Irish Rail - Fine for Unpaid Fare

Peppa Pig

AlekSmart wrote: »

I'm just not seeing enough "eejit" on the Irish Rail side of things here

PeppaPig wrote:

Your man sounded like a right eejit or was having a very very bad day.

If you are going to quote me please use the full quote and ensure you don't misrepresent what I said. Thank you

The IR guy said they would use CCTV to check if the OP had used it previously. Are you seriously telling me that IR will spend time reviewing every rail journey since the pass was issued? Or that, if they have a record of the days it was used they can pick out the OP and zoom in on his ticket?

Right now,if I were Butch90,and Butch90's Da,I'd be making tracks to my Local DSP Office and seeking out the individual SW Officer dealing with the Household Benefits Package,

The household benefits has nothing to do with the Free travel pass. They are separate schemes.

AlekSmart

Peppa Pig wrote: »

If you are going to quote me please use the full quote and ensure you don't misrepresent what I said. Thank you

The IR guy said they would use CCTV to check if the OP had used it previously. Are you seriously telling me that IR will spend time reviewing every rail journey since the pass was issued? Or that, if they have a record of the days it was used they can pick out the OP and zoom in on his ticket?

What has this got to do with anything?

Oh and the household benefits has nothing to do with the Free travel pass.they are separate schemes.

Firstly,my apologies Peppa Pig,as I was under the impression I was quoting the OP,Butch90,however it seem's that my browser had a blonde moment which left sections of posts unwrapped.

I can assure you I have neither the need nor intent to misrepresent anyone,however,just for pig-iron,and to prevent any further ambiguity I'll use your full quote as in Post#4.

Quote:
Originally Posted by butch90.
Both parents are on disability allowance with social welfare travel passes.

Is her pass not a companion travel pass?
If she is then you were entitled to travel on that pass as her companion.

Quote:
they would be checking up cctv images to see had i used the pass on different occasions.

What a load of nonsense. Are they going to check every journey ever made on bus, rail Luas and be able to zoom in to see a name on a travel pass

Your man sounded like a right eejit or was having a very very bad day

The issue of the Free Pass type has already been clarified by the OP and subsequently by Foggy_Lad,who correctly points out that not all OAP passes are Spouse/Partner and not all Disability Passes are Companion,both classifications are dependant upon the Status of the Holder as recorded by the DSP.

Again,apologies for the faux-pas.

However my issue over the "eejit" remains,and justifiably I believe.

From what Butch90 posts the IE Staff he dealt with were nothing but factual,all along the line.

None of Butch90's posts appear to have any major issue with the IE Staff's performance,except that they failed to tell him what he wanted to hear,but instead told him what he needed to know.

It was explained that each IE Free Travel Journey is cross referenced with the relevant Free Pass number,thereby substantially reducing whatever amount of CCTV footage requiring inspection,it is not commonplcace for sure,but it is entirely possible should the situation warrant it.

They gave him factual information at an early stage,which he can then,if he so desires,use to pre-empt or at least reduce the severity of any potential negative outcome.

Can you outline what exactly makes this Staff Member an "Eejit" in this regard,would you prefer he fed Butch90 a load of soft-focus blather just to get him off the phone ?

Why on earth would you see this sort of exchange as always having to involve an IE Staffer "having a very bad day" ?....given the current situation with the Free Travel Scheme I would suggest it's just another,Ho-Hum Boring,Ordinary ol day.

If there's allegations of misrepresentation going to be thrown about,I'd be inclined to regard any employee being labeled an "Eejit" or "On a very bad day" for being calmly factual and upfront as being an equally good example of them ?

On the issue of what the Household Benefits Package "has to do with anything"...this was referring to the fact that Butch90's mother had to attend this funeral at short notice,with lack of funding being the issue quoted by Butch90 himself.

I should have referred to the DSP Supplementary Welfare Allowance Scheme rather than the Household Benefits Package,as the former does have a "Special Needs Provision"

http://www.welfare.ie/en/Pages/Supplementary-Welfare-Allowance.aspx

Exceptional Needs Payments

If you are getting a social welfare or Health Service Executive payment, you may qualify for a once off payment to meet an exceptional need. There is no automatic entitlement to this payment Each application is determined by the Health Service Executive based on the particular circumstances of the case. An exceptional needs payment covers essential, once-off exceptional spending that you could not reasonably be expected to meet out of your weekly income

However,the fact that Butch90's parents do not appear to be assessed as being "Medically unfit to travel alone" might be seen as lessening their chances of the DSP funding his accompanying his Mother on this occasion.

I hope this clarifies things for you ?

foggy_lad

AlekSmart wrote: »

It was explained that each IE Free Travel Journey is cross referenced with the relevant Free Pass number,thereby substantially reducing whatever amount of CCTV footage requiring inspection,it is not commonplcace for sure,but it is entirely possible should the situation warrant it.

Just a slight correction, the ability is there to print each pass holders PPS number onto each ticket but this is rarely if ever done. The norm is that the last two or three numbers are put on the ticket and sometimes the number does not even correspond with any number on the pass.

Peppa Pig

AlekSmart wrote: »

It was explained that each IE Free Travel Journey is cross referenced with the relevant Free Pass number,

I have a free pass through disability. I've rarely used it. On the few occasions I have used it have been from Leixlip to Pearse. There is nobody at Leixlip so the pass is not shown. On exiting at Pearse , I've shown the pass to the staff at the gate and they have waved me on.
On the return journeys I've gone to the ticket office at Pearse and got a physical ticket. On no occasion has my pass been checked or any number taken.

Maybe my experience is not the norm, I would hope it is not. Although I can barely walk more than 50 yards I do not have any obvious disability, nor do I look like an OAP:D.

So when I hear of an IR employee talking about looking at CCTV footage, based on my actual experiences using a pass, it sounds nonsense to me. If I'm wrong, then great.

I've used it on the Luas and DB a couple of times as well. It's never been checked. They're not all as conscientious as you:)

One thing I will most certainly agree with is the non-urban pass. I got mine 3 years ago and could not comprehend why all I had to do to validate it was to put my signature on it. I could have given the unsigned pass to anyone and the abuse would be hard to detect.

Peppa Pig

foggy_lad wrote: »

Just a slight correction, the ability is there to print each pass holders PPS number onto each ticket but this is rarely if ever done. The norm is that the last two or three numbers are put on the ticket and sometimes the number does not even correspond with any number on the pass.

My pass has 95 printed before my full PPS number

foggy_lad

Peppa Pig wrote: »

One thing I will most certainly agree with is the non-urban pass. I got mine 3 years ago and could not comprehend why all I had to do to validate it was to put my signature on it. I could have given the unsigned pass to anyone and the abuse would be hard to detect.

If you found yourself using the pass more often you may at some point be questioned about the photopass and asked why you don't have it, or told to get it asap or risk having your pass confiscated. Most people would view Leixlip as being part of the urban area of Dublin city.

foggy_lad

Peppa Pig wrote: »

My pass has 95 printed before my full PPS number

That is for the DSP for office use but should be quoted if asked for your pass number.

AlekSmart

Peppa Pig wrote: »

I have a free pass through disability. I've rarely used it. On the few occasions I have used it have been from Leixlip to Pearse. There is nobody at Leixlip so the pass is not shown. On exiting at Pearse , I've shown the pass to the staff at the gate and they have waved me on.

On the return journeys I've gone to the ticket office at Pearse and got a physical ticket. On no occasion has my pass been checked or any number taken.

Maybe my experience is not the norm, I would hope it is not. Although I can barely walk more than 50 yards I do not have any obvious disability, nor do I look like an OAP:D.

So when I hear of an IR employee talking about looking at CCTV footage, based on my actual experiences using a pass, it sounds nonsense to me. If I'm wrong, then great.

I've used it on the Luas and DB a couple of times as well. It's never been checked. They're not all as conscientious as you:)

One thing I will most certainly agree with is the non-urban pass. I got mine 3 years ago and could not comprehend why all I had to do to validate it was to put my signature on it. I could have given the unsigned pass to anyone and the abuse would be hard to detect.

All well and good Peppa,but the facility is there,could and should be used,and may well be used in Butch90's case,particularly if the "Eejit" having the very bad day was a concientious "Eejit" too....(a particularly fearsome combination :eek: )

I always insist on seeing a DSP Pass,if only to reinforce the message that displaying it is a requirement,which was writ large on the documentation that accompanied it.

It is also the only,sadly crude,manner of ensuring that One Pass serves One Person,rather than the Photo ID being used by the actual holder and the hard-copy,minus ID,by a relative nodded through by yet another type of "eejit"...;)

I think it's well accepted by now,that the DSP's Free Travel Scheme in it's current state of operation is just about finished.

The required "noises-off" are already being made,OECD reports recommending Means-Testing" for a Range of Benefits,Various Ministers puffing and blowing about anti-fraud measures and the likes.....

All window-dressing in reality,as the Government struggles to come to terms with what 40 years of abject neglect of an innovative and successful Social Support measure has resulted in.....a total shambles.

The current situation of a funding freeze at 2010 levels allied to a substantial increase in the number of Free Travel Passes being issued merely makes the end-game ever more imminent.

At this stage the only thing keeping the FTS afloat is the State's control of the CIE Group companies,whereby it can "use it's influence" to keep the level of boardroom unease at the financial black-hole quiet....for now.

The recent Dáil Committee grilling of the DSP's Secretary General was most illustrative of the "Carlsberg Cobwebbed Office" nature of her Department.....

http://www.irishtimes.com/news/free-travel-payment-based-on-1973-survey-committee-hears-1.1326052

The scale of Ms Niamh O'Donoghue's undoubtedly well founded financial acumen is revealed in this little gem.....

The benefits available for people on the free travel and the number of beneficiaries had increased at no cost, she said. CIÉ also believed they were being underpaid, she added.

Can anybody put some perspective on this viewpoint,as it would appear to represent an Irish Civil Service version of the Miracle of Loaves & Fishes..?

The main issue for me,as somebody faced with the reality of the FTS daily,is whether it can be wound-down and rescued as a functional,albeit narrower focused scheme,OR whether it will simply collapse spectacularly,with the IMF or some such entity being blamed..?

Peppa Pig

foggy_lad wrote: »

Most people would view Leixlip as being part of the urban area of Dublin city.

You're a brave man if you tell somebody form Leixlip they are a Dub:D
I live in Kildare, which is why I have no photo id. It's ridiculous.

foggy_lad

Peppa Pig wrote: »

You're a brave man if you tell somebody form Leixlip they are a Dub:D
I live in Kildare, which is why I have no photo id. It's ridiculous.

Us lilywhites are always brave.

As said before though the photo pass is so easily forged it makes little sense. If a change was made making it compulsory to carry a passport or garda age card it would cut fraudout almost fully in a day.

Victor

Peppa Pig wrote: »

The household benefits has nothing to do with the Free travel pass. They are separate schemes.

The two are being lumped together in the drive for savings by the DSP.

Hilly Bill

foggy_lad wrote: »

As the op was (fraudulently) using the travel pass he would not have had the option of getting aa ticket from the machine as they only issue tickets to paying passengers. Free pass holders must obtain a ticket from the booking office if it is open. I simply highlighted this to you aftet your comment about the op using the TVMs. Nothing more to it and doesn't require any further off topic response.

Im fully aware what a pass holder must do. They key word that you used was OPTION.

ShadowFox

Firstly OP take a deep breath and relax. You paid the fixed fair of €130 what the "officer" from IE was informing you of regarding court was if you have used the pass in the past or future they will take you to court
To clear up another point there is no need for them to check every piece of cctv as every time a travel pass is used the number of the pass is printed on the ticket so all they have to do is type in the travel pass number see when it was used and check that cctv
OP was the travel pass taken off of you by the Irish Rail staff ?

foggy_lad

ShadowFox wrote: »

To clear up another point there is no need for them to check every piece of cctv as every time a travel pass is used the number of the pass is printed on the ticket so all they have to do is type in the travel pass number see when it was used and check that cctv

This rarely happens, mostly only the last 3-4 numbers are put on the ticket.

Gatling

Glad to see the clamp down in effect ,
Was on a bus today when it was broadcast across the drivers radio that several inspector's were going to board the bus to check tickets ,I've a DA pass photo included ,the usual suspects from older (pocket tappers ) to student's that boarded with passes suddenly jump up and payed full fares or jumped off at the next stop was almost comical

ShadowFox

foggy_lad wrote: »

This rarely happens, mostly only the last 3-4 numbers are put on the ticket.

The last 3-4 numbers is all that shows up on the ticket like on a credit card recite

foggy_lad

ShadowFox wrote: »

The last 3-4 numbers is all that shows up on the ticket like on a credit card recite

There is room to put the full number on the ticket but only the last few are ever used! It is not like a credit card number where most is obscured for security.

Hilly Bill

All that matters is that the numbers on the ticket matches the numbers on your pass, be it the last 4 or 5 numbers or the whole lot of them.

Cool_CM

Incidentally they seem to be stepping up their ticket checks. There were guys waiting at the exit to the platform at Portmarnock at around 5:30 on Tuesday and just got checked on the train from Maynooth to Connolly (Commuter) too.

Hilly Bill

It will be stepped even further soon especially on the commuters.

L1011

My partner commented on being checked twice this week alone - at the station and on the train - versus once since October.