PGA Tour Thread

abff · 04-08-2014 05:41PM

ssbob wrote: »

Actually if you get time abff, your a stats man like me, maybe we should compare performances since the start of 2014 for all the players in and around contention? Would be good to define who is genuinely in form.

Interesting question Bob. I've had a look at what the rankings would be if the European Points List was based on the current season and the World Points List was based on points earned during 2014. The table would be as follows:

European Points List World Points List
MCILROY Rory €3,774,512 Rory McIlroy 363.42
GARCIA Sergio €2,242,117 Sergio Garcia 251.73
BJÖRN Thomas €1,693,987 Martin Kaymer 210.93
KAYMER Martin €1,568,693 Justin Rose 199.97
DONALDSON Jamie €1,475,963 Stephen Gallacher 136.07
ROSE Justin €1,440,959 Graeme McDowell 120.38
GALLACHER Stephen €1,282,390 Henrik Stenson 111.47
DUBUISSON Victor €1,261,407 Victor Dubuisson 95.75
STENSON Henrik €1,257,456 Luke Donald 95.15
MCDOWELL Graeme €1,199,391 Miguel A Jimenez 91.00
JIMÉNEZ Miguel Angel €1,084,077 Lee Westwood 87.01
LOWRY Shane €895,787 Francesco Molinari 84.19

Apart from relative positions, the only difference compared to the official table is that Stephen Gallacher is in an automatic place instead of Jamie Donaldson. Westwood is a bit closer to automatic selection in the above table, which may strengthen the case for his inclusion.

Potentially, this week could go a long way to clarifying matters. However, there may be a few relatively minor European Tour events over the following weeks that will attract a stronger than usual field.

Slicemeister · 04-08-2014 06:06PM

abff wrote: »

Not sure what's the relevance of the Valhalla reference. The 2008 Ryder Cup was played there and this year's PGA, but the 2014 Ryder Cup will be played in Scotland.

Yeah brainfreeze on my behalf. Gleneagles.

abff · 04-08-2014 06:12PM

As an adjunct to my earlier post, this season's earnings include the Nedbank Challenge. If this was excluded, Thomas Bjorn would be nowhere near making the team. I commented on this at the time and I still believe that money and OWGR points won in 'wheelbarrow' events should not count towards the Ryder Cup. Having said this, I don't begrudge Bjorn his place in the team. But it will be interesting to see how well he plays.

cairny · 04-08-2014 11:00PM

Slicemeister wrote: »

No wind up. The man just blitzed a tough trackin a Senior Major to 17 or somewhat under, finished T8 at the Masters and is in some physical and mental condition. Only negative is his age but he can do a job for the team. Certainly brings more to the table than a Westwood, Donaldson or Lowry, all the more when Kaymer has already qualified.

Wind up. You'll have your bellyful of those this weekend. Hope the humour befalls you

McGinley was asked about Langer on Sky on Thursday and ruled it out on the basis that he had only played one regular tournament (Masters) so not comparing like with like.

Not going to happen.

vienne86 · 05-08-2014 08:51AM

cairny wrote: »

McGinley was asked about Langer on Sky on Thursday and ruled it out on the basis that he had only played one regular tournament (Masters) so not comparing like with like.

Not going to happen.

And I think McGinley is right there - it would be a big ask....a lot of golf in three days. As an earlier post said, this week should sort out a lot.

abff · 05-08-2014 11:44AM

Talking about McGinley, I see that he's not on the list of tee times. Does anyone know why he's not playing?

Speak Now · 05-08-2014 11:44AM

abff wrote: »

Talking about McGinley, I see that he's not on the list of tee times. Does anyone know why he's not playing?

Injured.

Dolph Starbeam · 05-08-2014 11:45AM

abff wrote: »

Talking about McGinley, I see that he's not on the list of tee times. Does anyone know why he's not playing?

Think he's injured.

mickmackey1 · 05-08-2014 11:48AM

Advised to rest after shoulder surgery.

GreeBo · 05-08-2014 02:27PM

rrpc wrote: »

McGinley has talked about the team dynamic. Langer hasn't been part of the team for years, so he would hardly be an easy fit into that dynamic. It's also an awful lot of golf in a very short time at a level only really comparable to the last day of a championship with a win on the line. Not exactly where you would think a guy Langer's age would be able to keep up.

He could play once a day for 3 days, like he does on the Senior Tour.

GreeBo · 05-08-2014 02:28PM

mickmackey1 wrote: »

Advised to rest after shoulder surgery.

He better not, he's bringing all the Sky lads over to Grange to do a televised clinic next week! :eek:

Carpo86 · 05-08-2014 02:57PM

GreeBo wrote: »

He better not, he's bringing all the Sky lads over the Grange to do a televised clinic next week! :eek:

:eek::eek:

More seriously, I'd imagine he doesn't quite have to be as fit for a clinic as he would for a major championship!

GreeBo · 05-08-2014 11:00PM

Carpo86 wrote: »

:eek::eek:

More seriously, I'd imagine he doesn't quite have to be as fit for a clinic as he would for a major championship!

Damn auto correct!
True, but injured is injured!

vienne86 · 06-08-2014 09:37AM

GreeBo wrote: »

He could play once a day for 3 days, like he does on the Senior Tour.

I think there are better in-form players for McGinley to choose from.

BigChap1759 · 06-08-2014 09:40AM

GreeBo wrote: »

He could play once a day for 3 days, like he does on the Senior Tour.

This would be a crazy strategy IMO, bring in a senior and then have to manage him due to age/fitness etc

Surely better with tried and tested player who has form in regular events and it fit to be played when called upon.

GreeBo · 06-08-2014 09:42AM

vienne86 wrote: »

I think there are better in-form players for McGinley to choose from.

Hard to quantify that though.
I think he would have beaten anybody the other week, from any tour.

He is not exactly a player to get rattled and doesn't need to be able to play all 3 days. Would you put Jimenez ahead of him?

GreeBo · 06-08-2014 09:50AM

BigChap1759 wrote: »

This would be a crazy strategy IMO, bring in a senior and then have to manage him due to age/fitness etc

Surely better with tried and tested player who has form in regular events and it fit to be played when called upon.

Everyone cant play all the days though, and it would hardly be the first time that someone didnt play due to tiredness.
If often happens that someone only plays a singles due to poor form etc, I wouldnt see anything crazy about someone playing 3 out of 5 times.

ssbob · 06-08-2014 12:46PM

GreeBo wrote: »

Hard to quantify that though.
I think he would have beaten anybody the other week, from any tour.

He is not exactly a player to get rattled and doesn't need to be able to play all 3 days. Would you put Jimenez ahead of him?

yes it is easy to quantify it:

Ask Bernhard to play the last remaining qualifying events and compete against the regular pro's.

ssbob · 06-08-2014 12:49PM

Have all the Langer supporters forgotten this............

GreeBo · 06-08-2014 01:08PM

ssbob wrote: »

Have all the Langer supporters forgotten this............

Golfer misses 6 foot putt shocker?

Are you forgetting the 2 clutch putts he made on the two previous holes to even take the match that far?

rrpc · 06-08-2014 03:50PM

GreeBo wrote: »

Everyone cant play all the days though, and it would hardly be the first time that someone didnt play due to tiredness.
If often happens that someone only plays a singles due to poor form etc, I wouldnt see anything crazy about someone playing 3 out of 5 times.

That's a good point, however...

You shouldn't start your championship already being hamstrung effectively by one of your players. You should start with all your team available and able to play four out of five.

You obviously can't use them all for four out of five matches but making those choices should be the captain's prerogative rather than being forced on him from the start.

ssbob · 06-08-2014 05:11PM

GreeBo wrote: »

Golfer misses 6 foot putt shocker?

Are you forgetting the 2 clutch putts he made on the two previous holes to even take the match that far?

You said above however he doesn't get rattled, what was he doing putting the ball 6 feet by from where he was with the 3rd shot. That 6 feet putt was makeable, he didn't make it.

Who would prefer? Gmac or Langer taking that putt to retain the trophy based on current form?

GreeBo · 07-08-2014 12:23PM

ssbob wrote: »

You said above however he doesn't get rattled, what was he doing putting the ball 6 feet by from where he was with the 3rd shot. That 6 feet putt was makeable, he didn't make it.

Who would prefer? Gmac or Langer taking that putt to retain the trophy based on current form?

Every putt in fact almost every shot is in theory makeable, that means little in reality though.
He had a choice of taking the correct line and putting through 2 crusty spike marks or going straight at it and firm. It broke anyway and burnt the edge.

It was a 45 foot breaking putt over a tier, 6 foot past isn't exactly a horrendous result.

Rattled?
He was also two down with four to go. He had to make three putts on 15, 16 and 17 to even get into that position to have a chance to win.

Rattled is Hale Irwin chunking his chip when a half wins it, or how about Hunter Mahan doing the chilli dip against McDowell.

Missing a 6 footer is not even in the same ballpark as rattled imo.

ssbob · 07-08-2014 12:49PM

GreeBo wrote: »

It was a 45 foot breaking putt over a tier, 6 foot past isn't exactly a horrendous result.

For a pro it is:

The last ranked player in 3 putt avoidance over 25 feet still avoids 3 putts over 80% of the time. The best player avoids it 96% of the time. This was the time to avoid it.

Anyway, this is neither here nor there.

Do you think Langer would contribute more to the team than Donald/McDowell/Poulter/Gallacher and if so give me your reasons (These are likely the players that are going to need a pick)

I think he was a great player and has been the best player on the champions tour by a mile but champions tour is not the same as the regular tour no matter what you say.

GreeBo · 07-08-2014 11:35PM

ssbob wrote: »

For a pro it is:

The last ranked player in 3 putt avoidance over 25 feet still avoids 3 putts over 80% of the time. The best player avoids it 96% of the time. This was the time to avoid it.

Anyway, this is neither here nor there.

Do you think Langer would contribute more to the team than Donald/McDowell/Poulter/Gallacher and if so give me your reasons (These are likely the players that are going to need a pick)

I think he was a great player and has been the best player on the champions tour by a mile but champions tour is not the same as the regular tour no matter what you say.

I don't think you can use one putt on one hole to make any meaningful point about a player.
Do I think he should definitely be on the team? No.
Do I think he should be excluded because of age? No.

I don't think I said both tours were the same, but golf is golf. He can hit the ball and get it in the hole. I think that's all that is required.
There is no guarantee from anyone.

ssbob · 08-08-2014 10:42AM

GreeBo wrote: »

I don't think you can use one putt on one hole to make any meaningful point about a player.
Do I think he should definitely be on the team? No.
Do I think he should be excluded because of age? No.

I don't think I said both tours were the same, but golf is golf. He can hit the ball and get it in the hole. I think that's all that is required.
There is no guarantee from anyone.

I agree with all of what you are saying above, I never raised an issue with his age, my problem is that comparing what he is doing on the ST to the guys playing on the Regular Tour is not a fair comparison.

In the last Ryder Cup, he was also mentioned in the run up, he may have been more of a possibility then with a clearer picture of who was going to be on the team however this time, I think there are far too many golfers ahead of him.

Also I don't think he has any desire to play, if he did then he would have made more of an effort to play in qualifying events.