Anyone done the NARGC Game meat handling course?

LIFFY FISHING

As the title says
Was it worth doing it ?
Any opinions welcome.

One shot on kill

Haven heard of it myself what does in cover just preparation for the table is it.

I'd be interested in it also. If its worth doing that is.

Cass

At over €350. Not a hope.

Might be mistaken on my prices, but that was the number quoted to me some months back. I'll try and dig it up.

underthetumb

Cass wrote: »

At over €350. Not a hope.

Might be mistaken on my prices, but that was the number quoted to me some months back. I'll try and dig it up.

Get a grip, 350, who governs that. Typical Irish money grabbers

Cass

The prices i can remember were €340 for the course, and €35 for the manual. I cannot find the information, but will. If i'm wrong, and someone knows the price or has done it then speak up.

cookimonster

http://www.nargc.ie/spotlight-container/safe-handling-of-wild-game-certification.aspx
Is this what you are talking about?, read on down the page and the price is there €300.00 for the course.
I have a few workshops / one day course done ref food safety and I'm afraid this is the sort of money your being asked for.

Cass

22 hours of the 30 hour course are credited by reading the manual, and doing an assessment. The other 8 hours for the day itself.

Irrespective of whether this is the norm of not, I'm still not paying over €300 for a one day course. If others feel it's of use then knock yourself out.

One shot on kill

Cass wrote: »

At over €350. Not a hope.

Oh be te jasus. I think learning from your mistakes at home on the kitchen counter would be the only way to go with this one.

strangles

what advantage is this course anyway ?

LIFFY FISHING

strangles wrote: »

what advantage is this course anyway ?

City and guilds certification, for selling and handling game meat.

Wasnt looking to know if someone knows how to quater a rabbit on the kitchen table lads, the kid can do that.

cookimonster

This is just another strangle hold imposed by our 'Nanny State' organisations such as the FSAI.
I have learnt, practiced and taught many aspects of food safety and what frustrates me worst of all is the inconsistency of our regulations compared to that of other member states in the EU.
It is 'over regulating' that has damaged cottage industries and the like and although controls are needed to be put into place, real world practices should be the norm not the exception........................................ now climbing down off soap box

genuineirl

The course is more about disease recognition in alive or dead animal.
One aspect of this is more knowledge for yourself - less risk of food poisoning by consuming game meat from not healthy animal.
Other aspect of this is less hassle for game dealer - when hunter sell game he has to signed declaration stating the animal was healthy. Game dealer do less microbiological tests on meat (they save money at this stage).
They say soon nobody will be able sell any meat to game dealer without this course.
They say also (the nicest part of this) that hunter with this course will be able sell game privately straight to the local butcher (like it is in some EU countries) and this gonna happen probably from Sept 2014.

One shot on kill

LIFFY FISHING wrote: »

City and guilds certification, for selling and handling game meat.

Wasnt looking to know if someone knows how to quater a rabbit on the kitchen table lads, the kid can do that.

City and guilds are they not a uk orientated governing body.

Can you even sell game meat in Ireland.

Deer can be sold to a dealer but as far as I know there responsible for the decision of saying its good enough or not. ( that's all as far as I know I'm not 100%)

genuineirl

City & Guilds its an international training provider

After course you get FSAI cert

Game dealers buy some of small and big game, just ask them

Cass

My only concern with any game handling course is it's authenticity, and substance. By that i mean when competency courses were made "mandatory" every Tom, Dick, & Harry with an "I'm an expert" complex climbed out of the woodwork with courses being available. Everyone sought to cash in on something that is not a legal requirement. Worse again it is not even officially recognised by any state agency/body.

Then they introduce the "trained hunter" angle, and again courses start popping up. From €100 up to €400. Some claiming to be better than others because they last longer. Some because the people running it have more years shooting (and i choose that term over experience for a reason) than others.

I said on another thread recently that i would sooner take a course, ran by some bureaucrat, in whatever state agency deals with, and have a nationally/internationally recongised certificate that has a fixed price, and the same level of training (no matter where i take the course around the country), and ran by people with internationally recongised qualifications than something from whatever organisation claims to be the foremost expert, at whatever price they want to charge, and run by whomever they deem to be an expert.



Now time for me to get off MY soap box.

Grizzly 45

One aspect of this is more knowledge for yourself - less risk of food poisoning by consuming game meat from not healthy animal.

Well unless you make a habit of eating semi cooked or raw internal organs.Or have a micro biological lab at home to recognise the 1st stages of TB,you should be all right.
Venison even from a TB infected animal once cooked throughly is perfectly edible.

Other aspect of this is less hassle for game dealer - when hunter sell game he has to signed declaration stating the animal was healthy. Game dealer do less microbiological tests on meat (they save money at this stage).

As if they do that in the first place....:rolleyes: The carcasses are still inspected by a Dept of Ag vet no matter what it enters the food chain.This was a cheap attempt to make dept officals redundant who actually have a knowledge base that has taken years of study and professionalism to aquire
And not in a "pay 350 euros now graduate when you can read the book in the exam "course .:rolleyes:

They say soon nobody will be able sell any meat to game dealer without this course.

Who is this "they" you speak of??

They say also (the nicest part of this) that hunter with this course will be able sell game privately straight to the local butcher (like it is in some EU countries) and this gonna happen probably from Sept 2014.

THAT I WILL take with a pound of salt!!!:rolleyes::rolleyes:
Why would anyone want to upset a nice cozy cartel number here by opening the trade to any man and his dog when the GDs can virtually set their carcass prices low being payed out to the game harvesters.While they make a huge profit selling the choice bits of the carcass to the European market???

Were it to happen that would blow the bottom out of the Game dealers monopoly on selling and price fixing,and it will certianly blast the commercial game hunter out of busisness as now he will be finding out how much his carcass really is worth on the open market here.Not to mind if he wants to continue there is now a traceable forest to fork situation.
Thing is...This is sensible,so that means it will NEVER happen here.:rolleyes:

jww

I was told today that game dealers wont take deer next season with out it , has anyone heard that????

Cass

Sounds more of the same "i heard from a lad that knows lad, that knows someone important".

Game dealers will always take deer. No chance they will refuse it. There is far too much money to be made. I'm not up to speed on prices so bear with me.

AFAIK they pay between €1.20 up to €2.20 per Kg (open to correction there) for deer (Sika, Fallow, Red). They process it, and sell it on for approx. €9 - €15 per kg (probably o the low end). That's a 600% mark up, and when costs are taken away, a minimum of 3-400% profit.

Also i read somewhere that as the trained hunter courses have not been fully initiated, so once they give their license number, the heart/lungs, etc. then any shooter can sell the deer they shoot.

People poaching deer are getting rid of them somewhere, and i highly doubt they all have licenses, and want their details recorded. I say "doubt they all have licenses" because i still believe some think it is people without deer licenses that make up the majority/all of poachers. In my experience from papers, reports, cases, etc. it is licensed deer stalkers that commit these offences as often as non licensed people.

genuineirl

Cass maybe you have right, maybe not.
I don't want to say this course must be done or can be done or don't do it, but...
The food safety authorities on all world try protect people against food poisoning in any kind of way. Game meat consumption is still growing as game meat is more healthy, lean and animals wasn't fed by modified food. Rabbit meat is perfect for babies because is nonallergic.
EC 853/2004 regulation is about food safety and any (any kind of a food - everything humans eat) food producer has to fallow it to protect people against potential food poisoning.
Farmers deliver animals to slaughter house and from that moment EC 853/2004 is respected until your shopping basket.
Why not to do it that way with game meat? Wild animals are susceptible for diseases the same as domestic animals. That's why this course. Food safety authorities want control game meat the same way.
We take some scenario:
Some of fast foods respect HACCP - in some point that's mean person at the till can't touch any food when touching money (huge carrier of germs). She has to put gloves when making your favorite breakfast roll and take them off when taking money or wash hands between this two things.
In my town only two from about ten fast foods do that way. I don't buy from remaining eight.
Would anyone of you like to eat food handled by person with dirty hands? I don't think so.

Coming back to the subject of discussion, would you eat very expensive game meat from sick animal or handled at some stage by sloppy person?

Grizzly 45

9 to 15 euros per kg??Try 30 euros plus for the prime cuts like the strip and sirlion.:P.All the rest of the meat to them is just so much sugar that has to be shifted somhow.:(

Cass

genuineirl wrote: »

Cass maybe you have right, maybe not.
I don't want to say this course must be done or can be done or don't do it, but...

I'm not saying a course should not be done, only that it be ran for the benefit of the people attending, and not for the quarterly profit margin. This is not an attack on the NARGC. The only reference to them here is because it is central to the topic being discussed, and as the most expensive it will always come to the front when such discussions come up.

Coming back to the subject of discussion, would you eat very expensive game meat from sick animal or handled at some stage by sloppy person?

My game meat is free. So hell yeah i eat it. Wouldn't shoot it otherwise. As for buying game meat. Not a chance. Why pay for what i can do myself.

Cass

Grizzly 45 wrote: »

9 to 15 euros per kg??Try 30 euros plus for the prime cuts like the strip and sirlion.:P.All the rest of the meat to them is just so much sugar that has to be shifted somhow.:(

I'm not familiar with prices as said so took an educated guess. If it's more then it only serves to strengthen my point above.

genuineirl

Grizzly
"they" I was mean - course provider
and other thing - I believe that selling game privately will happen. In UK hunter have right to sell few (can't remember how many) deer every season privately.

Cass you right here, You shot yourself and eat yourself, but FSAI thing global and they don't care about one person or one family been poisoned.
Right that NARGC robbing money for 8 hrs course
You are lucky still have deer on your permission, on mine they are gone

Anyway as many people that many opinions

LIFFY FISHING

". This is not an attack on the NARGC. The only reference to them here is because it is central to the topic being discussed, and as the most expensive"

Who else runs a qualified or credible course?

genuineirl

Just didn't mention
Some tricky questions on course and if u fail u can go again for half price

noeleire

LIFFY FISHING wrote: »

". This is not an attack on the NARGC. The only reference to them here is because it is central to the topic being discussed, and as the most expensive"

Who else runs a qualified or credible course?

how come this course is so expensive 300 euro for 8 hours do they show the butchering of the deer ..

Cass

LIFFY FISHING wrote: »

Who else runs a qualified or credible course?

No idea myself.


Here is a question. Why does anyone want one? If it's for information only then i'm sure the various deer associations run courses. If it's to sell game they shoot then the price should not be a factor, only the fact that you need it to sell what you shoot.

Grizzly 45

Cass wrote: »

My game meat is free. So hell yeah i eat it. Wouldn't shoot it otherwise. As for buying game meat. Not a chance. Why pay for what i can do myself.

As an aside, most hunters I know will never order game in a resturant,as they dont know or would hate to speculate how good or bad this particular animal might have been shot.:p

and other thing - I believe that selling game privately will happen. In UK hunter have right to sell few (can't remember how many) deer every season privately.

@Genuineirl.. I take it you are not from these parts originally??
Yes this is quite true for the most of the EU.However they also have a more stringent hunters test and part of it does cover zoology and vetinary diseases,and not much of a poaching problem as we have here either.
However,this is Ireland! Where sensible laws are never implimented and problems are swept under rugs and large elephants in small "good rooms" are never commented on.:rolleyes:
We really are ala carte Europeans...We take on laws by the barrow load somtimes never even knowing what they are about or the problems of implimenting them in reality,or whether they have any revelance to Ireland in the first case.
So of course all European hunters could do this,but not us Irish because our already statute law precludes this happening,nor will there be any rush to go change it either.So we end up with a paradoxical situation of EU law saying
"You must" and Irish law saying "You cant...So there now!"
And a 3rd party saying "iIl make a few bob on this....":rolleyes:
IOW nothing changes you have a cert that while informative,does nothing further except take 350 euros off you ,and the Euroracy is happy that the law is being obeyed in Ireland.:rolleyes:

Who else runs a qualified or credible course?

WADI I suppose, in with their HCAP scam.:)

garv123

Grizzly 45 wrote: »

9 to 15 euros per kg??Try 30 euros plus for the prime cuts like the strip and sirlion.:P.All the rest of the meat to them is just so much sugar that has to be shifted somhow.:(

Haunch steak 12.50 (500g) 2pack.

Bloneless loin 26.50 per kg

saddle 19.50 per kg

haunch boned and netted 16.50 per kg

diced 11 per kg


sausage 5.50 per 500g


That doesn't seem too badly priced to me compared to lamb/beef

genuineirl

Cass wrote: »

No idea myself.


Here is a question. Why does anyone want one? If it's for information only then i'm sure the various deer associations run courses. If it's to sell game they shoot then the price should not be a factor, only the fact that you need it to sell what you shoot.

Yes it is ONLY needed when u sell game u had shot

genuineirl

Grizzly 45 wrote: »

As an aside, most hunters I know will never order game in a resturant,as they dont know or would hate to speculate how good or bad this particular animal might have been shot.:p



@Genuineirl.. I take it you are not from these parts originally??
Yes this is quite true for the most of the EU.However they also have a more stringent hunters test and part of it does cover zoology and vetinary diseases,and not much of a poaching problem as we have here either.

You have right, I am here only 8 years and I found Ireland just to be judging by own rules than rest of eu. All the time I am trying to tell you lads that Ireland want to be like other eu countries thats this course is. And u can lern from it about zoology and vetinary diseases, how to recognized them etc..
Of course its relates in most to irish game.

One shot on kill

I'm gonna jump back in here even doe the conversation is gone a little bit past me.

But speaking as an amature in stalking the coarse would be great for me to learn. But been the same as other eu countries isn't really gonna happen because in this country. It's not about educating the hunter, been carefull wit food chain etc.

It's about the government realising they can hop of someone's job sport hobbie etc to make money, and in my opinion like everything else. Yes all those other things are important ( food safety etc).

It about someone taking advantage of someone else to make money right from the top of the tree to the bottom.

Prime example is the security industry everybody is a trainer now.

That's part of the reason I wouldn't do it because someone higher up is taking advantage of us again. Every if they bring it in its purely for money not to make the sport better.

I'd preferred for the sport to be better myself.

jww

hi lads i heard it from a gun dealer closely involved with the course , dont know after that.

Sika98k

jww wrote: »

hi lads i heard it from a gun dealer closely involved with the course , dont know after that.

Umm,well said gundealer would hardly tell you something negative about it as he has a strong financial interest in this course.

Lets surmise for a moment. Joe Bloggs goes off and does his reading of his 35 Euro manual. Sits in class for a day and passes his exam with flying colours,be it on the 1st or 2nd attempt.

Now jauntily waving his certificate accrediting him as a qualified person he merrily wends his way home and shortly after goes off on a sucessful stalk.

The fridge/cooler/freezer being somewhat overstocked he decides to take his beast off to the local gamedealer and proudly signs off that as a qualified person the beast showed no signs of abnormality before the shot and subsequent inspection of the carcase showed no signs of disease.

Sometime later the Dept of Agriculture vet who has spent several years in college and many thousands of Euros in college fees to get to where he is rolls up at the gamedealers to inspect the carcasses as every carcass entering the human food chain in this country is inspected.

@r.Albeit[/EMAIL] a qualified one:D

No,we are not going to be allowed to sell deer direct to the public. You can give it away,fair enough. We all do.

Fair enough there is a need for people to learn about carcass handling in the field,proper gralloching,cross contamination[who carries 2 knives out stalking?]etc etc. But you can learn a lot about this at the carcass handling seminars run by the Wild Deer Association or the Irish Deer Society.

One shot on kill

i was thinking of joinkng the wda for the seminars and that. would ignbe recomended to join.

Fallow01

I am biased as an existing WDAI member, but free seminars, venison BBQ's and many other events for €20 it's a no brainer even if you just attend one! They are really the only deer org in Ireland

Fallow01

The course is not required to sell game to a dealer, it only means you don't have to give the pluck & head with the carcass, other than that it doesn't allow you to do anything else

I read somewhere else the vet & firearm dealer (the same guy who is always in the NARGC tent at the GF's ) who speak at it, get 700 of our money for the day!!!

Grizzly 45

Fallow01 wrote: »

The course is not required to sell game to a dealer, it only means you don't have to give the pluck & head with the carcass, other than that it doesn't allow you to do anything else

I read somewhere else the vet & firearm dealer (the same guy who is always in the NARGC tent at the GF's ) who speak at it, get 700 of our money for the day!!!

Enuff said about either courses.:rolleyes:

One shot on kill

Fallow01 wrote: »

I am biased as an existing WDAI member, but free seminars, venison BBQ's and many other events for €20 it's a no brainer even if you just attend one! They are really the only deer org in Ireland

infairness 20 euro is feck all for it. i think ill sign up alright how often are the seminars held and is there any coming up.

Fallow01

Normally there on during the season, when guys have carcasses to bring along keep an eye on their website or FB page the dates are posted there. BTW I see they have another blood tracking event in June, was at the last one, great day out!