Milk Price- Please read Mod note in post #1

Farmer Ed

kowtow wrote: »

I'm sceptical that co-op savings would make that much difference to milk price but those kind of "because I'm worth it" salaries do tend to exemplify a particular way of working.

Few CEO's paying themselves at that level like to do their own typing, make their own coffee, etc. etc. and on down the chain.

We often looked for high CEO pay when selecting takeover / merger targets, for two reasons - (1) overly high board remuneration is very often an indicator that there is plenty of duplication and fat to strip away in the rest of the target for instant "cost savings" to pay the deal fees and (2) it's often easier to persuade a highly paid CEO to champion a deal because money is clearly a motivating factor.

It's not always the case, but it's a good way to bet.

And all the most up to date research would back up a lot of the points you have correctly identified. I'm the link below should be compulsory reading for company directors and advisers to remuneration committees.

http://www.forbes.com/sites/susanadams/2014/06/16/the-highest-paid-ceos-are-the-worst-performers-new-study-says/#6b9fb57a293a

alps

whelan2 wrote: »

Had a look at my milk statement from April 2015 , I am down nearly 8k in my cheque this year :eek:

Same here Whelan. ..but you probably had a big lash if milk just after April 1st....

We're back just 5.6c/l , which is not completly head wrecking, but will increase as solids do during the year.

kowtow

coolshannagh28 wrote: »

milking 20 Jersey cows with a part time job, is this rational ?

I suppose the advantage with Jerseys is he could take any off-colour ones to work with him, pop them in the glove compartment, and hop out for a smoke to check on them?

Buford T. Justice XIX

Farmer Ed wrote: »

Again the €500k is just the tip of the iceberg. When that ceo gets so comfortable in his own skin that he can be assured of even bigger bonus if he goes and squanders hundreds of millions of farmers money and he leads farmers in to a financial ambush. The I'm afraid your figure will increase. If general Custard was an Irish ceo. He probably would get a nice bonus for leading his troops in to the battle of little big horn.

Custer.
George Armstrong Custer.

https://www.google.ie/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=11&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0ahUKEwiixMP54uXMAhVjAsAKHQHTDfAQ_B0IgwEwCg&url=%2Fimgres%3Fimgurl%3Dhttps%3A%2F%2Fupload.wikimedia.org%2Fwikipedia%2Fcommons%2F1%2F16%2FCuster_Bvt_MG_Geo_A_1865_LC-BH831-365-crop.jpg%26imgrefurl%3Dhttps%3A%2F%2Fen.wikipedia.org%2Fwiki%2FGeorge_Armstrong_Custer%26h%3D1846%26w%3D1476%26tbnid%3DN3_TvVkMSx330M%3A%26tbnh%3D186%26tbnw%3D148%26docid%3D78uWmzDGYIUoEM%26itg%3D1%26client%3Dfirefox-b%26usg%3D__ILckywWMzVBLScj5imZWSSpqKmY%3D&usg=AFQjCNF5yuVxRUtAXylbOwC7tP-CYP-rRg&sig2=SksVejpqqPX__idrCPZL5A&bvm=bv.122448493,d.ZGg

Farmer Ed

browned wrote: »

So you can't produce any figure on potential savings. Fair enough I'll move on, no point on bogging down a thread with fairytales

Speaking of faiytales.

Once there was a farmer who had magic cows and he sold his milk to a good fairy. The Less the cow's Milked and the less the good fairy paid him for kgs of milk solids.The milk became even more magic and the farmer made even more money.




Yes I think better move on.

kowtow

Dawg - US COP figures at:

http://www.ers.usda.gov/data-products/milk-cost-of-production-estimates.aspx

My calcs were in the back of my head so I may well have missed something, part of them (all national averages) are below. Interesting that they include a cost for lube. Do they supply Glanbia as well?

US $ / cwt sold. all farms q1 2016 (?)

Operating costs:
Feed--
Purchased feed 5.37 5.96 5.90
Homegrown harvested feed 4.78 4.67 4.64
Grazed feed 0.12 0.12 0.12
Total, feed costs 10.27 10.75 10.65
Veterinary and medicine 0.84 0.82 0.81
Bedding and litter 0.24 0.23 0.23
Marketing 0.26 0.26 0.26
Custom services 0.58 0.57 0.56
Fuel, lube, and electricity 0.40 0.37 0.40
Repairs 0.56 0.55 0.54
Other operating costs 0.00 0.00 0.00
Interest on operating capital 0.01 0.01 0.01
Total operating costs 13.15 13.55 13.45

Allocated overhead:
Hired labor 1.62 1.59 1.56
Opportunity cost of unpaid labor 2.43 2.39 2.35
Capital recovery of machinery and equipment 3.85 3.72 3.65
Opportunity cost of land (rental rate) 0.02 0.02 0.02
Taxes and insurance 0.21 0.20 0.19
General farm overhead 0.66 0.65 0.64
Total, allocated overhead 8.79 8.56 8.41

Total costs listed 21.95 22.12 21.86

Farmer Ed

Buford T. Justice V wrote: »

Custer.
George Armstrong Custer.

https://www.google.ie/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=11&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0ahUKEwiixMP54uXMAhVjAsAKHQHTDfAQ_B0IgwEwCg&url=%2Fimgres%3Fimgurl%3Dhttps%3A%2F%2Fupload.wikimedia.org%2Fwikipedia%2Fcommons%2F1%2F16%2FCuster_Bvt_MG_Geo_A_1865_LC-BH831-365-crop.jpg%26imgrefurl%3Dhttps%3A%2F%2Fen.wikipedia.org%2Fwiki%2FGeorge_Armstrong_Custer%26h%3D1846%26w%3D1476%26tbnid%3DN3_TvVkMSx330M%3A%26tbnh%3D186%26tbnw%3D148%26docid%3D78uWmzDGYIUoEM%26itg%3D1%26client%3Dfirefox-b%26usg%3D__ILckywWMzVBLScj5imZWSSpqKmY%3D&usg=AFQjCNF5yuVxRUtAXylbOwC7tP-CYP-rRg&sig2=SksVejpqqPX__idrCPZL5A&bvm=bv.122448493,d.ZGg

Dam, Thanks for that now it is all making sence to me. I could never figer out why the Indians didn't eat him.

browned

Farmer Ed wrote: »

Speaking of faiytales.

Once there was a farmer who had magic cows and he sold his milk to a good fairy. The Less the cow's Milked and the less the good fairy paid him for kgs of milk solids.The milk became even more magic and the farmer made even more money.




Yes I think better move on.

Seriously can you back up anything you say with figures. Where are all the saving to be found. The price of milk is now 23cent. You say we should be getting 63 cent. Tell us where the missing 40cent is

browned

kowtow wrote: »

Dawg - US COP figures at:

http://www.ers.usda.gov/data-products/milk-cost-of-production-estimates.aspx

My calcs were in the back of my head so I may well have missed something, part of them (all national averages) are below. Interesting that they include a cost for lube. Do they supply Glanbia as well?

22 cent/litre costs are frightening when they're considered to be 28c/l here.

kowtow

browned wrote: »

22 cent/litre costs are frightening when they're considered to be 28c/l here.

Sorry, should have put it in the post - those costs are $/cwt sold.

I worked it out at a range of 28-38c EUR / kg yesterday, smaller the farm more expensive roughly speaking, as per my original post.

The size breakdown datasets are from 2015, the one above is the national all farm dataset and is the first 3 months of this year I think.

I didn't look too closely at the figures so may well have missed something significant, a lot on away from the desk at the moment.

Farmer Ed

browned wrote: »

Seriously can you back up anything you say with figures. Where are all the saving to be found. The price of milk is now 23cent. You say we should be getting 63 cent. Tell us where the missing 40cent is

First of all you misquoted me. What I did was simply point out is that at £1 a gallon in 1989 is the equivalent of 63c per litre in today's money. It's not difficult to do the calculation if you feel up to doing it yourself.

I also supplied you with a report on the most up to date research on the best practice in paying company executives and the detrimental effect getting it wrong can have on a company.

Now if you want to get in to an argument that I can't prove the light turns of in the fridge when the door closes? Maybe it's time we agree to disagree on this one.

Please don't let me disturb you from your fiddle playing as the industry burns.

browned

Farmer Ed wrote: »

First of all you misquoted me. What I did was simply point out is that at £1 a gallon in 1989 is the equivalent of 63c per litre in today's money. It's not difficult to do the calculation if you feel up to doing it yourself.

I also supplied you with a report on the most up to date research on the best practice in paying company executives and the detrimental effect getting it wrong can have on a company.

Now if you want to get in to an argument that I can't prove the light turns of in the fridge when the door closes? Maybe it's time we agree to disagree on this one.

Please don't let me disturb you from your fiddle playing as the industry burns.

You've mistaken my musical instrument ed. Its not a fiddle but the world's smallest violin.

Water John

I think the all the levies and over pay of management would not make a massive diif to the cheque each month, but is more symptomatic of how everyone is sucking off the farmer.
The sad part in some cases its done by fellow farmers on quangos and farmers as directors allowing it happen.

The overall savage trend is the problem.
The diff between the price paid to the primary producer of all farm products and the price the consumer ultimately pays have been diverging over the last 20/30 years.

The downturn in this cycle is best explempified by the figures from DG 2015 Accounts. Rise of 185M litres in supply. Return to farmers down €61M.

Maybe indeed all milk producers in Ireland should go the the 'Browned' route.

browned

bf 4.42
pr 3.70
scc 235
base 23.79
coop av 25.66
price 32.79

Milked out

browned wrote: »

bf 4.42
pr 3.70
scc 235
base 23.79
coop av 25.66
price 32.79

Fixed price schemes included?

browned

Milked out wrote: »

Fixed price schemes included?

not sure with the coop averages but theyre included in my price

caseman

browned wrote: »

bf 4.42
pr 3.70
scc 235
base 23.79
coop av 25.66
price 32.79

Would you have 500 euro left after common costs not many cows doing that this year.
As the year moves ón the price gap will probaly get bigger with your higher solids.

Milked out

browned wrote: »

Milked out wrote: »

Fixed price schemes included?

not sure with the coop averages but theyre included in my price

What price did the portion of your milk not in fixed price get? If your statement breaks it down that way? Seeing as I'll be looking at the bare 22c for April I can say I'm a small bit jealous......

mf240

browned wrote: »

bf 4.42
pr 3.70
scc 235
base 23.79
coop av 25.66
price 32.79

At 16 litres that works out the same as 22 litres at base price.

mahoney_j

Just looked at April 14v April 15 v April 16 price and makes for depressing viewing .only upside for me is more milk been produced and at higher solids (slightly )wrote a few cheques to clear vet account ,for boluses ,tractor service as well as clearing a chunk of trading account with coop and bill with feed merchant .also once my annual loans kick in this month my full April cheque and more are gone with no wage left for myself .this is deliberate on my behalf as deals were done for prompt payement and leaving things more manageable for summer .feed bill be getting smaller and no big first cut silage to pay for .
A lot say there's nothing out of cattle but I for one am damn glad to have them in a year like this .offfloaded fr Bulls and Herefords in Feb ,fr breeding Bulls over last month and whilst prices in marts strong I've some Hereford and Belgian blue heifers to shift next Tuesday

patsy_mccabe

8000 posts now. Make that 8001.

browned

Milked out wrote: »

What price did the portion of your milk not in fixed price get? If your statement breaks it down that way? Seeing as I'll be looking at the bare 22c for April I can say I'm a small bit jealous......

never actually though of working out the price for each of the price bands
non fixed is making 28.28
first scheme is making 37.86
last fixed scheme is making 35.08

blackdog1

mahoney_j wrote:

Just looked at April 14v April 15 v April 16 price and makes for depressing viewing .only upside for me is more milk been produced and at higher solids (slightly )wrote a few cheques to clear vet account ,for boluses ,tractor service as well as clearing a chunk of trading account with coop and bill with feed merchant .also once my annual loans kick in this month my full April cheque and more are gone with no wage left for myself .this is deliberate on my behalf as deals were done for prompt payement and leaving things more manageable for summer .feed bill be getting smaller and no big first cut silage to pay for . A lot say there's nothing out of cattle but I for one am damn glad to have them in a year like this .offfloaded fr Bulls and Herefords in Feb ,fr breeding Bulls over last month and whilst prices in marts strong I've some Hereford and Belgian blue heifers to shift next Tuesday

I'm in the same boat. If it wasn't for stock sales I couldn't clear my bills. Sold 6 bulling heifers and a few coloured cattle for good money. Have 30 heifers coming in next year so I'll cull about 15 cows. I must say when things are tight culling cows with problems isn't half the struggle even if they classified ex in the past. Any animal that isn't profitable is gone. Also helps that I'm calving in 2 blocks so I'm not holding onto any trouble cow for longer than 5 months as I've fresh calvers coming in every 5-6 months.

Dawggone

Don't take me up wrong on this! But selling stock to pay bills/wages is actually a great sign of changes down the line...
The first reaction to falling prices is to increase production...the second is to sell stock...less stock = less milk!

blackdog1

Dawggone wrote:

Don't take me up wrong on this! But selling stock to pay bills/wages is actually a great sign of changes down the line... The first reaction to falling prices is to increase production...the second is to sell stock...less stock = less milk!

Don't get too excited Dawg I'm just selling surplus stock that I sell every year haven't reduced numbers yet and doubt I will. I'm at 90 cows and that's as high as I can go without renting more land.I can see your point but don't think it will happen big time till the spring boys dry off and have no cheque for 2 months. A few winter lads might start before hand but I recon in November cull cow prices won't be great at all.

RightTurnClyde

Dawggone wrote: »

Don't take me up wrong on this! But selling stock to pay bills/wages is actually a great sign of changes down the line...
The first reaction to falling prices is to increase production...the second is to sell stock...less stock = less milk!

AI man commented that there's a massive drop in sales to either beef AI or beef stock bull...so rock on 2019

freedominacup

RightTurnClyde wrote: »

AI man commented that there's a massive drop in sales to either beef AI or beef stock bull...so rock on 2019

Do any of these boys have a long term plan at all? Unless you have very deep pockets the lead time on dairy expansion is years. It can all be undone in a couple of weeks but uphill is hard and slow work.

mahoney_j

RightTurnClyde wrote: »

AI man commented that there's a massive drop in sales to either beef AI or beef stock bull...so rock on 2019

Giddy up I smell scarce 2 k + euro heifers .ill have lots .96% bulled today day 27! And not one beef straw user

whelan2

http://www.agriland.ie/farming-news/department-looking-into-provision-of-e15000-liquidity-loans-for-dairy-farmers/

kevthegaff

mahoney_j wrote: »

Giddy up I smell scarce 2 k + euro heifers .ill have lots .96% bulled today day 27! And not one beef straw user

U wouldn't know jerry could be an exodus from dairying, who's going to pay that money with milk in the early 20s