If Gaelic Football had a transfer market, who would be most the valuable player?

MaroonAndGreen

Joe.ie say Michael Murphy would be, followed by Lacey, Aidan O'Shea and Bernard Brogan, what ye think lads?

Connorzee

Definately Mick Murphy... the hurling equivalent of Joe Canning. Can turn a game by himself. IMO, i wouldnt have Bernard Brogan near it. Declan O'Sullivan in Kerry, Colm O'Neill (before the injury) or Aidan Walsh in Cork i'd rank ahead of him.

MaroonAndGreen

Walsh was ranked 7th.

Top ten on Joe.ie is:

10. Ger Cafferkey (Mayo)
9. Bryan Sheehan (Kerry)
8. Ciaran Kilkenny (Dublin)
7. Aidan Walsh (Cork)
6. Paul Flynn (Dublin)
5. Jamie Clarke (Armagh)
4. Bernard Brogan (Dublin)
3. Aidan O’Shea (Mayo)
2. Karl Lacey (Donegal)
1. Michael Murphy (Donegal)

Syferus

You can only look cross-eyed at a list that has Bryan Sheehan at 9 but Gooch is no where to be seen and a lad who can count his championship startsfor his county on a single digit at 8 (and don't tell me it's some sort of insurance policy on what he can become, there's far surer bets out there). It's pretty easy to tell which team's games the writer attends.

Murphy is very good but the love has went overboard since Donegal won the AI and even then in most of those matches he was only Donegal's second most important forward. The best thing that ever happened to Murphy was having a madman like McGuiness to drive him to a level of fitness very few players his size reach.

keeponhurling

Bit of a nonsense list, but presumably the most valuable would be forwards as scores win matches.
Murphy, Brogan or Gooch. (perhaps age might preclude the Gooch, but in his day he'd be the one they all would want)
McFadden from Donegal is another class forward.

corny

I know they're pushing on in age but Bernard Brogan or Gooch for me.

Certainly both are far more influential for their teams than Murphy is for Donegal.

keeponhurling

I'm not sure.
Isn't the entire Donegal strategy based on having two forwards who can win their own ball, and score.

Not sure Brogan or Gooch would be as effective if they were as isolated up front.

WayneMolloy

keeponhurling wrote: »

I'm not sure.
Isn't the entire Donegal strategy based on having two forwards who can win their own ball, and score.

Not sure Brogan or Gooch would be as effective if they were as isolated up front.

Brogan won the 2010 player of the year award after playing most of the championship up front with Eoin O'Gara.

Its a role he has proven he can excel at.

Cluxton should be in that list imho.

His kickouts and shot stopping skills are near perfection. His freekicks aint too shabby either;)

corny

keeponhurling wrote: »

Not sure Brogan or Gooch would be as effective if they were as isolated up front.

Seriously? Bernard Brogan won footballer of the year in 2010 when isolated up front with EOG. Cork put two men on him and he still ended up with 1-7. He'd nine (all from play) in the previous game against Tyrone. Fair play to you for finding a weakness in Gooch's game too. He's been a one man show his entire career.

According to a quick Wiki search Michael Murphy scored a grand total of two points from play last year. Colm McFadden was easily their most influential player.

For me its not even close.

ThunbergsAreGo

http://www.joe.ie/gaa/gaa-features/if-the-gaa-had-a-transfer-market-whod-be-the-most-valuable-player-0037048-1

http://www.joe.ie/gaa/gaa-features/if-the-gaa-had-a-transfer-market-whod-be-the-most-valuable-player-part-ii-0037055-1

Links above

Boom__Boom

Syferus wrote: »

You can only look cross-eyed at a list that has Bryan Sheehan at 9 but Gooch is no where to be seen and a lad who can count his championship startsfor his county on a single digit at 8 (and don't tell me it's some sort of insurance policy on what he can become, there's far surer bets out there). It's pretty easy to tell which team's games the writer attends.

Murphy is very good but the love has went overboard since Donegal won the AI and even then in most of those matches he was only Donegal's second most important forward. The best thing that ever happened to Murphy was having a madman like McGuiness to drive him to a level of fitness very few players his size reach.

I found the Bryan Sheehan ranking especially amusing as there is a serious chance he might not be in Kerry's starting 15 in the Championship given the way Buckley has been performing in the league - he's been close enough to Kerry's best player in every league game he's played, kicking some stunning long distance points. When you compare his levels of performance to how Sheehan has performed for Kerry this year it's a no-brainer at this stage. Unless Sheehan really turns it around between now and the first game of the Championship , it will be Maher and Buckley starting midfield for Kerry.

The fact is that Gooch is 29 (I think some people think he's a few years older because he has been around so long) Not beyond the bounds of possibility that he could easily have another 5 Championships left in him, especially if he maintains his policy of resting through the league. Writing off one of the top scorers of all-time (I think only Matt Connor has scored more than him in the Championship) due to age at 29 seems a bit rash.

mickmackey1

Boom__Boom wrote: »

The fact is that Gooch is 29 (I think some people think he's a few years older because he has been around so long) Not beyond the bounds of possibility that he could easily have another 5 Championships left in him, especially if he maintains his policy of resting through the league. Writing off one of the top scorers of all-time (I think only Matt Connor has scored more than him in the Championship) due to age at 29 seems a bit rash.

I think it's more to do with mileage on the clock rather than his age, but no doubt I would pay more to see Gooch play than any other footballer since Maurice Fitz. Pure class.

keane2097

This is just a list of high profile players. If there were transfers I'd be looking at players like Brendan Murphy, Niall McNamee, Kilbride, Ciaran McDonald etc. Pretty lazy stuff really.

Mr. Incognito

1. Gooch
2. Brogan
3. M. Murphy
4. Cluxton
5. Marc o shea

The rest are much of muchness. Aidan o Shea is better at ff for me. Thomas is too old. Donegal are a team, not individuals, same as cork and Kildare.

Take gooch out of Kerry and they lost every league game. They won every game he played.

Anyone that has sheehan and Kilkenny ahead of these players is a moron.

Also, the authors assertion that a 19 year old Rooney is better than a 27. Year old Rooney? . Not in the real world, this guys been playing too many championship manager games.

Thinkstoomuch

Ciaran Sheehan of Cork, I'm suprised he has not got a mention. Still he is only 23 and we have still to see the best of him.Only for injuries he would be of been a star the last two years.
He has pace,strength,athleticsim,and a superb kick passer of the ball,and a good reader of the game.
Not only can he score from long distance,but he creates other scores for other players also.
Against Donegal in last years All Ireland Semi final he scored 3 points but he also created so many scores for others.He gave the pass for O Neill's goal.He is the type of player that not only can kick a pass,but he see's a pass that is on that other players don't.
He could play anywhere from midfield up,and would be not be out of place in either of those positions.
He has so much football he could even make a top class centre back,such is the modern role nowdays.
He has played for Club at centre back.
He would make any county team.
He's main weakness is he is injury prone unfortunately.

Jack Lumber

My list.

1. Stephen O'Neill
2. Michael Murphy
3. Colm Cooper
4. Bernard Brogan
5. Declan O'Sullivan
6. Seán Cavanagh
7. John Doyle
8. Colm McFadden
9. Karl Lacey
10. Aidan Walsh

Forwards will always cost the most in any transfer market hence why they dominate my list.

Jack Lumber

Mr. Incognito wrote: »

1. Gooch
2. Brogan
3. M. Murphy
4. Cluxton
5. Marc o shea

The rest are much of muchness. Aidan o Shea is better at ff for me. Thomas is too old. Donegal are a team, not individuals, same as cork and Kildare.

Take gooch out of Kerry and they lost every league game. They won every game he played.

Anyone that has sheehan and Kilkenny ahead of these players is a moron.

Also, the authors assertion that a 19 year old Rooney is better than a 27. Year old Rooney? . Not in the real world, this guys been playing too many championship manager games.

Cluxton?

Gerrupoutathat..

Mr. Incognito

Jack Lumber wrote: »

Cluxton?

Gerrupoutathat..

Yes. Cluxton.

His kick outs are accurate, his save stats over every season he has played are exceptional and on top of that he had the bottle to kick a point to win an all ireland two minutes into injury time with 83,000 people screaming at him.

Do you know any other players that have been in that situation in the last ten years in an all ireland final?

and I am a Kerry man.

Thinkstoomuch

Mr. Incognito wrote: »

Yes. Cluxton.

His kick outs are accurate, his save stats over every season he has played are exceptional and on top of that he had the bottle to kick a point to win an all ireland two minutes into injury time with 83,000 people screaming at him.

Do you know any other players that have been in that situation in the last ten years in an all ireland final?

and I am a Kerry man.

Not agreeing or disagreeing with your views on Cluxton but Daniel Goulding was in a similar position as he was under immense pressure in the final in 2010 with a 45'he scored with normal time up.Okay Cork were two ahead,but that was their was just as much pressure on him,miss that and a goal below and Cork were beaten.Their was still two minutes injury time left as he kicked the 45.Their was 20 years weight of expectation on him also.
As it turned out,two late Down points in injury time proved how crucial it was.
That was in front of a nearly full Croke Park as well .
Goulding got 6 from seven placed balls that day,only missed one,and at that it just dropped short in to the hands of the Goalkeeper.

Jack Lumber

Mr. Incognito wrote: »

Yes. Cluxton.

His kick outs are accurate, his save stats over every season he has played are exceptional and on top of that he had the bottle to kick a point to win an all ireland two minutes into injury time with 83,000 people screaming at him.

Do you know any other players that have been in that situation in the last ten years in an all ireland final?

and I am a Kerry man.

Other than Cluxton, no I haven't so we'll never know who has the bottle will we?

Bit of a silly question TBH.

Mountainlad

corny wrote: »

Seriously? Bernard Brogan won footballer of the year in 2010 when isolated up front with EOG. Cork put two men on him and he still ended up with 1-7. He'd nine (all from play) in the previous game against Tyrone. Fair play to you for finding a weakness in Gooch's game too. He's been a one man show his entire career.

According to a quick Wiki search Michael Murphy scored a grand total of two points from play last year. Colm McFadden was easily their most influential player.

For me its not even close.

Ah wikipedia living up to its reputation for being very unreliable. Not sure what Murphy scored from play last year, but without even being the closest watcher of inter county football (and particularly not Donegal) I can clearly remember him scoring a goal in the All-Ireland final. Having a player that can change a game like that is probably what would be valued most in a transfer market. Not saying he'd be the most valuable but certainly he'd be up there.

And age is surely a factor, he's only 24 this year.

Big Pussy Bonpensiero

Mountainlad wrote: »

Ah wikipedia living up to its reputation for being very unreliable. Not sure what Murphy scored from play last year, but without even being the closest watcher of inter county football (and particularly not Donegal) I can clearly remember him scoring a goal in the All-Ireland final. Having a player that can change a game like that is probably what would be valued most in a transfer market. Not saying he'd be the most valuable but certainly he'd be up there.

And age is surely a factor, he's only 24 this year.

He's talking about points though??

And I wouldn't say he's far off. I remember he had scored something ridiculously little going into the AI final. He's clearly an exceptional player, but I can't see how anyone would have him down as the most valuable GAA player.

Mountainlad

THFC wrote: »

He's talking about points though??

And I wouldn't say he's far off. I remember he had scored something ridiculously little going into the AI final. He's clearly an exceptional player, but I can't see how anyone would have him down as the most valuable GAA player.

Maybe he was, probably unfair though to leave out a goal as important as that though when assessing his performance/ability. How you view his actual abilities would probably be more important rather than looking simply at how much they scored in a particular year. Joe Canning scored something like 1-5 from play in the three meaningful games in 2009, and even less I would imagine against Waterford and Dublin in 2011. Yet, he would be by far and away the most valuable player in a transfer market in hurling.

For me Gooch and Brogan are better forwards, but the way transfer markets work I could see Murphy's getting a higher fee on account of his age and experience for someone so young.

J Cheever Loophole

Very pleased that our absolute mediocrity has not prevented Jamie Clarke's greatness from being recognised - even if it is just a bit of harmless fun designed to generate a bit of discussion.

Syferus

J Cheever Loophole wrote: »

Very pleased that our absolute mediocrity has not prevented Jamie Clarke's greatness from being recognised - even if it is just a bit of harmless fun designed to generate a bit of discussion.

Probably the only forward more elusive than Gooch. There's no more talented a forward in Ireland but there are forwards who can use their physicality in ways Clarke can't and that brings them closer to him overall.

Lapin

I can't believe Cluxton isn't on that list.

Definitely the most valuable keeper if there was such a market and worth more than a lot of outfield free takers too.

MaroonAndGreen

Lapin wrote: »

I can't believe Cluxton isn't on that list.

Definitely the most valuable keeper if there was such a market and worth more than a lot of outfield free takers too.

He was at No.19, and was the only keeper on the list

jive

Cluxton is 31 and a goalkeeper. Nobody is doubting his ability but if it's value you're talking about then forwards are always going to be far more valuable, particularly young forwards. If predicted value on a fictional transfer market is the criteria for the list then obviously people like Michael Murphy, Aidan O'Shea, Aidan Walsh, Jamie Clarke etc. will dominate. Others who around their prime (typically ~27) will also be prevalent such as Gooch, Bernard Brogan, Karl Lacey

J Cheever Loophole

Syferus wrote: »

Probably the only forward more elusive than Gooch. There's no more talented a forward in Ireland but there are forwards who can use their physicality in ways Clarke can't and that brings them closer to him overall.

A lot of truth in that - Jamie obviously lacks in the physical stakes - he once famously stated (well it's famous around our way ) that he wouldn't do weights training because if he bulked himself up, his skinny jeans would no longer fit!!

When I watch Jamie though, I'm always reminded about how martial arts experts talk about using the greater physical strength of opponents to their advantage. Jamie is absolutely expert at being able to use his body to shield the ball and turn opponents on a sixpence.

keane2097

Yeah there aren't many around smarter than Clarke, lovely footballer to watch. The very top echelon IMO.

Felexicon

Graham "Biggie" Reilly should be top of the list to be fair.

He has everything you'd want in a footballer. He's fast, physical, has a huge engine, can play anywhere from 5 to 15, has a great eye for a score.

Alot of the players mentioned in the list ( Brogan, Murphy etc) are far too one dimensional to be considered that valueable

Man on Fire

B.brogan would be the dearest for sure

pipelaser

I think to more accurately mirror a transfer market you have to factor in the age of these selections a bit more.
In which case the likes of Micheal Murphy and Graham Reilly would have to be near the top of the pile.
Bernard Brogans price would have peaked about two years ago, and he would have deserved it.

fullstop

corny wrote: »

Seriously? Bernard Brogan won footballer of the year in 2010 when isolated up front with EOG. Cork put two men on him and he still ended up with 1-7. He'd nine (all from play) in the previous game against Tyrone. Fair play to you for finding a weakness in Gooch's game too. He's been a one man show his entire career.

According to a quick Wiki search Michael Murphy scored a grand total of two points from play last year. Colm McFadden was easily their most influential player.

For me its not even close.

Well Murphy scored 1-1 from play in the All Ireland final last year.

WayneMolloy

keane2097 wrote: »

Yeah there aren't many around smarter than Clarke, lovely footballer to watch. The very top echelon IMO.

Id agree with that. Can you imagine if he was around in the early '00s with that great Armagh squad.:eek:

Speaking of which - it points out a fundemantal flaw in the articles 'young players are more valuable' policy. In the sunny summer of 2002 - most Dubs were pissed off with Cluxton and his indiscretions. Roll forward nine years and he is kicking a point that brought sammy home.

Cluxto makes us tick - we have two quality back up keepers (one gave up playing pro in England), but when they play, we are not the same side.

Flynn, Berno and Clucko, when fit, are Dublins first three players on the teamsheet imho. And we shall get a few more years outta Cluxton. We shall miss him when hes gone.

Syferus

WayneMolloy wrote: »

Id agree with that. Can you imagine if he was around in the early '00s with that great Armagh squad.:eek:

Speaking of which - it points out a fundemantal flaw in the articles 'young players are more valuable' policy. In the sunny summer of 2002 - most Dubs were pissed off with Cluxton and his indiscretions. Roll forward nine years and he is kicking a point that brought sammy home.

Cluxto makes us tick - we have two quality back up keepers (one gave up playing pro in England), but when they play, we are not the same side.

Flynn, Berno and Clucko, when fit, are Dublins first three players on the teamsheet imho. And we shall get a few more years outta Cluxton. We shall miss him when hes gone.

Don't worry boss, Cake is still smacking over frees (or at least trying to convince Frankie to let him take line balls) at 42 so Clux will probably be making incredibly forced speeches for a few years yet.

fasttalkerchat

My way of looking at it, richest "club" would be Dublin. So highest transfers would be paid by them. They would probably look to Ulster and Munster for experienced players and their own province for young players.
To take a top player away from Kerry would probably demand the highest transfer fee.

fasttalkerchat

WayneMolloy wrote: »

Id agree with that. Can you imagine if he was around in the early '00s with that great Armagh squad.:eek:

My big criticism of Armagh from those years was that they often ran out of ideas. When a few points behind with 15 mins to go they were trying the long ball into space and players moved out of position. Was it the semi against Dublin that Ronan Clarke was out injured?... not sure. But they lacked a creative player that day.

Fiery biscuits

I think in terms of being valuable, for me it has to be Colm Cooper even despite his age. He is the same age as Robin Van Persie and look at how valuable he was. Gooch is the best player of his generation IMO.

If its a valuable transfer based on current ability and potential, I would be inclined to say somebody like Jamie Clarke, Michael Murphy or Biggy Reilly.

Stevie888

Felexicon wrote: »

Graham "Biggie" Reilly should be top of the list to be fair.

He has everything you'd want in a footballer. He's fast, physical, has a huge engine, can play anywhere from 5 to 15, has a great eye for a score.

Alot of the players mentioned in the list ( Brogan, Murphy etc) are far too one dimensional to be considered that valueable

BB is strong, quick, can win ball, has good hands, can create chances for others and can kick off both feet.. Can you please explain how he is one dimensional?
.
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Oh wait, just saw your location :P

Syferus

I haven't a clue where all this Graham Reilly love is coming from. I genuinely had to Google his name to make sure people were talking about the Meath player and not some guy I zoned out on.

A good player with upside but I could think of a load of players I'd be take before I'd get to him (it's verging on blasphemy putting him in the Gooch/Clarke discussion) and even then there's plenty I'd have on at least the same level as him.

The Rooster

While he's far from infallible, Berrnard Brogan is a scoring machine, and that puts him right up there in terms of the most valuable player in GAA at the moment in my opinion. His scoring rate in the league has been super, and while a good chunk has come from frees, they still need to be kicked over:

Cork 0-6
Kerry 0-7
Mayo 1-10
Kildare 1-5
Mayo (SF) 0-5
Tyrone (F) 0-5

J Cheever Loophole

fasttalkerchat wrote: »

My big criticism of Armagh from those years was that they often ran out of ideas. When a few points behind with 15 mins to go they were trying the long ball into space and players moved out of position. Was it the semi against Dublin that Ronan Clarke was out injured?... not sure. But they lacked a creative player that day.

Actually the long ball for Armagh back then was a weapon of choice, and a very effective one at that.

In 2002 Ronan Clarke, as a 19 year old, was virtually unplayable, giving roastings to Paddy Christie, Chris Lawn and Seamus Moynihan - the three nominees for that years All Star full back - and that included under the high ball which enabled both him and Stevie to accmulate a lot of scores.

Ronan Clarke was a wonderful player whose career was (and indeed continues to be) blighted by serious injury.

If I was to critically analyse that team it would be that we had then an exceptional team, but not an exceptional squad, and those lack of alternatives were our undoing on a number of big days. The thought of another scoring option like Jamie Clarke with that team would be mouth watering - that much coveted second All Ireland would have been in the bag long ago.

Ah well.....:(

shiibata

Jack Lumber wrote: »

My list.

1. Stephen O'Neill
2. Michael Murphy
3. Colm Cooper
4. Bernard Brogan
5. Declan O'Sullivan
6. Seán Cavanagh
7. John Doyle
8. Colm McFadden
9. Karl Lacey
10. Aidan Walsh

Forwards will always cost the most in any transfer market hence why they dominate my list.

At 6, he has, Sean Cavanagh.....only post to mention him yet.....even as a Donegal man, as far as I am concerned, he is worth millions, fully fit....miles ahead of everyone else...

Syferus

shiibata wrote: »

At 6, he has, Sean Cavanagh.....only post to mention him yet.....even as a Donegal man, as far as I am concerned, he is worth millions, fully fit....miles ahead of everyone else...

Sean C is one of the best attacking footballers playing the sport and while he's never slow to come back in defence his game is still unbalanced in that teams know to attack his channel going forward because he's a pretty poor tackler and he isn't the greatest fielder of the ball. Get him the ball in stride, though, and he'll go by or through anyone.

I think AOS is the prototype of what you want from a midfielder but even saying all that I'd probably only take AOS and Aidan Walsh before Cavanagh.

qwerty93

Does anyone else struggle to understand this love-in for Cluxton that seems to be everywhere? He is a good goalkeeper but a goalkeeper is only as good as the team in front of him.Would he be as lauded if he was playing with the likes of Mayo or Donegal?I dont think he would. In my opinion Gary Connaughtan is the best goalkeeper in the country followed closely by Paul Durkan. Comments about Cluxtons kickouts being deadly also annoy me as I can remember many times when the pressure was on, his kickouts going over the sideline. One of the best goalkeepers in the country but not one of the best players IMO

J Cheever Loophole

qwerty93 wrote: »

He is a good goalkeeper but a goalkeeper is only as good as the team in front of him. Would he be as lauded if he was playing with the likes of Mayo or Donegal?I dont think he would.

Would Gooch be as lauded if he was with Carlow? Cavanagh if he was with Leitrim? I don't know - all we can do is go on the evidence of our eyes and for me Cluxton is a truely great player, not least becuse of his ability to influence huge games in the white heat of battle - that can be through great saves, distributing calmly when a calm head is needed, or slotting a point under the most intense of pressure.

I still reckon O'Leary is the best goalkeeper I have ever seen, but only he and Billy Morgan would run him close IMHO.

qwerty93

J Cheever Loophole wrote: »

Would Gooch be as lauded if he was with Carlow? Cavanagh if he was with Leitrim? I don't know - all we can do is go on the evidence of our eyes and for me Cluxton is a truely great player, not least becuse of his ability to influence huge games in the white heat of battle - that can be through great saves, distributing calmly when a calm head is needed, or slotting a point under the most intense of pressure.

I still reckon O'Leary is the best goalkeeper I have ever seen, but only he and Billy Morgan would run him close IMHO.

No he wouldn be as lauded with the likes of Carlow because chances are he would never play in an all ireland final but he would hav been recgognised as one of the country's top footballers in the same way Brendan Murphy and Emlyn Mulligan are. I agree Cluxon is a great player but I dont think he influenecs games as much as some people like to think he does, IMO Rory O Carroll is the bst full back in the country and Cluxton should count his blessings for that

StupidLikeAFox

What I would like to know is how much they would be worth?

Leaving out all the business around loyalties and they fact he wouldnt move etc, if Dublin were putting in a bid for Gooch, how much would he be worth?

€20k?
€200k?
€1million?

J Cheever Loophole

You appear then to have answered the question you yourself originally posed.

qwerty93 wrote: »

Does anyone else struggle to understand this love-in for Cluxton that seems to be everywhere? He is a good goalkeeper but a goalkeeper is only as good as the team in front of him.Would he be as lauded if he was playing with the likes of Mayo or Donegal?I dont think he would.

qwerty93 wrote: »

No he wouldn be as lauded with the likes of Carlow because chances are he would never play in an all ireland final but he would hav been recgognised as one of the country's top footballers in the same way Brendan Murphy and Emlyn Mulligan are.

Given that you have conceded he is a great player, you seem to be on the verge of overcoming the struggle to understand the love-in for Cluxton. I have to say also that you do yourself no favours by linking Cluxton's prowess to ROC at full back.

Felexicon

StupidLikeAFox wrote: »

What I would like to know is how much they would be worth?

Leaving out all the business around loyalties and they fact he wouldnt move etc, if Dublin were putting in a bid for Gooch, how much would he be worth?

€20k?
€200k?
€1million?

Impossible to say as there is no revenue figures to base it against.

Are we saying that county teams have turnovers similar to that of Premier League clubs?

If that's the case Cooper is worth around 25m (same as United paid for RVP) as he's probably the most potent scorer in the country on his day