Bus Eireann Strikes

rodento

It been mentioned that Bus Eireann is operating at a loss and thats why cuts are needed, but it raises a question on how do we fund and pay for our Public services, when public services aren't ment to be run for profit, there are ment to be a run as a service

http://www.breakingnews.ie/ireland/bus-eireann-pay-cuts-needed-to-avoid-breach-of-companies-act-593796.html

If you shut down loss making routes, not only would you disproportionately affect the poor but you'd also no longer be running a public service

sellerbarry

Feel sorry for them,but the party is over. They will have to do 39 hours a week now. ..

Farmer Pudsey

CIE group which Bus Eireann is not run at a profit. Last year it got a subvention of 36 million. Bus Eireann lost 11 million last year from what I can see I may be wrong. The subvention is used to cover unprofitable routes. It seems that it is on its commercial routes that it is losing money. The government would be in trouble with the Competition Authority ( then again maybe it would not it likes monolopy's aka TOPAZ) and the EU commission with giving a subsidity to a commercial company.

In reality the CIE group needs massive reorginisation. Subvented bus routes should be put out to tender and competition should be allowed on Dublin Bus routes. Some routes should be grouped and tenders again got to run same.

Dark sun

All the while management sit on there massive 100k plus salary, and don't pay a cent, always falls back on the workers, not to mention these workers already had cost saving cuts last year, now the company want reduce there conditions more.

No help from FG either with their constantly reducing of funding to a national service, if they had their way it would Be all privatised. Leaving some route with no service.Thanks Leo

hmmm

Why do we need a public bus service when private operators are ready and willing to step in? Particularly when the management and staff of these "public services" are quite happy to use the public as pawns when they have a dispute.

BE are given a monopoly on certain routes. If they want to abuse that monopoly, then those routes should be opened up to others. We could have a fleet of private buses getting people too and from work today, instead those people are left scrambling to find some other way to get there.

We're a long way past the 60s and allowing public sector unions hold us to ransom. If the government were any good, the DoT would be issuing emergency licenses today to other operators willing to service the BE routes.

rodento

hmmm wrote: »

Why do we need a public bus service when private operators are ready and willing to step in? Particularly when the management and staff of these "public services" are quite happy to use the public as pawns when they have a dispute.

BE are given a monopoly on certain routes. If they want to abuse that monopoly, then those routes should be opened up to others. We could have a fleet of private buses getting people too and from work today, instead those people are left scrambling to find some other way to get there.

We're a long way past the 60s and allowing public sector unions hold us to ransom. If the government were any good, the DoT would be issuing emergency licenses today to other operators willing to service the BE routes.

Sounds like a case of cutting off your nose to spite your face, the private sector will only cover the profitable routes... What will happen the other routes and the people they serve.

Privitisation is not the answer, look at waste collection... The private operators only collect waste from paying customers, ever wondered what happens the the rest of the waste

http://www.thejournal.ie/blog-shines-spotlight-on-dublin-citys-illegal-dumping-problem-864699-Apr2013/

They have also let staff go and replaced they with free job bridge staff

http://www.kildare-nationalist.ie/2013/04/24/abuse-of-job-bridge-internship-scheme-will-lead-to-ban/

hmmm

rodento wrote: »

Sounds like a case of cutting off your nose to spite your face, the private sector will only cover the profitable routes... What will happen the other routes and the people they serve.aff

The same as Bus Eireann - the taxpayer pays a subvention for the unprofitable routes. Don't try and pretend that BE are running unprofitable routes out of love for the country.

Privitisation is not the answer, look at waste collection... The private operators only collect waste from paying customers, ever wondered what happens the the rest of the waste

Waste is a great example, thanks for pointing it out. My bin company collect my waste on time, even on bank holidays. I didn't like my previous waste provider so I switched to an alternative overnight. Much better setup than previously when I had to take it or leave it with the monopoly "public sector" waste collection.

Farmer Pudsey

rodento wrote: »

Sounds like a case of cutting off your nose to spite your face, the private sector will only cover the profitable routes... What will happen the other routes and the people they serve.

Privitisation is not the answer, look at waste collection... The private operators only collect waste from paying customers, ever wondered what happens the the rest of the waste

http://www.thejournal.ie/blog-shines-spotlight-on-dublin-citys-illegal-dumping-problem-864699-Apr2013/

They have also let staff go and replaced they with free job bridge staff

http://www.kildare-nationalist.ie/2013/04/24/abuse-of-job-bridge-internship-scheme-will-lead-to-ban/

Tendering for routes prevents this, You have to tender to provide services on loss making routes, which often can be turned around by more suitable timing of busses and improvement of services. This also set prices to prevent monolopy pricing. Or else you tender for unprofitable routes and let mulitiple suppliers complete on profitable routes.

If anything competition on inter city and major Urban routes has shown us that this is possible. The Bin service is starting to sort itself out. My present provider gets the boot in four months time as method of service is not acceptable. Will change to another provider in September.

Job Bridge is a poor policy it is ok in certain sectors however it use in low skill work area's should be stopped as it is an abuse of workers

Sierra Oscar

hmmm wrote: »

Why do we need a public bus service when private operators are ready and willing to step in? Particularly when the management and staff of these "public services" are quite happy to use the public as pawns when they have a dispute.

There were no private operators willing to operate on the rural routes around my homeplace this morning. They may have no problem operating on the cash cow routes, but they are less eager to operate on the less profitable routes.

A subvention will still be needed to promote less profitable routes even if Bus Éireann go out of business. Anyone who thinks otherwise is misinformed.

hmmm

Sierra Oscar wrote: »

There were no private operators willing to operate on the rural routes around my homeplace this morning. They may have no problem operating on the cash cow routes, but they are less eager to operate on the less profitable routes.

Of course private operators are going to operate the most profitable routes first - that's the same as BE. The difference is that BE receive a subvention for the less profitable routes. Make that subvention available to all operators.

shaileshbk

Is this strike only for one day (Sunday) or will be continued until resolution?

donalg1

Most Governments operate an Allocation Role in that they provide services to the public that are needed but are not profitable enough to be provided by the free market. If there were enough profits to be made then the private market would take care of these services, the Garda, and Defence Forces would be another example of such a service. So a bit of a catch 22 really

Tugboats

I'm so angry I threw my free bus pass at a driver on the picket line

Rightwing

Something has to change, can't have a situation where they are losing cash hand over fist.

Why don't management take the lead here and also take a cut. That's if they care about the company.

rodento

Rightwing wrote: »

Something has to change, can't have a situation where they are losing cash hand over fist.

Why don't management take the lead here and also take a cut. That's if they care about the company.

How do you run a public service without lossing money hand over fist, public service is loss making by definition

Rightwing

rodento wrote: »

How do you run a public service without lossing money hand over fist, public service is loss making by definition

What definition is that?

Fattes

Why don't management take the lead here and also take a cut. That's if they care about the company.

They have! Secondly there is no cut to the core pay of the workers as part of the Labour court deal, the cuts are to allowances and extras to core pay.

You show my any other job in the country where you are guaranteed 45K with the only educational requirement of a leaving cert? It is quite a high rate of pay based on the job spec and requirements.

Rightwing

Fattes wrote: »

They have! Secondly there is no cut to the core pay of the workers as part of the Labour court deal, the cuts are to allowances and extras to core pay.

You show my any other job in the country where you are guaranteed 45K with the only educational requirement of a leaving cert? It is quite a high rate of pay based on the job spec and requirements.

Everything in this post, I'm in full agreement with.

But tell me another job, where management is operating from Dubai when the company is in the doldrums. The mind boggles.

Fattes

But tell me another job, where management is operating from Dubai when the company is in the doldrums. The mind boggles.

One member of the board is not the entire management, Plenty of companies managers operate outside of their primary base of operations. He has missed 1 board meeting in person and was present by video conference.

Rightwing

Fattes wrote: »

One member of the board is not the entire management, Plenty of companies managers operate outside of their primary base of operations. He has missed 1 board meeting in person and was present by video conference.

I agree with that,, gives out all the wrong signals though. I think management need their pay cut big time, as do the rest of them in Bus Eireann. A 30% cut across the board.

rodento

Apart from linking into every other board meeting from Dubai, what does he contribute to the company to justify his pay

Rightwing

rodento wrote: »

Apart from linking into every other board meeting from Dubai, what does he contribute to the company to justify his pay

Let me guess,,,f*ck all.

Most of these companies have too many chiefs almost on celebrity wages.

Fattes

Apart from linking into every other board meeting from Dubai, what does he contribute to the company to justify his pay

You have no clue, he has been in Dublin for EVERY Board meeting except 1

Rightwing

Fattes wrote: »

You have no clue, he has been in Dublin for EVERY Board meeting except 1

What salary are the management on ?

KyussBishop

Right so the logic goes: The public bus services are not profitable, so lets give all the profitable routes to private industry, and keep using public spending for the non-profitable routes?

No more perfect an example, of privatizing profits and socializing losses; I'd rather profits from bus services go towards public purposes (even if 'inefficient', as that at least means money in workers pockets), rather than lining executive pockets through rent-seeking and price-gouging in the private sector.

Rightwing

KyussBishop wrote: »

Right so the logic goes: The public bus services are not profitable, so lets give all the profitable routes to private industry, and keep using public spending for the non-profitable routes?

No more perfect an example, of privatizing profits and socializing losses; I'd rather profits from bus services go towards public purposes (even if 'inefficient', as that at least means money in workers pockets), rather than lining executive pockets through rent-seeking and price-gouging in the private sector.

It's not that clear cut.

Fattes

What salary are the management on ?

As per the 2011 Annual Report, and they have been reduced since this. Not what you were expecting?

Mr. P. Mallee; €10,963, Mr. J. Griffin; €12,600, Mrs. T. Honan; €2,187, Mr. H. Minogue; €2,808, Mr. K. Fay; €1,848, Ms. S. Donohoe; €12,600; Mr. T. Hussey; €12,600 and Mr. M. Ó’Faoláin; €10,780

Dr. J. Lynch, Mr. B. Mc. Camley, and Mr. J. Moloney did not receive any director’s fees for services as directors. Included in wages and salaries costs is €176,040 for salary of the Chief Executive, Mr. M. Nolan for executive services.

woodoo

They should fight hard to maintain their 36 hr working week. Agree to move to 37 max.

jimmycrackcorm

woodoo wrote: »

They should fight hard to maintain their 36 hr working week. Agree to move to 37 max.

Why? Sure they are cushy hours - shouldn't they work a full week for their pay?

Gumbo

jimmycrackcorm wrote: »

Why? Sure they are cushy hours - shouldn't they work a full week for their pay?

Surely driving a bus for 7 hours a day, 5 days a week is long enough without risking the lives if the passengers on the bus?

PeadarCo

KyussBishop wrote: »

Right so the logic goes: The public bus services are not profitable, so lets give all the profitable routes to private industry, and keep using public spending for the non-profitable routes?

No more perfect an example, of privatizing profits and socializing losses; I'd rather profits from bus services go towards public purposes (even if 'inefficient', as that at least means money in workers pockets), rather than lining executive pockets through rent-seeking and price-gouging in the private sector.

I think the idea would be privatise Bus Eireann and subsidise unprofitable routes through a tendering process every number of years. If private companies than do the job better and require less subsidies than Bus Eireann they should be given the role.

While privatising Bus Eireann is an option you could also keep the company but make it compete with private companies when it comes to obtaining subsidies for unprofitable/public service routes.