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Bicycle marathons reduce suicide rates.

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  • 22-04-2013 11:08am
    #1
    vronki
    Registered Users Posts: 50 ✭✭


    How long is this country going to deny that all these charitable 'awareness' events do nothing (as statistics show) to reduce suicide? Surely the country needs to examine the real reasons behind such violence.

    If the youth are being told that their life is precious and to talk to someone when they are suicidal, and then on the other hand being told that eliminating human life either in the womb or at old age is acceptable, then no strategy is going to work. They both contradict one another. Either all human life is precious or it isn't.

    So Irish celebrities (many who are liberal about ending life) are going to cycle across Ireland now, feeling good about themselves. 'Raising awareness'.

    In the case of Ireland, one can ask when suicide became a problem. Does it have something to do with high divorce rates? Most marriages are in Christian churches, which declare that one person is created at marriage, so divorce is the murder or suicide of that one person. So don't be surprised if the following generation mimick just that.


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    #2
    super_furry
    Registered Users Posts: 27,321 ✭✭✭✭super_furry


    And yet because of them here you are on an internet forum talking about the suicide problem in this country. Because of them, RTE covered and spoke about the rising suicide problem in this country.

    Talking about and acknowledging our problem is the first step in helping people who need help.


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    #3
    vronki
    Registered Users Posts: 50 ✭✭vronki


    super_furry wrote: »
    And yet because of them here you are on an internet forum talking about the suicide problem in this country. Because of them, RTE covered and spoke about the rising suicide problem in this country.

    Talking about and acknowledging our problem is the first step in helping people who need help.

    It doesn't work, does it? We've been talking and acknowledging for years and it's still happening. Cut the bull****. It is our liberal-death-views which encourage suicide rates, not 'not talkiing about feelings' since men long ago never did and they weren't offing themselves in huge numbers every year. Though I'm sure feminizing men is what women would love, to give them an advantage. Since they're always going to be the stronger she.


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    #4
    Sulla Felix
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,442 ✭✭✭Sulla Felix


    Are they making you cycle across Ireland too? If not, what exactly is the problem with it, they can do what the fúck they like, for whatever reason they like, surely.


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    #5
    super_furry
    Registered Users Posts: 27,321 ✭✭✭✭super_furry


    You're here talking about it. It clearly does. Unfortunately you seem to be using this event to further some daft catholic agenda.


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    #6
    SEPT 23 1989
    Registered Users Posts: 43,024 ✭✭✭✭SEPT 23 1989


    A bit heavy for a Monday morning


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    #7
    vronki
    Registered Users Posts: 50 ✭✭vronki


    Sulla Felix wrote: »
    Are they making you cycle across Ireland too? If not, what exactly is the problem with it, they can do what the fúck they like, for whatever reason they like, surely.

    What a ridiculous thing to say. And totally missing my point.


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    #8
    vronki
    Registered Users Posts: 50 ✭✭vronki


    super_furry wrote: »
    You're here talking about it. It clearly does. Unfortunately you seem to be using this event to further some daft catholic agenda.

    Criticizing divorce isn't a catholic agenda, you don' have to be Catholic to value marriage.

    Anyway, it's not as if people want to admit that it is divorce that's causing this, or at least encourages it.


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    #9
    kneemos
    Registered Users Posts: 20,409 ✭✭✭✭kneemos


    I think there's a theory that people didn't kill themselves years ago because of the church teachings on suicide,anyone of an older generation will be well aware of the fear that was beaten into us as youngsters.


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    #10
    vronki
    Registered Users Posts: 50 ✭✭vronki


    kneemos wrote: »
    I think there's a theory that people didn't kill themselves years ago because of the church teachings on suicide,anyone of an older generation will be well aware of the fear that was beaten into us as youngsters.

    Divorce is suicide though. In the Christianized west which has Christian theology at the roots of its culture, high divorce rates and high suicide rates correlate.


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    #11
    Mazeire
    Closed Accounts Posts: 453 ✭✭Mazeire


    Events such as marathons are to raise awareness and funding for organisations that can help and support those affected by whatever issue they choose to address. Not to stop anything. I think it may be you who is missing the point OP.


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    #12
    kylith
    Registered Users Posts: 17,736 ✭✭✭✭kylith


    The awareness raising is probably more use than the OP thinks. After all, it's impossible to collect statistics on people who were thinking about committing suicide but didn't.


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    #13
    super_furry
    Registered Users Posts: 27,321 ✭✭✭✭super_furry


    vronki wrote: »
    Divorce is suicide though. In the Christianized west which has Christian theology at the roots of its culture, high divorce rates and high suicide rates correlate.

    Correlation does not imply causation. You're talking out of your arse.

    "Divorce is suicide" is the single most stupid three word statement I've read here.


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    #14
    Play To Kill
    Closed Accounts Posts: 485 ✭✭Play To Kill


    vronki wrote: »
    Anyway, it's not as if people want to admit that it is divorce that's causing this, or at least encourages it.

    I'm divorced, I'm also a man, when will divorce make me feel like committing suicide? Should I be worried?


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    #15
    vronki
    Registered Users Posts: 50 ✭✭vronki


    Mazeire wrote: »
    Events such as marathons are to raise awareness and funding for organisations that can help and support those affected by whatever issue they choose to address. Not to stop anything. I think it may be you who is missing the point OP.

    These events aren't doing anything to reduce rates. They are just self-satisfying facades erected by people to make themselves feel better, because they contribute and encourage death in other forms. Driven by a guilty conscience.


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    #16
    Mazeire
    Closed Accounts Posts: 453 ✭✭Mazeire


    vronki wrote: »
    Divorce is suicide though. In the Christianized west which has Christian theology at the roots of its culture, high divorce rates and high suicide rates correlate.

    A divorce is merely the end result of an extremely long and painful process of fights emotional distress psychological pain and stress for two people and their family. Do you not think it's those factors that contribute to any supposed link between suicide and divorce rather than the divorce itself which is just a legal formality.


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    #17
    super_furry
    Registered Users Posts: 27,321 ✭✭✭✭super_furry


    http://xkcd.com/552/


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    #18
    vronki
    Registered Users Posts: 50 ✭✭vronki


    Play To Kill wrote: »
    I'm divorced, I'm also a man, when will divorce make me feel like committing suicide? Should I be worried?

    That's not what I meant at all. Stop playing dumb. I was positing that the generation which follows from a generation that commit suicide in a different way, will go on to commit suicide in a different way, also.


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    #19
    Mazeire
    Closed Accounts Posts: 453 ✭✭Mazeire


    vronki wrote: »
    These events aren't doing anything to reduce rates. They are just self-satisfying facades erected by people to make themselves feel better, because they contribute and encourage death in other forms. Driven by a guilty conscience.

    Read what I said. To raise awareness and to raise funding for support and help not to stop anything. Are you going to be one of those OP's who deliberately decide just to warp what anyone is saying to then to support their own agenda then?


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    #20
    vronki
    Registered Users Posts: 50 ✭✭vronki


    Mazeire wrote: »
    A divorce is merely the end result of an extremely long and painful process of fights emotional distress psychological pain and stress for two people and their family. Do you not think it's those factors that contribute to any supposed link between suicide and divorce rather than the divorce itself which is just a legal formality.

    Legal formality? People get married in churches so it seems to be a lot more than that. Look, there is probably a number of divorced people here who will feel condemned by this. So predictable they will fight tooth and nail to defend themselves. That's expected.

    We should be mindful of the real causes for this, and not fluff it up as 'men not talking'. Since men for most of human civilization weren't talking. It's men being men.


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    #21
    crusher000
    Registered Users Posts: 649 ✭✭✭crusher000


    vronki wrote: »
    That's not what I meant at all. Stop playing dumb. I was positing that the generation which follows from a generation that commit suicide in a different way, will go on to commit suicide in a different way, also.


    Fair play you have it all figured out. This is going to go around and around. I'm dizzy all ready.


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    #22
    Mazeire
    Closed Accounts Posts: 453 ✭✭Mazeire


    Here you go OP have a read of this. Men being men indeed....

    http://www.independent.ie/unsorted/features/men-who-fear-disclosure-more-than-death-26306007.html


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    #23
    vronki
    Registered Users Posts: 50 ✭✭vronki


    Mazeire wrote: »
    Here you go OP have a read of this. Men being men indeed....

    http://www.independent.ie/unsorted/features/men-who-fear-disclosure-more-than-death-26306007.html

    You can put your faith in Harry Ferguson if you like. Feminizing men is not a solution to our suicide rates.

    Also, it is pointless not to have a real strategy in dealing with suicide rates. Otherwise, it will just continue like it has.


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    #24
    Tiddlypeeps
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,103 ✭✭✭Tiddlypeeps


    vronki wrote: »
    Criticizing divorce isn't a catholic agenda, you don' have to be Catholic to value marriage.

    Anyway, it's not as if people want to admit that it is divorce that's causing this, or at least encourages it.

    If you want to claim that divorce, abortion and euthanasia are causing people to commit suicide then you need to provide some evidence for that if you want anybody to take you seriously. 'It just makes sense' or 'I feel it to be true' are not good enough.
    vronki wrote: »
    Divorce is suicide though. In the Christianized west which has Christian theology at the roots of its culture, high divorce rates and high suicide rates correlate.

    Correlation does not imply causation. It is perfectly feasible that a person can leave their partner because they are unhappy and then go on to commit suicide because they are still unhappy. It does not follow that one has to cause the other.

    I can just as easily say the reason for the increase in suicide rates are electrical signals seeping into peoples brains and messing things up. Radio and wireless technology has increased massively over the last few decades so the correlation is there.


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    #25
    Mazeire
    Closed Accounts Posts: 453 ✭✭Mazeire


    vronki wrote: »
    Legal formality? People get married in churches so it seems to be a lot more than that.
    n.

    No actually they don't. Ever heard of registry offices? Civil unions? Or does the pain caused by one of those unions failing invalid or irrelevant to you because the ceremony didn't take place in the requisite venue? Also if someone one did get married on a church you say it is not a legally binding relationship what is it in your opinion?


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    #26
    super_furry
    Registered Users Posts: 27,321 ✭✭✭✭super_furry


    vronki wrote: »
    We should be mindful of the real causes for this

    Show me a single grain of proof for your daft claims that "divorce is suicide".


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    #27
    vronki
    Registered Users Posts: 50 ✭✭vronki


    Tiddlypeeps wrote: »
    Correlation does not imply causation. It is perfectly feasible that a person can leave their partner because they are unhappy and then go on to commit suicide because they are still unhappy. It does not follow that one has to cause the other.

    You misunderstood my point. I am not saying divorce rates cause literal suicide with those who have actually divorced. That's a ridiculous idea. I am saying that high divorce rates is a form of high suicide rate. And so this generation mimicks the former.

    Please don't twist my words around again, thanks.


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    #28
    Mazeire
    Closed Accounts Posts: 453 ✭✭Mazeire


    vronki wrote: »
    You can put your faith in Harry Ferguson if you like. Feminizing men is not a solution to our suicide rates.

    Also, it is pointless not to have a real strategy in dealing with suicide rates. Otherwise, it will just continue like it has.

    "Feminising men": explain what you mean by this term in the context of this topic please.

    A real strategy when dealing with suicide rates": What are your suggestions?


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    #29
    VinLieger
    Registered Users Posts: 17,654 ✭✭✭✭VinLieger


    What is the op trying to say? Also im confused how they managed to bring in euthanasia and abortion in as causes of suicide?


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    #30
    vronki
    Registered Users Posts: 50 ✭✭vronki


    super_furry wrote: »
    Show me a single grain of proof for your daft claims that "divorce is suicide".

    The west is built on Christian theology, whether you like it or not. In Christian theology, divorce is an actual real suicide - of the one person/flesh created at marriage. So divorce is the murder of this one person, it's a suicide.

    In a society in which 50% or so of people commit suicide in the form of divorce, is it any wonder that we have high suicide rates?

    Like I said before nobody is going to want to accept this, but that isn't a good enough reason to sweep it aside.

    This is our problem, created by us.


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    #31
    super_furry
    Registered Users Posts: 27,321 ✭✭✭✭super_furry


    VinLieger wrote: »
    What is the op trying to say? Also im confused how they managed to bring in euthanasia and abortion in as causes of suicide?

    He/she is saying that legalisation of divorce has led to an increase in suicide and that a public discussion on abortion has done the same. They've also started wibbling on about "feminising men".

    Smacks of the daft ramblings of an Iona institute inductee.


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