Bankruptcy Irish Style

KyussBishop

So, if the money in the car is true, this guy is a pretty good candidate for prosecution and for a pretty extensive fraud investigation; if true, and is what it looks like it is, hope he ends up in prison for a long time.

There is little chance of finding all of his assets (and no doubt much of it is well secured out of reach of revenue investigators), so the main deterrent to this kind of fraud I would like to see, is a really hefty prison sentence, or some other form of long-term curtailing of liberties, so there is an actual real deterrent not just a slap on the wrist.

sean200

sure loads of people in the private sector are claiming bankruptcy
It makes me sick to see a private sector business go for bankruptcy and close down
Then they don't pay any of the money they owe to people and next thing you see there business opening up under the name of another family member and debt free
This is the sort of crap that is going on in Ireland today

Mr.Micro

sean200 wrote: »

sure loads of people in the private sector are claiming bankruptcy
It makes me sick to see a private sector business go for bankruptcy and close down
Then they don't pay any of the money they owe to people and next thing you see there business opening up under the name of another family member and debt free
This is the sort of crap that is going on in Ireland today

Indeed, when the average person owes a debt he or she has it until its paid.

jmayo

KyussBishop wrote: »

So, if the money in the car is true, this guy is a pretty good candidate for prosecution and for a pretty extensive fraud investigation; if true, and is what it looks like it is, hope he ends up in prison for a long time.

There is little chance of finding all of his assets (and no doubt much of it is well secured out of reach of revenue investigators), so the main deterrent to this kind of fraud I would like to see, is a really hefty prison sentence, or some other form of long-term curtailing of liberties, so there is an actual real deterrent not just a slap on the wrist.

So maybe we owe a debt of gratitude to the shooter.
Maybe one could say their actions have done the country some service.

sean200 wrote: »

sure loads of people in the private sector are claiming bankruptcy

Ehh it would be nice if a few enterprises in the public sector could go into bankruptcy so that
a) we could close the inefficient badly run ones
and
b) they open again with better management, new harder working staff and a better service to the customers.

sean200 wrote: »

It makes me sick to see a private sector business go for bankruptcy and close down
Then they don't pay any of the money they owe to people and next thing you see there business opening up under the name of another family member and debt free
This is the sort of crap that is going on in Ireland today

And yes we all know about that kind of dodgy behaviour and stop trying to have a pop at private sector because of it.
It is like equating everyone in public sector with the likes roddy molloy, who by coincidence also happens to be from Offaly.

KyussBishop

jmayo wrote: »

So maybe we owe a debt of gratitude to the shooter.
Maybe one could say their actions have done the country some service.

Well, I wouldn't go that far; would be good to see proper enforcement of the law and proper investigation of fraud, so that no 'vigilante's feel the need to start taking things into their own hands, which also harms the innocent members of the wider family (in this case, I'd say the shooter is more likely to be motivated by past business involvement with this person, rather than being a vigilante).

The threat of losing years of your life (potentially decades say) in prison, would be a far heftier deterrent than vigilante's that bodyguards could protect you from.

jmayo

KyussBishop wrote: »

Well, I wouldn't go that far; would be good to see proper enforcement of the law and proper investigation of fraud, so that no 'vigilante's feel the need to start taking things into their own hands, which also harms the innocent members of the wider family (in this case, I'd say the shooter is more likely to be motivated by past business involvement with this person, rather than being a vigilante).

The threat of losing years of your life (potentially decades say) in prison, would be a far heftier deterrent than vigilante's that bodyguards could protect you from.

To paraphrase thomas Jefferson
"I believe our democracy (and our justice system) must be refreshed by the blood of tyrants or more correctly in our case unethical, immoral, inept, greedy and often criminal individuals, even if it is at the hands of the masses".

The biggest leap in dealing with criminals and the spoils of their crimes (the non white collar kind) sadly took the death of a mother, Veronica Guerin.

Likewise the killing by a lone farmer of a would be burgler finally caused some actual discussion of the right of homeowners as against the rights of criminals.

Maybe it is time one of these so called entrepreneurial developers, erstwhile bankers or policticans met a faith that would send a shiver through the rest of them and finally push the establishment (from legislature, justice system, regulatory authorities to police) to actually properly investigate and punish people for their actions which has had disastrous consequences for this state and this society.

We dodn't appear to learnt much from the beef tribunal, planing tribunals, DIRT investigations, clerical abuse investigations, etc.

It is time this country, and it's citizens, began to realise that a lax attitude to right and wrong and the idea that we should compensate for shades of grey will mean we continue to have sections of society above and beyond the law.

I have mentioned CAB above, but yet AFAIK CAB has not investigated any of the developers, ex bankers, ex politcans or sitting ones for that matter.
Perhaps someone can cheer me up by letting us know they have investigated someone, particulalry those who claim they got funds through betting on the nags ?
PS I don't mean john gilligan.

KyussBishop

I can't fault (and agree fully with) all your reasoning as to why the country is in such a bad state, insofar as criminality and fraud, and particularly the lax attitudes for it and even protection of it by the state; I wouldn't be particularly surprised to eventually see instances of vigilante violence against some of the more prominent examples of these people, getting away with ridiculous fraud, because it really does seem like nothing is and nothing will be done about it.

I really hope it doesn't start moving towards violence as a method of dealing with it though, I'd much rather see it dealt with properly within the legal system, or with direct protests and social exclusion of these people; just something that might be effective, other than violence.

If it starts turning to violence, things will have already gotten to a much worse state than they are now, so for that also, I'd like to see reform now rather than the possibility of such violence later.

RichardAnd

rodento wrote: »

Couldn't believe it when I read the papers

I didn't find it all that hard to believe ...

AlekSmart

RichardAnd wrote: »

I didn't find it all that hard to believe ...

Hmmm As the dust dies down,the wording also changes a wee bit....

http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/cash-found-in-boot-of-bankrupt-politicians-car-after-gun-attack-29239273.html

The car was not hit by the shots and gardai said last night they were not sure what type of gun was used in the attack.

They found no evidence of pellets or wadding to indicate that a shotgun had been used.

But they were satisfied that two shots had been fired on the information of the family and another eyewitness.

There's more than a whiff of the Kevin McKeever's about this story methinks.....:(

Padraig Mor

Killally's wife is also bankrupt BTW, so the whole 'she owns half the house' scenario doesn't apply.


BTW, surely there's no way that architectural monstrosity got planning permission in a 'conventional' manner?!

jmayo

KyussBishop wrote: »

I can't fault (and agree fully with) all your reasoning as to why the country is in such a bad state, insofar as criminality and fraud, and particularly the lax attitudes for it and even protection of it by the state; I wouldn't be particularly surprised to eventually see instances of vigilante violence against some of the more prominent examples of these people, getting away with ridiculous fraud, because it really does seem like nothing is and nothing will be done about it.

I really hope it doesn't start moving towards violence as a method of dealing with it though, I'd much rather see it dealt with properly within the legal system, or with direct protests and social exclusion of these people; just something that might be effective, other than violence.

If it starts turning to violence, things will have already gotten to a much worse state than they are now, so for that also, I'd like to see reform now rather than the possibility of such violence later.

Sadly the status quo will remain until a tipping point is reached.
There were too many influential people involved in dodgy deals down through the years for anything meaningful to have been done.
Added to that a lot of the people still hang on a mindset which honours "the cute hoors who get one over on the system".
Saldy these people haven't matured enough to realise their healthcare, their childrens' education, their old age pension, etc is provided by "the system" and they are part of "the system".

Cody Pomeray wrote: »

what is the point of mentioning the names of 4 innocent children in a thread, some of them apparently toddlers...

Open discussion is one thing, but sifting through Births, Deaths & Marriages is a bit excessive don't you think.

Is it just me or are the kids' names are as pretentious as the gaff in Offaly ?

Padraig Mor wrote: »

Killally's wife is also bankrupt BTW, so the whole 'she owns half the house' scenario doesn't apply.


BTW, surely there's no way that architectural monstrosity got planning permission in a 'conventional' manner?!

Planning if for the little guy not someone a member of a political party, especially fianna fail.
Wasn't he chairman of the county council and biffos running mate.
Hell biffo the younger wished him well when some of his tribulations, ehh dodgy deals, came to light.

Cody Pomeray

jmayo wrote: »

Is it just me or are the kids' names are as pretentious as the gaff in Offaly ?

who cares

Lbeard

Technoprisoner wrote: »

I believe there will be an awful lot of potential suspects on the list.

Who shot JR?

Lbeard

From the The Sunday World

http://www.sundayworld.com/columnists/sw-irish-crime.php

Our exclusive photograph shows an IOU for €281,000 that Killally gave his neighbour Joe in 2010. Joe has hit the headlines recently when photographs were published of him travelling around Co. Offaly with a large billboard criticising Killally.

Speaking from his home, Joe said: "I don't have any sympathy for him, I feel nothing. I have sympathy for my wife and kids who have been left with nothing.

"I don't read and I don't write, but I was told that Killally ran away from the scene to draw off the raiders. He caught me for a lot of money and money that I'd have worked hard for."

How does someone who can't even read or write build up a cash sum of €281,000? Most university graduates wouldn't have that money on hand.

A before anyone says "he worked herd fer it". Poor Joe made his money in the same bildin trade as Ger and Barry Cowen.

The terrible thing that really gets me, is wealth was built up in Ireland through people going to school, working hard, and then not getting fantastic wages working for multinationals. And then these ignorant spud munchers who can neither read nor write splash the cash like JR Ewings.

jmayo

Lbeard wrote: »

From the The Sunday World

http://www.sundayworld.com/columnists/sw-irish-crime.php

Our exclusive photograph shows an IOU for €281,000 that Killally gave his neighbour Joe in 2010. Joe has hit the headlines recently when photographs were published of him travelling around Co. Offaly with a large billboard criticising Killally.

Speaking from his home, Joe said: "I don't have any sympathy for him, I feel nothing. I have sympathy for my wife and kids who have been left with nothing.

"I don't read and I don't write, but I was told that Killally ran away from the scene to draw off the raiders. He caught me for a lot of money and money that I'd have worked hard for."

How does someone who can't even read or write build up a cash sum of €281,000? Most university graduates wouldn't have that money on hand.

A before anyone says "he worked herd fer it". Poor Joe made his money in the same bildin trade as Ger and Barry Cowen.

The terrible thing that really gets me, is wealth was built up in Ireland through people going to school, working hard, and then not getting fantastic wages working for multinationals. And then these ignorant spud munchers who can neither read nor write splash the cash like JR Ewings.

Ehh you don't have to have gone to university to make money, or for that matter finished school.
And to work hard you don't have to have fulfilled the above criteria either.

Frankly your post ranks of a superiority complex.
There have been a lot of smart guys who have done alright without formal education.
Granted most of them would have learnt to read and write and not as gullible or greedy as this genteman.

Oh and some of the ones with high levels of formal education are frankly morons when it comes to the real world and can be equally as greedy and gullible given half the chance.

Oh and to really rock your little boat, a lot of the ones who were splashing the cash as you put it during the bubble, and are now probably up to their ears in debts, are from the professional classes who have finished school, university and attained formal professional qualifications.

Or did you fail to notice all those accountants, solictors, barristers, pharmacists, doctors, etc who got onboard the celtic bubble train to riches ?

fish slapped

Lbeard wrote: »

The terrible thing that really gets me, is wealth was built up in Ireland through people going to school, working hard, and then not getting fantastic wages working for multinationals. And then these ignorant spud munchers who can neither read nor write splash the cash like JR Ewings.

Lbeard, I find you own ignorance truly unbelievable. To call a Law abiding man, who has built up and maintained a company without out the benefit of basic literacy skills, let alone a third level education, an " ignorant spud munchers" is a display of issues you yourself carry.

I would suggest you seek alternative employment if your unhappy working for a multinational. Perhaps Joe could employ you to butter his spuds.

Lbeard

fish slapped wrote: »

Lbeard, I find you own ignorance truly unbelievable.

At least I can read and write.

To call a Law abiding man, who has built up and maintained a company without out the benefit of basic literacy skills,

How does someone without the benefit of literacy build up a company in this day and age? If he can't even use a phone book, how does he find customers? How does he read the instructions on a bag of cement? If he can't read the terms and conditions on financial document?

I would say he was one of these guys the council sorts of for jobs building bockety paths and walls. Builders love Fianna Fail for a reason.

Joe probably failed to learn to read because he went to one of these bockety Irish national schools, where the teachers all had their jobs through being pally with the parish priest, or being someone's nephew. Some lazy ignorant rural teacher, who couldn't give a damn. "get out your copy books lads"

But where Joe displays a laziness, is when he was an adult with plenty of money he did not get a tutor to teach him to read. He could have paid them a fraction of his hourly rate. 1 hour a week for a year or two. I know this because my mother used to tutor illiterate builders. And there were a lot of illiterate people in Ireland as we had so many lazy teachers, only in the job because it was sorted out for them.

let alone a third level education, an " ignorant spud munchers" is a display of issues you yourself carry.

What do you want me to call them? Geniuses? Every builder was during the boom, weren't they.

I would suggest you seek alternative employment if your unhappy working for a multinational.

No one is happy working for a multinational. The money is crap, and so is the treatment. But, if all the people working for the mulitnationals stopped, who is going to pay for the mess the big thick eejits caused?

Perhaps Joe could employ you to butter his spuds.

Where is Joe going to get money for spuds, let alone butter. Ger Killaly has his money long gone.

but a very important question

If you think Joe is such a fine man. Would you buy a house or apartment built by someone who could not read and write? Or do you think it might go all Priory Hall on you?

Would you?

fish slapped

So you're telling me your education was paid for by " ignorant spud munchers" and lazy builders learning to read...

You say no one is happy working for a multinational ... you have spoken to and ask each and every one of them??

You know every illiterate builder in the country and you know they all attended rural bockety national schools with "lazy ignorant rural teacher, who couldn't give a damn"??

You are very quick to make shameful and damning generalisations about people, you don't know, without fact or evidence only the mere presumption from an unhappy amatuer sociologest, clearly working from Auguste Comte's one sided functionalist perspective.

Is it so hard to be civil and respect people, not everyone is out to get you and not everyone is as negative as you expect.

You criticise people and the system, yet you justify your own unhappiness and frustration by playing the ... well someone has to ... card. Well how about you make a stand and do your bit to change the system... instead of just criticising it??

fish slapped

As to buying a house from "Joe" , I don't know him, but I know many people bought houses ans built houses in the last 10/15 years that are happy with theirs ... so why not??

Hootanany

the culture of deference wrote: »

He also spent all his money buying all the copies of some SH!TE chick lit book Published by an unknown in 2004, it was the number 1 bestseller in Ireland (for 19 weeks). Then a movie was made but the work has stirred up some controversy for its close similarity to a 1997 Korean film entitled "The Letter" .

Please tell me this is true.