When to foam roll...

Antisocialiser

A lot of posters seem to foam roll regularly but I have yet to see any discussion as to when one should implement a session into their routines and how it may affect performance.

When to foam roll

The article seems to be worth a gander. It concedes that the timing will ultimately be down to your own personal needs but I thought it might be interesting to get some thoughts on whether there is a balance to be struck between increased range of movement and decreased stability or muscle activation etc.

Apologies if I am talking out of me hoop.:D

MicraBoy

I do mine at the start.....because I was told to....that is all.

RidleyRider

If I get in 20-30 minutes per day at least 4 times a week I'm happy.

colman1212

Usually 5 - 10 mins pre work out. Just foam roll back + whatever muscle group im training that day.

nice_guy80

before exercise definitely
gym, running, cycling or whatever

if I have time then afterwards as well

dahat

Before exercise and after then as often as i can really.At home i use Wavvin pipe but in my Gym they have a foam roller which is alot softer than the wavvin pipe so i'd imagine it can be used a hell of alot more than my wavvin pipe

Antisocialiser

It is widely understood that some methods of flexibility training can reduce sports performance (Marek & Cramer et al, 2005). Stimulation of the GTO and therefore subsequent inhibition of the muscle spindle will allow for a change in resting tissue length. However, static stretching can cause damage to muscle spindle receptors as well as causing an acute reduction in power and joint position sense. This can increase the risk of instability-related injury and poor performance. The same could be said for foam rolling, which initiates a similar response within the nerve pathways. Therefore, it is thought that a pre-workout foam rolling session could also negatively affect performance, although this has not yet been identified by research.

As well as nerve and tissue response, it is important to consider the individual implications of the pain response. Pain is regarded by the brain as a perception of danger (Butler & Mosely, 2003). It dictates an immediate response from the centralized and peripheral structures of the nervous system, stimulating a noxious (painful) and inhibitory response that results in changes to localized tissue structures (through protective mechanisms such as spasm). As well as this, there are changes to local and global hormone distributions (think of the fight or flight response) and desensitization of sensory input (Chapman & Tucket et al, 2009). The direct application of a painful stimulus may create a localized spasm or worse, an unwanted inhibition response that could reduce power and performance factors by decreasing stability and joint awareness as well as muscle activation. f

The above would suggest that it isn't a more is better situation with foam rolling.

At the start of this year I was foam rolling before games and really felt like I lost that inch of pace / sharpness. Has anyone else experienced similar?

There is no denying its place pre-resistance training for increased ROM and quality of movement imo. I can get a much deeper squat with a good body position after 10 minutes abusing myself with the foam roller.

nice_guy80

Antisocialiser wrote: »

The above would suggest that it isn't a more is better situation with foam rolling.

At the start of this year I was foam rolling before games and really felt like I lost that inch of pace / sharpness. Has anyone else experienced similar?

There is no denying its place pre-resistance training for increased ROM and quality of movement imo. I can get a much deeper squat with a good body position after 10 minutes abusing myself with the foam roller.

what sort of stretching were you using before the games?

there are lots of studies out there that suggest static stretching before sport is useless - however you really have to read in detail into their methodologies because so many studies can be flawed

Antisocialiser

nice_guy80 wrote: »

what sort of stretching were you using before the games?

there are lots of studies out there that suggest static stretching before sport is useless - however you really have to read in detail into their methodologies because so many studies can be flawed

All warm-ups would be dynamic in nature; cool-down will involve some static stretches though. I think the response to static stretching seems to be similar to that of foam rolling. That's the first article I've came across that says more about self-myofascial release than just 'do it'. Perhaps I just haven't been looking hard enough but I thought I'd post it anyway for anyone interested!

Rower2

I recently foam rolled my back before rowing and it just aggravated the muscle soreness. Wasn't a good move at all!

siochain

before and after training.

A few nights per week when watching TV

jugger0

Is there any studies showing the effectiveness of foam rolling? i remember reading something by poliquin and he wasn't too pushed on it..

deadlybuzzman

When I used to train after work I found the stomach churning pain of a few minutes on my PVC pipe was a great preworkout waker upper.
Of course as time went on and I rolled on a more regular basis that level of pain passed but every so often Ill find a nice spot with a slithor thats still like a slap in the face

Antisocialiser

jugger0 wrote: »

Is there any studies showing the effectiveness of foam rolling? i remember reading something by poliquin and he wasn't too pushed on it..

Well here's Poliquin's thoughts on foam rolling.

Among the claimed benefits of foam rolling are increased flexibility and improvement of athletic performance. Let’s break this down into two specific areas: hamstring flexibility and vertical jump – I chose these two athletic qualities because research exists on how foam roller training can affect them.

One study on the effects of foam rollers on hamstring flexibility was funded by the University of Wisconsin–La Crosse and published in 2006. It involved 23 college-age men and women with less than optimal hamstring flexibility. The treatment group used the roller three times a week, rolling the hamstring from the ischial tuberosity to the posterior knee. They did 3 reps, each one minute long, with one minute of rest between reps. Here is what the researchers concluded: “This study revealed no significant difference in the interaction between the treatment and control group’s pre- and post-measurements. The results of this study suggest foam rollers are an ineffective technique for increasing hamstring flexibility over an eight-week time period.”

How about the vertical jump, a basic test of overall power? In a study for a master’s thesis presented in 2011 to Sacred Heart University, nine college-age males with at least one year of experience in performing plyometric training were recruited to see if a foam roller warm-up was superior to a dynamic warm-up in three types of jumps. The dynamic warm-up group was the clear winner, and the author concluded that foam roller warm-ups “…are not recommended prior to physical activity requiring increased neurological activation….” I should also note that research has shown that static stretching also has a negative effect on vertical jump performance.

Does this mean that foam rollers are a waste of time? Certainly not. Let’s look at one exercise using the foam roller that is extremely valuable for increasing performance in the gym and also improving posture -- especially for those who have developed a "hunchback" from spending too much time in front of a computer.

These quotes seem to tally with the notion that the foam roller is good for gym work but can be detrimental to on field performance.

listermint

Whenever i feel some tightness to alleviate it.


Never do it otherwise.

ScissorPaperRock

I thought I read here once that rolling on the lower back area was a bad idea. Is this the case? Or am I just making this up? I think it was something to do with stability vs flexibility, and wanting the former in the lower back region.

Will Heffernan

ScissorPaperRoc wrote: »

I thought I read here once that rolling on the lower back area was a bad idea. Is this the case? Or am I just making this up? I think it was something to do with stability vs flexibility, and wanting the former in the lower back region.

I wonder what genius would of said that?

colman1212

Ok soooo... foam roll legs chest etc but not upper back?

Will Heffernan

colman1212 wrote: »

Ok soooo... foam roll legs chest etc but not upper back?

Nope.

Will Heffernan

What ScissorPaperRoc was referring to is what I've referred to in the past and made videos on etc etc.

I use the term Mobility and Stability work a lot and the reason for that is because there is 'stuff' you want mobility and 'stuff' where you want stability.

I want mobility in my ankle, stability in my knee, mobility in my hips, stability in my lower back, mobility in my upper back, stability in my neck....do you see the pattern here?

Foam rolling 'can' be done for lots of reasons...before you do it you should understand what your goal is and what you are trying to achieve.

ScissorPaperRock

Will Heffernan wrote: »

I wonder what genius would of said that?

I'm glad I wasn't just conjuring ideas in my head! Now I just need to find your videos.

Edit: just noticed a handy link in your sig! Cheers for your contribution to the forum, by the way. The fact that I remembered that shows that it helps!

Absolute Zero

ScissorPaperRoc wrote: »

I'm glad I wasn't just conjuring ideas in my head! Now I just need to find your videos.

Edit: just noticed a handy link in your sig! Cheers for your contribution to the forum, by the way. The fact that I remembered that shows that it helps!

I used to foam roll quite a lot. However I have since stopped doing it. I squat 3x a week so I find this keeps my mobility quite stable, but saying that I always do some dynamic stretches for the hips during the day.

Quick question - is foam rolling the back (lower back) before a deadlift session a bad idea? I was told of increased micro trauma to the lower back following foam rolling and then deadlifting afterwards.

Will Heffernan

Antisocialiser

Will Heffernan wrote: »

What ScissorPaperRoc was referring to is what I've referred to in the past and made videos on etc etc.

I use the term Mobility and Stability work a lot and the reason for that is because there is 'stuff' you want mobility and 'stuff' where you want stability.

I want mobility in my ankle, stability in my knee, mobility in my hips, stability in my lower back, mobility in my upper back, stability in my neck....do you see the pattern here?

Foam rolling 'can' be done for lots of reasons...before you do it you should understand what your goal is and what you are trying to achieve.

My goal is optimal performance on the GAA pitch. My week looks like this:

Monday - Bodyweight exercises (i.e. 3 sets of pull-ups / dips / inverted rows)
Tuesday - Weights then pitch session
Wednesday - Some light weights (maybe 3x3 deadlift and 3 sets of chins)
Thursday - Weights then pitch session
Friday - Light conditioning work
Saturday - Rest / Practice kickpassing or score taking
Sunday - Match

The weights before training are generally low reps (in season) and include what I understand to be power movements e.g. squat jumps, med ball throws.

When should I foam roll?

Edit: Opened thread to post 30min before actually posted and missed the video. Apologies if the question is answered therein, will watch later!

Will Heffernan

Antisocialiser wrote: »

When should I foam roll?

Now.

Antisocialiser

Will Heffernan wrote: »

Now.

Ok, there is very little floor space in my office though. Should I maintain eye contact with the 65 yo secretary as I roll my adductors? The raw sexual tension is already at an almost unbearable level so this may just tip her over the edge.

Or do you mean prior to my weights & pitch sessions?

Ant11

Will, you mentioned in your video that rolling the hamstring doesn't do much for you. What do you do for your hamstrings? I stretch and roll my hamstrings all the time and agree it doesn't have the same affect as say rolling your ITB but it does provide me with some slight relief. My left inner hamstring particularly gets sore after squatting compared to the right, probably because I had 2 tendons taken out and its slightly weaker, so I'm wondering is there anything else I can do? I've found it's worse if I only squat once a week compared to 2 or 3.

madfred

Left hamstring feels very tight too after doing some squatting (and not even that heavy). What's the best way to approach something like this? Why is it happening?

Would this be worth doing?

Will Heffernan

Antisocialiser wrote: »

Ok, there is very little floor space in my office though. Should I maintain eye contact with the 65 yo secretary as I roll my adductors? The raw sexual tension is already at an almost unbearable level so this may just tip her over the edge.

I am fine with whatever is necessary for you to be motivated to look after yourself properly.

Or do you mean prior to my weights & pitch sessions?

Foam rolling immediately prior to weights and pitch sessions is not a great use of time. Personally, I think it's dumb but each to their own.

Far better off doing your 'recovery' work when you are recovering.

Will Heffernan

madfred wrote: »

Left hamstring feels very tight too after doing some squatting (and not even that heavy).

Sounds like you need to work on that.

What's the best way to approach something like this?

Holistically.

Why is it happening?

How long is a piece of hamstring?

Lots of reasons...some of which might be mobility issues...anywhere for ankle to back and everywhere in between, could be osteological...leg length discrepancy, could be as a result of previous injury...scar tissue build up and on and on the list goes.

Would this be worth doing?

No.

nice_guy80

Will Heffernan wrote: »

I am fine with whatever is necessary for you to be motivated to look after yourself properly.


Foam rolling immediately prior to weights and pitch sessions is not a great use of time. Personally, I think it's dumb but each to their own.

Far better off doing your 'recovery' work when you are recovering.

I find foam rolling before weights or a pitch session a great use of my time

madfred

Will Heffernan wrote: »

Sounds like you need to work on that.


Holistically.


How long is a piece of hamstring?

Lots of reasons...some of which might be mobility issues...anywhere for ankle to back and everywhere in between, could be osteological...leg length discrepancy, could be as a result of previous injury...scar tissue build up and on and on the list goes.


No.

Thanks Will. When you say I need to work on that, what would that work involve?

Have had a back injury before. Also pulled my other hamstring a few years back playing football. Had a physio tell me in the past that one leg is slightly longer than the other but was also told that this is extremely common.

And why no to that video I posted? Because it's hard to foam roll that area and get enough pressure against your hamstring? Or...??

For what it's worth I did do some of that foam rolling last night before bed. Out of desperation I guess. Woke up this morning and it feels quite tender.

Edit: Also forgot to add that it's the first time I've trained in a couple of years but it doesn't feel like DOMS.

Will Heffernan

nice_guy80 wrote: »

I find foam rolling before weights or a pitch session a great use of my time

When you say 'find'...do you mean you have evaluated it scientifically? Is it more a matter of anecdotally you that you have reduced your rate of injury when compared to not foam rolling? Maybe you just 'find' it is a great use because you just enjoy it...I find standing around talking shop and shooting the sh*t before training a great use of my time but I wouldn't recommend it to everyone. You know what I think...I think that people got along just fine before foam rolling. People survived training at rugby before skins were invented. I am old enough to remember when people used to wear leg warmers in the gym. I remember when people used to wear stupid wrist bracelets with crystals in them to improve their power and balance (oh wait...do people still do that).

See the thing is...training, human health and performance can be stripped back...it can be stripped back to really simple 'fundamentals'. Everything else is just fluff. I see fat people foam rolling. I see people with poor with poor mobility foam rolling. I see plenty of people who can't see the forest for the trees.

If you have time, money, inclination...all the fluff is fine...foam rolling is fine. I foam roll...I do it when I do recovery sessions and have the time. I would never choose foam rolling over a proper staged warm up and structured mobility work prior to a training session though.

Like I said though....each to their own.

Zombienosh

I still don't fully understand foam rolling, is it done in place of stretching or in conjunction with stretching?

nice_guy80

Will Heffernan wrote: »

When you say 'find'...do you mean you have evaluated it scientifically? Is it more a matter of anecdotally you that you have reduced your rate of injury when compared to not foam rolling? Maybe you just 'find' it is a great use because you just enjoy it...I find standing around talking shop and shooting the sh*t before training a great use of my time but I wouldn't recommend it to everyone. You know what I think...I think that people got along just fine before foam rolling. People survived training at rugby before skins were invented. I am old enough to remember when people used to wear leg warmers in the gym. I remember when people used to wear stupid wrist bracelets with crystals in them to improve their power and balance (oh wait...do people still do that).

See the thing is...training, human health and performance can be stripped back...it can be stripped back to really simple 'fundamentals'. Everything else is just fluff. I see fat people foam rolling. I see people with poor with poor mobility foam rolling. I see plenty of people who can't see the forest for the trees.

If you have time, money, inclination...all the fluff is fine...foam rolling is fine. I foam roll...I do it when I do recovery sessions and have the time. I would never choose foam rolling over a proper staged warm up and structured mobility work prior to a training session though.

Like I said though....each to their own.

I've tried training with and without foam rolling, both in the gym and field

I do agree that training should be paired back to the fundamentals. however, if I have 15 mins to use, foam roll is a good use of that time

Will Heffernan

nice_guy80 wrote: »

I've tried training with and without foam rolling, both in the gym and field

If it 'works' for you then that's all that matters.

I do agree that training should be paired back to the fundamentals. however, if I have 15 mins to use, foam roll is a good use of that time

In short I wasn't targeting all my comments directly at you..I was just talking out loud and in general...1. What I was getting at was that you need to prioritise your training to ensure that you are doing what is going to give you the most bang for your buck....and if you have major mobility issues then foam rolling is not going to get the job done. 2. In your particular case...I agree...I would tend to approach my foam rolling the same way...in that if I have the time...it is easier enough for me to talk sh*t and annoy people at training/work WHILE foam rolling.

Mellor

Zombienosh wrote: »

I still don't fully understand foam rolling, is it done in place of stretching or in conjunction with stretching?

Yes.

madfred

madfred wrote: »

Thanks Will. When you say I need to work on that, what would that work involve?

Have had a back injury before. Also pulled my other hamstring a few years back playing football. Had a physio tell me in the past that one leg is slightly longer than the other but was also told that this is extremely common.

And why no to that video I posted? Because it's hard to foam roll that area and get enough pressure against your hamstring? Or...??

For what it's worth I did do some of that foam rolling last night before bed. Out of desperation I guess. Woke up this morning and it feels quite tender.

Edit: Also forgot to add that it's the first time I've trained in a couple of years but it doesn't feel like DOMS.

If you have a second Will

Zombienosh

Mellor wrote: »

Yes.

no

Will Heffernan

Mellor wrote: »

Yes.

Zombienosh wrote: »

No

Yes and No apparently...I'd tend to agree with that.

jugger0

Is foam rolling not in the same vein as getting a sports massage? obviously not as effective but i usually hurt my hip flexor and after a hard rub its back to normal, would using a foam roller on the sore area not be helpful?

Brian?

Zombienosh wrote: »

I still don't fully understand foam rolling, is it done in place of stretching or in conjunction with stretching?

Foam rolling is done as a form of self myofascial release:

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Myofascial_release

I tend to use a roller shaped device* on my quads, upper back and calfs.

I'd use a ball shaped implement* on my hamstrings, pecs and glutes.

*foam roller, grid roller or wavin pipe.

** tennis ball, sliotar or baseball.

thegreatiam

Brian? wrote: »

I tend to use a roller shaped device* on my quads, upper back and calfs.

I'd use a ball shaped implement* on my hamstrings, pecs and glutes.

*foam roller, grid roller or wavin pipe.

** tennis ball, sliotar or baseball.

is there a reason for using a ball on your hammy and not a roller?
My hammys are still tender today and I used a grid roller there yesterday. what difference would a ball make?

Brian?

thegreatiam wrote: »

is there a reason for using a ball on your hammy and not a roller?
My hammys are still tender today and I used a grid roller there yesterday. what difference would a ball make?

I don't really have a technical explanation, it's just better at applying pressure where I need it. I used to use a foam roller on my hamstrings but felt it was becoming ineffective, so I switched to a soft ball and now a baseball.

DylanJM

A ball will have less surface area than a roller so the pressure will be greater. I'd agree with Brian in that I find it hard to get enough weight on to my hamstrings with a roller to the point where it feels like nothing is happening.

LuckyLloyd

Will Heffernan wrote: »

I see fat people foam rolling. I see people with poor with poor mobility foam rolling. I see plenty of people who can't see the forest for the trees.

Hi Will, just wondering why us fatties shouldn't foam roll? Or do you mean to say that our number one priority should be weightloss sans all other effort? Cheers.

Username99

Antisocialiser wrote: »

Ok, there is very little floor space in my office though. Should I maintain eye contact with the 65 yo secretary as I roll my adductors? The raw sexual tension is already at an almost unbearable level so this may just tip her over the edge.

Or do you mean prior to my weights & pitch sessions?

Do it now god dammit, maintain full, steely, eye contact throughout!

thegreatiam

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

Hi Will, just wondering why us fatties shouldn't foam roll? Or do you mean to say that our number one priority should be weightloss sans all other effort? Cheers.

Fatties should be avoiding all types of roll. foam, slow and bread.

DylanJM wrote: »

A ball will have less surface area than a roller so the pressure will be greater. I'd agree with Brian in that I find it hard to get enough weight on to my hamstrings with a roller to the point where it feels like nothing is happening.

ok, i get it. Tbh the hammy part of my rolling routine was a nice respite from the screaming agony of my calfs followed by the tortuous pain of my quads. looks like those halcyon days are over.

oblig inuendo: Cant wait to feel the balls hammering deep in the back of my thighs tonight.

nice_guy80

DylanJM wrote: »

A ball will have less surface area than a roller so the pressure will be greater. I'd agree with Brian in that I find it hard to get enough weight on to my hamstrings with a roller to the point where it feels like nothing is happening.

It's a denser muscle

baseball, hockey, lacrosse or well worn sliotar do a great job of finding the tight spots on a muscle.
very effective for calves, shins, glutes

WHIP IT!

Picked up one of these last week. It's tougher than a tennis ball but not as rock hard as a hockey/lacrosse ball and the ridges aren't as severe as a regular sliothar... Pearl Diver in Lifestyle sports...

thegreatiam

WHIP IT! wrote: »

Picked up one of these last week. It's tougher than a tennis ball but not as rock hard as a hockey/lacrosse ball and the ridges aren't as severe as a regular sliothar... Pearl Diver in Lifestyle sports...

lidl 2.99 last week, should still be some about

edit, just saw that its a different type to what i have.