Irish Rail - Fine for Unpaid Fare

butch90

I was fined last month for using my dads travel pass to attend a funeral with my mother. Both parents are on disability allowance with social welfare travel passes. Im currently in college with no income at all.

I made the big mistake of using my dads pass as i did not have any money to make the trip. The funeral was for a family friend so i did not want my mother travelling alone. She is a holder of a travel pass which includes spouse.

I got stopped on the return journey and was issued the fixed penalty notice. i claimed full responsibility and took the punishment. I phoned the head office to pay the fine today. The man over the phone took the payment and then threatened me straight away with court action and he would be investigating the case.

does this now mean il be in court with a possible criminal conviction for such a small crime. i took the punishment but i think its way over the top to go and bring me to court now on such a small matter. il have to get free legal aid as i have no income which will be a burden to the taxpayer and i certainly under no circumstances will be able afford a big fine up to €1000 . im nearly a qualified engineer and this criminal conviction will ruin my chances of a job in Ireland.

Fair enough il pay for my actions with a €130 fine, but think its over the top to bring me to court.

Has anybody any experience on this matter with Irish rail

foggy_lad

butch90 wrote: »

I was fined last month for using my dads travel pass to attend a funeral with my mother. Both parents are on disability allowance with social welfare travel passes. Im currently in college with no income at all.

I made the big mistake of using my dads pass as i did not have any money to make the trip. The funeral was for a family friend so i did not want my mother travelling alone. She is a holder of a travel pass which includes spouse.

I got stopped on the return journey and was issued the fixed penalty notice. i claimed full responsibility and took the punishment. I phoned the head office to pay the fine today. The man over the phone took the payment and then threatened me straight away with court action and he would be investigating the case.

does this now mean il be in court with a possible criminal conviction for such a small crime. i took the punishment but i think its way over the top to go and bring me to court now on such a small matter. il have to get free legal aid as i have no income which will be a burden to the taxpayer and i certainly under no circumstances will be able afford a big fine up to €1000 . im nearly a qualified engineer and this criminal conviction will ruin my chances of a job in Ireland.

Fair enough il pay for my actions with a €130 fine, but think its over the top to bring me to court.

Has anybody any experience on this matter with Irish rail

Not only can you be charged with theft and fraud you can also be responsible for your father losing his free travel pass for letting you use it. Too many people are using travel passes which don't belong to them and there is thankfully a clampdown by transport operators which appears to be catching out some.

What exactly were you told by the person you spoke to? Were you told they were definitely taking a case against you? or was it just a threat of what is to come if you continue to steal from the DSP & Free travel scheme?

butch90

It wouldn't be deemed as theft as my father gave the pass to me to accompany my mother. However i could be charged with fraud im fully aware of that outcome. Thats the most destructive outcome to my career. I would be ruined.

I was given a law lecture by the officer who told me that they would be checking up cctv images to see had i used the pass on different occasions. I only used the pass that day and told him this. He replied that they would be investigating the matter further which could result in more fines and a court appearance.

Peppa Pig

butch90 wrote: »

Both parents are on disability allowance with social welfare travel passes.

Is her pass not a companion travel pass?
If she is then you were entitled to travel on that pass as her companion.

they would be checking up cctv images to see had i used the pass on different occasions.

What a load of nonsense. Are they going to check every journey ever made on bus, rail Luas and be able to zoom in to see a name on a travel pass :rolleyes:
Your man sounded like a right eejit or was having a very very bad day

butch90

Peppa Pig wrote: »

Is her pass not a companion travel pass?
If she is then you were entitled to travel on that pass as her companion.

Im nearly sure it states a spouse may accompany her

Peppa Pig

butch90 wrote: »

Im nearly sure it states a spouse may accompany her

It's worth checking. Old age passes are spouse but disability ones are companion.

Corkbah

butch90 wrote: »

It wouldn't be deemed as theft as my father gave the pass to me to accompany my mother. However i could be charged with fraud im fully aware of that outcome. Thats the most destructive outcome to my career. I would be ruined.

I was given a law lecture by the officer who told me that they would be checking up cctv images to see had i used the pass on different occasions. I only used the pass that day and told him this. He replied that they would be investigating the matter further which could result in more fines and a court appearance.

it may not be theft ...but the pass can be revoked due to illegal usage/abusive usage of the pass.

it is designated to one person ...and one person ONLY.

its quite possible that your mothers pass may have covered you at the time, but if not, its also possible that the person on the other end of the phone was just throwing out threats to frighten you....however, they can and sometimes do take people to court over petty grudges !

hopefully you'll think twice before doing the same again.

butch90

What a load of nonsense. Are they going to check every journey ever made on bus, rail Luas and be able to zoom in to see a name on a travel pass :rolleyes:
Your man sounded like a right eejit or was having a very very bad day

They know my departure and destination on that date. The officer reckons that even do i got the fine for the journey i could be fined for other journeys on the day. He also said they input the number issued on the travel pass into their system when issuing tickets.

It could be scare tactics and i hope so. I feel i have been punished fairly with the €130 fine.

butch90

Corkbah wrote: »

it may not be theft ...but the pass can be revoked due to illegal usage/abusive usage of the pass.

it is designated to one person ...and one person ONLY.

its quite possible that your mothers pass may have covered you at the time, but if not, its also possible that the person on the other end of the phone was just throwing out threats to frighten you....however, they can and sometimes do take people to court over petty grudges !

hopefully you'll think twice before doing the same again.

I have learned a big lesson that's for sure. its a massive fright and hopefully the matter will be closed with the fixed penalty notice. The pass will more than likely be revoked from what i was told by the officer.

refusetolose

pay the fare

or pay the price

foggy_lad

butch90 wrote: »

Im nearly sure it states a spouse may accompany her

All passes issued allow a spouse/partner to accompany the holder but her spouse/partner must be named on her pass as her spouse/partner.

Peppa Pig wrote: »

It's worth checking. Old age passes are spouse but disability ones are companion.

Not all disability passes are companion passes and many old age passes are companion passes, it is subject to application and a medical examination which should ascertain whether a pass holder needs a companion with them when travelling, such as those with more severe epilepsy and a list of other conditions which may leave a person incapacitated during their journey.

Losty Dublin

OP, did you pay the fixed penalty notice? Yes or no?

butch90

Losty Dublin wrote: »

OP, did you pay the fixed penalty notice? Yes or no?

Yes i paid the full amount today. The officer threatened me with more action after processing the payment then

foggy_lad

Losty Dublin wrote: »

OP, did you pay the fixed penalty notice? Yes or no?

butch90 wrote: »

I got stopped on the return journey and was issued the fixed penalty notice. i claimed full responsibility and took the punishment. I phoned the head office to pay the fine today. The man over the phone took the payment and then threatened me straight away with court action and he would be investigating the case.

it would appear the fine was paid

Losty Dublin

butch90 wrote: »

Yes i paid the full amount today. The officer threatened me with more action after processing the payment then

If you did then that is the end of the matter. The fixed penalty you paid is akin to a speeding ticket; you are alleged to have committed an offence. By paying up you admit guilt and in return Irish Rail close off the matter legally.

With that in mind, they are entitled to see if you have done this before and prosecute you for same if required. In all honesty he is just putting manners on you for risking your Dad's pass; hopefully you guys won't risk doing this again.

Jamie2k9

Losty Dublin wrote: »

If you did then that is the end of the matter. The fixed penalty you paid is akin to a speeding ticket; you are alleged to have committed an offence. By paying up you admit guilt and in return Irish Rail close off the matter legally.

With that in mind, they are entitled to see if you have done this before and prosecute you for same if required. In all honesty he is just putting manners on you for risking your Dad's pass; hopefully you guys won't risk doing this again.

I have see Irish Rail takes passes and contact socail welfare about fraud and they will contact them about it for sure, major clampdown on this, you took a chance and got caught so you will have takes what comes your way.

Im nearly sure it states a spouse may accompany her

it does don't see why you needed the other pass and the Irish Rail staff menber who sold you the ticket at the station (if he did?) should have questions to answer for failing to do his job.

butch90

Yes he made it quite clear that social welfare will be contacted on this matter. the pass will be revoked for a year i think from what he said

Jamie2k9

butch90 wrote: »

Yes he made it quite clear that social welfare will be contacted on this matter. the pass will be revoked for a year i think from what he said

I don't think it will go to court but your dad will most likely have the pass taken. Mabye it would be worth contacting Irish Rail again and discussing the it further and possible a different member of staff.

Did you get the ticket with your dads pass or did your mother get both of them?

You can see where they are coming from as if the 1.1 million or so pass holders did what you did then everybody would be travling for free.

AlekSmart

butch90 wrote: »

I was fined last month for using my dads travel pass to attend a funeral with my mother. Both parents are on disability allowance with social welfare travel passes. Im currently in college with no income at all.

I made the big mistake of using my dads pass as i did not have any money to make the trip. The funeral was for a family friend so i did not want my mother travelling alone. She is a holder of a travel pass which includes spouse.

I got stopped on the return journey and was issued the fixed penalty notice. i claimed full responsibility and took the punishment. I phoned the head office to pay the fine today. The man over the phone took the payment and then threatened me straight away with court action and he would be investigating the case.

Does this now mean Il be in court with a possible criminal conviction for such a small crime. i took the punishment but i think its way over the top to go and bring me to court now on such a small matter. Il have to get free legal aid as i have no income which will be a burden to the taxpayer and I certainly under no circumstances will be able afford a big fine up to €1000 . Im nearly a qualified engineer and this criminal conviction will ruin my chances of a job in Ireland.

Fair enough il pay for my actions with a €130 fine, but think its over the top to bring me to court.

Has anybody any experience on this matter with Irish Rail

Having been already rebuked by posters in another thread ( http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=84252049 ) for a percieved anti-youth bias in my responses to posts regarding Student difficulties on Public Transport,I therefore opened this thread somewhat warily.

I'm heartened to see such a great level of caring and understanding being displayed in this case,perhaps merited...perhaps not.

Even Foggy_Lad,one who is often incandescent with rage at the supposed reluctance of CIE staff to pounce upon fraudulent DSP Pass use,can only muster a muffled chirp.

Yet,here we have a post which touches SO many bases it's surreal...are we sure it's not some form of Wind-Up ?

I usually enquire early in these threads,as to the nature of the Educational Course being followed,however in this case I note it's an Engineering discipline (Im nearly a qualified engineer ),which suggests,not a freshman but a reasonably advanced student.

Firstly it would appear that it's a Non-Urban Free Travel Pass,with no Photo ID requirement,which underlines the absolute urgency of such a requirement ASAP,if not sooner.

Had the Photo ID been required it is unlikely even the OP would have chanced their arm,unless heavily disguised.

It's equally noteworthy that the OP's fall was not at the first fence,but at Beechers,second time round.

In this,I would enter Foggy_Lad mode and suggest that the IE Ticket Office Staff at the outset did not exercise sufficient vigilance,by demanding that the Free Pass be removed from the wallet and the signature checked.

The OP's problems are however twofold,with the Irish Rail issue being the lesser by a substantial margin.

That €130 Penalty Fare,paid and reciepted is as much as that company requires.
It's Revenue Protection procedures have,in this case,worked to plan,with the detection,pursuance and payment of the relevant amount.

However,the IE person in warning the OP of the possibility of subsequent Court Action,was IMO,referring to action by the DSP who are the owners of the actual document and who are responsible for the rules of the Scheme itself.

It needs to be borne in mind that there is no "Fine" involved here yet,as such can only be levied by a Court,what is involved up to this is IE's Penalty Fare system alone.

It's my opinion,that in the current climate,the OP could well be in a very precarious situation and one which they need to address very rapidly lest it spin out-of-control on them.

The OP made no initial mention of the Father giving them the pass,but rather of them using it.

Such minor issues can often be the making or breaking of a case if a Legal arguement were to follow on from this.

One thing is clear,and that is the OP's father,the Passholder,almost certainly now has to get involved in this,as if we are to believe the OP,his child will implicate him straightaway.

I'd also suggest that having been caught in such a clear cut manner that the OP might find it of benefit to tone the "attitude" down just a tad in references to the IE Staff dealing with the issue..

I was given a law lecture by the officer who told me that they would be checking up cctv images to see had i used the pass on different occasions. I only used the pass that day and told him this. He replied that they would be investigating the matter further which could result in more fines and a court appearance.

Again,the "Officer" was being factual and in this,doing the OP a favour at this early stage as it allows time for some form of mitigation/defence to be put forward.

I'd be kinda grateful for the heads-up to be honest,and for sure I would'nt be tapping out stuff like this...

What a load of nonsense. Are they going to check every journey ever made on bus, rail Luas and be able to zoom in to see a name on a travel pass
Your man sounded like a right eejit or was having a very very bad day.

They know my departure and destination on that date. The officer reckons that even do i got the fine for the journey i could be fined for other journeys on the day. He also said they input the number issued on the travel pass into their system when issuing tickets.

It could be scare tactics and i hope so. I feel i have been punished fairly with the €130 fine.

More Factual stuff from the IE "Eejit",but could be viewed as valuable information also,however at this point there is no "Punishment" involved,it is simply IE balancing it's books with Butch90 for this particular journey and then carrying out due-diligence by ensuring that Butch90 has'nt any other form which could be tidied up in the one case...Quite an efficient scenario I would think....Unusually so !!

I'm just not seeing enough "eejit" on the Irish Rail side of things here TBH,but if that tone reflects the OP's considered opinion on things then there's really not much more advice that can be usefully given here I'd suggest ?

Right now,if I were Butch90,and Butch90's Da,I'd be making tracks to my Local DSP Office and seeking out the individual SW Officer dealing with the Household Benefits Package,(Which,unless I'm mistaken,does have a provision for unforseen expenses including attendance at certain religious cermonies) then outline to that SW Officer all of the relevant details in as truthful a manner as possible,perhaps focusing on any time constraints or other factors which could be interpreted as skewing your Fathers judgement on this.

Irish Rail could turn out to be Butch90's greatest ally in all of this,as if their trawl draws a blank,thats a positive mark for Butch,and one which he should not be too quick to slag-off.

Butch and his Da need to get motivated on this asap,rather than sit and wait for stuff to happen,as all too often,the next step is the issuance of Legal Notices and the involvement of Lawyers,all stuff best avoided in the interests of sanity.

Have to apologise for the length of this response,and I have to reiterate my suspicions as to whether it's a wind up,but equally,if I were Butch,I'd say sweet FA about being a Student at all.

foggy_lad

AlekSmart wrote: »

In this,I would enter Foggy_Lad mode and suggest that the IE Ticket Office Staff at the outset did not exercise sufficient vigilance,by demanding that the Free Pass be removed from the wallet and the signature checked.

The op may well have travelled from one of the many unmanned stations on the network so would have had no opportunity to fraudulently obtain any ticket.

Hilly Bill

foggy_lad wrote: »

The op may well have travelled from one of the many unmanned stations on the network so would have had no opportunity to obtain any ticket

What about the TVM's?

Hilly Bill

OP, you have money to pay the fine but not for a ticket???????

foggy_lad

Hilly Bill wrote: »

What about the TVM's?

You should read the first post.

Hilly Bill

I did

ProudDUB

butch90 wrote: »

It could be scare tactics and i hope so. I feel i have been punished fairly with the €130 fine.

You may think that just a fine is fair and sufficient punishment. Irish Rail don't, and it is their opinion that matters, not yours. If the possibility of prosecution was removed from the equation, you would have far more people dodging fares imo. If all people had to face was a fine, there would be more people thinking that it is worth the odd hit to their wallet every now and then, if it means that they get to ride free for the rest of the time.

The risk of being prosecuted is something that keeps a fair few people on the straight and narrow methinks. This is not the first topic that we have seen here where a poster is worried what implications a legal blot on their copy book may have for their future life, reputation and career prospects. Am pretty sure that it won't be the last one we see either.

I'd agree with AlekSmart, lessen the 'tude just a tad. You know what yer granny used to say - You catch far more flies with honey than you do vinegar !

AlekSmart

foggy_lad wrote: »

The op may well have travelled from one of the many unmanned stations on the network so would have had no opportunity to fraudulently obtain any ticket.

Head of a Pin time,Foggy is'nt it....:P

I can appreciate the ambiguity here,as Butch90's post really does cut to the chase in relation to so much of what you and I regularly joust over.

So I suppose it's understandable that we should give a rousing Huzzah for even as basic an "Out" as the oul unmanned station,mind you that scenario may well explain the return journey catch,as the destination may well have been unmanned too when Butch90 agus a Mhamaí transited.

I'll suggest en equally rousing cheer for the IE Staff Member who did detect the misuse.....or would that be seen as ladling it on..?

Butch90's parents also appear to be a little unique in that both qualify for Disability Allowance related Free Travel in their own right,with his Mother's being a Spouse/Partner whilst his Fathers appears to be Pass Holder Only (?)

Victor

Hilly Bill wrote: »

What about the TVM's?

foggy_lad wrote: »

You should read the first post.

Hilly Bill wrote: »

I did

Go on, explain what the two of you mean. Bonus marks if you can demonstrate the posts were on-topic and constructive.

Moderator

Hilly Bill

I think it explains itself Victor.

foggy_lad

Victor wrote: »

Go on, explain what the two of you mean. Bonus marks if you can demonstrate the posts were on-topic and constructive.

Moderator

As the op had used a free travel pass to travel he could not have got a ticket from any machine at the station. Op mentioned using the pass in the first post.

Hilly Bill

Foggy, the OP mentioned using the pass but didnt mention that he or she didnt have the opportunity the obtain a ticket like you said. In answer to your post, the opportunity was there via the TVM'S.
The OP didnt mention anything about the stations being unmanned or manned in the opening post, so any speculation as to what happened or what may have happened is jumping the gun a bit.

foggy_lad

Hilly Bill wrote: »

Foggy, the OP mentioned using the pass but didnt mention that he or she didnt have the opportunity the obtain a ticket like you said. In answer to your post, the opportunity was there via the TVM'S.
The OP didnt mention anything about the stations being unmanned or manned in the opening post, so any speculation as to what happened or what may have happened is jumping the gun a bit.

As the op was (fraudulently) using the travel pass he would not have had the option of getting aa ticket from the machine as they only issue tickets to paying passengers. Free pass holders must obtain a ticket from the booking office if it is open. I simply highlighted this to you aftet your comment about the op using the TVMs. Nothing more to it and doesn't require any further off topic response.

Peppa Pig

AlekSmart wrote: »

I'm just not seeing enough "eejit" on the Irish Rail side of things here

PeppaPig wrote:

Your man sounded like a right eejit or was having a very very bad day.

If you are going to quote me please use the full quote and ensure you don't misrepresent what I said. Thank you

The IR guy said they would use CCTV to check if the OP had used it previously. Are you seriously telling me that IR will spend time reviewing every rail journey since the pass was issued? Or that, if they have a record of the days it was used they can pick out the OP and zoom in on his ticket?

Right now,if I were Butch90,and Butch90's Da,I'd be making tracks to my Local DSP Office and seeking out the individual SW Officer dealing with the Household Benefits Package,

The household benefits has nothing to do with the Free travel pass. They are separate schemes.

AlekSmart

Peppa Pig wrote: »

If you are going to quote me please use the full quote and ensure you don't misrepresent what I said. Thank you

The IR guy said they would use CCTV to check if the OP had used it previously. Are you seriously telling me that IR will spend time reviewing every rail journey since the pass was issued? Or that, if they have a record of the days it was used they can pick out the OP and zoom in on his ticket?

What has this got to do with anything?

Oh and the household benefits has nothing to do with the Free travel pass.they are separate schemes.

Firstly,my apologies Peppa Pig,as I was under the impression I was quoting the OP,Butch90,however it seem's that my browser had a blonde moment which left sections of posts unwrapped.

I can assure you I have neither the need nor intent to misrepresent anyone,however,just for pig-iron,and to prevent any further ambiguity I'll use your full quote as in Post#4.

Quote:
Originally Posted by butch90.
Both parents are on disability allowance with social welfare travel passes.

Is her pass not a companion travel pass?
If she is then you were entitled to travel on that pass as her companion.

Quote:
they would be checking up cctv images to see had i used the pass on different occasions.

What a load of nonsense. Are they going to check every journey ever made on bus, rail Luas and be able to zoom in to see a name on a travel pass

Your man sounded like a right eejit or was having a very very bad day

The issue of the Free Pass type has already been clarified by the OP and subsequently by Foggy_Lad,who correctly points out that not all OAP passes are Spouse/Partner and not all Disability Passes are Companion,both classifications are dependant upon the Status of the Holder as recorded by the DSP.

Again,apologies for the faux-pas.

However my issue over the "eejit" remains,and justifiably I believe.

From what Butch90 posts the IE Staff he dealt with were nothing but factual,all along the line.

None of Butch90's posts appear to have any major issue with the IE Staff's performance,except that they failed to tell him what he wanted to hear,but instead told him what he needed to know.

It was explained that each IE Free Travel Journey is cross referenced with the relevant Free Pass number,thereby substantially reducing whatever amount of CCTV footage requiring inspection,it is not commonplcace for sure,but it is entirely possible should the situation warrant it.

They gave him factual information at an early stage,which he can then,if he so desires,use to pre-empt or at least reduce the severity of any potential negative outcome.

Can you outline what exactly makes this Staff Member an "Eejit" in this regard,would you prefer he fed Butch90 a load of soft-focus blather just to get him off the phone ?

Why on earth would you see this sort of exchange as always having to involve an IE Staffer "having a very bad day" ?....given the current situation with the Free Travel Scheme I would suggest it's just another,Ho-Hum Boring,Ordinary ol day.

If there's allegations of misrepresentation going to be thrown about,I'd be inclined to regard any employee being labeled an "Eejit" or "On a very bad day" for being calmly factual and upfront as being an equally good example of them ?

On the issue of what the Household Benefits Package "has to do with anything"...this was referring to the fact that Butch90's mother had to attend this funeral at short notice,with lack of funding being the issue quoted by Butch90 himself.

I should have referred to the DSP Supplementary Welfare Allowance Scheme rather than the Household Benefits Package,as the former does have a "Special Needs Provision"

http://www.welfare.ie/en/Pages/Supplementary-Welfare-Allowance.aspx

Exceptional Needs Payments

If you are getting a social welfare or Health Service Executive payment, you may qualify for a once off payment to meet an exceptional need. There is no automatic entitlement to this payment Each application is determined by the Health Service Executive based on the particular circumstances of the case. An exceptional needs payment covers essential, once-off exceptional spending that you could not reasonably be expected to meet out of your weekly income

However,the fact that Butch90's parents do not appear to be assessed as being "Medically unfit to travel alone" might be seen as lessening their chances of the DSP funding his accompanying his Mother on this occasion.

I hope this clarifies things for you ?

foggy_lad

AlekSmart wrote: »

It was explained that each IE Free Travel Journey is cross referenced with the relevant Free Pass number,thereby substantially reducing whatever amount of CCTV footage requiring inspection,it is not commonplcace for sure,but it is entirely possible should the situation warrant it.

Just a slight correction, the ability is there to print each pass holders PPS number onto each ticket but this is rarely if ever done. The norm is that the last two or three numbers are put on the ticket and sometimes the number does not even correspond with any number on the pass.

Peppa Pig

AlekSmart wrote: »

It was explained that each IE Free Travel Journey is cross referenced with the relevant Free Pass number,

I have a free pass through disability. I've rarely used it. On the few occasions I have used it have been from Leixlip to Pearse. There is nobody at Leixlip so the pass is not shown. On exiting at Pearse , I've shown the pass to the staff at the gate and they have waved me on.
On the return journeys I've gone to the ticket office at Pearse and got a physical ticket. On no occasion has my pass been checked or any number taken.

Maybe my experience is not the norm, I would hope it is not. Although I can barely walk more than 50 yards I do not have any obvious disability, nor do I look like an OAP:D.

So when I hear of an IR employee talking about looking at CCTV footage, based on my actual experiences using a pass, it sounds nonsense to me. If I'm wrong, then great.

I've used it on the Luas and DB a couple of times as well. It's never been checked. They're not all as conscientious as you:)

One thing I will most certainly agree with is the non-urban pass. I got mine 3 years ago and could not comprehend why all I had to do to validate it was to put my signature on it. I could have given the unsigned pass to anyone and the abuse would be hard to detect.

Peppa Pig

foggy_lad wrote: »

Just a slight correction, the ability is there to print each pass holders PPS number onto each ticket but this is rarely if ever done. The norm is that the last two or three numbers are put on the ticket and sometimes the number does not even correspond with any number on the pass.

My pass has 95 printed before my full PPS number

foggy_lad

Peppa Pig wrote: »

One thing I will most certainly agree with is the non-urban pass. I got mine 3 years ago and could not comprehend why all I had to do to validate it was to put my signature on it. I could have given the unsigned pass to anyone and the abuse would be hard to detect.

If you found yourself using the pass more often you may at some point be questioned about the photopass and asked why you don't have it, or told to get it asap or risk having your pass confiscated. Most people would view Leixlip as being part of the urban area of Dublin city.

foggy_lad

Peppa Pig wrote: »

My pass has 95 printed before my full PPS number

That is for the DSP for office use but should be quoted if asked for your pass number.

AlekSmart

Peppa Pig wrote: »

I have a free pass through disability. I've rarely used it. On the few occasions I have used it have been from Leixlip to Pearse. There is nobody at Leixlip so the pass is not shown. On exiting at Pearse , I've shown the pass to the staff at the gate and they have waved me on.

On the return journeys I've gone to the ticket office at Pearse and got a physical ticket. On no occasion has my pass been checked or any number taken.

Maybe my experience is not the norm, I would hope it is not. Although I can barely walk more than 50 yards I do not have any obvious disability, nor do I look like an OAP:D.

So when I hear of an IR employee talking about looking at CCTV footage, based on my actual experiences using a pass, it sounds nonsense to me. If I'm wrong, then great.

I've used it on the Luas and DB a couple of times as well. It's never been checked. They're not all as conscientious as you:)

One thing I will most certainly agree with is the non-urban pass. I got mine 3 years ago and could not comprehend why all I had to do to validate it was to put my signature on it. I could have given the unsigned pass to anyone and the abuse would be hard to detect.

All well and good Peppa,but the facility is there,could and should be used,and may well be used in Butch90's case,particularly if the "Eejit" having the very bad day was a concientious "Eejit" too....(a particularly fearsome combination :eek: )

I always insist on seeing a DSP Pass,if only to reinforce the message that displaying it is a requirement,which was writ large on the documentation that accompanied it.

It is also the only,sadly crude,manner of ensuring that One Pass serves One Person,rather than the Photo ID being used by the actual holder and the hard-copy,minus ID,by a relative nodded through by yet another type of "eejit"...;)

I think it's well accepted by now,that the DSP's Free Travel Scheme in it's current state of operation is just about finished.

The required "noises-off" are already being made,OECD reports recommending Means-Testing" for a Range of Benefits,Various Ministers puffing and blowing about anti-fraud measures and the likes.....

All window-dressing in reality,as the Government struggles to come to terms with what 40 years of abject neglect of an innovative and successful Social Support measure has resulted in.....a total shambles.

The current situation of a funding freeze at 2010 levels allied to a substantial increase in the number of Free Travel Passes being issued merely makes the end-game ever more imminent.

At this stage the only thing keeping the FTS afloat is the State's control of the CIE Group companies,whereby it can "use it's influence" to keep the level of boardroom unease at the financial black-hole quiet....for now.

The recent Dáil Committee grilling of the DSP's Secretary General was most illustrative of the "Carlsberg Cobwebbed Office" nature of her Department.....

http://www.irishtimes.com/news/free-travel-payment-based-on-1973-survey-committee-hears-1.1326052

The scale of Ms Niamh O'Donoghue's undoubtedly well founded financial acumen is revealed in this little gem.....

The benefits available for people on the free travel and the number of beneficiaries had increased at no cost, she said. CIÉ also believed they were being underpaid, she added.

Can anybody put some perspective on this viewpoint,as it would appear to represent an Irish Civil Service version of the Miracle of Loaves & Fishes..?

The main issue for me,as somebody faced with the reality of the FTS daily,is whether it can be wound-down and rescued as a functional,albeit narrower focused scheme,OR whether it will simply collapse spectacularly,with the IMF or some such entity being blamed..?

Peppa Pig

foggy_lad wrote: »

Most people would view Leixlip as being part of the urban area of Dublin city.

You're a brave man if you tell somebody form Leixlip they are a Dub:D
I live in Kildare, which is why I have no photo id. It's ridiculous.

foggy_lad

Peppa Pig wrote: »

You're a brave man if you tell somebody form Leixlip they are a Dub:D
I live in Kildare, which is why I have no photo id. It's ridiculous.

Us lilywhites are always brave.

As said before though the photo pass is so easily forged it makes little sense. If a change was made making it compulsory to carry a passport or garda age card it would cut fraudout almost fully in a day.

Victor

Peppa Pig wrote: »

The household benefits has nothing to do with the Free travel pass. They are separate schemes.

The two are being lumped together in the drive for savings by the DSP.

Hilly Bill

foggy_lad wrote: »

As the op was (fraudulently) using the travel pass he would not have had the option of getting aa ticket from the machine as they only issue tickets to paying passengers. Free pass holders must obtain a ticket from the booking office if it is open. I simply highlighted this to you aftet your comment about the op using the TVMs. Nothing more to it and doesn't require any further off topic response.

Im fully aware what a pass holder must do. They key word that you used was OPTION.

ShadowFox

Firstly OP take a deep breath and relax. You paid the fixed fair of €130 what the "officer" from IE was informing you of regarding court was if you have used the pass in the past or future they will take you to court
To clear up another point there is no need for them to check every piece of cctv as every time a travel pass is used the number of the pass is printed on the ticket so all they have to do is type in the travel pass number see when it was used and check that cctv
OP was the travel pass taken off of you by the Irish Rail staff ?

foggy_lad

ShadowFox wrote: »

To clear up another point there is no need for them to check every piece of cctv as every time a travel pass is used the number of the pass is printed on the ticket so all they have to do is type in the travel pass number see when it was used and check that cctv

This rarely happens, mostly only the last 3-4 numbers are put on the ticket.

Gatling

Glad to see the clamp down in effect ,
Was on a bus today when it was broadcast across the drivers radio that several inspector's were going to board the bus to check tickets ,I've a DA pass photo included ,the usual suspects from older (pocket tappers ) to student's that boarded with passes suddenly jump up and payed full fares or jumped off at the next stop was almost comical

ShadowFox

foggy_lad wrote: »

This rarely happens, mostly only the last 3-4 numbers are put on the ticket.

The last 3-4 numbers is all that shows up on the ticket like on a credit card recite

foggy_lad

ShadowFox wrote: »

The last 3-4 numbers is all that shows up on the ticket like on a credit card recite

There is room to put the full number on the ticket but only the last few are ever used! It is not like a credit card number where most is obscured for security.

Hilly Bill

All that matters is that the numbers on the ticket matches the numbers on your pass, be it the last 4 or 5 numbers or the whole lot of them.

Cool_CM

Incidentally they seem to be stepping up their ticket checks. There were guys waiting at the exit to the platform at Portmarnock at around 5:30 on Tuesday and just got checked on the train from Maynooth to Connolly (Commuter) too.

Hilly Bill

It will be stepped even further soon especially on the commuters.