stand up for your rights. Ultimately though NO job is worth your mental or physical health and I wouldnt ever regard your experience as a failure. If it were a different group of people you may have had enough support to change the culture or get some financial reward for your suffering, however your workplace sounded like it was never going to change and was dictated by the horrible people working there.

Thank God I was never suicidal over work but I have had depression because of another taboo workplace issue that affect thousands of people across the country: social isolation at work. Sadly,many many workplaces have a culture which is controlled by one or two highly dominant alpha males or females and these people are allowed to run riot at work: no managers will take them on as its too much hassle so basically you either get on with this person or your dont. If you do, happy days, you have constant lunch companions, your day is less stressful and you can switch off from work. If not though your working day is a lot more stressful, with isolation, mocking (even mocking which is blatant and not hid) and a general sense of rejection coming from your workmates, because the alpha will have many followers- if he/she doesnt take to you, their followers wont either (even if they may like you but are too scared to rock the boat).

This leaves a situation where you are left out of the group and although they may never say it to your face that they hate you, its expressed in a thousand different small ways (not saying hello, never leaving doors open, sitting away from you at lunch, no invites to social events, being rude to you over trivial issues etc) and this treatment builds over time to make the employee very anxious, depressed and hopeless. Even an active life outside of work may not be enough to help and you end up sleeping poorly, eating poorly and generally wanting to just stay in bed. Whats worse is that the managers who notice your treatment do one of two things: 1. Hope you will leave so that they dont have to tackle the main bully. 2. Hope you will be allowed into the clique so they dont have to tackle the main bully. HR rarely get involved in issues like this so the situation can drag on for months or even years until the employee either leaves or the culture changes, most likely the former option. And although some people can find a clique which accepts them, others arent so lucky and proloned periods of isolation can lead to depression and suicide.

The above issue is a reality for so many working men and women and if i were to offer some light in the tunnel its to try outside hobbies so you can connect with others a bit better and this may lead to common links with new or older workmates. If not though, sadly most managers are too scared to tackle troublemakers in the workplace so you have to decide if its worth damaging your mental health and just try to move on to another job and hope for a different culture. Sad but true.

I suffered and went through hell and back, but I stayed in my job as I refused to be forced out, and no one in this day and age should be forced out of their job because of harassment in the workplace. I suffered because of how I was treated, but they paid for their treatment of me in the end. See a person health should not in anyway be affected by work, and an employer by law is not allowed to do that. That's what I was fighting for, to never give up or give into the evil people I worked for, as they would have won, not me. I beat them in the end though.

There are cliques or the "Office bit*h" or the bully at work, I believe in every workplace. Its not just that, its HR, and managers who WILL NOT do their jobs, and stop bullying from taking place in the first place. When a problem is brought to the attention of HR, or a manager and they do nothing about it, they should be fired.

Why should employers get away with murder, when there needs to be something very seriously done about all of this. There are people who have been unfairly dismissed, lost their jobs in extremely unfair ways, unfair redundancies, or the plain and simple they leave their job because of bullying and harassment. This should not take place, and HR and managers need to start doing their jobs instead of ignoring problems of bullying employees bring to their attention.

Recently there have been children who have committed suicide because of online bullying, or bullying at school. How many suicides have been caused by bullying, or extreme stress and pressure at work, or unfair dismissals etc? It is a HUGE problem.

pharmaton

I've been in similar situations but I'd rather just walk away than stay and put up with it, the way I see it is I get stronger and go on to do better things while the ass clowns I leave behind remain ass clowns forever.

Taco Corp

Did you ever confront those that were bullying you? and if yes, what excuses did they offer up?

ilovebiology

pharmaton wrote: »

I've been in similar situations but I'd rather just walk away than stay and put up with it, the way I see it is I get stronger and go on to do better things while the ass clowns I leave behind remain ass clowns forever.

Everyone has a choice in a situation like this. Its either leave your job, or stay and fight. Many people leave their jobs, but why should you have to leave your job? Its not you who should have to leave, or be forced out of your job, its HR, and the managers who REFUSE to deal with bullying in the workplace that should be tossed out, not you.

That's the way its done in Ireland, either stay in your job and be forced to put up with it - where nothing is done about it, or leave. I decided to stay and fight, as I refused to be forced out of my job.

If a survey was conducted, how many people would have left their jobs because of bullying? Or a horrible nasty manager?

Why should you have to put up with it, especially these days when having a job is so critical, as there are so very few jobs out there. Employers know this, and as a result have got away with absolute MURDER the past few years.

That's why I posted here on boards, as its an issue that is hugely connected to depression and suicides in Ireland, as like depression and anxiety was like years ago it wasn't discussed. This is an issue that needs to be raised, discussed, and something done about it, as what is going on, and what is covered up is unreal.

ilovebiology

Captain_Hindsight wrote: »

Did you ever confront those that were bullying you? and if yes, what excuses did they offer up?

Of course I did! I wasn't afraid to put them in their place, and say their behaviour was completely unacceptable, but nothing was ever done about it, in spite of complaints I made.

So instead of giving into my employer, and leaving my job, I stayed and stood up for myself, and won in the end.

Taco Corp

ilovebiology wrote: »

Of course I did! I wasn't afraid to put them in their place, and say their behaviour was completely unacceptable, but nothing was ever done about it, in spite of complaints I made.

So instead of giving into my employer, and leaving my job, I stayed and stood up for myself, and won in the end.

Sorry, I was more asking about individuals rather than the company itself.

ilovebiology

Captain_Hindsight wrote: »

Sorry, I was more asking about individuals rather than the company itself.

Individuals, yes I did, and gradually they backed off, as I knew the law so well!

ilovebiology

I followed every employment procedure available to me under irish law, and in spite of that, I suffered greatly. Irish law did not protect me enough.

Employment law in this country needs to be updated, strengthened, and the penalties for bullying and harassment, and for HR, and managers not dealing with complaints needs to be made extremely strict for any difference to be made.

pharmaton

ilovebiology wrote: »

Everyone has a choice in a situation like this. Its either leave your job, or stay and fight. Many people leave their jobs, but why should you have to leave your job? Its not you who should have to leave, or be forced out of your job, its HR, and the managers who REFUSE to deal with bullying in the workplace that should be tossed out, not you.

That's the way its done in Ireland, either stay in your job and be forced to put up with it - where nothing is done about it, or leave. I decided to stay and fight, as I refused to be forced out of my job.

If a survey was conducted, how many people would have left their jobs because of bullying? Or a horrible nasty manager?

Why should you have to put up with it, especially these days when having a job is so critical, as there are so very few jobs out there. Employers know this, and as a result have got away with absolute MURDER the past few years.

That's why I posted here on boards, as its an issue that is hugely connected to depression and suicides in Ireland, as like depression and anxiety was like years ago it wasn't discussed. This is an issue that needs to be raised, discussed, and something done about it, as what is going on, and what is covered up is unreal.

I realise this and I do applaud your courage to take it to them. I went through the mill only very recently and as there was no outlet to discuss with anyone I ended up forking out substantial amount for private counselling which tbh really helped me to put priorities in order and gave me the incentive to decide I could probably do better elsewhere. (wasn't easy mind but I was a woman on a mission and completely determined to beat them by going on to do better than them at that point) Nothing like a bit of driven tenacity to help get the job done. I thank them now for helping me get there. [edit: also love the fact that I never have to see their faces again]

Ben Hadad

Looking at it from a purely cold hearted point of view, it would appear you would have been better off having just left your prior employment at the very beginning rather than staying and enduring everything you went through just because you felt your were being maligned and wished to exercise your rights.

The level of distress you endured would for me anyway have lead to me biting my pride and just getting the hell out of dodge. My own personal mental health comes above any other consideration personally.

You mention that other people you worked with could never understand the pain you were feeling on the inside, this is true, and for this reason perhaps a degree of the mistreatment you endured was from an ignorance of your plight and they may not have been meant to inflict pain on you.

If this was the case then perhaps the people you were working with were not always to blame for this mistreatment.

That you went through pain I have no doubt, but that people may have knowingly and willingly went out of there way to mistreat you at all times, I have my doubts, and for this reason I think you should have just left.

ilovebiology

pharmaton wrote: »

I realise this and I do applaud your courage to take it to them. I went through the mill only very recently and as there was no outlet to discuss with anyone I ended up forking out substantial amount for private counselling which tbh really helped me to put priorities in order and gave me the incentive to decide I could probably do better elsewhere. (wasn't easy mind but I was a woman on a mission and completely determined to beat them by going on to do better than them at that point) Nothing like a bit of driven tenacity to help get the job done. I thank them now for helping me get there. [edit: also love the fact that I never have to see their faces again]

Ya counselling helped me too, but there was no way in hell they were forcing me out of my job when I did nothing wrong.

I stayed and fought. I beat them, they didn't beat me. Thankfully, I didn't take my own life, but was so close to it because of what they were doing to me.

This should not be allowed in any workplace, and no one should be pushed into depression, or feeling suicidal because of a nasty employer.

I hope you are doing ok now xx

ilovebiology

Ben Hadad wrote: »

Looking at it from a purely cold hearted point of view, it would appear you would have been better off having just left your prior employment at the very beginning rather than staying and enduring everything you went through just because you felt your were being maligned and wished to exercise your rights.

The level of distress you endured would for me anyway have lead to me biting my pride and just getting the hell out of dodge. My own personal mental health comes above any other consideration personally.

You mention that other people you worked with could never understand the pain you were feeling on the inside, this is true, and for this reason perhaps a degree of the mistreatment you endured was from an ignorance of your plight and they may not have been meant to inflict pain on you.

If this was the case then perhaps the people you were working with were not always to blame for this mistreatment.

That you went through pain I have no doubt, but that people may have knowingly and willingly went out of there way to mistreat you at all times, I have my doubts, and for this reason I think you should have just left.

I was non stop harassed and intimidated at work for a number of years. It was because I was extremely ill, because I wasn't believed I was ill, because I got unions involved, because I refused to leave my job they got worse and really thought I would leave, but I never did, and also because I issued them with legal proceedings for the High Court. That's why I was harassed non stop, not because of anything I said or done at work myself.

pharmaton

ilovebiology wrote: »

Ya counselling helped me too, but there was no way in hell they were forcing me out of my job when I did nothing wrong.

I stayed and fought. I beat them, they didn't beat me. Thankfully, I didn't take my own life, but was so close to it because of what they were doing to me.

This should not be allowed in any workplace, and no one should be pushed into depression, or feeling suicidal because of a nasty employer.

I hope you are doing ok now xx

Much better! Glad you were vindicated too

ilovebiology

pharmaton wrote: »

Much better! Glad you were vindicated too

I'm glad to hear you are ok now. See you should never have had to leave your job if managers, and HR did their job properly instead of ignoring your problems at work.

In this day and age, having a job is like gold dust, and its at times like this that no one should be forced out of their job.

doolox

As a country we need to get as many jobs here as possible. We need to have a pool of reasonably well paid and protected jobs in the public and semi-public sector to act as a counter acting force against predatory and rogue practices and lack of protection in the current workforce both private and public.

I have experienced workplace bullying on a major scale at least twice in my
30 year working life and a few times at a more basic and manageable level on short term jobs in between.

In the first instance I waited until asked to extend my time under the bullys supervision and then looked for alternative supervision arrangements explaining my unwillingness to remain working for the bully. I was fortunate to have support from my colleagues and management in this and the situation was resolved to my satisfaction.

The second instance was not so satisfactory and led to me taking a redundancy package to escape from the oppressive atmosphere I perceived existed in the workplace. After years of counselling I found out more about myself and now know this is a common reaction to sudden and violent emotional attack, a person feels unsafe in a previously considered safe place and seeks to avoid it ever afterwards. I cannot even look at ads for jobs relating to my last job with this wretched company without getting enormous feelings of helplessness, fear and self loathing. I could never work in it or any similar position again.

Thank god I have been able to secure alternative ways of earning a living which suit me better and give me the freedom to pick and choose my clients and avoid the problematic ones. Its been good to say that in 4 yrs I have only come across 2 bullies in that time. I have been able to replace the places where they were with other more amenable clients.

Self employment, where possible allows you a choice of clients and it is possible to avoid the bullies if your product or service is good enough, thankfully mine is. Unlike having 100% of your income and 100% of your work-time being with one "supplier" being self employed means your income is more resilient to being cut suddenly on the whim of one employer who might turn out to be a rogue or a bully.

As I mentioned before in other posts the wages for the work I used to do now stand at 1995 levels. You can bet your sweet life that prices are not at 1995 levels and taxation is way higher than 1995 levels.

Employers can do it because there are plenty of young graduates with low living costs (single, living at home with parents etc..) who are willing to work for the dole plus €50 or €100 not to mention the under 25's who get only €100 pw dole. Older candidates stay on the dole, emigrate or work 2 jobs to stay afloat.

Once married with kids and a working wife you get no dole (JSA) once the benefits run out most people have no choice but to stay in work and take abuse.

The Government should make it a matter of dire national emergency to increase the pool of good quality jobs in order to increase the bargaining, sustaining and defending power and abilities of the national workforce.

ilovebiology

doolox wrote: »

As a country we need to get as many jobs here as possible. We need to have a pool of reasonably well paid and protected jobs in the public and semi-public sector to act as a counter acting force against predatory and rogue practices and lack of protection in the current workforce both private and public.

I have experienced workplace bullying on a major scale at least twice in my
30 year working life and a few times at a more basic and manageable level on short term jobs in between.

In the first instance I waited until asked to extend my time under the bullys supervision and then looked for alternative supervision arrangements explaining my unwillingness to remain working for the bully. I was fortunate to have support from my colleagues and management in this and the situation was resolved to my satisfaction.

The second instance was not so satisfactory and led to me taking a redundancy package to escape from the oppressive atmosphere I perceived existed in the workplace. After years of counselling I found out more about myself and now know this is a common reaction to sudden and violent emotional attack, a person feels unsafe in a previously considered safe place and seeks to avoid it ever afterwards. I cannot even look at ads for jobs relating to my last job with this wretched company without getting enormous feelings of helplessness, fear and self loathing. I could never work in it or any similar position again.

Thank god I have been able to secure alternative ways of earning a living which suit me better and give me the freedom to pick and choose my clients and avoid the problematic ones. Its been good to say that in 4 yrs I have only come across 2 bullies in that time. I have been able to replace the places where they were with other more amenable clients.

Self employment, where possible allows you a choice of clients and it is possible to avoid the bullies if your product or service is good enough, thankfully mine is. Unlike having 100% of your income and 100% of your work-time being with one "supplier" being self employed means your income is more resilient to being cut suddenly on the whim of one employer who might turn out to be a rogue or a bully.

As I mentioned before in other posts the wages for the work I used to do now stand at 1995 levels. You can bet your sweet life that prices are not at 1995 levels and taxation is way higher than 1995 levels.

Employers can do it because there are plenty of young graduates with low living costs (single, living at home with parents etc..) who are willing to work for the dole plus €50 or €100 not to mention the under 25's who get only €100 pw dole. Older candidates stay on the dole, emigrate or work 2 jobs to stay afloat.

Once married with kids and a working wife you get no dole (JSA) once the benefits run out most people have no choice but to stay in work and take abuse.

The Government should make it a matter of dire national emergency to increase the pool of good quality jobs in order to increase the bargaining, sustaining and defending power and abilities of the national workforce.

I agree with alot of what you have said, and thanks for your comments.

I have to say though, I don't know if anyone will agree with me on this one or not, but the government gets alot of oversea's company's to come and set up their businesses in Ireland. They are more than happy to set up in Ireland because of the low corporation taxes.

However, there is a very dark side of them coming into the country. They come in here, and will not here of the workers having a union, and anyone that wants a union will be swiftly victimised, or bullied because of it. They won't allow unions because if unions go into the company's, workers rights are more secure, and they are restrained from getting away with the MURDER they do get away with.

I completely agree the government needs to bring in more adequate proper jobs in Ireland, but at what price to the workers, and the health and well being of the workers?

The unions are another huge problem in Ireland. You go to them for help, and they either help you for a while, and all of a sudden refuse to - even if you know the law just as well if not better than them.

If a union does not help you, or a union rep refuses to help, you have a case of negligence against a union. Unions are as bad as employers for getting away with murder, and they need to be seriously regulated, but when will that happen??

So, if you have a problem at work, it is extremely difficult trying to get help, but one thing for sure is if you learn the law, and your rights, its certainly scares the hell out of an employer.

Work, and working life I strongly believe to be a huge factor in suicides and depression in Ireland. I could have well been another statistic and added to the list of people who have taken their own lives in Ireland, but in all of those cases where people have taken their own lives how many cases have stated WHY they took their own lives?

I guarantee you, if it was researched and surveyed properly work would be a factor in depression, and suicide with people who have died.

Stinicker

I can only sympathize with you and am glad it turned out good in the finish, I was severely bullied as a child in school and as a teenager so know how difficult that would be. I never took the bullying lying down though and I always fought back and ended up knocking one of my bullies unconscious and broke teeth in another lads mouth. I was strong and able to handle myself so that was not an issue, it however cost me my education as I left school and never returned and this has had a devastating effect on my present life due to being unemployed as result.

In the last job I had I was getting pressured too much when I was unable to cope and I just stormed out of the building and never returned and it took all my wits to prevent me from kicking the living daylights out of the jumped jerk whom was bullying me there.

Bullys are scum and should be treated as such and whilst the situation is different for a girl my solution to fight back is pretty much the best approach because you will hold your dignity and self respect and give the bully a most badly needed lesson.

ilovebiology

Fair play to you! I let my legal team, the courts, and the High Court beat the daylights out of my bullies though! My dad and my family knew what I was forced to endure, and my dad supported me non stop, and not to give into my employer and leave my job.

If my dad got a hold of those I worked with, he would end up having to do time in prison as he would have killed them!

Eoin

In case it's of any use to anyone else, depression is considered a disability when it comes to employment. I can't find a link that backs this up, but it's something that our HR department make very clear with the line managers where I work.

The main difference this makes (or should make) is that an employer must make allowances for your condition, where reasonable. This might be reduced hours, different duties etc. This is different to being unable to work because of other illnesses where you can be let go if you're not able to do your job. It's a myth that you can't be let go if you're on certified sick leave.

Of course it means you have to tell them about it, which I imagine a lot of people are understandably hesitant to do.

ilovebiology wrote:

I have to say though, I don't know if anyone will agree with me on this one or not, but the government gets alot of oversea's company's to come and set up their businesses in Ireland. They are more than happy to set up in Ireland because of the low corporation taxes.

However, there is a very dark side of them coming into the country. They come in here, and will not here of the workers having a union, and anyone that wants a union will be swiftly victimised, or bullied because of it. They won't allow unions because if unions go into the company's, workers rights are more secure, and they are restrained from getting away with the MURDER they do get away with.

That's a bit of a sweeping statement - there are some sectors where union membership is low anyway (e.g. IT). Not because they're victimised, but because there's little appetite for them among the staff. I worked in a unionised company for 6 years and I'd be very reluctant to work in one again.

It sounds like you had an awful time of it, but I would disagree that it's the norm.

ilovebiology

Eoin wrote: »

In case it's of any use to anyone else, depression is considered a disability when it comes to employment. I can't find a link that backs this up, but it's something that our HR department make very clear with the line managers where I work.

The main difference this makes (or should make) is that an employer must make allowances for your condition, where reasonable. This might be reduced hours, different duties etc. This is different to being unable to work because of other illnesses where you can be let go if you're not able to do your job. It's a myth that you can't be let go if you're on certified sick leave.

Of course it means you have to tell them about it, which I imagine a lot of people are understandably hesitant to do.





That's a bit of a sweeping statement - there are some sectors where union membership is low anyway (e.g. IT). Not because they're victimised, but because there's little appetite for them among the staff. I worked in a unionised company for 6 years and I'd be very reluctant to work in one again.

It sounds like you had an awful time of it, but I would disagree that it's the norm.

You're right there Eoin! Anxiety and depression are protected as being disabilities under the Employment Equality Act. And as for giving me allowances for it, which my legal team and I requested from them, they made things worse for me, and that is no lie.

Its also possible staff are afraid of joining a union for fear of being victimised because of it. That's what it was like where I used to work. They were too afraid to even mention a union. That how afraid they were of the managers.

Don't think that all I went through was for nothing, I intend to go further with this entire matter, so my case, (where I used every single tiny detailed aspect of irish employment law failed to adequately protect me from what I went through) can be used as an example of how bad employment law is in this country. I really hope something positive can come out of my case for others, so others will not have to go through what I went through.

ilovebiology

Eoin wrote: »

In case it's of any use to anyone else, depression is considered a disability when it comes to employment. I can't find a link that backs this up, but it's something that our HR department make very clear with the line managers where I work.

The main difference this makes (or should make) is that an employer must make allowances for your condition, where reasonable. This might be reduced hours, different duties etc. This is different to being unable to work because of other illnesses where you can be let go if you're not able to do your job. It's a myth that you can't be let go if you're on certified sick leave.

Of course it means you have to tell them about it, which I imagine a lot of people are understandably hesitant to do.



That's a bit of a sweeping statement - there are some sectors where union membership is low anyway (e.g. IT). Not because they're victimised, but because there's little appetite for them among the staff. I worked in a unionised company for 6 years and I'd be very reluctant to work in one again.

It sounds like you had an awful time of it, but I would disagree that it's the norm.

A survey badly needs to be conducted in this country to illustrate the magnitude of this problem in Ireland. It is a huge problem, and has escalated considerably because of the recession, where employees are too afraid to say or do anything, and employers are getting away with more and more murder.

There was a friend I had, who went through something similar to me, and was very suicidal too. Another friend who was unfairly dismissed, and went into a terrible depression. Another friend who was treated terribly for being pregnant, so much so that she left her job. Another friend of mine, who was ridiculed because she was from the country and worked in Dublin. Another friend, who has a very stressful job, the employer won't provide more staff and she is run off her feet doing the job of 2 or 3 people. She has already had funny turns and anxiety attacks because of her job. I could go on, I honestly could.

All of these people all worked in different places, but bullying was a problem for all of them. I have read of many many cases, which were just as bad as mine, and alot worse than mine. Employees have meetings with managers, and you don't know what goes on behind closed doors. The amount of times I was brought to meetings, harassed and pushed to crying for what they were saying, and how I was treated.

It is a huge problem Eoin, I believe so anyways, and an invisible issue that is not spoken about, and not raised. I hope I can do something about it. I'll try anyways.

Eoin

ilovebiology wrote: »

You're right there Eoin! Anxiety and depression are protected as being disabilities under the Employment Equality Act. And as for giving me allowances for it, which my legal team and I requested from them, they made things worse for me, and that is no lie.

It's no wonder why people are reluctant to be open about it when that crap carries on. But as you said earlier, it's really important you know your legal rights, so it's useful info to have either way.

ilovebiology wrote: »

Its also possible staff are afraid of joining a union for fear of being victimised because of it. That's what it was like where I used to work. They were too afraid to even mention a union. That how afraid they were of the managers.

It's definitely possible, but not always the case. A lot of people I know would have absolutely no interest in joining a union. I wouldn't want to work in a place with that mindset again. Aside from getting slightly cheaper car insurance, I didn't find that union membership had a positive impact for me at all. I found their presence negative at times. That said, I didn't work for a nasty employer.

On another note, it really annoys me when people are promoted to manager just because they've been there x amount of years / they're good at specific tasks that have nothing to do with people management without getting the right training. At the very least, you need to be trained on the legal side of employment - but it should be much more than that as well.

ilovebiology

Maybe if I did commit suicide and die because of how terribly I was treated at work that someone might take some notice. But as with so many things in this country of ours, we have to let people become extremely unwell because of their job, or even more people to die of suicide before someone actually takes notice, and says employment law needs to be changed.

ilovebiology

Eoin wrote: »

It's no wonder why people are reluctant to be open about it when that crap carries on. But as you said earlier, it's really important you know your legal rights, so it's useful info to have either way.



It's definitely possible, but not always the case. A lot of people I know would have absolutely no interest in joining a union. I wouldn't want to work in a place with that mindset again. Aside from getting slightly cheaper car insurance, I didn't find that union membership had a positive impact for me at all. I found their presence negative at times. That said, I didn't work for a nasty employer.

On another note, it really annoys me when people are promoted to manager just because they've been there x amount of years / they're good at specific tasks that have nothing to do with people management without getting the right training. At the very least, you need to be trained on the legal side of employment - but it should be much more than that as well.

I agree with you completely Eoin, and I applaud you. There are many supervisors, managers etc, who have worked there for a few years, trained in on the functions of their job, but have not one clue about people management, and not one clue about employment law and procedures.

These problems come from the top. They come from Managing Directors, managers, who hire people for the wrong reasons, and once they become a supervisor or manager the bit of power goes to their head, and they think they can treat people like absolute dirt.

This is where the problems start, problems, and grievances by employees ignored, and as a result a person falls into a severe illness such as anxiety and depression, or possible suicide, as that is what is happening.

My own legal team told me how much of a huge problem this is in Ireland.

ilovebiology

http://www.headline.ie/news/headline/2008/oct/21/workplace-bullying-link-25-suicides/

This is from 2008, and we are now in 2013. This will continue to rise, and get worse, I believe, because nothing is being done about it.

ilovebiology

http://www.buseco.monash.edu.au/mgt/research/working-papers/2008/wp10-08.pdf

Another article I found and in the introduction section it states that up to 100 irish people commit suicide each year because of bullying in the workplace.

This is a report about Australia and Ireland about bullying and harassment in the workplace, and how it is linked to mental health problems up to and including suicide.

This article is from 2008, which given if the statistics in this article are correct, that would mean that approximately 400 people over the past 4 years in Ireland have committed suicide as a direct result of workplace bullying.

That's how serious this issue is. I, myself, could have been on this list from what I went through the past few years, suffering so badly with depression, and feeling extremely suicidal at one stage.

nocoverart

Bullying is so pointless! we all need to smoke spliffs and listen to some Godspeed You! Black Emperor together. The world would be a better place I tell ya.

EDIT: smoking dope and listening to good music in the workplace would = another economic meltdown!

ilovebiology

nocoverart wrote: »

Bullying is so pointless! we all need to smoke spliffs and listen to some Godspeed You! Black Emperor together. The world would be a better place I tell ya.

:pac: Thanks for making me laugh! The only time I laughed and smiled today!

becost

ilovebiology wrote: »

Hi all.

I am feeling particularly low at the moment, and have decided to post here in After Hours, as the thread that Dev posted has been accepted and discussed by alot of people, without them been ridiculed. I think the thread is so important, to openly discuss how people are feeling, and to talk about depression.

I have suffered, and am continuing to suffer from depression. The reason I developed the illness on a very SEVERE level was because of bullying and harassment in the workplace. I suffer with another medical condition where I am sick from time to time (A relapse would just hit me any time it wants, and I would be really sick, or in alot of pain.)

Anyways, I told my employer about this, and got my job. I suffered a terrible relapse a while into my job, and was sneered at, ignored, and not believed I was in so much pain. I was not believed I was sick, and in so much pain because you can't see pain that is inside a person, and therefore alot of the time you are not believed you are sick or in pain. I was in and out of work for a while, and from that point onwards I was treated so badly at work because of it.

My colleagues sneered at me, ignored me, passed upsetting remarks about people being sick. That was bad enough, but my manager had meetings with me, and harassed me so much, she put me crying all the time. I was terrified I was going to lose my job for something that wasn't my fault.

From that point onwards I went through hell and back at work. At first I didn't know what to do, or who to turn to, and then I realised I should not be treated like this because of an illness that's not my fault, and I was perfectly able to work. So I decided to fight back. I bought law books, and learned the law, and used it where I used to work. I got a union involved who were helpful for a while, and then overnight, were of no help. I was subjected to constant intimidation, harassment, my work scrutinised, and made do really terrible work.

I began to drink just to cope with what was going on. I began to see a counsellor, who stopped me from becoming a full blown alcoholic, which I will always be grateful for. I stood up to those who I worked with, but the more I stood up to them the worse they got. There was one manager who spoke to me in such an intimidating way that it was in a way that a man should never speak to a girl, as it was so aggressive and intimidating.

I developed severe anxiety and depression, and not only was it so hard to try and deal with that but I was also fighting a constant battle where I worked. I lost a load of weight (Not that I'm fat in anyway!) but was skin and bones. I suffered a very serious nervous breakdown, and was very suicidal at the time. That time was the worst in my entire life, and trying to fight not taking my own life was extremely difficult. I cried all the time, and was in a dark dark hole. It was the most difficult and terrifying time in my life. I became better, and got back working again. I was again subjected to the same terrible treatment, all because I stood up for my rights, and to try and get some acceptance at work. I became extremely ill again, and was back to square one. Back in hell again.

I got a legal team, and issued my employer with legal proceedings for the High Court, and finally got the help I so desperately needed to fight on my behalf, and to try and get some justice for what I was so wrongly put through. I had absolutely no life. I was very very ill. Unable to eat, scared and afraid every single day I went into work, and on some occasions I was so ill with anxiety that I would be getting sick at work. I had no social life, and spent my time outside of work, trying to recover from what I was going through at work.

I was not paid when I was sick, and therefore became in a severe financial trouble, and unable to see a counsellor for help, and I became worse. Anyways, I went to some other courts and I won my smaller cases I had against them. My knowledge of the law scared the hell out of them, but it didn't stop them from being so evil towards me.

My high court case was settled the first day of the trial at the High Court. I no longer work there, and am at present recovering from the entire thing. When I think back on it, all I can see is blackness, and absolute hell. I sometimes wonder how I survived for so long, just to stand up to them, and not be forced out of my job, but it was pure determination, and fighting for what was right, and fighting for what was wrong too. It took a long time, but I won my case, and got justice for what I was so wrongly, and illegally put through.

There is something that is HUGELY ignored, and seems to be invisible in this country at the moment, and that is the issue of workplace bullying. Every single person I know has been exposed to some form of it in the workplace, and over the past few years, it has excelled at a HUGE rate, especially with the recession, where employers are putting employees through exceptional levels of stress, strain and pressure. Employers refuse to deal with the problems that staff have, and if the issue of bullying in the workplace is raised to a manager it is ignored, and the bullying continues or gets even worse.

There are many people, who if they were in my position, with what I went through, would have 1 million % have left there job, or there is the odd person like myself, so stands up, and says NO I WILL NOT BE TREATED LIKE THIS, AND I WILL NOT BE FORCED OUT OF MY JOB. Employers are getting away with absolute MURDER, and this is an issue I feel that needs to be raised and discussed.

The issue of bullying at school has been brought to the attention through the media, but workplace bullying has not. There are people who are forced to stay in their jobs, and are forced to "Put up with it" because they are afraid of making a complaint, afraid of making it worse, or afraid of losing their job. They have the added pressure of trying to take care of a family, trying to sustain financial pressures like having a mortage, and are put through this, pushed into depression, and possible suicide because it is too much for a person. Again, I feel the issue of workplace bullying needs to be raised, and discussed, as I ask you this: -

How many suicides over the past few years have been because of workplace bullying?


I hope this issue can be discussed as openly as the issue of depression in this forum. Thanks for reading my post.

Hi ilovebiology,

I can identify with many of the points raised in your post although I took a different approach with my particular situation that didn't include legal action but I made sure my immediate supervisors won't have forgotten me in a hurry and will think twice about treating someone else the same way.
If I could give you one bit of advice, try not to think about how individual colleagues treated you. Try to think positive and move on from this situation. People that are in any way different are always going to be harassed at work. There's plenty of support and assistance in this country for people interested in setting up their own business if you have ever considered going in that direction.

Wishing you the best for the future!

ilovebiology

becost wrote: »

Hi ilovebiology,

I can identify with many of the points raised in your post although I took a different approach with my particular situation that didn't include legal action but I made sure my immediate supervisors won't have forgotten me in a hurry and will think twice about treating someone else the same way.
If I could give you one bit of advice, try not to think about how individual colleagues treated you. Try to think positive and move on from this situation. People that are in any way different are always going to be harassed at work. There's plenty of support and assistance in this country for people interested in setting up their own business if you have ever considered going in that direction.

Wishing you the best for the future!

Thank you for your kind words, that's so nice of you. Oh don't worry about my colleagues. When I worked with them, I was strong enough to know it wasn't me with the problem it was them. They were a shower of thick, useless, lazy b*tches. The only thing they were concerned about was talking and b*tching about each other, the moment one of them went out of the office, that's how pathetic and sad they were!

Sounds like you got some juctice of your own, well done to you!

No I won't be setting up my own business, but I intend on doing alot of work on this issue with some important people I know!

Thanks anyways, and thanks for your kindness xx

KyussBishop

That's an awful experience you went through OP, and the determination to stick through that, dragging them through court purely on principle, is very impressive.

I've experienced a similar situation in school, which has affected me up to today, and would be wary of working within a company due to the potential for any kind of bullying, and 'office politics' in general.
It is simply not worth the cost in health, and luckily I'm able to do my work self-employed, and will try to keep it this way permanently.

This is exactly the kind of situation, where allowing one or two bad managers in, gradually pushes away employees who are civil and not bullies, until there is a greater proportion of these 'bullies' managing and running the place (a kind of Greshams dynamic; the bad pushing out the good, until mostly the bad are left).

It's a bit of a tangent, but this I would say, is not only a problem of bullying in workplaces, but also connects to the problem of criminality and fraud in business in general (if management will illegally harass/bully people, it's not much of a step to think that will make illegal fraud more likely to happen as well).

ilovebiology

KyussBishop wrote: »

That's an awful experience you went through OP, and the determination to stick through that, dragging them through court purely on principle, is very impressive.

I've experienced a similar situation in school, which has affected me up to today, and would be wary of working within a company due to the potential for any kind of bullying, and 'office politics' in general.
It is simply not worth the cost in health, and luckily I'm able to do my work self-employed, and will try to keep it this way permanently.

This is exactly the kind of situation, where allowing one or two bad managers in, gradually pushes away employees who are civil and not bullies, until there is a greater proportion of these 'bullies' managing and running the place (a kind of Greshams dynamic; the bad pushing out the good, until mostly the bad are left).

It's a bit of a tangent, but this I would say, is not only a problem of bullying in workplaces, but also connects to the problem of criminality and fraud in business in general (if management will illegally harass/bully people, it's not much of a step to think that will make illegal fraud more likely to happen as well).

Thank you so much for your kind words, and your comments.

I completely agree it is absolute criminal behavior from anyone, and anyone who bullies or harasses another person, should be fired, not suspended, or disciplined but FIRED.

In this day and age, it should not take place in the workplace. But the fact of my case was that I made many complaints, and all the managers stuck together and all became one big set of bullies, up to and including the managing director, who gave orders to those who worked for him! Imagine that!

How many other managers, and managing directors are like this in workplaces? My guess is it is very prevalent in many workplaces. But it needs to be stopped, and these people should be fired and prosecuted, not the innocent victim being put through a terrible time, or feeling so uncomfortable, or put under so much pressure that they have to leave and get another job. Its very very wrong, and with what I went through I will do all I can to see if something can be done about this silent epidemic in Ireland to prevent anyone going through what I went through, and to prevent anyone from being pushed into depression, and feeling suicidal.

There are two articles I submitted in my above posts, which both state that there are 100 people a year in Ireland committing suicide which is directly due to workplace bullying.

Depression and suicide I am so glad to see are finally being talked about, and people opening up and discussing their problems, and it is absolutely fantastic, and the media, and programmes like The Late Late, or Prime Time should be absolutely credited for this.

The reason why so many people have taken their own lives now needs to be discussed, and investigated, and as can be seen from the articles workplace bullying is a HUGE factor with depression and suicide in Ireland.

So by all means, please feel free to talk to me about any problems or upset at work, or discuss it in this thread. I am still suffering with depression, and I know myself that talking, and getting it out of your system helps so much.

mojesius

Thanks for starting this thread and for sharing your experiences. It can't have been easy on you and I'm sorry that you were put through this.

I can somewhat relate to what you brought up in your first post and to what other posters have said with regards to bullying in the workplace - It always tends to be subtle, but over time, boy does it wear you down and begin to consume you. Even when you're not in work, on weekends, on holidays, when you're trying to enjoy yourself.

I was out of work a few years ago for eight weeks or so with back problems. It took months of physio, steroids, acupuncture, specialists etc. to get it back to normal. It still affects me to this day but I know how to manage it more effectively now.

Work were fantastic from the point of view that they looked after me (pay etc.) while I was absent. But when I came back, it was like I was starting in the job all over again, I felt like I had been left behind in the team. I thought initially that this is probably natural after being out for so long and it'll take a few weeks to catch up, but it actually became part of my work identity, if that makes sense, and it has been an extremely difficult stigma to get rid of. I felt like I was overlooked or ignored by a lot of people. Yes, I was quiet when I came back, but I felt guilty, lost and scared for some reason.

Adding to this, my team has quite a few alpha-females and I really want nothing to do with them as my instincts tell me that they are toxic. They remind me of when I was a teenager - I was bullied badly in school to the point where my parents sent me to the UK to get away. These girls on my team would literally stand on your neck to get ahead. The endless b*tching that goes on (i.e the, b*tching about each other, about the management, about someone else who isn't there to defend themselves) creates this extremely tense atmosphere in the team and I dread lunchtimes and rarely attend team drinks because of it. It just brings up a whole host of horrible stuff that I thought I finally left behind when I was 15 and my guts tell me to get away from them because they are eating my self-esteem every single day, self-esteem that took years to build.

My job is also very pressurised, constant targets and deadlines (same as most jobs, I suppose). I also set very high standards for myself so if I don't perform as well as I'd like, it really gets me down. I'm used to doing quite well in most jobs and courses and things like that in my life. I have been doing 'just enough' in this job (mainly because I hate it) and that I feel is really making me feel low as well.

All of this combined has a detrimental toll on my health, both physically and mentally. I started having panic attacks last year. I grind my teeth and sleepwalk. When I go for a few drink, I notice that I'm drinking a lot faster than before. I'm constantly on edge.

I have a great life outside of work, all my family are great, I have lots of friends and a loving boyfriend, but work has been consuming a lot of that joy in my life.

Never thought I'd be as honest on a public forum, but it feels good to write it out I know I should probably quit soon as I don't even like the job...I guess I'm just a bit lost as to what to do next.

ilovebiology

mojesius wrote: »

Thanks for starting this thread and for sharing your experiences. It can't have been easy on you and I'm sorry that you were put through this.

I can somewhat relate to what you brought up in your first post and to what other posters have said with regards to bullying in the workplace - It always tends to be subtle, but over time, boy does it wear you down and begin to consume you. Even when you're not in work, on weekends, on holidays, when you're trying to enjoy yourself.

I was out of work a few years ago for eight weeks or so with back problems. It took months of physio, steroids, acupuncture, specialists etc. to get it back to normal. It still affects me to this day but I know how to manage it more effectively now.

Work were fantastic from the point of view that they looked after me (pay etc.) while I was absent. But when I came back, it was like I was starting in the job all over again, I felt like I had been left behind in the team. I thought initially that this is probably natural after being out for so long and it'll take a few weeks to catch up, but it actually became part of my work identity, if that makes sense, and it has been an extremely difficult stigma to get rid of. I felt like I was overlooked or ignored by a lot of people. Yes, I was quiet when I came back, but I felt guilty, lost and scared for some reason.

Adding to this, my team has quite a few alpha-females and I really want nothing to do with them as my instincts tell me that they are toxic. They remind me of when I was a teenager - I was bullied badly in school to the point where my parents sent me to the UK to get away. These girls on my team would literally stand on your neck to get ahead. The endless b*tching that goes on (i.e the, b*tching about each other, about the management, about someone else who isn't there to defend themselves) creates this extremely tense atmosphere in the team and I dread lunchtimes and rarely attend team drinks because of it. It just brings up a whole host of horrible stuff that I thought I finally left behind when I was 15 and my guts tell me to get away from them because they are eating my self-esteem every single day, self-esteem that took years to build.

My job is also very pressurised, constant targets and deadlines (same as most jobs, I suppose). I also set very high standards for myself so if I don't perform as well as I'd like, it really gets me down. I'm used to doing quite well in most jobs and courses and things like that in my life. I have been doing 'just enough' in this job (mainly because I hate it) and that I feel is really making me feel low as well.

All of this combined has a detrimental toll on my health, both physically and mentally. I started having panic attacks last year. I grind my teeth and sleepwalk. When I go for a few drink, I notice that I'm drinking a lot faster than before. I'm constantly on edge.

I have a great life outside of work, all my family are great, I have lots of friends and a loving boyfriend, but work has been consuming a lot of that joy in my life.

Never thought I'd be as honest on a public forum, but it feels good to write it out I know I should probably quit soon as I don't even like the job...I guess I'm just a bit lost as to what to do next.

A very well done to you on speaking out about your workplace.

I completely understand what you are saying. When I was off sick, and returned to work I was not spoken to, not even hello or nothing. Although the shower who I worked with never even said hello to me on a daily basis anyways. They were a group of girl, and they were toxic, and were exactly like what you described.

There was one in particular, the office bit*h, and all she did was moan, complain, bit*h about her job, and bit*ch about everyone else. The rest of them were alot similar, and I couldn't stand it. You are very right to say that it does create a negative atmosphere in the workplace, and demoralises a person, and you wonder what they are saying about you.

Its people like this that are the problem, not just one person, but a group pf them. They are like this in the workplace, and the absolutely LOVE drama, and causing trouble. I think its because they are either so bored in their jobs, hate their jobs, or just love upsetting other people and to have someone to talk about.

There is a HUGE stigma surrounding a person being sick like yourself, and like me from time to time. You are seen as being different, and I was not believed when I wasn't sick, the way they behaved, reacted, and looked at me, and its awful, and it does affect a person. It chips away at you. I look forward to the day they are sick, and I hope they end up in awful pain, they deserve it!

Its this atmosphere, and tenseness that affects a person, and I can completely relate to how it affects your life outside of work. I spent my evenings recovering, and trying allowing my anxiety levels to undo (Which took a few hours) so I could try and relax for maybe once a day, but then once I was feeling some way relaxed at home, all I could think of is what will greet me when I go into work tomorrow?

This gradually gradually gets on on you, and causes stress, and when stress is not dealt with, or things get worse at work, thats what causes depression, which can then lead onto possible suicide. I'm not saying at all thats what will happen to you, or to alot of people, but thats the cycle of events that lead to my significant ill health.

Workers should be able to approach their manager, without feeling afraid of the outcome, without wondering if the manager might victimise them in some way, or if the office bit*hes get even more nasty. To me, its the office politics, and managers in particular who don't have a clue of the law, and don't even bother to deal with problems, where the well being of the worker get affected, and that is not fair on the innoocent victim like you or me.

Mr Tibbs

ilovebiology wrote: »

Thank you for your kind words, that's so nice of you. Oh don't worry about my colleagues. When I worked with them, I was strong enough to know it wasn't me with the problem it was them. They were a shower of thick, useless, lazy b*tches. The only thing they were concerned about was talking and b*tching about each other, the moment one of them went out of the office, that's how pathetic and sad they were!

Thanks anyways, and thanks for your kindness xx

And here you are today a much stronger kinder person than any of those so called workmates.
The world would be a much kinder place if there was more people like you around.

ilovebiology

Mr Tibbs wrote: »

And here you are today a much stronger kinder person than any of those so called workmates.
The world would be a much kinder place if there was more people like you around.

Oh that made me smile!

Even though I suffer with depression, and have an additional illness, I was the same person at work, I was just hated because of my illnesses, and standing up to them so much.

I was really strong going into work, as it wasn't me with the problem it was who I worked with them. They were a group of pathetic, sad individuals, and when I stood up to them and told them the law, they soon shut up, and put them in their place!

To everyone reading this, knowing the law, and your rights at work makes a huge difference, and stops alot of people being nasty to you.

Thats such a lovely comment. Thank you xx

ecowise2

pharmaton wrote: »

I've been in similar situations but I'd rather just walk away than stay and put up with it, the way I see it is I get stronger and go on to do better things while the ass clowns I leave behind remain ass clowns forever.

It's not always that simple. Some people cannot leave, particularly those with mortgages and kids.

pharmaton

ecowise2 wrote: »

It's not always that simple. Some people cannot leave, particularly those with mortgages and kids.

true. I also have these things. I took a job cleaning so I would continue to have an income and continued to look for work.

ecowise2

ilovebiology wrote: »

I agree with you completely Eoin, and I applaud you. There are many supervisors, managers etc, who have worked there for a few years, trained in on the functions of their job, but have not one clue about people management, and not one clue about employment law and procedures.

These problems come from the top. They come from Managing Directors, managers, who hire people for the wrong reasons, and once they become a supervisor or manager the bit of power goes to their head, and they think they can treat people like absolute dirt.

This is where the problems start, problems, and grievances by employees ignored, and as a result a person falls into a severe illness such as anxiety and depression, or possible suicide, as that is what is happening.

My own legal team told me how much of a huge problem this is in Ireland.

The purpose of workplace bullying is to hide incompetent management, and as incompetent management is rampant in Ireland, so therefore is workplace bullying.

pharmaton

ecowise2 wrote: »

The purpose of workplace bullying is to hide incompetent management, and as incompetent management is rampant in Ireland, so therefore is workplace bullying.

just coz this thread has come around again. I think it's important that we have supportive environments, safe places to vent and people to talk to.
Given my own experiences working in Ireland these are rarely found at places of employment and when situations like bullying occur it's necessary to seek out people who can help either through professional counselling or other personal guidance. This doesn't mean you are or are not going to take the fight to work, it just means you have safely exhausted the feelings and thoughts associated with it and hopefully help put you back into a more constructive and positive place for dealing with bullying when it does occur.
I'm not suggesting workplaces aren't responsible or that bullies get to walk away without dealing with the consequences, I just firmly believe that having assistance with the emotional or psychological impact is paramount to resolving the effects of bullying.

ecowise2

pharmaton wrote: »

just coz this thread has come around again. I think it's important that we have supportive environments, safe places to vent and people to talk to.
Given my own experiences working in Ireland these are rarely found at places of employment and when situations like bullying occur it's necessary to seek out people who can help either through professional counselling or other personal guidance. This doesn't mean you are or are not going to take the fight to work, it just means you have safely exhausted the feelings and thoughts associated with it and hopefully help put you back into a more constructive and positive place for dealing with bullying when it does occur.
I'm not suggesting workplaces aren't responsible or that bullies get to walk away without dealing with the consequences, I just firmly believe that having assistance with the emotional or psychological impact is paramount to resolving the effects of bullying.

Indeed.

Workplace 'Bullying' is a much misunderstood term. Bullying implies schoolyard stuff, whereas in reality it's a lot more sophisticated.

The type of personality who was once attracted to certain Irish institutions in the past to gain power for physical abuse have now moved on to the Irish private and public sector, and onto physiological abuse to get their sick kicks, and cover up their own incompetence.

The present recession is a perfect breeding ground for their fantasies.

This is an excellent site in explaining the psychology behind workplace bullying.

http://www.bullyonline.org/workbully/myths.htm

gozunda

HondaSami wrote: »

Your post is a little confusing to me, you went up against your employer and won, this is good is it not?

Some people use bullying as a reason for their own attitude to management, not saying you are anyone you know did but i have seen people use the bullying line when it was apparent it was them who was out of order.

I have no doubt bullying happens but im not so sure it is as bad as you are saying.

Just as assault / rape / psychological abuze 'happens" and it is not as bad as you are saying????

Get a reality check - BULLYING DESTROYS PEOPLE'S LIVES

Bullying is unfortunately ignored in this country as the crime it actually is - with no criminal offence being committed under the statute book - believe it or not actual physical assault in the 18 century was also seen as a non criminal offence. - that had happily changed. It's about time there is zero tolerance for proven bullying - only then will this rampant behaviour be dealt worth properly.

Mezcita

Sad fact with the OP's situation in mind is that the only time companies sit up and take notice is when they realise that legal action is on the horizon.

I would however disagree with one aspect discussed by the OP. The Employment Appeals Tribunal enables employees to take action against former employers in an environment where legal representation is not required. If the employer is found to have not followed proper procedure regarding matters such as illness and redundancy they tend to get the book thrown at them. You can review previous judgments here:

http://www.eatribunal.ie/en/Determinations.aspx

To the OP, you seem to have shown considerable mental strength in taking on your employer and winning. A lot of people would have just waved the white flag and quit their job. I would focus on that strength in terms of moving on from this.

All the best.

lufties

ilovebiology wrote: »

Hi all.

I am feeling particularly low at the moment, and have decided to post here in After Hours, as the thread that Dev posted has been accepted and discussed by alot of people, without them been ridiculed. I think the thread is so important, to openly discuss how people are feeling, and to talk about depression.

I have suffered, and am continuing to suffer from depression. The reason I developed the illness on a very SEVERE level was because of bullying and harassment in the workplace. I suffer with another medical condition where I am sick from time to time (A relapse would just hit me any time it wants, and I would be really sick, or in alot of pain.)

Anyways, I told my employer about this, and got my job. I suffered a terrible relapse a while into my job, and was sneered at, ignored, and not believed I was in so much pain. I was not believed I was sick, and in so much pain because you can't see pain that is inside a person, and therefore alot of the time you are not believed you are sick or in pain. I was in and out of work for a while, and from that point onwards I was treated so badly at work because of it.

My colleagues sneered at me, ignored me, passed upsetting remarks about people being sick. That was bad enough, but my manager had meetings with me, and harassed me so much, she put me crying all the time. I was terrified I was going to lose my job for something that wasn't my fault.

From that point onwards I went through hell and back at work. At first I didn't know what to do, or who to turn to, and then I realised I should not be treated like this because of an illness that's not my fault, and I was perfectly able to work. So I decided to fight back. I bought law books, and learned the law, and used it where I used to work. I got a union involved who were helpful for a while, and then overnight, were of no help. I was subjected to constant intimidation, harassment, my work scrutinised, and made do really terrible work.

I began to drink just to cope with what was going on. I began to see a counsellor, who stopped me from becoming a full blown alcoholic, which I will always be grateful for. I stood up to those who I worked with, but the more I stood up to them the worse they got. There was one manager who spoke to me in such an intimidating way that it was in a way that a man should never speak to a girl, as it was so aggressive and intimidating.

I developed severe anxiety and depression, and not only was it so hard to try and deal with that but I was also fighting a constant battle where I worked. I lost a load of weight (Not that I'm fat in anyway!) but was skin and bones. I suffered a very serious nervous breakdown, and was very suicidal at the time. That time was the worst in my entire life, and trying to fight not taking my own life was extremely difficult. I cried all the time, and was in a dark dark hole. It was the most difficult and terrifying time in my life. I became better, and got back working again. I was again subjected to the same terrible treatment, all because I stood up for my rights, and to try and get some acceptance at work. I became extremely ill again, and was back to square one. Back in hell again.

I got a legal team, and issued my employer with legal proceedings for the High Court, and finally got the help I so desperately needed to fight on my behalf, and to try and get some justice for what I was so wrongly put through. I had absolutely no life. I was very very ill. Unable to eat, scared and afraid every single day I went into work, and on some occasions I was so ill with anxiety that I would be getting sick at work. I had no social life, and spent my time outside of work, trying to recover from what I was going through at work.

I was not paid when I was sick, and therefore became in a severe financial trouble, and unable to see a counsellor for help, and I became worse. Anyways, I went to some other courts and I won my smaller cases I had against them. My knowledge of the law scared the hell out of them, but it didn't stop them from being so evil towards me.

My high court case was settled the first day of the trial at the High Court. I no longer work there, and am at present recovering from the entire thing. When I think back on it, all I can see is blackness, and absolute hell. I sometimes wonder how I survived for so long, just to stand up to them, and not be forced out of my job, but it was pure determination, and fighting for what was right, and fighting for what was wrong too. It took a long time, but I won my case, and got justice for what I was so wrongly, and illegally put through.

There is something that is HUGELY ignored, and seems to be invisible in this country at the moment, and that is the issue of workplace bullying. Every single person I know has been exposed to some form of it in the workplace, and over the past few years, it has excelled at a HUGE rate, especially with the recession, where employers are putting employees through exceptional levels of stress, strain and pressure. Employers refuse to deal with the problems that staff have, and if the issue of bullying in the workplace is raised to a manager it is ignored, and the bullying continues or gets even worse.

There are many people, who if they were in my position, with what I went through, would have 1 million % have left there job, or there is the odd person like myself, so stands up, and says NO I WILL NOT BE TREATED LIKE THIS, AND I WILL NOT BE FORCED OUT OF MY JOB. Employers are getting away with absolute MURDER, and this is an issue I feel that needs to be raised and discussed.

The issue of bullying at school has been brought to the attention through the media, but workplace bullying has not. There are people who are forced to stay in their jobs, and are forced to "Put up with it" because they are afraid of making a complaint, afraid of making it worse, or afraid of losing their job. They have the added pressure of trying to take care of a family, trying to sustain financial pressures like having a mortage, and are put through this, pushed into depression, and possible suicide because it is too much for a person. Again, I feel the issue of workplace bullying needs to be raised, and discussed, as I ask you this: -

How many suicides over the past few years have been because of workplace bullying?


I hope this issue can be discussed as openly as the issue of depression in this forum. Thanks for reading my post.

Big respect to you OP, I was subject to bullying at work and in my schooldays, so much so that it was one of the factors that made me leave Ireland. It is a lingering trauma that stays with you for years, I can empathise with you. I find, having lived in a few countries, Ireland is particularly bad for bullying and harrasment, which I believe is ingrained in Irish society and comes under the banner of 'having the craic'.

Regarding workplace bullying, I got it physically and mentally, A lot of it came from an a non Irish national which was ironic. Anyway, in the end I just 'went quietly' ,and remember talking to the HR manager 'off the record explaining my scenario but getting no help.

Now 7 years later, I still regret not standing up for myself and taking action, but was too frightened of the consequences.