Red water

larrymiller

Just back in from the shed, found 2 calves with what I think is red water disease, never had it here before, what advice can anyone give me (ASAP) w
Won't be able to get them to the vet till tomorrow at the earliest!

freedominacup

larrymiller wrote: »

Just back in from the shed, found 2 calves with what I think is red water disease, never had it here before, what advice can anyone give me (ASAP) w
Won't be able to get them to the vet till tomorrow at the earliest!

Unless they are outdoors it would be unusual for them to have red water and AFAIK red water is not very common in calves at all. Why do you think they have red water?

larrymiller

That's what I was thinking, yesterday I moved them from calf pens to the shed, and 2 heifers are passing red urine, for the world it looks like red wine on the ground with a small bit of frought, both are ok eating well etc and seem ok, I haven't seen anything like it, boss man won't be home till later to get his opinion either

mf240

What are they eating? Any other symptoms?

larrymiller

mf240 wrote: »

What are they eating? Any other symptoms?

There finished getting milk, eating nuts with a bit of crunch mixed in it, and hay and straw mixed, (no silage) no other symptoms as of yet

micky mouse

larrymiller wrote: »

That's what I was thinking, yesterday I moved them from calf pens to the shed, and 2 heifers are passing red urine, for the world it looks like red wine on the ground with a small bit of frought, both are ok eating well etc and seem ok, I haven't seen anything like it, boss man won't be home till later to get his opinion either

Sounds like water allright,could you not get the injection of the vet to cure it,thats what i do when mine do have it.If both are eating that injection will be ok.Long time till "tomorrow at earliest".Easier to give injection than maybe blood transfusion

TUBBY

If it red water, tomorrow may be no use to you. Can you not get vet to give you imazol for it. It is the only thing that stops the bleed afaik. Don't take my word for it. Ring the vet. Few hours even make a big difference.

KatyMac

You'd be mad to wait til tomorrow. I had one and waited, the vet was coming in the afternoon to read a herd test so I thought he'd do all on the one visit. She didn't need to be taken off test!!

dharn

KatyMac wrote: »

You'd be mad to wait til tomorrow. I had one and waited, the vet was coming in the afternoon to read a herd test so I thought he'd do all on the one visit. She didn't need to be taken off test!!

I thought red water was caused by a tic picked up in grass from wet ground usually later in the year how would young calves get it

Dunedin

larrymiller wrote: »

Just back in from the shed, found 2 calves with what I think is red water disease, never had it here before, what advice can anyone give me (ASAP) w
Won't be able to get them to the vet till tomorrow at the earliest!

this sounds like blood scour. Easy enough to cure if it is. Get a bottle of Nordine , but wouldn't wait till tomorrow if you can

The hawlk

If a calf takes a big gorge of water like after the water was off for hole day or so the pee can run very red I have seen it here a couple of times still I always treat it with Imazol anyway, that is why they don't have to be outside to show signs of red water !

larrymiller

The hawlk wrote: »

If a calf takes a big gorge of water like after the water was off for hole day or so the pee can run very red I have seen it here a couple of times still I always treat it with Imazol anyway, that is why they don't have to be outside to show signs of red water !

You are bang on, the calves were moved to the cattle shed and the couldn't reach the water properly, and lashed water into them when I copped it! Thankfully everything's ok now and back to normal!

whelan1

be very careful, if they drink too much water in one go they can get water posioning, saw it in calves years ago, they where going round like they where drunk;)

dharn

larrymiller wrote: »

You are bang on, the calves were moved to the cattle shed and the couldn't reach the water properly, and lashed water into them when I copped it! Thankfully everything's ok now and back to normal!

Thats not redwater though, they were passing bloodstained urine because their kidneys were stressed from dehydration and then suddenly drinking large amounts, nothing to do with the redwater tic

larrymiller

dharn wrote: »

Thats not redwater though, they were passing bloodstained urine because their kidneys were stressed from dehydration and then suddenly drinking large amounts, nothing to do with the redwater tic

Yes sorry I ment to point out that it wasn't red water (thank god) I'll just put it down to a learning experience gave myself a fair fright doh!!

dharn

Glad it all worked out well, well bred heifers will be very valuable when things settle down ,a lot of cows died this year

learnabout

whelan1 wrote: »

be very careful, if they drink too much water in one go they can get water posioning, saw it in calves years ago, they where going round like they where drunk;)

what???

Bodacious

i had a cow with redwater last year ...just a point as with all medicines ,,.. its a vaccine and it has to be fresh.. I got the imizol from a neighbour as I knew she would get it as she was a dairy cow from clean topped pastures etc and she would have no immunity.. covered her with pour on also


stuff must have been open a while as she still got it.. got 12ml of imizol from vet and loaded the treacle/Guinness/ eggs and salt and water into her and she made full recovery.. due to calf soon and I sold E3100 worth of beef out of her in 2013/14 season .. she reared 3 bull calves 1 stronger and a sept set of twins

greysides

Imizol isn't a vaccine although it may seem to act like one. The immunity-generating material has to come from exposure as there's none in the bottle. It prevents infection becoming clinical while the animal builds up its own immunity. It won't work if there is no exposure during the period of time the Imizol is protective. Same story as Vecoxan.

tanko

greysides wrote: »

Imizol isn't a vaccine although it may seem to act like one. The immunity-generating material has to come from exposure as there's none in the bottle. It prevents infection becoming clinical while the animal builds up its own immunity. It won't work if there is no exposure during the period of time the Imizol is protective. Same story as Vecoxan.

How long is imizol protective for after it's given?

greysides

tanko wrote: »

How long is imizol protective for after it's given?

When used for prevention, the product should be administered when clinical signs of the disease are observed in one or
two cattle of a group or at the time of moving susceptible cattle into an area of known Babesia challenge. The entire
group should be dosed to provide protection against babesiosis, and all must be kept to the withhold times indicated.
The product gives protection for a period of up to four weeks depending on the severity of the challenge. During this
time, only if the challenge is adequate will immunity be established.

bonaparte2

Isn't there a really long withdrawal period with imizol?

greysides

213 days.

http://www.hpra.ie/img/uploaded/swedocuments/LicenseSPC_10996-234-001_25072013115937.pdf

tanko

greysides wrote: »

When used for prevention, the product should be administered when clinical signs of the disease are observed in one or
two cattle of a group or at the time of moving susceptible cattle into an area of known Babesia challenge. The entire
group should be dosed to provide protection against babesiosis, and all must be kept to the withhold times indicated.
The product gives protection for a period of up to four weeks depending on the severity of the challenge. During this
time, only if the challenge is adequate will immunity be established.

Thanks for that, is there a certain date every year when you expect to see problems with redwater eg may 15 or does it vary from year to year?

greysides

I don't see much at all now. That could be location.

The start of the season will be when the ticks become active so there will be some variation there.

In Cavan you could see it through out the year, including Christmas week................. it would make you question the theory of it alright.

tanko

greysides wrote: »

I don't see much at all now. That could be location.

The start of the season will be when the ticks become active so there will be some variation there.

In Cavan you could see it through out the year, including Christmas week................. it would make you question the theory of it alright.

Yeah, I've an outfarm with rough ground and any animals not born there and put on it are almost guaranteed to get redwater. It's almost always happens between May and August.
It says in the blurb above that imizol should only be given to an animal once. If it was given as a preventative and you thought it was given too soon then it can't be given again, is that the case?

greysides

It's active for a month so that should be long enough to cover seasonal variations but given what the datasheet says I wouldn't be inclined to repeat the injection.

Limestone Cowboy

At what age does red water become life threatening to cattle Greysides? All of our own cattle would have become immune as calves due to the nature of the area we are farming and I would know locally where is safe to buy cattle out of if I was buying in stock but it's a nuisance all the same. The only case of it I ever had was a stock bull I bought and had treated with imizol a few months previously when there was plenty of ticks inside his legs but there's no guarantee with that either. Lucky I spotted him very early and there was no setback really.

greysides

I can't give you a specific age. Off the top of my head I'd say animals in their second year at grass. Generally once immune as calves it will be boosted naturally each Spring. While it's spread by ticks, the ticks themselves have to be infested........ Like your experience, early detection is key to an uneventful recovery. Many old stockmen made their reputations by being able to spot animals early. It took observation which takes time........

Toplink

Is bayticol the best prevention injection for Red Water?

We have a herd of 25 grazing in a risk area for the past 3 to 4 weeks and its coming into tick season now so think its time to give them a shot of something. Some of the group would have a certain level of immunity but most of them wouldn't.

P_Cash

bayticol isnt an injections, its a pour on.

and yes, its the best there is imo.

used it on this farm for 20+ years, very few cases of red water .

some people use it twice/3 times a year.

but ive found on my farm, middle of may, and that does it.

there all out now, so ill bring them in and pass them trough the shoot when we are promised a dry spell, then let them out.

i think over years the benefit is gained

a vet told me, the bayticol makes the tick infertile, so the ticks around my farm are long gone. . .

he said you dad was the first man i ever seen with bayticol and it certainly works. no red water here for 10+ years, honest truth on the matter.

Toplink

P_Cash wrote: »

bayticol isnt an injections, its a pour on.

and yes, its the best there is imo.

used it on this farm for 20+ years, very few cases of red water .

some people use it twice/3 times a year.

but ive found on my farm, middle of may, and that does it.

there all out now, so ill bring them in and pass them trough the shoot when we are promised a dry spell, then let them out.

i think over years the benefit is gained

a vet told me, the bayticol makes the tick infertile, so the ticks around my farm are long gone. . .

he said you dad was the first man i ever seen with bayticol and it certainly works. no red water here for 10+ years, honest truth on the matter.

Thanks for your reply. Thats inline with everything I am hearing. Looks like its available in both pouron and injection. Pouron is 15% cheaper.

I said

Use bayticol at turnout every year pricey but it's the best to use.every six to eight weeks they get a dose of youngs poron.
Prevention is better than cure they can go down fairly rapid if not spotted early.As I work of farm I can't take a chance

MfMan

What's the hold period on Bayticol?

tanko

MfMan wrote: »

What's the hold period on Bayticol?

Not certain but think it's only 5 days for beef and 10 days for milk.

tom_k

tanko wrote: »

Not certain but think it's only 5 days for beef and 10 days for milk.

That's right, definitely preferable to the seven month withdrawal period of imizol although I realise I'm not comparing like with like.

keep going

Keep a close eye on stock, by all accounts red water is rampent in west cork.had a case myself and neighbour rang with another in his place tonight

tanko

keep going wrote: »

Keep a close eye on stock, by all accounts red water is rampent in west cork.had a case myself and neighbour rang with another in his place tonight

Were those cases in bought in cattle which hadn't been on the ground where they picked up the ticks before?

Nettleman

Im using Zearl for worms and it is supposed to cover for ticks too...Would suck calves pick up ticks, should they be done as well with this weather the way it is???

keep going

tanko wrote: »

Were those cases in bought in cattle which hadn't been on the ground where they picked up the ticks before?

In my case it was newly rented ground but in my friends case home bred cow

Limestone Cowboy

Nettleman wrote: »

Im using Zearl for worms and it is supposed to cover for ticks too...Would suck calves pick up ticks, should they be done as well with this weather the way it is???

Ticks will do a suck calf no harm other than making them immune to picking up redwater later on in life.

Toplink

So by the by the reading of the online instructions its 2ml for every 10KG.

So a 300kg weanling would need 60ml applied.

I have 20 for doing :mad:

Bullocks

Toplink wrote: »

So by the by the reading of the online instructions its 2ml for every 10KG.

So a 300kg weanling would need 60ml applied.

I have 20 for doing :mad:

What are you using ?

Toplink

Bullocks wrote: »

What are you using ?

Bayticol pour on

Bullocks

Toplink wrote: »

Bayticol pour on

I must look but I thought it was just a 10ml dribble on ours last year . 60 seems a lot

Bullocks

Bullocks wrote: »

I must look but I thought it was just a 10ml dribble on ours last year . 60 seems a lot

Sorry I had a look there and it seems you're right !

tanko

I've heard it said that pig slurry helps to get rid of ticks, I wonder is there any truth to this?

greysides

tanko wrote: »

I've heard it said that pig slurry helps to get rid of ticks, I wonder is there any truth to this?

Certainly helps to get rid of anyone that might go finding ticks.........:)

tom_k

I suppose this applies to everything but it's definitely worth shopping around for best prices on Bayticol. €29 difference for 1 litre pack from cheapest to dearest when I got mine last week.

Kovu

tom_k wrote: »

I suppose this applies to everything but it's definitely worth shopping around for best prices on Bayticol. €29 difference for 1 litre pack from cheapest to dearest when I got mine last week.

Wasn't it €100 for a 1litre bottle from Agridirect? Got an email about it but we've half a litre left here.

tom_k

Kovu wrote: »

Wasn't it €100 for a 1litre bottle from Agridirect? Got an email about it but we've half a litre left here.

Yes, that's the best online value. I paid €99 locally for it with the same thing priced at €128 across town.