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Depression and suicides because of bullying at work

ilovebiology

Hi all.

I am feeling particularly low at the moment, and have decided to post here in After Hours, as the thread that Dev posted has been accepted and discussed by alot of people, without them been ridiculed. I think the thread is so important, to openly discuss how people are feeling, and to talk about depression.

I have suffered, and am continuing to suffer from depression. The reason I developed the illness on a very SEVERE level was because of bullying and harassment in the workplace. I suffer with another medical condition where I am sick from time to time (A relapse would just hit me any time it wants, and I would be really sick, or in alot of pain.)

Anyways, I told my employer about this, and got my job. I suffered a terrible relapse a while into my job, and was sneered at, ignored, and not believed I was in so much pain. I was not believed I was sick, and in so much pain because you can't see pain that is inside a person, and therefore alot of the time you are not believed you are sick or in pain. I was in and out of work for a while, and from that point onwards I was treated so badly at work because of it.

My colleagues sneered at me, ignored me, passed upsetting remarks about people being sick. That was bad enough, but my manager had meetings with me, and harassed me so much, she put me crying all the time. I was terrified I was going to lose my job for something that wasn't my fault.

From that point onwards I went through hell and back at work. At first I didn't know what to do, or who to turn to, and then I realised I should not be treated like this because of an illness that's not my fault, and I was perfectly able to work. So I decided to fight back. I bought law books, and learned the law, and used it where I used to work. I got a union involved who were helpful for a while, and then overnight, were of no help. I was subjected to constant intimidation, harassment, my work scrutinised, and made do really terrible work.

I began to drink just to cope with what was going on. I began to see a counsellor, who stopped me from becoming a full blown alcoholic, which I will always be grateful for. I stood up to those who I worked with, but the more I stood up to them the worse they got. There was one manager who spoke to me in such an intimidating way that it was in a way that a man should never speak to a girl, as it was so aggressive and intimidating.

I developed severe anxiety and depression, and not only was it so hard to try and deal with that but I was also fighting a constant battle where I worked. I lost a load of weight (Not that I'm fat in anyway!) but was skin and bones. I suffered a very serious nervous breakdown, and was very suicidal at the time. That time was the worst in my entire life, and trying to fight not taking my own life was extremely difficult. I cried all the time, and was in a dark dark hole. It was the most difficult and terrifying time in my life. I became better, and got back working again. I was again subjected to the same terrible treatment, all because I stood up for my rights, and to try and get some acceptance at work. I became extremely ill again, and was back to square one. Back in hell again.

I got a legal team, and issued my employer with legal proceedings for the High Court, and finally got the help I so desperately needed to fight on my behalf, and to try and get some justice for what I was so wrongly put through. I had absolutely no life. I was very very ill. Unable to eat, scared and afraid every single day I went into work, and on some occasions I was so ill with anxiety that I would be getting sick at work. I had no social life, and spent my time outside of work, trying to recover from what I was going through at work.

I was not paid when I was sick, and therefore became in a severe financial trouble, and unable to see a counsellor for help, and I became worse. Anyways, I went to some other courts and I won my smaller cases I had against them. My knowledge of the law scared the hell out of them, but it didn't stop them from being so evil towards me.

My high court case was settled the first day of the trial at the High Court. I no longer work there, and am at present recovering from the entire thing. When I think back on it, all I can see is blackness, and absolute hell. I sometimes wonder how I survived for so long, just to stand up to them, and not be forced out of my job, but it was pure determination, and fighting for what was right, and fighting for what was wrong too. It took a long time, but I won my case, and got justice for what I was so wrongly, and illegally put through.

There is something that is HUGELY ignored, and seems to be invisible in this country at the moment, and that is the issue of workplace bullying. Every single person I know has been exposed to some form of it in the workplace, and over the past few years, it has excelled at a HUGE rate, especially with the recession, where employers are putting employees through exceptional levels of stress, strain and pressure. Employers refuse to deal with the problems that staff have, and if the issue of bullying in the workplace is raised to a manager it is ignored, and the bullying continues or gets even worse.

There are many people, who if they were in my position, with what I went through, would have 1 million % have left there job, or there is the odd person like myself, so stands up, and says NO I WILL NOT BE TREATED LIKE THIS, AND I WILL NOT BE FORCED OUT OF MY JOB. Employers are getting away with absolute MURDER, and this is an issue I feel that needs to be raised and discussed.

The issue of bullying at school has been brought to the attention through the media, but workplace bullying has not. There are people who are forced to stay in their jobs, and are forced to "Put up with it" because they are afraid of making a complaint, afraid of making it worse, or afraid of losing their job. They have the added pressure of trying to take care of a family, trying to sustain financial pressures like having a mortage, and are put through this, pushed into depression, and possible suicide because it is too much for a person. Again, I feel the issue of workplace bullying needs to be raised, and discussed, as I ask you this: -

How many suicides over the past few years have been because of workplace bullying?

I hope this issue can be discussed as openly as the issue of depression in this forum. Thanks for reading my post.

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ilovebiology

http://www.headline.ie/news/headline/2008/oct/21/workplace-bullying-link-25-suicides/

This is from 2008, and we are now in 2013. This will continue to rise, and get worse, I believe, because nothing is being done about it.

ilovebiology

http://www.buseco.monash.edu.au/mgt/research/working-papers/2008/wp10-08.pdf

Another article I found and in the introduction section it states that up to 100 irish people commit suicide each year because of bullying in the workplace.

This is a report about Australia and Ireland about bullying and harassment in the workplace, and how it is linked to mental health problems up to and including suicide.

This article is from 2008, which given if the statistics in this article are correct, that would mean that approximately 400 people over the past 4 years in Ireland have committed suicide as a direct result of workplace bullying.

That's how serious this issue is. I, myself, could have been on this list from what I went through the past few years, suffering so badly with depression, and feeling extremely suicidal at one stage.

nocoverart

Bullying is so pointless! we all need to smoke spliffs and listen to some Godspeed You! Black Emperor together. The world would be a better place I tell ya.

EDIT: smoking dope and listening to good music in the workplace would = another economic meltdown!

ilovebiology

nocoverart wrote: »

Bullying is so pointless! we all need to smoke spliffs and listen to some Godspeed You! Black Emperor together. The world would be a better place I tell ya.

:pac: Thanks for making me laugh! The only time I laughed and smiled today!

becost

ilovebiology wrote: »

Hi all.

I am feeling particularly low at the moment, and have decided to post here in After Hours, as the thread that Dev posted has been accepted and discussed by alot of people, without them been ridiculed. I think the thread is so important, to openly discuss how people are feeling, and to talk about depression.

I have suffered, and am continuing to suffer from depression. The reason I developed the illness on a very SEVERE level was because of bullying and harassment in the workplace. I suffer with another medical condition where I am sick from time to time (A relapse would just hit me any time it wants, and I would be really sick, or in alot of pain.)

Anyways, I told my employer about this, and got my job. I suffered a terrible relapse a while into my job, and was sneered at, ignored, and not believed I was in so much pain. I was not believed I was sick, and in so much pain because you can't see pain that is inside a person, and therefore alot of the time you are not believed you are sick or in pain. I was in and out of work for a while, and from that point onwards I was treated so badly at work because of it.

My colleagues sneered at me, ignored me, passed upsetting remarks about people being sick. That was bad enough, but my manager had meetings with me, and harassed me so much, she put me crying all the time. I was terrified I was going to lose my job for something that wasn't my fault.

From that point onwards I went through hell and back at work. At first I didn't know what to do, or who to turn to, and then I realised I should not be treated like this because of an illness that's not my fault, and I was perfectly able to work. So I decided to fight back. I bought law books, and learned the law, and used it where I used to work. I got a union involved who were helpful for a while, and then overnight, were of no help. I was subjected to constant intimidation, harassment, my work scrutinised, and made do really terrible work.

I began to drink just to cope with what was going on. I began to see a counsellor, who stopped me from becoming a full blown alcoholic, which I will always be grateful for. I stood up to those who I worked with, but the more I stood up to them the worse they got. There was one manager who spoke to me in such an intimidating way that it was in a way that a man should never speak to a girl, as it was so aggressive and intimidating.

I developed severe anxiety and depression, and not only was it so hard to try and deal with that but I was also fighting a constant battle where I worked. I lost a load of weight (Not that I'm fat in anyway!) but was skin and bones. I suffered a very serious nervous breakdown, and was very suicidal at the time. That time was the worst in my entire life, and trying to fight not taking my own life was extremely difficult. I cried all the time, and was in a dark dark hole. It was the most difficult and terrifying time in my life. I became better, and got back working again. I was again subjected to the same terrible treatment, all because I stood up for my rights, and to try and get some acceptance at work. I became extremely ill again, and was back to square one. Back in hell again.

I got a legal team, and issued my employer with legal proceedings for the High Court, and finally got the help I so desperately needed to fight on my behalf, and to try and get some justice for what I was so wrongly put through. I had absolutely no life. I was very very ill. Unable to eat, scared and afraid every single day I went into work, and on some occasions I was so ill with anxiety that I would be getting sick at work. I had no social life, and spent my time outside of work, trying to recover from what I was going through at work.

I was not paid when I was sick, and therefore became in a severe financial trouble, and unable to see a counsellor for help, and I became worse. Anyways, I went to some other courts and I won my smaller cases I had against them. My knowledge of the law scared the hell out of them, but it didn't stop them from being so evil towards me.

My high court case was settled the first day of the trial at the High Court. I no longer work there, and am at present recovering from the entire thing. When I think back on it, all I can see is blackness, and absolute hell. I sometimes wonder how I survived for so long, just to stand up to them, and not be forced out of my job, but it was pure determination, and fighting for what was right, and fighting for what was wrong too. It took a long time, but I won my case, and got justice for what I was so wrongly, and illegally put through.

There is something that is HUGELY ignored, and seems to be invisible in this country at the moment, and that is the issue of workplace bullying. Every single person I know has been exposed to some form of it in the workplace, and over the past few years, it has excelled at a HUGE rate, especially with the recession, where employers are putting employees through exceptional levels of stress, strain and pressure. Employers refuse to deal with the problems that staff have, and if the issue of bullying in the workplace is raised to a manager it is ignored, and the bullying continues or gets even worse.

There are many people, who if they were in my position, with what I went through, would have 1 million % have left there job, or there is the odd person like myself, so stands up, and says NO I WILL NOT BE TREATED LIKE THIS, AND I WILL NOT BE FORCED OUT OF MY JOB. Employers are getting away with absolute MURDER, and this is an issue I feel that needs to be raised and discussed.

The issue of bullying at school has been brought to the attention through the media, but workplace bullying has not. There are people who are forced to stay in their jobs, and are forced to "Put up with it" because they are afraid of making a complaint, afraid of making it worse, or afraid of losing their job. They have the added pressure of trying to take care of a family, trying to sustain financial pressures like having a mortage, and are put through this, pushed into depression, and possible suicide because it is too much for a person. Again, I feel the issue of workplace bullying needs to be raised, and discussed, as I ask you this: -

How many suicides over the past few years have been because of workplace bullying?

I hope this issue can be discussed as openly as the issue of depression in this forum. Thanks for reading my post.

Hi ilovebiology,

I can identify with many of the points raised in your post although I took a different approach with my particular situation that didn't include legal action but I made sure my immediate supervisors won't have forgotten me in a hurry and will think twice about treating someone else the same way.

If I could give you one bit of advice, try not to think about how individual colleagues treated you. Try to think positive and move on from this situation. People that are in any way different are always going to be harassed at work. There's plenty of support and assistance in this country for people interested in setting up their own business if you have ever considered going in that direction.

Wishing you the best for the future!

ilovebiology

becost wrote: »

Hi ilovebiology,

I can identify with many of the points raised in your post although I took a different approach with my particular situation that didn't include legal action but I made sure my immediate supervisors won't have forgotten me in a hurry and will think twice about treating someone else the same way.
If I could give you one bit of advice, try not to think about how individual colleagues treated you. Try to think positive and move on from this situation. People that are in any way different are always going to be harassed at work. There's plenty of support and assistance in this country for people interested in setting up their own business if you have ever considered going in that direction.

Wishing you the best for the future!

Thank you for your kind words, that's so nice of you. Oh don't worry about my colleagues. When I worked with them, I was strong enough to know it wasn't me with the problem it was them. They were a shower of thick, useless, lazy b*tches. The only thing they were concerned about was talking and b*tching about each other, the moment one of them went out of the office, that's how pathetic and sad they were!

Sounds like you got some juctice of your own, well done to you!

No I won't be setting up my own business, but I intend on doing alot of work on this issue with some important people I know!

Thanks anyways, and thanks for your kindness xx

KyussBishop

That's an awful experience you went through OP, and the determination to stick through that, dragging them through court purely on principle, is very impressive.

I've experienced a similar situation in school, which has affected me up to today, and would be wary of working within a company due to the potential for any kind of bullying, and 'office politics' in general.
It is simply not worth the cost in health, and luckily I'm able to do my work self-employed, and will try to keep it this way permanently.

This is exactly the kind of situation, where allowing one or two bad managers in, gradually pushes away employees who are civil and not bullies, until there is a greater proportion of these 'bullies' managing and running the place (a kind of Greshams dynamic; the bad pushing out the good, until mostly the bad are left).

It's a bit of a tangent, but this I would say, is not only a problem of bullying in workplaces, but also connects to the problem of criminality and fraud in business in general (if management will illegally harass/bully people, it's not much of a step to think that will make illegal fraud more likely to happen as well).

ilovebiology

KyussBishop wrote: »

That's an awful experience you went through OP, and the determination to stick through that, dragging them through court purely on principle, is very impressive.

I've experienced a similar situation in school, which has affected me up to today, and would be wary of working within a company due to the potential for any kind of bullying, and 'office politics' in general.
It is simply not worth the cost in health, and luckily I'm able to do my work self-employed, and will try to keep it this way permanently.

This is exactly the kind of situation, where allowing one or two bad managers in, gradually pushes away employees who are civil and not bullies, until there is a greater proportion of these 'bullies' managing and running the place (a kind of Greshams dynamic; the bad pushing out the good, until mostly the bad are left).

It's a bit of a tangent, but this I would say, is not only a problem of bullying in workplaces, but also connects to the problem of criminality and fraud in business in general (if management will illegally harass/bully people, it's not much of a step to think that will make illegal fraud more likely to happen as well).

Thank you so much for your kind words, and your comments.

I completely agree it is absolute criminal behavior from anyone, and anyone who bullies or harasses another person, should be fired, not suspended, or disciplined but FIRED.

In this day and age, it should not take place in the workplace. But the fact of my case was that I made many complaints, and all the managers stuck together and all became one big set of bullies, up to and including the managing director, who gave orders to those who worked for him! Imagine that!

How many other managers, and managing directors are like this in workplaces? My guess is it is very prevalent in many workplaces. But it needs to be stopped, and these people should be fired and prosecuted, not the innocent victim being put through a terrible time, or feeling so uncomfortable, or put under so much pressure that they have to leave and get another job. Its very very wrong, and with what I went through I will do all I can to see if something can be done about this silent epidemic in Ireland to prevent anyone going through what I went through, and to prevent anyone from being pushed into depression, and feeling suicidal.

There are two articles I submitted in my above posts, which both state that there are 100 people a year in Ireland committing suicide which is directly due to workplace bullying.

Depression and suicide I am so glad to see are finally being talked about, and people opening up and discussing their problems, and it is absolutely fantastic, and the media, and programmes like The Late Late, or Prime Time should be absolutely credited for this.

The reason why so many people have taken their own lives now needs to be discussed, and investigated, and as can be seen from the articles workplace bullying is a HUGE factor with depression and suicide in Ireland.

So by all means, please feel free to talk to me about any problems or upset at work, or discuss it in this thread. I am still suffering with depression, and I know myself that talking, and getting it out of your system helps so much.

mojesius

Thanks for starting this thread and for sharing your experiences. It can't have been easy on you and I'm sorry that you were put through this.

I can somewhat relate to what you brought up in your first post and to what other posters have said with regards to bullying in the workplace - It always tends to be subtle, but over time, boy does it wear you down and begin to consume you. Even when you're not in work, on weekends, on holidays, when you're trying to enjoy yourself.

I was out of work a few years ago for eight weeks or so with back problems. It took months of physio, steroids, acupuncture, specialists etc. to get it back to normal. It still affects me to this day but I know how to manage it more effectively now.

Work were fantastic from the point of view that they looked after me (pay etc.) while I was absent. But when I came back, it was like I was starting in the job all over again, I felt like I had been left behind in the team. I thought initially that this is probably natural after being out for so long and it'll take a few weeks to catch up, but it actually became part of my work identity, if that makes sense, and it has been an extremely difficult stigma to get rid of. I felt like I was overlooked or ignored by a lot of people. Yes, I was quiet when I came back, but I felt guilty, lost and scared for some reason.

Adding to this, my team has quite a few alpha-females and I really want nothing to do with them as my instincts tell me that they are toxic. They remind me of when I was a teenager - I was bullied badly in school to the point where my parents sent me to the UK to get away. These girls on my team would literally stand on your neck to get ahead. The endless b*tching that goes on (i.e the, b*tching about each other, about the management, about someone else who isn't there to defend themselves) creates this extremely tense atmosphere in the team and I dread lunchtimes and rarely attend team drinks because of it. It just brings up a whole host of horrible stuff that I thought I finally left behind when I was 15 and my guts tell me to get away from them because they are eating my self-esteem every single day, self-esteem that took years to build.

My job is also very pressurised, constant targets and deadlines (same as most jobs, I suppose). I also set very high standards for myself so if I don't perform as well as I'd like, it really gets me down. I'm used to doing quite well in most jobs and courses and things like that in my life. I have been doing 'just enough' in this job (mainly because I hate it) and that I feel is really making me feel low as well.

All of this combined has a detrimental toll on my health, both physically and mentally. I started having panic attacks last year. I grind my teeth and sleepwalk. When I go for a few drink, I notice that I'm drinking a lot faster than before. I'm constantly on edge.

I have a great life outside of work, all my family are great, I have lots of friends and a loving boyfriend, but work has been consuming a lot of that joy in my life.

Never thought I'd be as honest on a public forum, but it feels good to write it out

I know I should probably quit soon as I don't even like the job...I guess I'm just a bit lost as to what to do next.

ilovebiology

mojesius wrote: »

Thanks for starting this thread and for sharing your experiences. It can't have been easy on you and I'm sorry that you were put through this.

I can somewhat relate to what you brought up in your first post and to what other posters have said with regards to bullying in the workplace - It always tends to be subtle, but over time, boy does it wear you down and begin to consume you. Even when you're not in work, on weekends, on holidays, when you're trying to enjoy yourself.

I was out of work a few years ago for eight weeks or so with back problems. It took months of physio, steroids, acupuncture, specialists etc. to get it back to normal. It still affects me to this day but I know how to manage it more effectively now.

Work were fantastic from the point of view that they looked after me (pay etc.) while I was absent. But when I came back, it was like I was starting in the job all over again, I felt like I had been left behind in the team. I thought initially that this is probably natural after being out for so long and it'll take a few weeks to catch up, but it actually became part of my work identity, if that makes sense, and it has been an extremely difficult stigma to get rid of. I felt like I was overlooked or ignored by a lot of people. Yes, I was quiet when I came back, but I felt guilty, lost and scared for some reason.

Adding to this, my team has quite a few alpha-females and I really want nothing to do with them as my instincts tell me that they are toxic. They remind me of when I was a teenager - I was bullied badly in school to the point where my parents sent me to the UK to get away. These girls on my team would literally stand on your neck to get ahead. The endless b*tching that goes on (i.e the, b*tching about each other, about the management, about someone else who isn't there to defend themselves) creates this extremely tense atmosphere in the team and I dread lunchtimes and rarely attend team drinks because of it. It just brings up a whole host of horrible stuff that I thought I finally left behind when I was 15 and my guts tell me to get away from them because they are eating my self-esteem every single day, self-esteem that took years to build.

My job is also very pressurised, constant targets and deadlines (same as most jobs, I suppose). I also set very high standards for myself so if I don't perform as well as I'd like, it really gets me down. I'm used to doing quite well in most jobs and courses and things like that in my life. I have been doing 'just enough' in this job (mainly because I hate it) and that I feel is really making me feel low as well.

All of this combined has a detrimental toll on my health, both physically and mentally. I started having panic attacks last year. I grind my teeth and sleepwalk. When I go for a few drink, I notice that I'm drinking a lot faster than before. I'm constantly on edge.

I have a great life outside of work, all my family are great, I have lots of friends and a loving boyfriend, but work has been consuming a lot of that joy in my life.

Never thought I'd be as honest on a public forum, but it feels good to write it out I know I should probably quit soon as I don't even like the job...I guess I'm just a bit lost as to what to do next.

A very well done to you on speaking out about your workplace.

I completely understand what you are saying. When I was off sick, and returned to work I was not spoken to, not even hello or nothing. Although the shower who I worked with never even said hello to me on a daily basis anyways. They were a group of girl, and they were toxic, and were exactly like what you described.

There was one in particular, the office bit*h, and all she did was moan, complain, bit*h about her job, and bit*ch about everyone else. The rest of them were alot similar, and I couldn't stand it. You are very right to say that it does create a negative atmosphere in the workplace, and demoralises a person, and you wonder what they are saying about you.

Its people like this that are the problem, not just one person, but a group pf them. They are like this in the workplace, and the absolutely LOVE drama, and causing trouble. I think its because they are either so bored in their jobs, hate their jobs, or just love upsetting other people and to have someone to talk about.

There is a HUGE stigma surrounding a person being sick like yourself, and like me from time to time. You are seen as being different, and I was not believed when I wasn't sick, the way they behaved, reacted, and looked at me, and its awful, and it does affect a person. It chips away at you. I look forward to the day they are sick, and I hope they end up in awful pain, they deserve it!

Its this atmosphere, and tenseness that affects a person, and I can completely relate to how it affects your life outside of work. I spent my evenings recovering, and trying allowing my anxiety levels to undo (Which took a few hours) so I could try and relax for maybe once a day, but then once I was feeling some way relaxed at home, all I could think of is what will greet me when I go into work tomorrow?

This gradually gradually gets on on you, and causes stress, and when stress is not dealt with, or things get worse at work, thats what causes depression, which can then lead onto possible suicide. I'm not saying at all thats what will happen to you, or to alot of people, but thats the cycle of events that lead to my significant ill health.

Workers should be able to approach their manager, without feeling afraid of the outcome, without wondering if the manager might victimise them in some way, or if the office bit*hes get even more nasty. To me, its the office politics, and managers in particular who don't have a clue of the law, and don't even bother to deal with problems, where the well being of the worker get affected, and that is not fair on the innoocent victim like you or me.

Mr Tibbs

ilovebiology wrote: »

Thank you for your kind words, that's so nice of you. Oh don't worry about my colleagues. When I worked with them, I was strong enough to know it wasn't me with the problem it was them. They were a shower of thick, useless, lazy b*tches. The only thing they were concerned about was talking and b*tching about each other, the moment one of them went out of the office, that's how pathetic and sad they were!

Thanks anyways, and thanks for your kindness xx

And here you are today a much stronger kinder person than any of those so called workmates.
The world would be a much kinder place if there was more people like you around.

ilovebiology

Mr Tibbs wrote: »

And here you are today a much stronger kinder person than any of those so called workmates.
The world would be a much kinder place if there was more people like you around.

Oh that made me smile!

Even though I suffer with depression, and have an additional illness, I was the same person at work, I was just hated because of my illnesses, and standing up to them so much.

I was really strong going into work, as it wasn't me with the problem it was who I worked with them. They were a group of pathetic, sad individuals, and when I stood up to them and told them the law, they soon shut up, and put them in their place!

To everyone reading this, knowing the law, and your rights at work makes a huge difference, and stops alot of people being nasty to you.

Thats such a lovely comment. Thank you

ecowise2

pharmaton wrote: »

I've been in similar situations but I'd rather just walk away than stay and put up with it, the way I see it is I get stronger and go on to do better things while the ass clowns I leave behind remain ass clowns forever.

It's not always that simple. Some people cannot leave, particularly those with mortgages and kids.

pharmaton

ecowise2 wrote: »

It's not always that simple. Some people cannot leave, particularly those with mortgages and kids.

true. I also have these things. I took a job cleaning so I would continue to have an income and continued to look for work.

ecowise2

ilovebiology wrote: »

I agree with you completely Eoin, and I applaud you. There are many supervisors, managers etc, who have worked there for a few years, trained in on the functions of their job, but have not one clue about people management, and not one clue about employment law and procedures.

These problems come from the top. They come from Managing Directors, managers, who hire people for the wrong reasons, and once they become a supervisor or manager the bit of power goes to their head, and they think they can treat people like absolute dirt.

This is where the problems start, problems, and grievances by employees ignored, and as a result a person falls into a severe illness such as anxiety and depression, or possible suicide, as that is what is happening.

My own legal team told me how much of a huge problem this is in Ireland.

The purpose of workplace bullying is to hide incompetent management, and as incompetent management is rampant in Ireland, so therefore is workplace bullying.

pharmaton

ecowise2 wrote: »

The purpose of workplace bullying is to hide incompetent management, and as incompetent management is rampant in Ireland, so therefore is workplace bullying.

just coz this thread has come around again. I think it's important that we have supportive environments, safe places to vent and people to talk to.
Given my own experiences working in Ireland these are rarely found at places of employment and when situations like bullying occur it's necessary to seek out people who can help either through professional counselling or other personal guidance. This doesn't mean you are or are not going to take the fight to work, it just means you have safely exhausted the feelings and thoughts associated with it and hopefully help put you back into a more constructive and positive place for dealing with bullying when it does occur.
I'm not suggesting workplaces aren't responsible or that bullies get to walk away without dealing with the consequences, I just firmly believe that having assistance with the emotional or psychological impact is paramount to resolving the effects of bullying.

ecowise2

pharmaton wrote: »

just coz this thread has come around again. I think it's important that we have supportive environments, safe places to vent and people to talk to.
Given my own experiences working in Ireland these are rarely found at places of employment and when situations like bullying occur it's necessary to seek out people who can help either through professional counselling or other personal guidance. This doesn't mean you are or are not going to take the fight to work, it just means you have safely exhausted the feelings and thoughts associated with it and hopefully help put you back into a more constructive and positive place for dealing with bullying when it does occur.
I'm not suggesting workplaces aren't responsible or that bullies get to walk away without dealing with the consequences, I just firmly believe that having assistance with the emotional or psychological impact is paramount to resolving the effects of bullying.

Indeed.

Workplace 'Bullying' is a much misunderstood term. Bullying implies schoolyard stuff, whereas in reality it's a lot more sophisticated.

The type of personality who was once attracted to certain Irish institutions in the past to gain power for physical abuse have now moved on to the Irish private and public sector, and onto physiological abuse to get their sick kicks, and cover up their own incompetence.

The present recession is a perfect breeding ground for their fantasies.

This is an excellent site in explaining the psychology behind workplace bullying.

http://www.bullyonline.org/workbully/myths.htm

gozunda

HondaSami wrote: »

Your post is a little confusing to me, you went up against your employer and won, this is good is it not?

Some people use bullying as a reason for their own attitude to management, not saying you are anyone you know did but i have seen people use the bullying line when it was apparent it was them who was out of order.

I have no doubt bullying happens but im not so sure it is as bad as you are saying.

Just as assault / rape / psychological abuze 'happens" and it is not as bad as you are saying????

Get a reality check - BULLYING DESTROYS PEOPLE'S LIVES

Bullying is unfortunately ignored in this country as the crime it actually is - with no criminal offence being committed under the statute book - believe it or not actual physical assault in the 18 century was also seen as a non criminal offence. - that had happily changed. It's about time there is zero tolerance for proven bullying - only then will this rampant behaviour be dealt worth properly.

Mezcita

Sad fact with the OP's situation in mind is that the only time companies sit up and take notice is when they realise that legal action is on the horizon.

I would however disagree with one aspect discussed by the OP. The Employment Appeals Tribunal enables employees to take action against former employers in an environment where legal representation is not required. If the employer is found to have not followed proper procedure regarding matters such as illness and redundancy they tend to get the book thrown at them. You can review previous judgments here:

http://www.eatribunal.ie/en/Determinations.aspx

To the OP, you seem to have shown considerable mental strength in taking on your employer and winning. A lot of people would have just waved the white flag and quit their job. I would focus on that strength in terms of moving on from this.

All the best.

lufties

ilovebiology wrote: »

Hi all.

I am feeling particularly low at the moment, and have decided to post here in After Hours, as the thread that Dev posted has been accepted and discussed by alot of people, without them been ridiculed. I think the thread is so important, to openly discuss how people are feeling, and to talk about depression.

I have suffered, and am continuing to suffer from depression. The reason I developed the illness on a very SEVERE level was because of bullying and harassment in the workplace. I suffer with another medical condition where I am sick from time to time (A relapse would just hit me any time it wants, and I would be really sick, or in alot of pain.)

Anyways, I told my employer about this, and got my job. I suffered a terrible relapse a while into my job, and was sneered at, ignored, and not believed I was in so much pain. I was not believed I was sick, and in so much pain because you can't see pain that is inside a person, and therefore alot of the time you are not believed you are sick or in pain. I was in and out of work for a while, and from that point onwards I was treated so badly at work because of it.

My colleagues sneered at me, ignored me, passed upsetting remarks about people being sick. That was bad enough, but my manager had meetings with me, and harassed me so much, she put me crying all the time. I was terrified I was going to lose my job for something that wasn't my fault.

From that point onwards I went through hell and back at work. At first I didn't know what to do, or who to turn to, and then I realised I should not be treated like this because of an illness that's not my fault, and I was perfectly able to work. So I decided to fight back. I bought law books, and learned the law, and used it where I used to work. I got a union involved who were helpful for a while, and then overnight, were of no help. I was subjected to constant intimidation, harassment, my work scrutinised, and made do really terrible work.

I began to drink just to cope with what was going on. I began to see a counsellor, who stopped me from becoming a full blown alcoholic, which I will always be grateful for. I stood up to those who I worked with, but the more I stood up to them the worse they got. There was one manager who spoke to me in such an intimidating way that it was in a way that a man should never speak to a girl, as it was so aggressive and intimidating.

I developed severe anxiety and depression, and not only was it so hard to try and deal with that but I was also fighting a constant battle where I worked. I lost a load of weight (Not that I'm fat in anyway!) but was skin and bones. I suffered a very serious nervous breakdown, and was very suicidal at the time. That time was the worst in my entire life, and trying to fight not taking my own life was extremely difficult. I cried all the time, and was in a dark dark hole. It was the most difficult and terrifying time in my life. I became better, and got back working again. I was again subjected to the same terrible treatment, all because I stood up for my rights, and to try and get some acceptance at work. I became extremely ill again, and was back to square one. Back in hell again.

I got a legal team, and issued my employer with legal proceedings for the High Court, and finally got the help I so desperately needed to fight on my behalf, and to try and get some justice for what I was so wrongly put through. I had absolutely no life. I was very very ill. Unable to eat, scared and afraid every single day I went into work, and on some occasions I was so ill with anxiety that I would be getting sick at work. I had no social life, and spent my time outside of work, trying to recover from what I was going through at work.

I was not paid when I was sick, and therefore became in a severe financial trouble, and unable to see a counsellor for help, and I became worse. Anyways, I went to some other courts and I won my smaller cases I had against them. My knowledge of the law scared the hell out of them, but it didn't stop them from being so evil towards me.

My high court case was settled the first day of the trial at the High Court. I no longer work there, and am at present recovering from the entire thing. When I think back on it, all I can see is blackness, and absolute hell. I sometimes wonder how I survived for so long, just to stand up to them, and not be forced out of my job, but it was pure determination, and fighting for what was right, and fighting for what was wrong too. It took a long time, but I won my case, and got justice for what I was so wrongly, and illegally put through.

There is something that is HUGELY ignored, and seems to be invisible in this country at the moment, and that is the issue of workplace bullying. Every single person I know has been exposed to some form of it in the workplace, and over the past few years, it has excelled at a HUGE rate, especially with the recession, where employers are putting employees through exceptional levels of stress, strain and pressure. Employers refuse to deal with the problems that staff have, and if the issue of bullying in the workplace is raised to a manager it is ignored, and the bullying continues or gets even worse.

There are many people, who if they were in my position, with what I went through, would have 1 million % have left there job, or there is the odd person like myself, so stands up, and says NO I WILL NOT BE TREATED LIKE THIS, AND I WILL NOT BE FORCED OUT OF MY JOB. Employers are getting away with absolute MURDER, and this is an issue I feel that needs to be raised and discussed.

The issue of bullying at school has been brought to the attention through the media, but workplace bullying has not. There are people who are forced to stay in their jobs, and are forced to "Put up with it" because they are afraid of making a complaint, afraid of making it worse, or afraid of losing their job. They have the added pressure of trying to take care of a family, trying to sustain financial pressures like having a mortage, and are put through this, pushed into depression, and possible suicide because it is too much for a person. Again, I feel the issue of workplace bullying needs to be raised, and discussed, as I ask you this: -

How many suicides over the past few years have been because of workplace bullying?

I hope this issue can be discussed as openly as the issue of depression in this forum. Thanks for reading my post.

Big respect to you OP, I was subject to bullying at work and in my schooldays, so much so that it was one of the factors that made me leave Ireland. It is a lingering trauma that stays with you for years, I can empathise with you. I find, having lived in a few countries, Ireland is particularly bad for bullying and harrasment, which I believe is ingrained in Irish society and comes under the banner of 'having the craic'.

Regarding workplace bullying, I got it physically and mentally, A lot of it came from an a non Irish national which was ironic. Anyway, in the end I just 'went quietly' ,and remember talking to the HR manager 'off the record explaining my scenario but getting no help.

Now 7 years later, I still regret not standing up for myself and taking action, but was too frightened of the consequences.

kerry4sam

ilovebiology wrote: »

Hi all.

I am feeling particularly low at the moment, and have decided to post here in After Hours, as the thread that Dev posted has been accepted and discussed by alot of people, without them been ridiculed. I think the thread is so important, to openly discuss how people are feeling, and to talk about depression.

I have suffered, and am continuing to suffer from depression. The reason I developed the illness on a very SEVERE level was because of bullying and harassment in the workplace. I suffer with another medical condition where I am sick from time to time (A relapse would just hit me any time it wants, and I would be really sick, or in alot of pain.)

Anyways, I told my employer about this, and got my job. I suffered a terrible relapse a while into my job, and was sneered at, ignored, and not believed I was in so much pain. I was not believed I was sick, and in so much pain because you can't see pain that is inside a person, and therefore alot of the time you are not believed you are sick or in pain. I was in and out of work for a while, and from that point onwards I was treated so badly at work because of it.

My colleagues sneered at me, ignored me, passed upsetting remarks about people being sick. That was bad enough, but my manager had meetings with me, and harassed me so much, she put me crying all the time. I was terrified I was going to lose my job for something that wasn't my fault.

From that point onwards I went through hell and back at work. At first I didn't know what to do, or who to turn to, and then I realised I should not be treated like this because of an illness that's not my fault, and I was perfectly able to work. So I decided to fight back. I bought law books, and learned the law, and used it where I used to work. I got a union involved who were helpful for a while, and then overnight, were of no help. I was subjected to constant intimidation, harassment, my work scrutinised, and made do really terrible work.

I began to drink just to cope with what was going on. I began to see a counsellor, who stopped me from becoming a full blown alcoholic, which I will always be grateful for. I stood up to those who I worked with, but the more I stood up to them the worse they got. There was one manager who spoke to me in such an intimidating way that it was in a way that a man should never speak to a girl, as it was so aggressive and intimidating.

I developed severe anxiety and depression, and not only was it so hard to try and deal with that but I was also fighting a constant battle where I worked. I lost a load of weight (Not that I'm fat in anyway!) but was skin and bones. I suffered a very serious nervous breakdown, and was very suicidal at the time. That time was the worst in my entire life, and trying to fight not taking my own life was extremely difficult. I cried all the time, and was in a dark dark hole. It was the most difficult and terrifying time in my life. I became better, and got back working again. I was again subjected to the same terrible treatment, all because I stood up for my rights, and to try and get some acceptance at work. I became extremely ill again, and was back to square one. Back in hell again.

I got a legal team, and issued my employer with legal proceedings for the High Court, and finally got the help I so desperately needed to fight on my behalf, and to try and get some justice for what I was so wrongly put through. I had absolutely no life. I was very very ill. Unable to eat, scared and afraid every single day I went into work, and on some occasions I was so ill with anxiety that I would be getting sick at work. I had no social life, and spent my time outside of work, trying to recover from what I was going through at work.

I was not paid when I was sick, and therefore became in a severe financial trouble, and unable to see a counsellor for help, and I became worse. Anyways, I went to some other courts and I won my smaller cases I had against them. My knowledge of the law scared the hell out of them, but it didn't stop them from being so evil towards me.

My high court case was settled the first day of the trial at the High Court. I no longer work there, and am at present recovering from the entire thing. When I think back on it, all I can see is blackness, and absolute hell. I sometimes wonder how I survived for so long, just to stand up to them, and not be forced out of my job, but it was pure determination, and fighting for what was right, and fighting for what was wrong too. It took a long time, but I won my case, and got justice for what I was so wrongly, and illegally put through.

There is something that is HUGELY ignored, and seems to be invisible in this country at the moment, and that is the issue of workplace bullying. Every single person I know has been exposed to some form of it in the workplace, and over the past few years, it has excelled at a HUGE rate, especially with the recession, where employers are putting employees through exceptional levels of stress, strain and pressure. Employers refuse to deal with the problems that staff have, and if the issue of bullying in the workplace is raised to a manager it is ignored, and the bullying continues or gets even worse.

There are many people, who if they were in my position, with what I went through, would have 1 million % have left there job, or there is the odd person like myself, so stands up, and says NO I WILL NOT BE TREATED LIKE THIS, AND I WILL NOT BE FORCED OUT OF MY JOB. Employers are getting away with absolute MURDER, and this is an issue I feel that needs to be raised and discussed.

The issue of bullying at school has been brought to the attention through the media, but workplace bullying has not. There are people who are forced to stay in their jobs, and are forced to "Put up with it" because they are afraid of making a complaint, afraid of making it worse, or afraid of losing their job. They have the added pressure of trying to take care of a family, trying to sustain financial pressures like having a mortage, and are put through this, pushed into depression, and possible suicide because it is too much for a person. Again, I feel the issue of workplace bullying needs to be raised, and discussed, as I ask you this: -

How many suicides over the past few years have been because of workplace bullying?

I hope this issue can be discussed as openly as the issue of depression in this forum. Thanks for reading my post.

gozunda wrote: »

...
BULLYING DESTROYS PEOPLE'S LIVES

Bullying is unfortunately ignored in this country as the crime it actually is - with no criminal offence being committed under the statute book - believe it or not actual physical assault in the 18 century was also seen as a non criminal offence. - that had happily changed. It's about time there is zero tolerance for proven bullying - only then will this rampant behaviour be dealt worth properly.

I had followed this thread from the outset for my own personal reasons that are still on-going too with one particular place of work where I would volunteer!

Just hoping that you are okay ilovebiology. Feel free to post back in here or via pm if you like

Stay strong whatever else you do .

I've taken on hobbies and sporting activities and trying to push myself physically this year while I excelled in University by Graduating with a 1st class honours in Psychology while dealing with everything last-year. Horrible situation for anyone to be in. See my own similar situation right here :mad: Still on-going too but could be interesting times ahead though for me and my own voluntary-work with that organisation.

kepler_johan

Hello ilovebiology. Just wondering if now that you've gone through this whole experience and gained a lot of legal knowledge about workplace rights etc. have you considered using your experience to help others, or to start something along the lines of a helpline? i.e. Turn your horrible past into a positive for people who are dealing with similar problems in their work???
K.

jimgoose

Of all the things on this green Earth, I think the thing I detest most of all is a sneering, snivelling little bully-boy. Unfortunately the problem is exacerbated in these evil days of "You're lucky to have a job!!", etc. Fair moxy, OP, for staying the patient course and getting your due eventually. It must have been horrific, going through that. It's always those who find themselves, for whatever reason, weak and vulnerable that get seventeen shades kicked out of them by various Hard Men(TM).

Ye who be Out There - if you are a bully, the Goose has a message for you: Cool it. :mad:

Siosleis

jimgoose wrote: »

Of all the things on this green Earth, I think the thing I detest most of all is a sneering, snivelling little bully-boy. Unfortunately the problem is exacerbated in these evil days of "You're lucky to have a job!!", etc. Fair moxy, OP, for staying the patient course and getting your due eventually. It must have been horrific, going through that. It's always those who find themselves, for whatever reason, weak and vulnerable that get seventeen shades kicked out of them by various Hard Men(TM).

Ye who be Out There - if you are a bully, the Goose has a message for you: Cool it. :mad:

Try bring a woman being "bullied" by other women.It does not exist when you are over the age of 25 apparently.

jimgoose

Siosleis wrote: »

Try bring a woman being "bullied" by other women.It does not exist when you are over the age of 25 apparently.

I can well imagine. I also imagine it exists at all ages. I am an equal-opportunities detester of bullies, BTW - non-gender specific. :cool:

Siosleis

jimgoose wrote: »

I can well imagine. I also imagine it exists at all ages. I am an equal-opportunities detester of bullies, BTW - non-gender Bitches.Utter bitches.

Ray Palmer

OP a lot of respect for your plight.

In saying that I think to call this an issue of bullying might be over simplistic. You have two serious health issues that make it difficult to work in most places. Not excusing the company's behaviour as you described it but your judgment would seriously be impeded during a depressive episode.

You have an illness that makes you more prone to feeling bullied and has a likely dramatic effect on you. When somebody bullies you it will be increased by your own issues. This is not you as such but your illness.

To people you will appear overly sensitive and the truth is you probably are. It doesn't mean you don't have the right to be treated correctly. The problem is as you know people can't read feelings. You have no idea of the level of the frustration other may feel or their own mental health.

If somebody committed suicide with a history of mental illness as a result of bullying I would be inclined to blame the illness.

I am sure some people will be horrified by my view or for saying these things. To be clear I have had my own mental health issues and have been through similar. Depression will make you overly sensitive and you can't expect the world to adapt around you. You need to learn how to take care of yourself and avoid triggers. For some people that means they are simply unable to work to their full range of abilities.

Bully in the work place is common and should be stamped out but when you have politician and media doing the same thing in public I doubt that will happen.

angeline

Ray Palmer wrote: »

OP a lot of respect for your plight.

In saying that I think to call this an issue of bullying might be over simplistic. You have two serious health issues that make it difficult to work in most places. Not excusing the company's behaviour as you described it but your judgment would seriously be impeded during a depressive episode.

You have an illness that makes you more prone to feeling bullied and has a likely dramatic effect on you. When somebody bullies you it will be increased by your own issues. This is not you as such but your illness.

To people you will appear overly sensitive and the truth is you probably are. It doesn't mean you don't have the right to be treated correctly. The problem is as you know people can't read feelings. You have no idea of the level of the frustration other may feel or their own mental health.

If somebody committed suicide with a history of mental illness as a result of bullying I would be inclined to blame the illness.

I am sure some people will be horrified by my view or for saying these things. To be clear I have had my own mental health issues and have been through similar. Depression will make you overly sensitive and you can't expect the world to adapt around you. You need to learn how to take care of yourself and avoid triggers. For some people that means they are simply unable to work to their full range of abilities.

Bully in the work place is common and should be stamped out but when you have politician and media doing the same thing in public I doubt that will happen.

I totally disagree with this post and find it highly misinformed. So, if someone with a history of depression commits suicide because of bullying, your take on it is to totally dismiss the person's very real experience of bullying, well, because, sure didn't he/she suffer depression. Bullying is very real and exists in most organisations. To suggest that a person who suffers depression should not be taken as seriously with an accusation of bullying compared to someone who has never disclosed depression is very backward in thinking in my view. May I suggest that bullying in itself can actually lead to depression along with many other ailments. Also depression is hugely common in the workplace now.

ugly_mug

Siosleis wrote: »

Try bring a woman being "bullied" by other women.It does not exist when you are over the age of 25 apparently.

try being a male , being bullied by a female superior , talk about emasculating and degrading

Ray Palmer

angeline wrote: »

I totally disagree with this post and find it highly misinformed. So, if someone with a history of depression commits suicide because of bullying, your take on it is to totally dismiss the person's very real experience of bullying, well, because, sure didn't he/she suffer depression. Bullying is very real and exists in most organisations. To suggest that a person who suffers depression should not be taken as seriously with an accusation of bullying compared to someone who has never disclosed depression is very backward in thinking in my view. May I suggest that bullying in itself can actually lead to depression along with many other ailments. Also depression is hugely common in the workplace now.

Maybe if you read what I said you would realize I am extremely well informed. I never said to dismiss or suggest if the person has depression they can't be bullied. Unless you were there you have no idea if the OP's experience is 100% accurate. I am not saying one way or the other just that being depressed will taint a persons view. I can tell you now I know I cannot trust my perception at different times of my life. By it's very nature bullying relies on perception.

I am sure depression can be triggered by bullying and never have suggested it couldn't. The OP is not like that it is a person with two serious health issues. Being aware of that for the OP is very important.

OP
By no means do I wish to offend or belittle your own experience. All your feels and emotions are as valid as anybody else's. I said what I said out of experience and concern it is not clear that mental illness and bullying are not linked. Not everybody with mental illness will be bullied nor people being bullied will become mentally ill should be pointed out.