New to sailing - Questions?

Stheno

pedroeibar1 wrote: »

'Dinghies' was the first thing that entered my mind when I saw your post on the other thread about your helming and noticing the effect of crew placement for boat performance. It comes very naturally to dinghy sailors, people tend to forget about it on bigger boats. Stuff like easing halyards and backstay when downwind on a heavy day is another. It's great to see how you've come so far so fast.
PS don't be afraid to shout at them to get across the cabin top faster when you tack!

Ah I've not done that great to be honest, it's the people around me I have to give credit to. I've now helmed three times on that 28 footer, and twice it's just with two of us in total, only had "ballast" crew once.

We were out yesterday, and I really focussed on the telltales for the first time, and got on great, and as well I was dead chuffed that I set myself a mark as a target and was able to figure out exactly what we needed to do to get around it where I wanted, and that I hit the mark bang on, first time I helmed I was a disaster around the marks.

Like my friend whose boat I was on said, it's all about the hands on practice.

Yesterday I noticed not just that, but that I wasn't afraid to ask my fellow crew person to move about, and even at one point asked them to harden up on the sails. I'm very grateful to have them teaching me. I'm also half thinking of getting back into dinghy sailing to hone those skills tbh.

WHen I started sailing I found dinghies overwhelming, now I think I'd appreciate them more and be more comfortable. My first year sailing I literally did not know what to do in a dinghy, now I'd have a much better idea

pillphil

How much available time did you need to get into sailing as a beginner? Is it mainly a weekend thing?

My school used to bring us out in toppers years ago which was fun and I would love to do some proper sailing.

pedroeibar1

Do not be too self-deprecating. I've sailed with people who despite sailing for years would never, ever helm in a race, even on a crews' race on a Tuesday night. It's always good to ask crew for an opinion (never their advice) but it always remains your call. (One is never comfortable in dinghies, - nasty, wet, fickle things!:)

Stheno

pillphil wrote: »

How much available time did you need to get into sailing as a beginner? Is it mainly a weekend thing?

My school used to bring us out in toppers years ago which was fun and I would love to do some proper sailing.

When I started I was lucky and sailed four days a week it depends on what you want to get out of it tbh

pedroeibar1

pillphil wrote: »

How much available time did you need to get into sailing as a beginner? Is it mainly a weekend thing?

My school used to bring us out in toppers years ago which was fun and I would love to do some proper sailing.

It depends on where you are based - most summer evenings and weekends in Dun Laoghaire there are introductory courses underway. It's down to your available time and other time demands.

HeidiHeidi

pedroeibar1 wrote: »

Do not be too self-deprecating. I've sailed with people who have race on a Tuesday night. It's always good to ask crew for an opinion (never their advice) but it always remains your call. (One is never comfortable in dinghies, - nasty, wet, fickle things!:)

Oooh, dunno about this!

It always remains someone's call - but not necessarily the helm. I've been on boats where the helm considers his/her only job to be to sail the boat as fast as they can on whatever point of sail they're on. It's the crew's job to figure out tactics, lines to be taken, avoiding other boats etc etc - the helm just follows instructions and sails fast.

Now obviously you need a very tight crew, that you trust 100%, for that to work.

But there's many ways to skin a cat (or is it a pig?).

But I agree with you 110% about the dinghies

Stheno

HeidiHeidi wrote: »

Oooh, dunno about this!

It always remains someone's call - but not necessarily the helm. I've been on boats where the helm considers his/her only job to be to sail the boat as fast as they can on whatever point of sail they're on. It's the crew's job to figure out tactics, lines to be taken, avoiding other boats etc etc - the helm just follows instructions and sails fast.

Now obviously you need a very tight crew, that you trust 100%, for that to work.

But there's many ways to skin a cat (or is it a pig?).

But I agree with you 110% about the dinghies

This is a good post, I was chatting to a 75 year old sailor recently who said that helms need to realise they are not tacticians, and as a newbie helm I rely on my one crew person a lot of the time to give me direction so I can focus on point of sail and speed.

Now as it's just the two of us at the moment it's very much a joint effort, and as I'm not very experienced he helps hugely, but it makes a big difference to chat about what we are going to do and be in the same mindset.

pillphil

Stheno wrote: »

When I started I was lucky and sailed four days a week it depends on what you want to get out of it tbh

pedroeibar1 wrote: »

It depends on where you are based - most summer evenings and weekends in Dun Laoghaire there are introductory courses underway. It's down to your available time and other time demands.

My main concern would be if I joined a crew, would only being available on the weekends be an issue?

HeidiHeidi

pillphil wrote: »

My main concern would be if I joined a crew, would only being available on the weekends be an issue?

As long as you turn up when you say you will, that's half the battle.

Some boats only sail weekends, some sail all racing days with different crews, some sail all racing days with the same crew. Depends on the boat.

But the most important thing for you as crew is that you are reliable!

Stheno

pillphil wrote: »

My main concern would be if I joined a crew, would only being available on the weekends be an issue?

No, not at all.

The main crew I am on at the minute only sail mid week on a wednesday, then I'm on another crew that sail only for regattas.

Then I'm on the boat that I helm on that we practice for the future.

We sail out of malahide/howth *on the practice boat* so if you wanted to join us some day and are ok with a learner on the helm, I'm sure youd be welcome to joing us.

Also I know a fair few of the guys who race in Howth of a Saturday so would be happy to let them know you are looking to crew.

pillphil

Yeah, that'd be great. Any particular preparation I should do or anything I need to buy?

Stheno

pillphil wrote: »

Yeah, that'd be great. Any particular preparation I should do or anything I need to buy?

Nope most boats will have spare life jackets and runners are fine footwear wise, let me check for you and I'll pm you?

pillphil

Stheno wrote: »

Nope most boats will have spare life jackets and runners are fine footwear wise, let me check for you and I'll pm you?

Brilliant, thanks.

Conchir

Poor dinghies, getting a bad rep in here

HeidiHeidi

Conchir wrote: »

Poor dinghies, getting a bad rep in here

Well in my case it's not the boat that's the problem, it's the sailor

neris

cant remember last time i was in a dinghy though it was probably last century

pedroeibar1

@Pillphill – anyone who says “I am available Saturdays” and turns up on time always gets a welcome.

neris wrote: »

cant remember last time i was in a dinghy though it was probably last century

The last time I sailed a dinghy most definitely was the last century, when I taught my kids to sail in a Mirror; the last time I raced a dinghy was in the early 70’s in Dunmore East, a Fireball event (East Coast Championships maybe?)

HeidiHeidi wrote: »

Oooh, dunno about this!

It always remains someone's call - but not necessarily the helm. I've been on boats where the helm considers his/her only job to be to sail the boat as fast as they can on whatever point of sail they're on. It's the crew's job to figure out tactics, lines to be taken, avoiding other boats etc etc - the helm just follows instructions and sails fast.

Now obviously you need a very tight crew, that you trust 100%, for that to work.

But there's many ways to skin a cat (or is it a pig?).

But I agree with you 110% about the dinghies

I think that is a good post because it brings in a lot of what should be done on any racing yacht. Without wishing to sound like an old f@rt, I’ve always believed that crew should be encouraged, involved and given opportunity – give a newbie the helm to sail out to the starting line, or after the finish to sail back to the mooring. No huge pressure, but gives experience, a sense of reward/merit and gets him/her used to sailing in proximity to other craft.
Who does what and when is ‘horses for courses’ really, and depends on the size of the boat, the ownership structure and the length of the race. What I meant about calling the shots was that “the Skipper is the Skipper”, in charge, and responsible for lives and safety. The final decision on everything is his/her call. However, on a very big boat the skipper might be the owner and not necessarily be the helm (who might be just a ‘hired jockey’). Similarly it might be acceptable for the tactician under the ‘boat rules’ to call the shots. The roles/rules need to be defined. BUT a boat sailed by a committee DOES NOT WORK.
I agree that the helm should concentrate on getting the best out of the boat (just as the skipper should get the best out of the crew) and any good helm would /should take a break and regularly exchange roles e.g. downwind. Beyond 30 mins it is very hard to retain intense concentration. In Dublin Bay the helm invariably (still?) is the skipper and IMO a good skipper should never encourage ‘advice’ but always ask for opinion – “Do you think we will lay the mark with this tide?” or “Is X getting better wind?” - questions like those (a) give an increased sense of involvement to a crew (b) increases their feeling of worth/skills acceptance, (c) improve their concentration and (d) allows the helm to concentrate on getting the best out of the boat while the crew watches what is going on. But it is the skipper’s call to act on the info provided. And when there is discussion the boat stops to listen.
Off now for my Ovaltine!

Corbally

Does anyone tell me the start times of the racing in DL? I would love to crew but weekends are a no go due to work. Mid week evenings would work if I could make it there after work. I'm a big believer in 'if you say you will be there then be there on time' so wouldn't commit unless I was sure I could make it.

I'm a member in Blessington and learning on dinghies and loving it so far. I would like a spin on a big boat to compare the differences.

Corbally

Thanks OSI

HeidiHeidi

There are also two winter series, the Turkey Shoot in November/December (usually 7 Sundays) and the Spring Chicken in February/March (usually 5 or 6 Sundays) - very popular, up to 80 boats enter the TS, maybe about 50 the SC. Starts are around 10am on Sunday mornings and you're in by 1ish, so not a whole day lost like the regular Saturday racing.

It's much less formal (but still competitive!) than the summer racing and is great fun.

Be a nice introduction to bigger-boat racing if that time/day happened to suit you!

HeidiHeidi

OSI wrote: »

Thursday races start at 7pm at least, but unfortunately you've missed that series as it just finished up this week. Not sure if they're starting another weekday evening series for the autumn and winter, probably not with the nights ending earlier and earlier.

Also, just to correct something in this (which may have been a typo/autocorrect, but which may make a difference to you)

On Thursdays the first warning signal is at 1835, not 7pm! I know quite a few of the bigger boats (who go off first) struggle to get crew out to the clubs/marina in time - it's usually on the boat for 5.30. Last start on a Thursday is 1915.

First warning on Tuesdays is 1845, but there are much smaller fleets out for that.

Apologies to OSI, but just said I'd clarify that!

Corbally

I think I'm out of luck. I work different days all the time, sometimes 7 days per week so can't commit to any day time races and it would be at least 7pm before I could get to DL after work so that's evenings buggered as well. Might have to buy a boat if I want a taste of it!

Steve

hanksy123 wrote: »

I think I'm out of luck. I work different days all the time, sometimes 7 days per week so can't commit to any day time races and it would be at least 7pm before I could get to DL after work so that's evenings buggered as well. Might have to buy a boat if I want a taste of it!

The evening series is pretty much done this year, in about a month and a bit the 'Turkey shoot' series will start, that is run on Sunday mornings throughout the winter and is great craic. If you are interested, there are always people looking for crew.

Corbally

Steve wrote: »

The evening series is pretty much done this year, in about a month and a bit the 'Turkey shoot' series will start, that is run on Sunday mornings throughout the winter and is great craic. If you are interested, there are always people looking for crew.

I work most Sundays so it's a no go for me! Thanks for the replies

Tom Dunne

Don't forget that a number of places have pay-as-you-go options, where you can rent a boat as you become more competent.

Fingal Sailing school even does one-on-one sessions where its just you and the instructor at a time that suits you. All gear is provided too.