pure bred or cross bred

charlie10

just pondering alright ,do any lads here get sick of pedigree dogs that dont "do exactly what it says on the pedigree" i have seen a lot of muck around and was just wondering do any of ye ever have a cross bred dog i.e. springer/terrier, obviously some terrier breeds are betters bush dogs and others ground dogs so has anyone crossed an animal with good results for cover hunting and no fancy hand signal ,circus trained clowns .would love to see pics

deerhunter1

charlie10 wrote: »

just pondering alright ,do any lads here get sick of pedigree dogs that dont "do exactly what it says on the pedigree" i have seen a lot of muck around and was just wondering do any of ye ever have a cross bred dog i.e. springer/terrier, obviously some terrier breeds are betters bush dogs and others ground dogs so has anyone crossed an animal with good results for cover hunting and no fancy hand signal ,circus trained clowns .would love to see pics

take a look at the thread here hungarian visla X Pointer,or go too the for sale section,getting very popular X breeds,hardier breed,will never buy full breed again for working

endasmail

IMO there are plenty of dogs out there that are fit for purpose, pedigrees

why mix the bloodlines further when there is no need

charlie10

well deerhunter this is it lad , ive seen dogs with the most impressive paper work and prices in the world and wouldnt go to cover. i have a good springer who is an ignorant so and so but can hunt cover like a hi mac . was thinking of maybe buying a cross bred dog or breeding my own lad back to a good cover bitch of any breed preferablly a terrier

jap gt

friend of mine has a springer x lab, savage drive and good in cover

deerhunter1

endasmail wrote: »

IMO there are plenty of dogs out there that are fit for purpose, pedigrees

why mix the bloodlines further when there is no need

Agree but there is a lot of skulduggery in this country in relation to "Pedigrees"
Unless your trialing/showing dogs most are worth Jack ****

charlie10

i agree and lads selling dogs on the merits of there ancestors for phone number prices , anyone have a hunting dog with terrier breeding in them

shaka

I had a beagle who was never intended as gun dog who turned out pretty well from being out with a springer every weekend, he was a serious dog with great stamina- only downside was he could get distracted by scent of a hare. Friend of a friend asked would I let him cover a springer bitch which I did , I didn't take a pup ( sorry I didn't) and he reckoned he got a cracking dog out of litter.
I have irish water spaniel now who is best fun I've ever had with dog, he is young and they are slow to mature but looking good . Haven't A Gun now but he is very keen to work, covering a bit of everything and when I'm out with him he is looking for the gun if we come across anyone out.

endasmail

deerhunter1 wrote: »

Agree but there is a lot of skulduggery in this country in relation to "Pedigrees"
Unless your trialing/showing dogs most are worth Jack ****

Sometimes its best to look elsewhere for a "pedigree"

many a good breed of dog has been ruined due to crossing with other breeds

charlie10

what u mean look elsewhere?

endasmail

charlie10 wrote: »

what u mean look elsewhere?

If your looking for a well bred dog, with checkable bloodlines, if its a German dog: head for Germany.

shaka

endasmail wrote: »

If your looking for a well bred dog, with checkable bloodlines, if its a German dog: head for Germany.

Not necessarily true , some of the best irish water spaniel lines are in Canada/America particulary Canada where they appreciate the hardiness . When/ if I get a bitch ill be going to England or Wales where I know there are good lines both working and show

dodderangler

Seems crossbreeds are becoming ever more popular now as working dogs. Is it because purebreeds are more expensive to buy than a crossbred gundog? So most are opting for a cheaper dog that'll work just as good?
The likes of sprockers have been around a long time and mixing pointers with other pointers
Labradoodles are also being worked now aswell.
I heard of a lad in scotland who works a Gwp x ess that is supposed to be a pure animal on pointer and heavy cover and is also a dog he works a golden eagle with.
I know in cases where the dog is purebred and has great working lines is expected to be great but is it not also down to how the dog is trained?

Any opinions on that?

TriggerPL

charlie10 wrote: »

well deerhunter this is it lad , ive seen dogs with the most impressive paper work and prices in the world and wouldnt go to cover. i have a good springer who is an ignorant so and so but can hunt cover like a hi mac . was thinking of maybe buying a cross bred dog or breeding my own lad back to a good cover bitch of any breed preferablly a terrier

You say you have a gud hard hitting dog! So they can be got , the problem is ur looking at dogs that are up to date trailing lines where people have breed back to trailing dogs all the time getting smaller and smaller ,

It the grand parents and great grand parents you should be looking at dogs line badger court Druid ! Look him up he was no small dog .

I bought that bitch pup in January taking the knowledge I've build up true reserch and years of experience . And I've found that spaniels with heavy marking first of all are bigger stronger dogs in general and harder hitting to !
A bit head strong but would rather that then a timid yoke !

So I ask ' have you focus to much on trailing dogs from recent trailing lines forgetting the dogs they came from .

You'll cross ur dog with a terrier and you'll have no bird buy the time he get back to ya

Glensman

My EP crossed with an ESS about 14 years ago. The 4 pups were the best gundogs I have ever seen. Destroyed cover, retrieved land and water.

One of the best part was they would hunt for anyone, so the lads that had them used to let friends borrow them for a day's shooting...

223vmax

charlie10 wrote: »

i agree and lads selling dogs on the merits of there ancestors for phone number prices , anyone have a hunting dog with terrier breeding in them

I have an ESS x Fox terrier. Great energy for hunting all day. She has a great nose will hunt any cover and retrieve no problem. Only problem is she can be a little hard mouthed.

charlie10

any pic lad is he good in deep cover

lb1981

Just stick to he hard working lines and the dog should work as good as he is trained ,cross breeds can work fine ,but some terrier mixes will just eat the bird when it is shot if you dont get to it first,droppers have been around for years and work fine,i have seen boxers and staffs trained to flush birds..most lads dont realize a poodle is a hunting dog and are quite commonly used in America they just have been completely turned into show dogs here

dodderangler

http://youtu.be/jLgSsTz9Tig

dodderangler

Also http://youtu.be/PxMWYz5iL7c

charlie10

lb1981 wrote: »

Just stick to he hard working lines and the dog should work as good as he is trained ,cross breeds can work fine ,but some terrier mixes will just eat the bird when it is shot if you dont get to it first,droppers have been around for years and work fine,i have seen boxers and staffs trained to flush birds..most lads dont realize a poodle is a hunting dog and are quite commonly used in America they just have been completely turned into show dogs here

im aware that a terrier mix could eat the bird but just wondering did anyone be lucky enough to have a soft mouthed one

lb1981

I have had just pure terriers that have pined the bird or rabbit i never had a cross myself

TriggerPL

charlie10 wrote: »

im aware that a terrier mix could eat the bird but just wondering did anyone be lucky enough to have a soft mouthed one

Just wondering after preaching spaniel spaniel spaniel for so long that your thinking about crossing it not ?

223vmax

charlie10 wrote: »

any pic lad is he good in deep cover

here you go. Excellent in all kinds of cover.

IMG_0178.jpg

deerhunter1

223vmax wrote: »

here you go. Excellent in all kinds of cover.

IMG_0178.jpg

Jaysus he is a mad looking whooore:eek::D

charlie10

TriggerPL wrote: »

Just wondering after preaching spaniel spaniel spaniel for so long that your thinking about crossing it not ?

and i still preach springer spaniel ,i always want a breed of one wether it be half bred or full bred, half a springer is worth more than a whole breed of any other gun dog :D , i have a full bred springer who if i was to match would have a better chance of winning the lotto but with the way dogs are going im afraid the lotto might be on the cards saturday night.and if i crossed any dog it would be for my benefit and i would not sell the other pups

223vmax

deerhunter1 wrote: »

Jaysus he is a mad looking whooore:eek::D

Dunno if that's a compliment or not!!??

jap gt

charlie10 wrote: »

and i still preach springer spaniel ,i always want a breed of one wether it be half bred or full bred, half a springer is worth more than a whole breed of any other gun dog :D , i have a full bred springer who if i was to match would have a better chance of winning the lotto but with the way dogs are going im afraid the lotto might be on the cards saturday night.and if i crossed any dog it would be for my benefit and i would not sell the other pups

Any pictures of the springer

charlie10

ill try and drum one up

shaka

how ta fec do you add a photo here?

TriggerPL

charlie10 wrote: »

and i still preach springer spaniel ,i always want a breed of one wether it be half bred or full bred, half a springer is worth more than a whole breed of any other gun dog :D , i have a full bred springer who if i was to match would have a better chance of winning the lotto but with the way dogs are going im afraid the lotto might be on the cards saturday night.and if i crossed any dog it would be for my benefit and i would not sell the other pups

Ah see it wouldn but just for ur benefit because what you going to do if ya have a full litter of pups ur going to sell them/ give them away contributing to the problem that ur giving out about !

Same as lads having the best of spaniels only to be told when u ask them that there not registered . The very lads that give out about the state of the spaniel breed are the ones that have or had the best of spaniels and never breed or registered what they had .

Instead of breeding muts , why not focus ur time into getting it right , creating ur own line and try and do something productive with the strong spaniel u have!

charlie10

what does having papers in a dog make a blind bit of notice trigger?if u have pedigreee its the same thing minus one more piece of paper. i dont keep dogs to go round talking about paper work , if the dog can hunt and hunt hard he is a pure springer to me . i hear u on about badgercourt ,badgercourt ,badgercourt, so what? the few dogs ive seen from badgercourt have been afraid of therre own shadow ,i saw a lad that had a pup of ten months old and would piss everywhere if u looked straight at him . having badgercourt 5 generations back doesnt mean a thing in my opinion.now there is a few good dogs from that line but at the end of the day when the bird breaks and the shot goes off ,i dont pull out the paper work and say to the lad next to me "he is a badgercourt dog" and i never said anything about giving pups away or sellling them either...i would do something productive with my spaniel if i could get an honest big woodcock bitch but i cant seem to find her .one or two lads here have respectable bitchs and when the time comes ill be enquiring, anyway this whole thread is only hypitetically speaking

TriggerPL

charlie10 wrote: »

what does having papers in a dog make a blind bit of notice trigger?if u have pedigreee its the same thing minus one more piece of paper. i dont keep dogs to go round talking about paper work , if the dog can hunt and hunt hard he is a pure springer to me . i hear u on about badgercourt ,badgercourt ,badgercourt, so what? the few dogs ive seen from badgercourt have been afraid of therre own shadow ,i saw a lad that had a pup of ten months old and would piss everywhere if u looked straight at him . having badgercourt 5 generations back doesnt mean a thing in my opinion.now there is a few good dogs from that line but at the end of the day when the bird breaks and the shot goes off ,i dont pull out the paper work and say to the lad next to me "he is a badgercourt dog" and i never said anything about giving pups away or sellling them either...i would do something productive with my spaniel if i could get an honest big woodcock bitch but i cant seem to find her .one or two lads here have respectable bitchs and when the time comes ill be enquiring, anyway this whole thread is only hypitetically speaking

I think ur missing the whole point ! U complain u can't find a bitch ! Because every gud dog was breed with bitches that weren't even gud family pets .

And claim to have a spaniel worth breeding from , but yet talk about breeding him with terriers .

You need a starting point " mine was badgercourt " I looked at several bitches before I bought the bitch I have now .

Find a starting point

And as for the dog pissing it self , that can happen with any breed , ud swear that these dogs were creating super breeds of them selves ! U can have the best dog and the best bitch that don't mean your going to have a litter of top pups .

And if ya think I'm so wrong in my opinion of badgercourt why mail me about buying my pup off me a month ago clearly a badgercourt pup !!!

charlie10

i was enquiring about her and like i said not all of them were bad .

secondlly there wasnt a queue of people to buy her either because of where u bought her from , i saw some of the so called cover busters that that person sells, and if that bitch turns out like the bitchs ive seen that he has sold,

best of luck and i am not the only lad that has seen the muck he sells.:D

Vegeta

Stop using text speak.

TriggerPL

charlie10 wrote: »

i was enquiring about her and like i said not all of them were bad and secondlly there wasnt a queue of people to buy her either because of where u bought her from , i saw some of the so called cover busters that that person sells and i can tell u if that bitch turns out like the bitchs ive seen that he has sold best of luck and i am not the only lad that has seen the muck he sells.:D

In case ya didn notice I bought a pup not a working dog ! I know the back round and what i was looking for ! I'm well aware of what comes out of Andrews kennels and u find it very easy for you to comment when ya havnt breed a thing ur self ,

When ya have something worth bragging about ur self then talk about others .

We're all still waiting on pics of the demon ya have !!

It gone to the stage your not even worth replying to , ya take every comment with hostility , and throw the toys out of the pen like a 5 year old .

Best of luck with your search for a cover buster !!

TriggerPL

TriggerPL wrote: »

In case ya didn notice I bought a pup not a working dog ! I know the back round and what i was looking for ! I'm well aware of what comes out of Andrews kennels and u find it very easy for you to comment when ya havnt breed a thing ur self ,

When ya have something worth bragging about ur self then talk about others .

We're all still waiting on pics of the demon ya have !!

It gone to the stage your not even worth replying to , ya take every comment with hostility , and throw the toys out of the pen like a 5 year old .

Best of luck with your search for a cover buster !!

And for your information I had 5 lads alone interested in the pup from boards ! So someone shares my taste in a pup

EPointer=Birdss

charlie10 wrote: »

i was enquiring about her and like i said not all of them were bad .

secondlly there wasnt a queue of people to buy her either because of where u bought her from , i saw some of the so called cover busters that that person sells, and if that bitch turns out like the bitchs ive seen that he has sold,

best of luck and i am not the only lad that has seen the muck he sells.:D

In fairness Charlie if your logic stood up about his spaniels then all Monalue, Castlepride, Sprucehil, Pierglin etc pups aren't worth a ****e cause that's what he he his breeding, buying & selling. No doubt there are duds in circulation but that's a big brush your painting with.
You might actually find the lottery bitch up there. Why not go see. Don't bother with the mutts as if you do breed Trigger has a point you have a litter left over & if your pup turns out good you won't keep the line in any recognized form.

Wouldn't mind seeing a pic of your dog or a video. If he is what you say then you could have a high commodity there for breeding in time...

charlie10

fair enough epointer maybe i am painting them all with the one brush but im very particular when it comes to dogs and whats good in ones eyes is not in mine ,it wasnt all that long ago i was asking u for advice and i appreciated every bit of it and still repect ur opinion its just i have a hatred for lads that breed for money and one man in particular seems to get his hands on young dogs **** them into his kennels and claim they are the bees knees . and another lad from clare who is in to springers labs and setters is a breeding machine and this is why i was THINKING of running a cross bred dog , its not going to effect the springer world in any shape or form ,but its only a thought , now here are the woodcock kings my lad is on right and buddys 7 year old dog on left ,they are bigger than what pic makes them out to be
We're all still waiting on pics of the demon ya have !!

TriggerPL

charlie10 wrote: »

fair enough epointer maybe i am painting them all with the one brush but im very particular when it comes to dogs and whats good in ones eyes is not in mine ,it wasnt all that long ago i was asking u for advice and i appreciated every bit of it and still repect ur opinion its just i have a hatred for lads that breed for money and one man in particular seems to get his hands on young dogs **** them into his kennels and claim they are the bees knees . and another lad from clare who is in to springers labs and setters is a breeding machine and this is why i was THINKING of running a cross bred dog , its not going to effect the springer world in any shape or form ,but its only a thought , now here are the woodcock kings my lad is on right and buddys 7 year old dog on left ,they are bigger than what pic makes them out to be

Can I ask the back round of ur dog with out getting chewed ! Cause I put my 2 spaniels on it that is a badgercourt dog and the spit of my lad .

EPointer=Birdss

The L&W is a fine looking dog.
You should really put him out there as best you can as the breed needs proper dogs. Why not get your own prefix & start up a line. Pity it wasn't a bitch as as the theory goes more of the dam comes through.

charlie10

he is a hacker bred dog ,the hacker is his grandfather. he is the finest springer ive seen going ,he is headless though and will kill himself in the tightest ditch ,i dont want to start my own line , i did want to but got a change of heart ,dont be fooled by that black and white dog he is bridevalley bred and can hit the deepest of cover and a serious woodcock dog, i have a young dog out of the black and white dog who turned out like his mother whicj isnt a bad thing and another lad took a litter brother of his with identical marking to the father and as luck would have it he could run in cover with these two at 8 months old

jap gt

liver and white looks a great dog, how old is he

charlie10

3 year old

TriggerPL

charlie10 wrote: »

he is a hacker bred dog ,the hacker is his grandfather. he is the finest springer ive seen going ,he is headless though and will kill himself in the tightest ditch ,i dont want to start my own line , i did want to but got a change of heart ,dont be fooled by that black and white dog he is bridevalley bred and can hit the deepest of cover and a serious woodcock dog, i have a young dog out of the black and white dog who turned out like his mother whicj isnt a bad thing and another lad took a litter brother of his with identical marking to the father and as luck would have it he could run in cover with these two at 8 months old

Lad most monalue dogs come from badgercourt lines ,

charlie10

LAD i didnt buy him off his paper work ! and badgercourt is 6 generations back and one dog so i wouldnt be putting all his crudentials down to one dog.

snipe02

charlie10 wrote: »

LAD i didnt buy him off his paper work ! and badgercourt is 6 generations back and one dog so i wouldnt be putting all his crudentials down to one dog.

The first 2 generations back the rest is ink lads in all fairness not one of ye mentioned brains a dog can break as many branches as he wants looks and sound great crashing through cover but no good if he hasnt a brain between his ears I personally wouldnt cross breeds if I want a terrier ill get one and visa versa in fairness ive known charlie10s dog since he was a pup and would rate him as being a hard dog in cover with a brain too ill be breeding from him at some stage and would recomend him for stud and think ya would be mad not to line breed down from him with the right few bitches

TriggerPL

It like banging ur head against a a brick wall !! Going by your reckoning it a hacker dog but sure he only in the ped once , and the grand father , most monalue dogs are from badgercourt lines.

U didn buy ur dog from papers but there are the lines that you got , and claim to be happy with .

charlie10

well me telling you he is a hacker dog would give you a better idea of his line as opposed to saying a badgercourt all the time. i stated hacker is his grandfather so you could trace the rest back along.and i didn't state the hacker was the reason for being a good dog either so keep thinkin what you like.he brings his size from his fathers stuff

TriggerPL

charlie10 wrote: »

well me telling you he is a hacker dog would give you a better idea of his line as opposed to saying a badgercourt all the time. i stated hacker is his grandfather so you could trace the rest back along.and i didn't state the hacker was the reason for being a good dog either so keep thinkin what you like.he brings his size from his fathers stuff

Haha well then lad who the daddy ! Course he does I wouldn dout ya at all

jap gt

I dont know about ye lads but i dont rate a dog just because he will tear through cover. To me any dog you send into cover and he tears it apart with no scent is a fool. I would much rather see a dog with a good nose who can follow a scent but has the power then to burst through the thick cover. I have hunted with lads that have dogs that will beat every ditch get no birds and are knackered after 2 hours .
I spent near 2 months looking for the right litter of pups last year i looked at loads. Some with pedigree from the dogs that ye mentioned. I eventually got a dog from the arsehole of kerry. After seeing the parents work for an hour i was sold. She is over a year now and is showing great signs of being a smart strong bitch