Irish Rail mismanagement: why do they run 4-carriage DARTs at rush hour?

hatrickpatrick

...to greystones, so that everyone on the platform at 6PM in Tara Street and Pearse has to cram into an absolutely tiny train, with even more passangers than usual because it's the last one to greystones for about 45 minutes,

while you can get a dart that's twice as long, with twice as much room on it, into town from Sandycove at 2 o clock in the afternoon when there's almost nobody on it to begin with?

Does anyone understand this ridiculous logic? I dread the dart home on Tuesday evenings because I know it'll be a cramped 4 carriager heading all the way to greystones, yet heading in to college for a 1 or 2 o clock class at a time when I'm the only one in the station, I can get on a train which is twice as long and sit in a pretty much empty carriage?

I'm sure we can all come up with examples of ridiculous mismanagement of trains and busses, but let's just start with this: Why not switch the trains? Run the long one at 6PM Southbound and the tiny one at 2 or 3PM northbound? This would inconvenience absolutely nobody on the northbound train and benefit absolutely everybody on the later southbound rush hour train.

Is there a logical explanation for this I'm missing? It seems mad that you see trains long enough to fill the platform at quiet hours, while the rush hour trains home from town are the ones which you have to run up the platform to get to because they're so small. What gives? This seems like an amazingly idiotic policy to me.

TheLB

Sending Dart carriages to a country town at rushhour is a waste of resources tbh. There is a intercity to Greystones at 17.38.

BenShermin

TheLB wrote: »

Sending Dart carriages to a country town at rushhour is a waste of resources tbh. There is a intercity to Greystones at 17.38.

And what about the 17 train stations between Connolly station and that country town?

dissed doc

BenShermin wrote: »

And what about the 17 train stations between Connolly station and that country town?

No no, you don't understand. People only want to go into the big schmoke for some shopping in the afternoon, and have plenty of schpace for the bags.

Clearly IE are trying to disencourage rail use, to stop people getting the idea of having a job and getting up in the morning.

Hilly Bill

hatrickpatrick wrote: »

...to greystones, so that everyone on the platform at 6PM in Tara Street and Pearse has to cram into an absolutely tiny train, with even more passangers than usual because it's the last one to greystones for about 45 minutes,

while you can get a dart that's twice as long, with twice as much room on it, into town from Sandycove at 2 o clock in the afternoon when there's almost nobody on it to begin with?

Does anyone understand this ridiculous logic? I dread the dart home on Tuesday evenings because I know it'll be a cramped 4 carriager heading all the way to greystones, yet heading in to college for a 1 or 2 o clock class at a time when I'm the only one in the station, I can get on a train which is twice as long and sit in a pretty much empty carriage?

I'm sure we can all come up with examples of ridiculous mismanagement of trains and busses, but let's just start with this: Why not switch the trains? Run the long one at 6PM Southbound and the tiny one at 2 or 3PM northbound? This would inconvenience absolutely nobody on the northbound train and benefit absolutely everybody on the later southbound rush hour train.

Is there a logical explanation for this I'm missing? It seems mad that you see trains long enough to fill the platform at quiet hours, while the rush hour trains home from town are the ones which you have to run up the platform to get to because they're so small. What gives? This seems like an amazingly idiotic policy to me.

I think there was an answer to that given a few weeks ago i think. Cant remember what it was or by who.

mtjm

I think it's something to do with the wheels, was speaking to a driver who was waiting for a delayed train said it was something to do with the wheels, as my dart was waiting didn't have time to find out the full answer (he was waiting for commuter train btw before anyone asks)

davidlacey

cost saving! why run a 6 or 8 car set when you can pack everyone in like sardines into 4?

miller50841

I have never seen more on a dart compared to how the LUAS does be with stinky arm pits in your face.

If the demand is there they will match with supply.
1 good idea would be to take out seats and put along the side so there would be more standing space.

Jamie2k9

Was all excited when I read the first 3 words "Irish rail mismanagement" was expecting something good but then I read on and its the same old topic but while on the topic of capacity/demand etc what I can't believe is that the 6 car ICR's are operating Northern service at night. These are 2 3 car sets and they should only be 3 car sets and there is no excuse for them not being split in Drogheda. The 22.05 Drogheda to Connolly which forms the 23.30 from Pearse to Drogheda should not be operated by a 6 car train. There is no valid reason for this train not being split before departure at 22.05 from Drogheda. TBH I would even say it should be down to a 3 car set once 19.00 comes or whenever it arrives in Drogheda after that. I would of expected this nonsense would of being stopped by now...

BenShermin

miller50841 wrote: »

If the demand is there they will match with supply.
1 good idea would be to take out seats and put along the side so there would be more standing space.

There's a need for this on the likes of London Underground where trains long enough to take up the entire length of platforms are full even though they run at an every two minute frequency at peak times.

No point in taking seats out of the Dart as that would annoy off peak passengers who might find it hard to get seats on services that they could always get a seat on. The simple solution here is to have eight car trains running at rush hour, NO exceptions!!

Lapin

mtjm wrote: »

I think it's something to do with the wheels, was speaking to a driver who was waiting for a delayed train said it was something to do with the wheels, as my dart was waiting didn't have time to find out the full answer (he was waiting for commuter train btw before anyone asks)

Ah yes - The Wheels !

The only problem with the wheels on DART services and other Irish Rail trains is their inability to go round and round as much as the wheels in the UK and elsewhere.

markpb

miller50841 wrote: »

If the demand is there and they have enough money they will match with supply.

You left a crucial part out of your post.

bk

But how much money is Irish Rail saving by doing this.

The biggest expense by far is staff wages, putting on extra carriages doesn't effect this cost.

So all they are saving is a little bit of fuel, according to the IR annual report, fuel makes up less then 8% of their operating costs. So really no major savings here by doing this.

Michael D Not Higgins

bk wrote: »

But how much money is Irish Rail saving by doing this.

The biggest expense by far is staff wages, putting on extra carriages doesn't effect this cost.

So all they are saving is a little bit of fuel, according to the IR annual report, fuel makes up less then 8% of their operating costs. So really no major savings here by doing this.

But the staff are permanent so it's an overhead that can't be changed. The fuel and maintenance costs are the only variables that they have at the moment to reduce.

markpb

bk wrote: »

But how much money is Irish Rail saving by doing this.

I'd tend to agree with you except to say that at when you're short on cash, picking away at the small expenses isn't a bad idea. Especially with a heavily unionised company where cost saving negotiations can take a (very) long time.

Also, I can't think of any other reason why IR would reduce capacity like that.

bk

Michael D Not Higgins wrote: »

But the staff are permanent so it's an overhead that can't be changed. The fuel and maintenance costs are the only variables that they have at the moment to reduce.

What! of course they can reduce staff too, you let them go or you give them a pay cut.

LeinsterDub

bk wrote: »

What! of course they can reduce staff too, you let them go or you give them a pay cut.

Strike! We the workers demand.....

Michael D Not Higgins

bk wrote: »

What! of course they can reduce staff too, you let them go or you give them a pay cut.

And how long does it take to do that versus running shorter DARTs?

davidlacey

bk wrote: »

What! of course they can reduce staff too, you let them go or you give them a pay cut.

That doesn't happen overnight especially with a big union behind you..

davidlacey

bk wrote: »

What! of course they can reduce staff too, you let them go or you give them a pay cut.

On that subject have railway workers been subjected to any pay cuts since the collapse of IE passenger numbers, judging by how much i heard some people who work in their ticket offices makes a week, i think there should be a review....

Michael D Not Higgins

Last I heard they're still using voluntary redundancy to thin the numbers.

davidlacey

Michael D Not Higgins wrote: »

Last I heard they're still using voluntary redundancy to thin the numbers.

id say they will save in the long run with that , but not really in the short term..

Michael D Not Higgins

Think of all those severence payments, must cost a fortune short term. I'd say the unions won't play nice til Irish Rail management take all other possible cost cutting measures first.

davidlacey

Michael D Not Higgins wrote: »

Think of all those severence payments, must cost a fortune short term. I'd say the unions won't play nice til Irish Rail management take all other possible cost cutting measures first.

what measures are left?

Michael D Not Higgins

davidlacey wrote: »

what measures are left?

I mean the ones they're already doing, voluntary redundancy, parking up some 22000s, shorter DARTs, etc.

Then when they still have a shortfall, the unions will have no argument against pay cuts or other redundancies.

bk

So in other words, push rail in Ireland to the brink of collapse !!

And probably never gain back the customers lost to the motorways in doing so.

Michael D Not Higgins

How does cost cutting and re-aligning pay rates "push rail... to the brink of collapse"?

davidlacey

Michael D Not Higgins wrote: »

How does cost cutting and re-aligning pay rates "push rail... to the brink of collapse"?

are they not half way there already if numbers are anything to go by?

Michael D Not Higgins

The rail will never be gone. Even if the government pulled all funding and Irish Rail ceased all operations tomorrow, a private operator would fill the void quick enough, even if it was only to run the Cork-Dublin, Belfast-Dublin and DARTs.

bk

Michael D Not Higgins wrote: »

How does cost cutting and re-aligning pay rates "push rail... to the brink of collapse"?

No, I meant this when you said:

"parking up some 22000s, shorter DARTs, etc."

And with etc. I would add doubling intercity fares at peak times, 3 carriage 22k's to Cork, etc.

Rationalising staff costs would be a very good thing IMO.

In the age of leap, online bookings, TVM's, etc. are ticket sales staff even needed? Sure maybe one ticket seller/customer service person in Connolly, Tara and Hueston, but certainly they aren't needed at most DART stations.

Any time I take the DART, I never see them actually selling any tickets, they just look bored and reading the paper.

You would think maybe at least turn the ticket kiosks into mini shops selling sweets, coffee, sandwiches, etc. At least get some revenue for the staff cost.

Michael D Not Higgins

The way they'd think, they would want more money for increasing the amount of work.