2013 Bord Gais U21Hurling Championship.

Kerrydude1981

Looking forward to this,U21 Championship always produces a few cracking matches.

Thinkstoomuch

Fireball07 wrote: »

I've been convinced.... I did a little preview, and have favoured us narrowly

http://www.livegaelic.com/news/u-21-munster-hurling-championship-preliminary-round-tipperary-v-limerick-preview/


Not a great one tbh, writing from a point of ignorance in large parts, U-21 games are very hard to call. Suppose there still could be some changes to the starting teams, a friend of mine from Tipp said that Liam McGrath is doubtful too.

I think Hannon will be the best player on the pitch, if he's on form...along with Dowling, I think we just have a bit too much up front, even against the likes of Kennedy and Hamill. Of course...I said something similar last year and was very wrong then.

Thought it was bang on,the preview.I dont think youre were being biased.The bookies have tipp slight favourites but looking at both teams Limerick seem to be stronger.I think the bookies always give the home side the advantage when games are close as they feel home advantage is worth a few points.
In some cases at this grade it can be a hindrance.Home advantage did not do Cork or limerick much good last year in this grade.I feel that sometimes the away team can feel less pressure playing ,than the home side.
I think the two words that are crucial in these games are hunger and intensity which you have mentioned.I think Limerick due to being huge favourites not just to beat Tipp but to win Munster and get to an Ireland Final,as Antrim were in the Semi finals on their side of the draw,last year expected to win rather than earn the right to win and were beaten in most 50/50 balls.
I found being in Limerick last year a lot of people from Limkerick coudnt see the team lossing at all.And that spread to the players and no better team than Tipp to exploit that as tipp never fear Limerick in hurling.
Tommorrow,I think there will be no problem with hunger or intensity from Limerick.
Playing in thurles will add that fear factor to their play that they have to turn up,and be up for the battle,cause if they dont then Tippereary with the sun on their backs could stroll away.
Limerick have a good core of last years side,and they will be out to prove a point.A wounded animal is always dangerous.
Limerick never handle favouritsim with any degree of comfort,a bit like the Cork Footballers,but are much more at home in a game where their the underdog.
And like yourself,a lot of limerick people are very edgy about tommorrows game,which is good for Limerick,as theirs no great pressure.
Thats where I feel Limerick will be different than last year,and the fact on paper they seem to have a stronger team and subs,I feel they may edge it.
But it will be close.I think Limericks Full back should hold the Tipp Full forward line,where on the Tipp side their defence with Meagher out and Cahill at midfield is a lot weaker.
It is meant to be a good dry eveing weather wise.

Thinkstoomuch

Wexford play westmeath at 3.30 in Wexford park on Sunday.

Thinkstoomuch

Fireball07 wrote: »

I've been convinced.... I did a little preview, and have favoured us narrowly

http://www.livegaelic.com/news/u-21-munster-hurling-championship-preliminary-round-tipperary-v-limerick-preview/


Not a great one tbh, writing from a point of ignorance in large parts, U-21 games are very hard to call. Suppose there still could be some changes to the starting teams, a friend of mine from Tipp said that Liam McGrath is doubtful too.

I think Hannon will be the best player on the pitch, if he's on form...along with Dowling, I think we just have a bit too much up front, even against the likes of Kennedy and Hamill. Of course...I said something similar last year and was very wrong then.

Youre right,Hannon should be the top man tonight.Its he's 5th year at this grade.Very rarely you see that.
It should really be a case of man against boys for him.
As captain he should really be leading from the front.
I think Limerick are right to play him at half forward than last year starting him at CB.
Tippereary made the same mistake with Noel Mcgrath in 2011 in hes last year ,when Cork beat them in thurles.They started him as a CB,but Michael O Sullivan (currently on the senior panel)just limited hes influence on the game.He didnt score much,he did not need to,he just kept Mcgrath out of the game.
I can never understand that with teams,to play your most lethal forward as far away from the opposings teams goal as possible.Willam Hickey ,who you mentioned,I saw him once in the Fitzgibbon cup final, he was poor enough and taken off.
At the same time Darragh fives marked him so he may not be that bad.

Fireball07

People often say "hunger" is a cliché, and that may be true depending on how it's used. But commitment to put your body on the line for 50-50s, to make sure you come out with the ball when people are scrapping for it, intensity in the tackle, closing down at high-pace....they are real things. It's not enough to win the game on its own, but without it, you'll find it very hard to come out.


Well Hannon did play centre-back a lot at underage, I suppose it's seen as the most important position on the pitch and he could act as an anchor. Liam Rushe has done it for Dublin a few times, Brick does it for Waterford. But I'm glad to see him back where he can do damage on the scoreboard...Barry should be able to hold the defence (another player who will have been on the panel 5 years when he gets to Hannon's age).

As for Hickey, don't know much about him at all, but he might be there to try and win ball and to prevent Hamill dominating his area of the pitch, freeing up Hannon/Reidy/Dowling/Breen.

Mountainlad

I know Niall O Meara played midfield for Mary I, but I would be thinking that he is likely to swap with Stapleton and play wing forward. Don't think Brian Stapleton is a forward.

Midfield is an area where Limerick might struggle, we'll see what bearing it has on the game. Saw Bill Walsh play a few years back (I probably saw him more recently but at Senior level so didn't know who he was) and while he was good wasn't blown away. Probably has more hurling than Cian Hogan I suppose, but though I don't know much about the Limerick full back if he's good he should get a handle on him. Thought Dan Morrissey did reasonable in there last year.

I think Limerick should win this game.

Thinkstoomuch

Fireball07 wrote: »

People often say "hunger" is a cliché, and that may be true depending on how it's used. But commitment to put your body on the line for 50-50s, to make sure you come out with the ball when people are scrapping for it, intensity in the tackle, closing down at high-pace....they are real things. It's not enough to win the game on its own, but without it, you'll find it very hard to come out.


Well Hannon did play centre-back a lot at underage, I suppose it's seen as the most important position on the pitch and he could act as an anchor. Liam Rushe has done it for Dublin a few times, Brick does it for Waterford. But I'm glad to see him back where he can do damage on the scoreboard...Barry should be able to hold the defence (another player who will have been on the panel 5 years when he gets to Hannon's age).

As for Hickey, don't know much about him at all, but he might be there to try and win ball and to prevent Hamill dominating his area of the pitch, freeing up Hannon/Reidy/Dowling/Breen.

Hickey in a Bonner Maher role,so to speak.Now obivously he is no where near Maher,few are but I see their reasoning .He played in a similar role for Mary I.
They had Conlon,Cooney,Luke O Farell all better scoring forwards but Hickey was the workhorse in a sense.
I agree half back is a key aera tonight.Im surpised Egan was not in that line.
It should be a good game.The bookies have it a one point game.

Thinkstoomuch

Mountainlad wrote: »

I know Niall O Meara played midfield for Mary I, but I would be thinking that he is likely to swap with Stapleton and play wing forward. Don't think Brian Stapleton is a forward.

Midfield is an area where Limerick might struggle, we'll see what bearing it has on the game. Saw Bill Walsh play a few years back (I probably saw him more recently but at Senior level so didn't know who he was) and while he was good wasn't blown away. Probably has more hurling than Cian Hogan I suppose, but though I don't know much about the Limerick full back if he's good he should get a handle on him. Thought Dan Morrissey did reasonable in there last year.

I think Limerick should win this game.

Niall O Meara is a very versalite player.
He was centre back for the U21 footballers against us in the Munster final.

KevIRL

Is the picture on TG4 scewed up for anyone else?

Kerrydude1981

Hope they get the picture sorted before throw in.

wazzer1

KevIRL wrote: »

Is the picture on TG4 scewed up for anyone else?

Head melt.

Kerrydude1981

Nice one.

KevIRL

Sorted just in time

KevIRL

Bit of a paddlin this for Limerick

Orizio

Limerick half-back line missing in action.

Thinkstoomuch

Limerick are brutal.First touch and basic skills are very poor.Tippereary are way sharper.Forde and Breen having great games.
The likes of Dowling and Hannon,two guys you would expect to lead at this grade are way off the pace.
Dowling gave the ball away very softly on two occasisons.
This wont do Hannon or Dowling ,any good for the senior game.I expected Limerick to show intensity.Tippereary are winning most battles .
Id say now is time to bring on Egan,and put him at CB,and move tom Ryan back to half back also.Jack Aherne should see game time also.
O Meara having a great game.Its hughely important that Limerick give a perferomance in the second half.Tippereary ,credit due,there far slicker with the ball.

Pudders

Score please?

KevIRL

Pudders wrote: »

Score please?

1-12 to 1-4. Tipp ahead. Limerick just scored a goal to give them some hope

Tipperary animal lover

Pudders wrote: »

Score please?

1-12 to 1-4 limerick goal

wazzer1

Dowling seems to have gone downhill since he first came on the scene. I reckon Hannons best position is Centre Back.

Thinkstoomuch

Pudders wrote: »

Score please?

2-16 Tipp to 1-11 Limkerick

Thinkstoomuch

Barry Lynch has been superb since he came on for limerick.Along with Carmody and Dempsey the only limericj players that played well.
Dan Mccormack and Forde and Hamill have been excellent for Tipp.

wazzer1

Hamills a big one for the future. Amazing to think he hurls with a Junior B club. Fair play to them.

Fireball07

Yeah, Hamill was excellent. As were both midfielders, both McCormacks, Forde and Walsh was a handful who burned O'Loughlin a few times in the first half.


I blame poor tactics and decision-making for our loss though. In patches, we showed what we were capable of, but Tipp were much more fluid, seemed more skilful and their attackers were able to create space from themselves and take on players that much better. Doesn't bode well for the senior game though. Bar Carmody and Dempsey, one of them should definitely start.


Egan should have started, by the looks of it Barry Lynch too. And Mikey Ryan and Kevin O'Brien both made an impression, although O'Brien was another guilty of some terrible shooting. Hannon looked lethargic, Kenny was anonymous in midfield but scored a great goal. Reidy anonymous. Distribution poor. Very annoyed.

Thinkstoomuch

The Wexford U-21 hurling team and squad for the match versus Westmeath, this Sunday 2nd June has been named by manager JJ Doyle.
1. Brian Murphy (Shelmaliers)
2. Garret Foley (Fethard)
3. Shane O’Gorman (Adamstown)
4. Eoin Conroy (Naomh Eanna)
5. Dermot O’Leary (St. Pat’s Camolin)
6. Andrew Kenny (Buffers Alley)
7. Colm Heffernan (Faythe Harriers)
8. Conor O’Leary (Oulart)
9. Jack Hobbs (Ballygarret)
10. Dean Wright (Blackwater)
11. Lee Chin (Faythe Harriers)
12. Ian Byrne (Ferns)
13. Barry Carton (Cloughban)
14. Jack Guiney (Rathnure)
15. Garry Moore (Glynn-Barntown)
Subs:
16. Sean Murphy (Monageer)
17. Diarmuid Murphy (Blackwater)
18. Rhys Clarke (Faythe Harriers)
19. Niall Murphy (Crossabeg)
20. Sean Kenny (Bunclody)
21. Tony French (Adamstown)
22. Syl Barron (Rathnure)
23. Eoin Kelly (Geraldine O’Hallorans) 24. Liam Rochford (St. Anne’s)
Extended panel: Peter Mernagh (Monageer) Thomas Owley (Tara Rocks) Ruari Tubrid (Fethard) Kevin Whelan (St. Anne’s) Nicholas Cullen (Oulart) Robert O’Leary (Buffers Alley) Sean Murphy (Buffers Alley) Aaron Kenny (Oulart) Conor Goff (Oulart) Conor Hughes (Naomh Eanna)
 Manager JJ Doyle
Selectors Tommy Roche, Niall MacDonald, Larry Murphy.

Mountainlad

Fireball07 wrote: »

Yeah, Hamill was excellent. As were both midfielders, both McCormacks, Forde and Walsh was a handful who burned O'Loughlin a few times in the first half.


I blame poor tactics and decision-making for our loss though. In patches, we showed what we were capable of, but Tipp were much more fluid, seemed more skilful and their attackers were able to create space from themselves and take on players that much better. Doesn't bode well for the senior game though. Bar Carmody and Dempsey, one of them should definitely start.


Egan should have started, by the looks of it Barry Lynch too. And Mikey Ryan and Kevin O'Brien both made an impression, although O'Brien was another guilty of some terrible shooting. Hannon looked lethargic, Kenny was anonymous in midfield but scored a great goal. Reidy anonymous. Distribution poor. Very annoyed.

I would blame an awful first half performance, being cleaned in the half forward line and in midfield, and leaders like Hannon and Dowling not standing up. Dowling in particular was atrocious, attitude sucked.

I actually thought O'Loughlin was very solid at full back. Walsh got on a lot of ball at the start but he didn't get any shot in. And he cleaned him after that basically.

Barry O Connell was way to slow and totally at fault for the first goal. Suprised how poor the half forward line was considering how big they were. Thought they'd make some impression. In reality the first Limerick goal was fortuitous, desperate keeping. The second was a nice finish, but the game was up at that stage.

No improvement on last year overall.

Tipp were reasonably impressive. Very good performances in the backline from Breen, Hamill and Kennedy. Thought Brian Stapleton was very effective, and Niall O Meara probably had the most possessions of the forwards. Very intelligent hurler and well able to take his score, I was told he was better than Buggy and while the jury is still out on that tonight was a great showing from him. Jason Forde hit a few monster frees, and got some good points as well as the second goal. They're a forward line that thrives off good low ball and they saw plenty with Tipp's dominance around midfield and their halfback line.

It surely only gets harder from here though.

Thinkstoomuch

Fireball07 wrote: »

Yeah, Hamill was excellent. As were both midfielders, both McCormacks, Forde and Walsh was a handful who burned O'Loughlin a few times in the first half.


I blame poor tactics and decision-making for our loss though. In patches, we showed what we were capable of, but Tipp were much more fluid, seemed more skilful and their attackers were able to create space from themselves and take on players that much better. Doesn't bode well for the senior game though. Bar Carmody and Dempsey, one of them should definitely start.


Egan should have started, by the looks of it Barry Lynch too. And Mikey Ryan and Kevin O'Brien both made an impression, although O'Brien was another guilty of some terrible shooting. Hannon looked lethargic, Kenny was anonymous in midfield but scored a great goal. Reidy anonymous. Distribution poor. Very annoyed.

I was suprised with TJ ryan to be honest.
He made bad calls with Egan and the fact Breen,and Reidy were left on and Aherne never got a run.
Aherne has a superb first touch.
I felt Ryan should of been moved to half back .He was not doing much at midfield.
While Tj Ryan made mistakes some of the players have to take some of the blame.
Some of the passes and striking was sub standard and particulary guys like Hannon and Dowling who are senior players and bags of expierence and a Munster medal behind them,never lead the rest of the team,and were awful in fairness.
Tj cant be blamed for that.
Dowling was clearly a shadow of the player he was two years ago.When you see a guy getting involved with another player with the game well and truly over it really shows the frustration coming out.
I know Dowling has struggled with form but i was very suprised with Hannon.An easy free,by he's own standards missed at the start of the game to settle limerick and beaten to most balls ,he was really poor.This was he's 5th year at the grade ,and unless he was carrying an injury,he should really be better than tonight.What a poor way to play youre final game at this grade.
Carmody and Dempsey ,I agree were superb.With Condon as well ye certainly will have no problem at senior level here.
The worry that I would have for the senior game is Limerick really need Dowling and Hannon to have big games to rattle Tipp.
Its hard to see them doing that on tonights perferomance.Breen is just out of minor but he done very well on Dowling.
Credit to Tippereary,they deserved the win.
They have fine players in MCormack,Walsh,Breen,O Meara and Cahill.
Its easy to see why Hamill and Forde are on the senior panel.Their first touch as a team was excellent,and their was a pattern to their play.
A home game against Cork in Thurles they will be hard to beat.
I really thought this be a close game.

Fireball07

Mountainlad wrote: »

I would blame an awful first half performance, being cleaned in the half forward line and in midfield, and leaders like Hannon and Dowling not standing up. Dowling in particular was atrocious, attitude sucked.

I actually thought O'Loughlin was very solid at full back. Walsh got on a lot of ball at the start but he didn't get any shot in. And he cleaned him after that basically.

Barry O Connell was way to slow and totally at fault for the first goal. Suprised how poor the half forward line was considering how big they were. Thought they'd make some impression. In reality the first Limerick goal was fortuitous, desperate keeping. The second was a nice finish, but the game was up at that stage.

No improvement on last year overall.

Tipp were reasonably impressive. Very good performances in the backline from Breen, Hamill and Kennedy. Thought Brian Stapleton was very effective, and Niall O Meara probably had the most possessions of the forwards. Very intelligent hurler and well able to take his score, I was told he was better than Buggy and while the jury is still out on that tonight was a great showing from him. Jason Forde hit a few monster frees, and got some good points as well as the second goal. They're a forward line that thrives off good low ball and they saw plenty with Tipp's dominance around midfield and their halfback line.

It surely only gets harder from here though.

Well, I think part of the reason we were cleaned out in the half-forward line and midfield was due to poor tactics. The movement from our forwards was atrocious, and the quality of ball being delivered from the backline was poor. And when we did get the ball, how many times did we play stupid crossfield balls and get them intercepted?

And some players didn't look sharp, our players were hooked and blocked a lot more than the Tipp players. Even when Tipp were in their own defence, their clearances seemed to come under a lot more pressure than us.

I thought the likes of Hannon and Dowling showed flashes of what they are capable of, caught a few good balls, won a few frees....but not enough, considering how talented they are. Largely anonymous which was very disappointing.

O'Loughlin was solid enough after a shaky start, but Walsh went past him 3 or 4 times early on, and he didn't look too solid for the penalty either. Carmody had to save him a couple of times early on. But yeah he recovered well.


In fairness, Tipp's second goal was a bit lucky itself.....but it was a real killer blow, it was the one time we actually looked like coming into the game, Ryan had started to pick up scraps around midfield....after being dominated by Tipp for large parts. Kenny was very poor.


I was impressed by Tipp, although that might just have been the contrast. One worry might be that the Limerick forwards did win a lot of primary possession in the 2nd half.....didn't do much with it, but an in-form Cork side might.



I'm rambling a bit now, I'm just really really disappointed.

Mountainlad

Fireball07 wrote: »

Well, I think part of the reason we were cleaned out in the half-forward line and midfield was due to poor tactics. The movement from our forwards was atrocious, and the quality of ball being delivered from the backline was poor. And when we did get the ball, how many times did we play stupid crossfield balls and get them intercepted?

And some players didn't look sharp, our players were hooked and blocked a lot more than the Tipp players. Even when Tipp were in their own defence, their clearances seemed to come under a lot more pressure than us.

I thought the likes of Hannon and Dowling showed flashes of what they are capable of, caught a few good balls, won a few frees....but not enough, considering how talented they are. Largely anonymous which was very disappointing.

O'Loughlin was solid enough after a shaky start, but Walsh went past him 3 or 4 times early on, and he didn't look too solid for the penalty either. Carmody had to save him a couple of times early on. But yeah he recovered well.


In fairness, Tipp's second goal was a bit lucky itself.....but it was a real killer blow, it was the one time we actually looked like coming into the game, Ryan had started to pick up scraps around midfield....after being dominated by Tipp for large parts. Kenny was very poor.


I was impressed by Tipp, although that might just have been the contrast. One worry might be that the Limerick forwards did win a lot of primary possession in the 2nd half.....didn't do much with it, but an in-form Cork side might.



I'm rambling a bit now, I'm just really really disappointed.

I thought both Tipp's goals were poor from a Limerick perspective. There was so many bodies competing to win the ball that they should have won it. Given they didn't, letting Forde inside free on his own was pretty horrific as well.

I was down the opposite end to the penalty, it seemed though that whoever it was took a nice few steps but hard to be sure.

Hannon got a few scores from playing the loose ball, but I'd say he caught two balls in the whole game. He certainly wasn't the driving force Limerick needed him to be, the one he should be. What summed up Dowling for me was after ye went a good ways behind in the first half, he controlled a pass around the 21 with his back to goal, and then rather then take it on he drilled a pass backwards from goal as if he was taken a shot, impossible to control and Tipp came away with it out around there own 50. Didn't stand up in my opinion.

Whether it was tactical or execution is hard to say. Probably both I guess, but I dunno can how much you can blame the management for a lack of sharpness and poor decision making.

Orizio

That Limerick side is close to the softest I've ever seen on a hurling pitch. Tipp were pretty mediocre.

Clare should walk it if they are arsed.