Bicycle marathons reduce suicide rates.

vronki

How long is this country going to deny that all these charitable 'awareness' events do nothing (as statistics show) to reduce suicide? Surely the country needs to examine the real reasons behind such violence.

If the youth are being told that their life is precious and to talk to someone when they are suicidal, and then on the other hand being told that eliminating human life either in the womb or at old age is acceptable, then no strategy is going to work. They both contradict one another. Either all human life is precious or it isn't.

So Irish celebrities (many who are liberal about ending life) are going to cycle across Ireland now, feeling good about themselves. 'Raising awareness'.

In the case of Ireland, one can ask when suicide became a problem. Does it have something to do with high divorce rates? Most marriages are in Christian churches, which declare that one person is created at marriage, so divorce is the murder or suicide of that one person. So don't be surprised if the following generation mimick just that.

super_furry

And yet because of them here you are on an internet forum talking about the suicide problem in this country. Because of them, RTE covered and spoke about the rising suicide problem in this country.

Talking about and acknowledging our problem is the first step in helping people who need help.

vronki

super_furry wrote: »

And yet because of them here you are on an internet forum talking about the suicide problem in this country. Because of them, RTE covered and spoke about the rising suicide problem in this country.

Talking about and acknowledging our problem is the first step in helping people who need help.

It doesn't work, does it? We've been talking and acknowledging for years and it's still happening. Cut the bull****. It is our liberal-death-views which encourage suicide rates, not 'not talkiing about feelings' since men long ago never did and they weren't offing themselves in huge numbers every year. Though I'm sure feminizing men is what women would love, to give them an advantage. Since they're always going to be the stronger she.

Sulla Felix

Are they making you cycle across Ireland too? If not, what exactly is the problem with it, they can do what the fúck they like, for whatever reason they like, surely.

super_furry

You're here talking about it. It clearly does. Unfortunately you seem to be using this event to further some daft catholic agenda.

SEPT 23 1989

A bit heavy for a Monday morning

vronki

Sulla Felix wrote: »

Are they making you cycle across Ireland too? If not, what exactly is the problem with it, they can do what the fúck they like, for whatever reason they like, surely.

What a ridiculous thing to say. And totally missing my point.

vronki

super_furry wrote: »

You're here talking about it. It clearly does. Unfortunately you seem to be using this event to further some daft catholic agenda.

Criticizing divorce isn't a catholic agenda, you don' have to be Catholic to value marriage.

Anyway, it's not as if people want to admit that it is divorce that's causing this, or at least encourages it.

kneemos

I think there's a theory that people didn't kill themselves years ago because of the church teachings on suicide,anyone of an older generation will be well aware of the fear that was beaten into us as youngsters.

vronki

kneemos wrote: »

I think there's a theory that people didn't kill themselves years ago because of the church teachings on suicide,anyone of an older generation will be well aware of the fear that was beaten into us as youngsters.

Divorce is suicide though. In the Christianized west which has Christian theology at the roots of its culture, high divorce rates and high suicide rates correlate.

Mazeire

Events such as marathons are to raise awareness and funding for organisations that can help and support those affected by whatever issue they choose to address. Not to stop anything. I think it may be you who is missing the point OP.

kylith

The awareness raising is probably more use than the OP thinks. After all, it's impossible to collect statistics on people who were thinking about committing suicide but didn't.

super_furry

vronki wrote: »

Divorce is suicide though. In the Christianized west which has Christian theology at the roots of its culture, high divorce rates and high suicide rates correlate.

Correlation does not imply causation. You're talking out of your arse.

"Divorce is suicide" is the single most stupid three word statement I've read here.

Play To Kill

vronki wrote: »

Anyway, it's not as if people want to admit that it is divorce that's causing this, or at least encourages it.

I'm divorced, I'm also a man, when will divorce make me feel like committing suicide? Should I be worried?

vronki

Mazeire wrote: »

Events such as marathons are to raise awareness and funding for organisations that can help and support those affected by whatever issue they choose to address. Not to stop anything. I think it may be you who is missing the point OP.

These events aren't doing anything to reduce rates. They are just self-satisfying facades erected by people to make themselves feel better, because they contribute and encourage death in other forms. Driven by a guilty conscience.

Mazeire

vronki wrote: »

Divorce is suicide though. In the Christianized west which has Christian theology at the roots of its culture, high divorce rates and high suicide rates correlate.

A divorce is merely the end result of an extremely long and painful process of fights emotional distress psychological pain and stress for two people and their family. Do you not think it's those factors that contribute to any supposed link between suicide and divorce rather than the divorce itself which is just a legal formality.

super_furry

http://xkcd.com/552/

vronki

Play To Kill wrote: »

I'm divorced, I'm also a man, when will divorce make me feel like committing suicide? Should I be worried?

That's not what I meant at all. Stop playing dumb. I was positing that the generation which follows from a generation that commit suicide in a different way, will go on to commit suicide in a different way, also.

Mazeire

vronki wrote: »

These events aren't doing anything to reduce rates. They are just self-satisfying facades erected by people to make themselves feel better, because they contribute and encourage death in other forms. Driven by a guilty conscience.

Read what I said. To raise awareness and to raise funding for support and help not to stop anything. Are you going to be one of those OP's who deliberately decide just to warp what anyone is saying to then to support their own agenda then?

vronki

Mazeire wrote: »

A divorce is merely the end result of an extremely long and painful process of fights emotional distress psychological pain and stress for two people and their family. Do you not think it's those factors that contribute to any supposed link between suicide and divorce rather than the divorce itself which is just a legal formality.

Legal formality? People get married in churches so it seems to be a lot more than that. Look, there is probably a number of divorced people here who will feel condemned by this. So predictable they will fight tooth and nail to defend themselves. That's expected.

We should be mindful of the real causes for this, and not fluff it up as 'men not talking'. Since men for most of human civilization weren't talking. It's men being men.

crusher000

vronki wrote: »

That's not what I meant at all. Stop playing dumb. I was positing that the generation which follows from a generation that commit suicide in a different way, will go on to commit suicide in a different way, also.

Fair play you have it all figured out. This is going to go around and around. I'm dizzy all ready.

Mazeire

Here you go OP have a read of this. Men being men indeed....

http://www.independent.ie/unsorted/features/men-who-fear-disclosure-more-than-death-26306007.html

vronki

Mazeire wrote: »

Here you go OP have a read of this. Men being men indeed....

http://www.independent.ie/unsorted/features/men-who-fear-disclosure-more-than-death-26306007.html

You can put your faith in Harry Ferguson if you like. Feminizing men is not a solution to our suicide rates.

Also, it is pointless not to have a real strategy in dealing with suicide rates. Otherwise, it will just continue like it has.

Tiddlypeeps

vronki wrote: »

Criticizing divorce isn't a catholic agenda, you don' have to be Catholic to value marriage.

Anyway, it's not as if people want to admit that it is divorce that's causing this, or at least encourages it.

If you want to claim that divorce, abortion and euthanasia are causing people to commit suicide then you need to provide some evidence for that if you want anybody to take you seriously. 'It just makes sense' or 'I feel it to be true' are not good enough.

vronki wrote: »

Divorce is suicide though. In the Christianized west which has Christian theology at the roots of its culture, high divorce rates and high suicide rates correlate.

Correlation does not imply causation. It is perfectly feasible that a person can leave their partner because they are unhappy and then go on to commit suicide because they are still unhappy. It does not follow that one has to cause the other.

I can just as easily say the reason for the increase in suicide rates are electrical signals seeping into peoples brains and messing things up. Radio and wireless technology has increased massively over the last few decades so the correlation is there.

Mazeire

vronki wrote: »

Legal formality? People get married in churches so it seems to be a lot more than that.
n.

No actually they don't. Ever heard of registry offices? Civil unions? Or does the pain caused by one of those unions failing invalid or irrelevant to you because the ceremony didn't take place in the requisite venue? Also if someone one did get married on a church you say it is not a legally binding relationship what is it in your opinion?

super_furry

vronki wrote: »

We should be mindful of the real causes for this

Show me a single grain of proof for your daft claims that "divorce is suicide".

vronki

Tiddlypeeps wrote: »

Correlation does not imply causation. It is perfectly feasible that a person can leave their partner because they are unhappy and then go on to commit suicide because they are still unhappy. It does not follow that one has to cause the other.

You misunderstood my point. I am not saying divorce rates cause literal suicide with those who have actually divorced. That's a ridiculous idea. I am saying that high divorce rates is a form of high suicide rate. And so this generation mimicks the former.

Please don't twist my words around again, thanks.

Mazeire

vronki wrote: »

You can put your faith in Harry Ferguson if you like. Feminizing men is not a solution to our suicide rates.

Also, it is pointless not to have a real strategy in dealing with suicide rates. Otherwise, it will just continue like it has.

"Feminising men": explain what you mean by this term in the context of this topic please.

A real strategy when dealing with suicide rates": What are your suggestions?

VinLieger

What is the op trying to say? Also im confused how they managed to bring in euthanasia and abortion in as causes of suicide?

vronki

super_furry wrote: »

Show me a single grain of proof for your daft claims that "divorce is suicide".

The west is built on Christian theology, whether you like it or not. In Christian theology, divorce is an actual real suicide - of the one person/flesh created at marriage. So divorce is the murder of this one person, it's a suicide.

In a society in which 50% or so of people commit suicide in the form of divorce, is it any wonder that we have high suicide rates?

Like I said before nobody is going to want to accept this, but that isn't a good enough reason to sweep it aside.

This is our problem, created by us.

super_furry

VinLieger wrote: »

What is the op trying to say? Also im confused how they managed to bring in euthanasia and abortion in as causes of suicide?

He/she is saying that legalisation of divorce has led to an increase in suicide and that a public discussion on abortion has done the same. They've also started wibbling on about "feminising men".

Smacks of the daft ramblings of an Iona institute inductee.

Mazeire

vronki wrote: »

The west is built on Christian theology, whether you like it or not. In Christian theology, divorce is an actual real suicide - of the one person/flesh created at marriage. So divorce is the murder of this one person, it's a suicide.

In a society in which 50% or so of people commit suicide in the form of divorce, is it any wonder that we have high suicide rates?

Like I said before nobody is going to want to accept this, but that isn't a good enough reason to sweep it aside.

This is our problem, created by us.

To clarify are you suggesting that divorce is a suicide in itself because you are killing a person. That person being the union of the man and the woman that they formed when they married?

vronki

VinLieger wrote: »

What is the op trying to say? Also im confused how they managed to bring in euthanasia and abortion in as causes of suicide?

Does abortion and euthanasia value human life? No it treats it as a burden, garbage. So don't be surprised if young people treat their own life this way. That's how it's related.

In other words, Being liberal about killing in whatever form is not going to give a good example to our youth. It's a contradiction.

vronki

Mazeire wrote: »

To clarify are you suggesting that divorce is a suicide in itself because you are killing a person. That person being the union of the man and the woman that they formed when they married?

Spiritually, yes. If that claimed meta-physical is a reality, that indeed one person is created, then divorce is a murder of that one person.

super_furry

vronki wrote: »

Does abortion and euthanasia value human life? No it treats it as a burden, garbage. So don't be surprised if young people treat their own life this way. That's how it's related.

And can you offer even the slightest piece of evidence to back up these claims?

Suicide rates in Ireland have risen sharply since Pope Benedict XVI was given his fancy hat in 2005. I think he's to blame. His papacy created such a sense of despair in people.

VinLieger

vronki wrote: »

Does abortion and euthanasia value human life? No it treats it as a burden, garbage. So don't be surprised if young people treat their own life this way. That's how it's related.

In other words, Being liberal about killing in whatever form is not going to give a good example to our youth. It's a contradiction.

Honestly are you Ronan Mullen?

Mazeire

vronki wrote: »

Spiritually, yes. If that claimed meta-physical is a reality, that indeed one person is created, then divorce is a murder of that one person.

And would you then say that this suicide is contributing to the current statistics?

vronki

super_furry wrote: »

And can you offer even the slightest piece of evidence to back up these claims.

Suicide rates in Ireland have risen sharply since Pope Benedict XVI was given his fancy hat in 2005. I think he's to blame.

Pathetic. Nobody ever listened to him. The media sliced out controversial segments here and there. His was a message of life. I'm astounded at these dumb responses.

Angron

vronki wrote: »

Pathetic. Nobody ever listened to him. The media sliced out controversial segments here and there. His was a message of life. I'm astounded at these dumb responses.

You can't really claim the high ground here.

o1s1n

Wow, this is some of the worst pseudo-intellectual garbage I've ever read on boards. Well done OP, keep rockin' those mind boggling odd yet original Iona ideals - you provide much mirth and entertainment for the rest of us.

Chips Lovell

What is this "feminising" of men that's meant to be happening?

Amirani

This is one of the most laughable threads on After Hours in quite a while despite the subject matter.

My life is not structured around a warped Christian ideology like yours appears to be. Divorce is a natural conclusion to many marriages. To use the word suicide to describe this process is incorrect and insulting.

kylith

vronki wrote: »

Does abortion and euthanasia value human life? No it treats it as a burden, garbage. So don't be surprised if young people treat their own life this way. That's how it's related.

In other words, Being liberal about killing in whatever form is not going to give a good example to our youth. It's a contradiction.

Come back to me when you have watched someone you love die slowly and in agony, over the course of weeks, and then tell me that euthanasia doesn't value human life. I would consider myself the worst monster on the planet if I let my dog go through the death I had to watch my grandmother endure.

As for abortion, it places the value of life on the person already living and able to express an opinion about what they want. To force a woman to be a, a ****ing brood mare, and force her to carry and deliver a child she does not want is the exact meaning of placing no value on human life.

Mazeire

Vladimir Kurtains wrote: »

What is this "feminising" of men that's meant to be happening?

I have asked the OP this and he has not responded. As he posted it response to an article I posted which discussed the association of suicide in young men and the fact that they find it difficult to open up or speak about any issues that they may be experiencing, I'm presuming the OP means that my talking about their issues this turns men in to "pansy's". As you do.
But I would like the OP to clarify.

vronki

NiallSparky wrote: »

This is one of the most laughable threads on After Hours in quite a while despite the subject matter.

My life is not structured around a warped Christian ideology like yours appears to be. Divorce is a natural conclusion to many marriages. To use the word suicide to describe this process is incorrect and insulting.

Most marriages are in Christian churches, so I'm afraid they are a lot more than that. And divorce is not natural, it's not supposed to happen - hence marriage vows.

My name is URL

vronki wrote: »

Most marriages are in Christian churches, so I'm afraid they are a lot more than that. And divorce is not natural, it's not supposed to happen - hence marriage vows.

You have to be on a wind up

o1s1n

Vladimir Kurtains wrote: »

What is this "feminising" of men that's meant to be happening?

I think the OP doesn't like when men cry or show their emotions. They need to be bastions of the family unit and Christianity didn't you know? No room for tears there.

Once men start crying, the divorces begin - as what women wants a feminised man?

Before you know it, children are being aborted left right and centre, teens and young men are killing themselves, everyone euthanizes their parents for a quick way to their inheritance...it's shocking Joe!

Legs.Eleven

What the......

kylith

vronki wrote: »

Most marriages are in Christian churches, so I'm afraid they are a lot more than that. And divorce is not natural, it's not supposed to happen - hence marriage vows.

I disagree. The majority of animals do not pair for life, but 'divorce' after each breeding season. Therefore lifelong monogamy is unnatural.

vronki

Mazeire wrote: »

I have asked the OP this and he has not responded. As he posted it response to an article I posted which discussed the association of suicide in young men and the fact that they find it difficult to open up or speak about any issues that they may be experiencing, I'm presuming the OP means that my talking about their issues this turns men in to "pansy's". As you do.
But I would like the OP to clarify.

If you're blind to the masculine hating culture we've been harvesting in the west for the last 20 years, that's not my fault. Before the suicide rates in Ireland, men weren't open much at all. So it's not the cause, but an attempt to solve the problem. And as a result making men even more like women. To deny men of their masculinity is unjust, since you're messing with their identity.

Tiddlypeeps

vronki wrote: »

Spiritually, yes. If that claimed meta-physical is a reality, that indeed one person is created, then divorce is a murder of that one person.

I don't think most people even hold this view, it took me like 3 pages of posts to figure out this is what you actually meant. So I would find it very strange if that is even a factor in the increase in suicide rates.

vronki wrote: »

You misunderstood my point. I am not saying divorce rates cause literal suicide with those who have actually divorced. That's a ridiculous idea. I am saying that high divorce rates is a form of high suicide rate. And so this generation mimicks the former.

Please don't twist my words around again, thanks.

I never suggested that you were claiming that divorce causes the divorced to commit suicide. Even if you are just talking about divorce in society being prevalent influencing people enough to commit suicide then you need to provide evidence of that if you want anybody to take you seriously.

The same with the abortion and the euthanasia argument. If you want anybody to take you seriously you need to provide actual evidence instead of justs statements of 'isn't it obvious' and 'it's no wonder'.

If you don't' provide evidence of this then your arguments are just going to be seen as ravings of a religious nut using suicide to push their agenda. (NOTE: I am not saying you are these things, you may not even be religious, but that's what you come across as).