I got told, "If you want quiet libraries you can go back to the dark ages".

rollokb

On Thursday I was in the Dundalk library studying for my Leaving Cert. Also there were about 20 children at a weekly event called, toddlers morning; and 20 LC students who were being increasingly frustrated by the fact that the library was turning into a playground (The noise was becoming ridiculous).

My friends and I eventually complained and the manager came out, and was furious. She started ranting about, "how libraries are changing. And, if you want quiet libraries you can go back to the dark ages".

The noise levels in the Dundalk library are just ridiculous. I want to make clear that I have nothing against children in libraries; it's good to see children read. However, if you invite parents to bring their children in with noisy electronic toys to have a play group, the management is clearly misunderstanding what a ****ing library is for.

How do we stop this?

Peppa Pig

I think you might be misunderstanding what a library is for. If you want to go back to the days when libraries were quiet then remove all the dvds, magazines,computers and social groups that use this public facility.
Personally I think the way libraries are today are great.
If you were studying for your leaving on a school day morning, why were you not in school? Is that not what they are for?

rollokb

No. A library is a place of public study. Which, of course involve computers, DVD, magazines, and social groups (and should be inclusive of people of all ages). But using a library as a playground, forget it, that's what a community centre is for.

bluefinger

I was in the ILAC library on Thursday, one of the busiest in the country I'd imagine and was amazed at how quiet it was. Libraries can become more modern but that doesn't mean they shouldn't be able cater to people who want to read in a quiet atmosphere.

rollokb

Peppa Pig wrote: »

I think you might be misunderstanding what a library is for. If you want to go back to the days when libraries were quiet then remove all the dvds, magazines,computers and social groups that use this public facility.
Personally I think the way libraries are today are great.
If you were studying for your leaving on a school day morning, why were you not in school? Is that not what they are for?

Don't twist what I'm saying. I never said that libraries shouldn't have a multitude of media. I said they shouldn't be used a play centers.

Also, why is it your business that I wasn't in school? It's better to study independently than to have to contend with messers, and frankly useless teachers.

Peppa Pig

rollokb wrote: »

Also, why is it your business that I wasn't in school? It's better to study independently than to have to contend with messers, and frankly useless teachers.

It's none of my business why you were not in school.

But when you come on to a public forum complaining that the library was noisy with a pre-arranged toddlers morning, which was held during normal school hours, then it's a valid question as to why you chose to study there during school time.
Maybe the library staff would think this was a good time to allow a toddlers playgroup in as there should be no LC students in studying.
Surely a better option is to go to the library in DKIT which is a quiet area for study?

If you can't concentrate due to messers and useless teachers in your school then you should probably address this before complaining about Louth County Council's library policies.

Anyway, your idea of what a library should be used for in the morning is opposite to my view, so I have nothing more to contribute to your discussion. Good luck in the leaving.

Cavehill Red

Peppa Pig wrote: »

Maybe the library staff would think this was a good time to allow a toddlers playgroup in as there should be no LC students in studying.

Then the library staff are tools, because there is NO good time to allow a feckin toddlers playgroup in a library. It's a library. People go there to read and to study.

rollokb

Cavehill Red wrote: »

Then the library staff are tools, because there is NO good time to allow a feckin toddlers playgroup in a library. It's a library. People go there to read and to study.

It was the manager who got in a huff. When I spoke to the librarian I knew, he was in full agreement (He said that he wished the library was a library again), but he also said it was just to get people though the door.

Dr. Nooooo!

Its not a college library.

People and groups use it all year round so the concerns of LC students using for for a few weeks dont really concern me.

The thing is to try and make libraries fun for very young children as this will encourage them to read.
My library has events where kids are read to, storytellers come in etc, I think its great.

Cavehill Red

Dr. Nooooo! wrote: »

Its not a college library.

People and groups use it all year round so the concerns of LC students using for for a few weeks dont really concern me.

The thing is to try and make libraries fun for very young children as this will encourage them to read.
My library has events where kids are read to, storytellers come in etc, I think its great.

Who says that is the 'thing'? We have schools to teach kids to read. Libraries are used by the whole of society, not just mummies looking for somewhere to offload their sprogs for babysitting. Their purpose is to provide access to information and knowledge and that should remain the priority, as it is in the vast majority of libraries. Nothing wrong with the odd event aimed at kids, just as there's nothing wrong with the odd poetry reading or whatever of an evening, but there is no real justification for a library hosting a children's playgroup at any time.

rollokb

Dr. Nooooo! wrote: »

Its not a college library.

People and groups use it all year round so the concerns of LC students using for for a few weeks dont really concern me.

The thing is to try and make libraries fun for very young children as this will encourage them to read.
My library has events where kids are read to, storytellers come in etc, I think its great.

I have tried to use libraries all year round but the noise has always driven me away. I have no problem with designated times where the noise levels may be a bit elevated, children must learn how to read. However, this event as far as I could see had no relation to reading, it was simply a scheme to get stay-at-home mothers in with their children.

ardmacha

I suggest the OP make a written complaint, if necessary in a few weeks . While Libraries are not study areas for LC students, who have schools and homes to go to, they should be orderly places where people can read in peace. Electronic toys are way out of order, just as the older students should not be allowed play noisy video games on computers. THe OP is not entitled to go to playcentre and demand quiet, but can have that expectation in a library. If storytellers are desired let them tell their stories in a room away from the library space.

The manager is not doing her job and the reference to the dark ages is far removed from proper customer service.

s8n

Oh you crazy Louth folk and your libraries - always bantering at each other.

petes

Cavehill Red wrote: »

Who says that is the 'thing'? We have schools to teach kids to read. Libraries are used by the whole of society, not just mummies looking for somewhere to offload their sprogs for babysitting. Their purpose is to provide access to information and knowledge and that should remain the priority, as it is in the vast majority of libraries. Nothing wrong with the odd event aimed at kids, just as there's nothing wrong with the odd poetry reading or whatever of an evening, but there is no real justification for a library hosting a children's playgroup at any time.

Who said the parents were not there? So your babysitting argument is out the window.

We also have schools so that students can go to and study for their leaving cert.

Just as an aside are there no libraries in schools these days?

I can see both sides of this but a leaving cert student complaing about the facilities when they actually should be in school is silly. If that is the case why not just stay at home and study.

rollokb

Students, arguably need libraries the most, especially school students. Like many, I don't have a great place to study at home, it's loud, and sometimes family life is nerve-racking. Also, there is research to suggest that it is the poor who need libraries the most, and by no coincidence desire them to be quiet.

I found the "If you want quiet libraries you can go back to the dark ages", comment ****ing hilarious.

This Salon.com article sums it up http://www.salon.com/2013/01/31/bring_back_shushing_librarians/

Cavehill Red

petes wrote: »

Who said the parents were not there? So your babysitting argument is out the window.

Who said they were there? Argument still in play.

petes wrote: »

We also have schools so that students can go to and study for their leaving cert.
Just as an aside are there no libraries in schools these days?

It is not only leaving cert students who go to libraries to read and learn. In any case, municipal libraries have more expansive facilities than schools do.

petes wrote: »

I can see both sides of this but a leaving cert student complaing about the facilities when they actually should be in school is silly. If that is the case why not just stay at home and study.

Because they may not have tens of thousands of reference books on their shelf? Just as all the adults who use libraries do so because the library has books they don't have at home.

rollokb

petes wrote: »

Who said the parents were not there? So your babysitting argument is out the window.

We also have schools so that students can go to and study for their leaving cert.

Just as an aside are there no libraries in schools these days?

I can see both sides of this but a leaving cert student complaing about the facilities when they actually should be in school is silly. If that is the case why not just stay at home and study.

What are you on about? Are you honestly saying that because school exists, that I shouldn't be studying at a library?

What school are you thinking of that has a stocked library where you can study? Eton?

petes

rollokb wrote: »

What are you on about? Are you honestly saying that because school exists, that I shouldn't be studying at a library?

What school are you thinking of that has a stocked library where you can study? Eton?

Were you not supposed to be at school?

The point is you don't need reference books. All the material is provided for you or am I missing the point of our education system? Yes, a quiet place to study is what you need but don't spout about a stocked library when all the course material has already been give to you.

MarkR

My son visits his local library with the school as part of his curriculum to help him with life skills. Some of the kids are non-verbal. Some have difficulty controlling their voices (special needs class). Libraries are a community asset whose primary function is to lend books. If people choose to study there, good for them, but it's not the sole purpose.

If you require silence to study, go to an environment where you have control. And get off the internet.

So I don't sound like a moaning Michael, good luck with the exams. And the answer is probably c. Or b. Unless it's an essay question.

rollokb

petes wrote: »

Were you not supposed to be at school?

The point is you don't need reference books. All the material is provided for you or am I missing the point of our education system? Yes, a quiet place to study is what you need but don't spout about a stocked library when all the course material has already been give to you.

No, I was not required to be at school. Why would I be? I'm 17, with 3 weeks until my LC. I get far more done studying myself. I know this from experience. Do you expect me to sabotage my education because some somebody on the internet expects me to be at school unable to study?

I never said I needed reference books, when I said stocked, I meant with desks to study on, and internet terminals to look up answers on (I don't bring my phone with me).

Gatling

Op have you thought about getting with other students and writing to the library management ,with some suggestions as to how both students studying for exams and other groups using the library can use the space with out interfering with each other ,ie limit the use of electronic toys and so on ,
And maybe alternative time for noisy and quite time ,
After all being public library the approach maybe be welcomed

rollokb

Gatling wrote: »

Op have you thought about getting with other students and writing to the library management ,with some suggestions as to how both students studying for exams and other groups using the library can use the space with out interfering with each other ,ie limit the use of electronic toys and so on ,
And maybe alternative time for noisy and quite time ,
After all being public library the approach maybe be welcomed

I'm thinking about that. Do you think writing to the council would do anything?

petes

In the interim while you are making a 'complaint', why not walk the twenty minutes to the college and use that library?

Gatling

petes wrote: »

In the interim while you are making a 'complaint', why not walk the twenty minutes to the college and use that library?

Its a public library ,its a community resource all customers have a right to use the space with consideration for all

Gatling

rollokb wrote: »

I'm thinking about that. Do you think writing to the council would do anything?

Yeah write to the council too put forward clear points and arguments and clear suggestions as how students and the play group can use the space together with little disruption to each other ,maybe even ask for a meeting to discuss your idea ,maybe get a teacher to help with the letter

rollokb

Gatling wrote: »

Yeah write to the council too put forward clear points and arguments and clear suggestions as how students and the play group can use the space together with little disruption to each other ,maybe even ask for a meeting to discuss your idea ,maybe get a teacher to help with the letter

I doubt they'd listen to me. It's in their interests to get as many people though their doors as possible, even if it it means destroying the library in the process.

Gatling

You just might be surprised find out who you local councillor is and approach them with your letter even

rollokb

Gatling wrote: »

You just might be surprised find out who you local councillor is and approach them with your letter even

Do you think a Drogheda Co. Councilor would be able to do anything, I have a good relationship with one.

0ph0rce0

Toddler Morning You Say!

If it doesn't go on all day, then go to the library when the group is over in the afternoon.

Your not required in school so you plan to go a bit later.

banbhaaifric

In my daughter's school 6th years finished last week and are now expected to study privately (not at school where supervision has to be provided for any students on the premises) so I'm guessing the op is in a similar situation.

While many of us may have been fortunate to have home environments that allowed us to study, this doesn't seem to apply here (and I'm sorry to hear that op, LC is difficult enough) and he is obviously in need of somewhere to study.

When we say libraries should cater for everyone in society, we should also include those who need the library as a quiet place of study (or sometimes just a quiet place).

I think the librarian behaved very badly and you should absolutely write a letter of complaint. They need to figure out how best to broaden the library's appeal without losing what is at its core, a place for reading and learning. Otherwise what? Video screens with MTV for the teenagers? Screens showing "the game"?

The world is a pretty noisy place these days. We can cope with a few quiet ones surely?

nomoreindie

to the op, is there not a reference room in your local library where you can study in peace?. I used that in my local library when studying for exams

Dermighty

To be fair if you are studying for your leaving cert then you're probably 17 or 18, so nobody cares what you think.

rollokb

Dermighty wrote: »

To be fair if you are studying for your leaving cert then you're probably 17 or 18, so nobody cares what you think.

I could threaten the councilor I'll get my friends to split the vote.

MoeJay

To the OP: the reaction of the manager was not appropriate. You should contact the library/council in writing, because if there is one thing for sure, if you don't, nothing will change.

If you do write, you should not only point out the bad service you received but put forward some kind of suggestion (rather than just a whinge.) For example, a dedicated study area/room for people who do require a quiet area for research and/or study. This is not an unreasonable suggestion...as they say themselves:

"Louth County Library service will ensure that all resources, regardless of format, are effectively managed by library staff. In addition, it supports lifelong learning in our community and caters for the cultural, recreational and information needs of the local population."

[my emphasis]

Obviously the LC should take priority so good luck with that! But don't be shy to take on this issue - there are probably many others who share your concerns!

rollokb

MoeJay wrote: »

To the OP: the reaction of the manager was not appropriate. You should contact the library/council in writing, because if there is one thing for sure, if you don't, nothing will change.

If you do write, you should not only point out the bad service you received but put forward some kind of suggestion (rather than just a whinge.) For example, a dedicated study area/room for people who do require a quiet area for research and/or study. This is not an unreasonable suggestion...as they say themselves:

"Louth County Library service will ensure that all resources, regardless of format, are effectively managed by library staff. In addition, it supports lifelong learning in our community and caters for the cultural, recreational and information needs of the local population."

[my emphasis]

Obviously the LC should take priority so good luck with that! But don't be shy to take on this issue - there are probably many others who share your concerns!

I'd personally like to see some clarification of what recreational means. It's too vague. Many things are recreational, like sport, and evidently childcare. But they don't belong in a library.

ytpe2r5bxkn0c1

After enjoying the library in Dundalk for over 40 years I now get my books and leave as quickly as possible. If it's not preschool kids running wild it's secondary school kids hiding out and making noise. It's no longer a library and more a community centre

purplecow1977

Avah Tall Referee wrote: »

After enjoying the library in Dundalk for over 40 years I now get my books and leave as quickly as possible. If it's not preschool kids running wild it's secondary school kids hiding out and making noise. It's no longer a library and more a community centre

Have you complained? Or at least let it be known that you are unhappy with the facilities? Things don't change unless people request it.

ytpe2r5bxkn0c1

purplecow1977 wrote: »

Have you complained? Or at least let it be known that you are unhappy with the facilities? Things don't change unless people request it.

Of course I have - I'm long enough on this planet to know that! All I get is a shrug and agreement from the staff.

purplecow1977

Avah Tall Referee wrote: »

Of course I have - I'm long enough on this planet to know that! All I get is a shrug and agreement from the staff.

That's not on.

Libraries in my mind ARE meant to be quiet places.

rollokb

@purplecow1977, @Srameen, we should do a petition. Seeing as the sole justification of the management ****ing up the library is getting bodies though the door. We could get 100 signatures, and threaten to cancel the membership if the noise levels are not addressed.

ytpe2r5bxkn0c1

Membership is another important factor. I pay to use the library while those making noise and being a nuisance don't actually have to be members of the library.

Ann22

The reference part upstairs is lovely and peaceful, it closes for lunch though.

AlanG

I think the OP is dead right. I have young kids that I bring to the Library but only to take out books and not for any playgroup. I know many libraries have these sort of groups in separate rooms which I think is fine but it is ridiculous to think a Library can still be called a library if it hosts these groups in the main area.
It sounds like they want to justify the existence of the library and its level of staff by saying that they have X amount of people in each week – even if those people don’t come for the library related facilities.

um7y1h83ge06nx

I'm a bit of a blow-in here, just saw the thread on the Boards main page.

I think the OP has a fair point. If the library wants to have functions like this toddler morning then they should do it but in a separate room to the main library.

It sounds that it was more a playgroup than anything else. Surely there must be other public facilities in the area more appropriate for this like a community centre?

One of the attractions of a library for a lot of people is that it is quiet, which can be relaxing even if you're just reading the newspaper or a novel.

Nesta99

Maybe this has been mentioned as just scanned the thread. The bottom line for Library manager is simply footfall. Each child and a parent is a tick in a book, added up to say 'look how many people have visited the library this month/year etc therefore we have justified the cost of providing the service and our existance - now can we have a bigger budget next year?'
People using the 'services' in public buildings have been counted as visitors to boost figures so at least screaming kids and parents are legitimate visitors

Its not appropriate imo except on designated and limited times that children visit with their schools or groups (just like the swimming pool). The library should be accessible to all but library etiquette should be taught and observed depending on group age of course. By the way there are many more than LC students that would appreciate quiet as they conduct research! and i have cursed the increased noise caused by these seasonal visitors myself ironically.

The reference section is to be the quiet area but is open to the ground floor so a bit of a design flaw so. Cant please everybody but it is a limited building with finite resources to adapt to everyones needs.

To the LC students id suggest using DKIT library even if it is slightly out of the way - far more appropriate for your needs.

Librarian was bang out of order and an email of complaint should be sent to the Director of Services at LouthCoCo, County Manager even, not for the noise but for the lack of manners and understanding, and a suggestion that excessive noise is driving other users away.

Yes a Drogheda counsellor on Louth County Council is entitled to speak in relation to the Louth County Library HQ if they are bothered with the hassle. Seeing if similar issues occur in Drogheda and Ardee and if so there might be a case for going as far as the council chamber...maybe.

frogstar

Drogheda is similar. As it's on one level noise is a big issue ESP when the kids are in.

I'm studying at the moment (mature student part time) and used balbriggan library last week. Great library but it was actually the LC students who were disruptive. If they weren't hogging the desks by not actually being there they were messing, throwing paper at each other. Shouting across the desks. Balbriggan also has split level which is a flaw. Study rooms should be completely separate

I now head into Dublin (an hour from me) to go to my college as they have designated study rooms.

I remember my dad bringing me to libraries when I was young. I'd be terrified of making any sound!