Hardly believe this kind of thing is still going on here (Shatter erotica novel...)

hatrickpatrick

...might be banned for being too obscene.

http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/fifty-shades-of-alan-shatter-steamy-novel-by-justice-minister-referred-to-censor-29284409.html

The Herald understands that a complaint about the book’s sex scenes was lodged with the Censorship of Publications Board just weeks ago.

There's a Censorship of Publications Board?! God help us all. I thought I was living in a free country and a democracy, not a medieval dictatorship :mad:

Wonder how long it'll take that that bollocks to be abolished?

Dafuq did I just read?

vicwatson

I think the damn novel is 24 years old too !!!! :eek:

Gatling

Wallace and co must have been that desperate to report a novel from 24 years ago ,

Sex in a book somebody call the Vatican (the spud munchers are getting horny )

The Backwards Man

'She gasped again and as he pulled himself free of her and overflowed on her slender body'

Sounds like he was unblocking a sink.:pac:

ScumLord

Another allegation is the novel advocates the procurement of an abortion or miscarriage, contrary to Irish censorship laws.

This law needs to be enforced more. I've had 34 completely unnecessary abortions after watching TV programs where abortions were mentioned.

Cody Pomeray

hatrickpatrick wrote: »

...might be banned for being too obscene.

http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/fifty-shades-of-alan-shatter-steamy-novel-by-justice-minister-referred-to-censor-29284409.html



There's a Censorship of Publications Board?! God help us all. I thought I was living in a free country and a democracy, not a medieval dictatorship :mad:

Wonder how long it'll take that that bollocks to be abolished?

Don't you think there should be someone screening novels and print media to weed out child erotica, recorded rape, and gruesome violence?

I have no problem with a suitably castrated censorship board remaining in existence.

discus

I was literally gonna step in and say the same.

orestes

Bullsh!t. Anybody who tries to ban or censor a book is a fukkwit, end of story.

kneemos

More Mills and Boon than hardcore sex scenes.

losthorizon

orestes wrote: »

Bullsh!t. Anybody who tries to ban or censor a book is a fukkwit, end of story.

You are on a site where posts are banned and censored constantly. Are the people doing that fukkwits?

If a book promotes Child rape setting out how to go about it, how to stalk children on the internet, groom them etc etc is this not a good time to step in and censor or ban for the public good?

I would say yes.

o1s1n

Cody Pomeray wrote: »

Don't you think there should be someone screening novels and print media to weed out child erotica, recorded rape, and gruesome violence?

I have no problem with a suitably castrated censorship board remaining in existence.

I'm extremely against censorship, of both video and print media. I can't see it serving any purpose in a digital age.

If a crime is being committed in the media (ie - video child porn) then it's clearly illegal and the publisher (if one existed) should be prosecuted by the authorities.

Censoring of literature and film, however disgusting, is ridiculous. What purpose does it serve? To save 'the masses' from the corruption of consuming such media? Even if that were proven to be a cause, they still have a little thing called the internet at their fingertips.

HondaSami

He is very romantic and multi talented, pity he lied about the withdrawing on time.

Yakult

Its not like sex isn't sold all throughout the media anyway ffs.

krudler

hatrickpatrick wrote: »

...might be banned for being too obscene.

http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/fifty-shades-of-alan-shatter-steamy-novel-by-justice-minister-referred-to-censor-29284409.html



There's a Censorship of Publications Board?! God help us all. I thought I was living in a free country and a democracy, not a medieval dictatorship :mad:

Wonder how long it'll take that that bollocks to be abolished?

Eh we have a blasphemy law in this country today. how 21st century is that.

orestes

losthorizon wrote: »

You are on a site where posts are banned and censored constantly. Are the people doing that fukkwits?

Boards isn't a book.

losthorizon wrote: »

If a book promotes Child rape setting out how to go about it, how to stalk children on the internet, groom them etc etc is this not a good time to step in and censor or ban for the public good?

I would say yes.

Have you ever read Lolita? It's about a middle aged man who marries a woman because he is in love with her prepubescent daughter, who he eventually engages in a sexual relationship with. There was murder when it came out and it was banned in loads of places as child pornography. Today it's generally considered a masterpiece and is available in all good bookshops.

o1s1n

Probably should start censoring the bible while we're at it, some depraved stuff in there too. This might as well be in 50 Shades of Grey:

Ezekiel 23:11-21 - "Her sister Oholibah saw this, yet in her lust and prostitution she was more depraved than her sister. She too lusted after the Assyrians—governors and commanders, warriors in full dress, mounted horsemen, all handsome young men. I saw that she too defiled herself; both of them went the same way. But she carried her prostitution still further. She saw men portrayed on a wall, figures of Chaldeans a portrayed in red, with belts around their waists and flowing turbans on their heads; all of them looked like Babylonian chariot officers, natives of Chaldea. b As soon as she saw them, she lusted after them and sent messengers to them in Chaldea. Then the Babylonians came to her, to the bed of love, and in their lust they defiled her. After she had been defiled by them, she turned away from them in disgust. When she carried on her prostitution openly and exposed her nakedness, I turned away from her in disgust, just as I had turned away from her sister. Yet she became more and more promiscuous as she recalled the days of her youth, when she was a prostitute in Egypt. There she lusted after her lovers, whose genitals were like those of donkeys and whose emission was like that of horses. So you longed for the lewdness of your youth, when in Egypt your bosom was caressed and your young breasts fondled."

humberklog

Shatterotica.

losthorizon

Believe me I am against virtually all forms of censorship. But, I think in some cases you have to be careful. Lolita as you rightfully point out is one of the gems of English literature as I'm sure Mr Shatters book is.

I mean would you feel happy if every night RTE started broadcasting 2 hours of racist material for instance. (I know its not a book but we have a Broadcasting authority).

donegal_road

at least they are keeping the press in news stories with their digging up dirt on one another, what exactly have either Wallace or Shatter done since they were elected?

o1s1n

losthorizon wrote: »

Believe me I am against virtually all forms of censorship. But, I think in some cases you have to be careful. Lolita as you rightfully point out is one of the gems of English literature as I'm sure Mr Shatters book is.

I mean would you feel happy if every night RTE started broadcasting 2 hours of racist material for instance. (I know its not a book but we have a Broadcasting authority).

That's not the same thing.

RTE is the national broadcaster, representing the nation - therefore has to have broadcasting standards.

A dirty book written by someone isn't trying to represent anyone, therefore shouldn't have the same level of standards applied.

Don't want to read the dirty book? Great! You don't have to.

HondaSami

donegal_road wrote: »

at least they are keeping the press in news stories with their digging up dirt on one another, what exactly have either Wallace or Shatter done since they were elected?

One of them read a book it seems or the juicy bits anyway.

Cody Pomeray

o1s1n wrote: »

I'm extremely against censorship, of both video and print media. I can't see it serving any purpose in a digital age.

What has the digital age got to do with the question of whether or not we employ a censorship board?

The internet can reduce the efficacy of the work of a censorship board, but it is still an important regulator of material which does not leave a digital fingerprint.

If a crime is being committed in the media (ie - video child porn) then it's clearly illegal and the publisher (if one existed) should be prosecuted by the authorities.

But it won't be clear cut in some cases, and labelled "Hey look over here! this is child erotica!". Who decides if it is suitably obscene? A censor.

Censoring of literature and film, however disgusting, is ridiculous. What purpose does it serve? To save 'the masses' from the corruption of consuming such media?

Partially, perhaps; also to save victims from a potential market.

losthorizon

o1s1n wrote: »

Don't want to read the dirty book? Great! You don't have to.

Thats the thing.

You are getting mixed up. No one is going to ban a dirty book.


Lolita isnt a dirty book.

who_me

This kind of book should be mandatory reading for all us Irish men. If it weren't for porn, I never would have guessed I'm allowed to put my diddly-what in her uppity-dodo.

orestes

losthorizon wrote: »

Believe me I am against virtually all forms of censorship. But, I think in some cases you have to be careful. Lolita as you rightfully point out is one of the gems of English literature as I'm sure Mr Shatters book is.

I mean would you feel happy if every night RTE started broadcasting 2 hours of racist material for instance. (I know its not a book but we have a Broadcasting authority).

RTE are a national state television and radio broadcaster, books aren't. That's like comparing advertising billboards to educational pamphlets.

Books should not be censored, for any reason, including the so-called public good.

o1s1n

Cody Pomeray wrote: »

What has the digital age got to do with the question of whether or not we employ a censorship board?

Censorship boards are there to apply a certain 'standard' or 'moral code' to works. Back when they were first established, this would have prevented the masses from consuming the material - therefore avoiding a 'loss of morals' or whatever else they were afraid of. It acted as a barrier and a moral guide. Illegal material would have to be smuggled in.

Now in the digital age, we can consume literally any media we want at any time from anywhere. Censorship no longer acts as a barrier to stop people viewing the material.

Cody Pomeray wrote: »

The internet can reduce the efficacy of the work of a censorship board, but it is still an important regulator of material which does not leave a digital fingerprint. .

Why? what purpose is it now serving in an age where we can consume any media we want over the internet?

Cody Pomeray wrote: »

But it won't be clear cut in some cases, and labelled "Hey look over here! this is child erotica!". Who decides if it is suitably obscene? A censor.

Partially, perhaps; also to save victims from a potential market.

How are you saving the masses from corruption when they can just go online to get the exact same media? What difference does it make to the consumer that one is digital, one is physical?

Child porn aside, what victims are we talking about in a market based on fiction?

o1s1n

losthorizon wrote: »

Thats the thing.

You are getting mixed up. No one is going to ban a dirty book.


Lolita isnt a dirty book.

What content are you talking about then? Child porn? When have you ever seen child porn submitted to a censorship board in Ireland for classification?

Bannasidhe

If anyone is interested this is the list of banned publications as of Dec 2010

http://www.justice.ie/en/JELR/Register%20of%20Prohibited%20Publications%202010.pdf/Files/Register%20of%20Prohibited%20Publications%202010.pdf

No books are listed (Part I) as being banned purely for being considered 'indecent or obscene'.

Part II however which is books banned because 'Books prohibited on the grounds that they were indecent or obscene and/or that they advocate the procurement of abortion or miscarriage or the use of any method, treatment or appliance for the purpose of such procurement' has 8 books including Abortion: Right or Wrong? published in 1942.

Part III is the 'Alphabetical List of Prohibited Periodical Publications as on 31st December, 2010' and includes Font Page Detective (1939), Health and Efficiency (1933) and Mayfair (1968).

A copy of Health and Efficiency published in 1933 is banned in Ireland...have a think about that.

orestes

losthorizon wrote: »

Thats the thing.

You are getting mixed up. No one is going to ban a dirty book.

Lolita isnt a dirty book.

A middle-aged man having sex with his 12 year old step-daughter? There are plenty of people who would consider that dirty, and it has been banned in plenty of places. It doesn't matter to me if a book is dirty or not, I like plenty of dirty books, just because something is dirty doesn't mean it should be banned.

Gatling

Nobody see the Brooke Shields movie pretty baby regularly shown on sky movies

Bannasidhe

Gatling wrote: »

Nobody see the Brooke Shields movie pretty baby regularly shown on sky movies

Can't have been worse than that 1933 copy of Health and Efficiency as that is still banned.

As a matter of interest - as sky is not an Irish channel is it covered by our censorship laws?

bacon n eggs

People who rape and abuse children or other is going to do so anyhow no mater if it is in a book or not... banning a book is not going to stop that sort of thing from happening.

wow sierra

FFS I read that book when it first came out - I can't believe it is getting publicity now. Nothing especially shocking or memorable about it - from what I remember :rolleyes:

If this controversy means that f**ker makes more money because people buy the thing I will not be happy :mad::mad: I presume it was his wife or his Mammy who reported it in order to get a bit of publicity.

He should concentrate on doing his job for a day or two and maybe listening and taking advice now and again - instead of fighting with everyone and generally acting like an arrogant dictator

GalwayGuy2

Lads, just because someone rights depraved scenes, doesn't make the writer depraved and won't turn the reader towards depravity.

Lando Griffin

Down with this sort of thing.

hatrickpatrick

Cody Pomeray wrote: »

Don't you think there should be someone screening novels and print media to weed out child erotica, recorded rape, and gruesome violence?

I have no problem with a suitably castrated censorship board remaining in existence.

First of all what do you mean by child erotica?
Second of all, what do you mean by "recorded rape" considering we're talking about print media?

JD DABA

orestes wrote: »

Bullsh!t. Anybody who tries to ban or censor a book is a fukkwit, end of story.

hmmm I agree with the sentiment, but what if its something like 'home explosives - how to make basic fertilizer bombs and basic electronic triggers' or 'how to launder money'. 101 ways to defraud aulones etc.

hatrickpatrick

Cody Pomeray wrote: »

But it won't be clear cut in some cases, and labelled "Hey look over here! this is child erotica!". Who decides if it is suitably obscene? A censor.

If it's erotica then whose rights are being infringed by its publication, exactly? The reason child porn is illegal is obviously because in order to produce it you have to commit absolutely horrific crimes against actual children, and by viewing it you are viewing those acts without the consent of the victim (which in this case can't give their consent) but who's rights are infringed by entirely made up and fictional accounts? In fact, could there not be an argument that just as regular porn can cause teenage lads to forsake the idea of getting a girlfriend, fictionalized underage erotica could actually fulfill a couple of pedos enough to make them less likely to actually go and harm a real person?

Personally I don't believe in the concept of "obscenity" in that manner. If no one's rights are being infringed, I'm not comfortable with censorship on purely moral grounds in any form.

orestes

JD DABA wrote: »

hmmm I agree with the sentiment, but what if its something like 'home explosives - how to make basic fertilizer bombs and basic electronic triggers' or 'how to launder money'. 101 ways to defraud aulones etc.

They're easily available, they're books on chemistry, electronics and accountancy. You can get them in any library. People are taught how to do those things in college.

VinLieger

So whens the book burning?

Bannasidhe

VinLieger wrote: »

So whens the book burning?

Ah - put in order to burn these banned books we'd have to have copies of these banned books and we don't cos they're banned.

:pac:

orestes

VinLieger wrote: »

So whens the book burning?

People who ban books are fukkwits, but people who burn books are dangerous.

JD DABA

orestes wrote: »

They're easily available, they're books on chemistry, electronics and accountancy. You can get them in any library. People are taught how to do those things in college.

Yeah but those books are very general, not specific. They teach the theory, not the specific instructions. I can't just open a section on making one.

So you'd have to be quite up on the subject in general.

Imagine a bookshop across from a secondary school selling 'homemade explosives 101'. That wouldn't be on in my humble opinion. Within a week you'll have 20 youngfellas with shrapnel sticking out of their heads.

(down with that sort of thing)

Bannasidhe

JD DABA wrote: »

Yeah but those books are very general, not specific. They teach the theory, not the specific instructions. I can't just open a section on making one.

So you'd have to be quite up on the subject in general.

Imagine a bookshop across from a secondary school selling 'homemade explosives 101'. That wouldn't be on in my humble opinion. Within a week you'll have 20 youngfellas with shrapnel sticking out of their heads.

(down with that sort of thing)

I don't think many of the books dealing with abortion give step by step instructions on how to perform a DIY abortion yet they are banned.

The point here is that these books are banned simply for not being anti-abortion. Plain and simple. Yet I seem to remember a referendum which said that Irish women had a right to information on abortion provision - 13th amendment says 'This subsection shall not limit freedom to obtain or make available, in the State, subject to such conditions as may be laid down by law, information relating to services lawfully available in another state.'

So we have the right to information on the provision of abortions in other countries but not the right to read any arguments in favour of abortion or details of how abortions are carried out (Part II on the list I linked to are banned for 'that they advocate the procurement of abortion or miscarriage or the use of any method, treatment or appliance for the purpose of such procurement').....

orestes

JD DABA wrote: »

Yeah but those books are very general, not specific. They teach the theory, not the specific instructions. I can't just open a section on making one.

So you'd have to be quite up on the subject in general.

Imagine a bookshop across from a secondary school selling 'homemade explosives 101'. That wouldn't be on in my humble opinion. Within a week you'll have 20 youngfellas with shrapnel sticking out of their heads.

(down with that sort of thing)

The only difference between theory and application is actually doing it. If I wanted to learn how to make something go bang I could definitely figure out how to do it using nothing more than certified textbooks, after that it's only a matter of time and determination. That being said, if I read a book on how to fix a car engine that wouldn't make me a mechanic, I'd need an engine to practice on. If someone really wants to know how to do something, they're gonna figure it out, but to do it they need the desire, the knowledge and the tools. Blaming books is a bit of a cop out.

JD DABA

Bannasidhe wrote: »

I don't think many of the books dealing with abortion give step by step instructions on how to perform a DIY abortion yet they are banned.

You haven't been following the conversation, I was referring to someones comment on never banning any book, nothing to do with abortion.

orestes wrote: »

If I wanted to learn how to make something go bang I could definitely figure out how to do it using nothing more than certified textbooks, after that it's only a matter of time and determination.

You might have the intellect and determination to figure it out from general chemistry book, and the motivation to make the effort.

A youngfella who wants to make a quick big bang with some borrowed chemicals from his school for lulz and to impress friends won't - and so won't end up with a nail or ball-baring in his eye.

I should know, I tried and failed and said ah fck this.

Bannasidhe

JD DABA wrote: »

You haven't been following the conversation, I was referring to someones comment on never banning any book, nothing to do with abortion.




You might have the intellect and determination to figure it out from general chemistry book, and the motivation to make the effort.

A youngfella who wants to make a quick big bang with some borrowed chemicals from his school for lulz and to impress friends won't - and so won't end up with a nail or ball-baring in his eye.

I should know, I tried and failed and said ah fck this.

I have been following the thread and I think you are off down some tangent. Shatter's book has been referred because a character in it advocates someone gets an abortion - not blow up a building. If he was talking about blowing up a building no matter how detailed his description it would not be banned under these specific regulations. We don't ban books that detail the activities of serial killers in gruesome details either but that has nothing to do with this particular book being complained or the reasons it could possibly be banned.

orestes

JD DABA wrote: »

You might have the intellect and determination to figure it out from general chemistry book, and the motivation to make the effort.

A youngfella who wants to make a quick big bang with some borrowed chemicals from his school for lulz and to impress friends won't - and so won't end up with a nail or ball-baring in his eye.

I should know, I tried and failed and said ah fck this.

If you had wanted to make a bang (and happened to have the right chemicals) then I can almost guarantee you that the information necessary to make them go bang was available in your local library.

suicide_circus

shatter got me moist

trashcan

Did anyone else shudder when they read the words Shatter erotica novel ? It's just wrong on so many levels . Uuggh.