Is there an Irish version of 3 strikes and Out ?

AlekSmart

I somewhat lazily scanned across the accounts of the "Grafton Street Stabbings" earlier this week.

Nothing much to see here,just another normal end to a Night-Out in Dublin,or so I was prepared to accept...

http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/manhunt-after-two-men-stabbed-and-woman-assaulted-in-grafton-street-crime-spree-29199913.html

Hard luck on the poor victims I thought,but hey,these attacks are actually quite rare etc etc....needed to reassure myself and not fall into that moany old rightwinger stereotype...;)

Then,by chance I clicked-on a bit......Good Work by the Gardai thought I,as I read of an arrest and court appearance...

http://www.breakingnews.ie/ireland/man-accused-of-grafton-street-stabbing-faces-court-591575.html

I did emit a little Hmmmm as I read this however...

His lawyers asked the judge to order a urine analysis test, telling the Court, "it may be very, very important to our defence."

Another Hmmm,this time somewhat more drawn out...whats this all about then...the urine made me do it..?..but,it's always good to have your Lawyers onside,and of course the accused is entitled to the best possible defence..Yes ?

My curiosity,by now is stimulated and finally somewhat allieviated by the good ol Tabloids...

http://www.thestar.ie/star/knife-nuts-stab-two-men-in-late-night-muggings/

Innocent Indian national Harikash Rjaysur (31) was stabbed in the chest while Killian Byrne (35) from Goatstown, Dublin was stabbed in the back and side in muggings.

Mr Byrne’s girlfriend, Karolina Dryzaite (22), was beaten around the head during the knife-point attacks.

The victims were left lying in pools of their own blood in the normally-safe Grafton Street shopping area of Dublin city shortly after 1am yesterday.

They demanded cash and their phones and then they stabbed Karolina’s boyfriend and punched her a number of times in the head.

Moments before the attack on Killian and Karolina, the thug and his accomplice were also suspected of stabbing Harsikash outside Foot Locker on Grafton Street while attempting to steal his phone and cash.

Holy Shytt...that was some nasty series of attacks...coulda very easily been three dead bodies,but at least the perpetrators are in custody and won't be able to target my children,or anybody elses innocent family members out for a night in Dublin City Centre...

However...it's equally nice to see our national ability to elevate ourselves beyond the negativity still exists....

http://www.irishexaminer.com/breakingnews/ireland/man-accused-of-grafton-street-stabbing-faces-court-591575.html

Wxxxxx made no application for bail today, and will appear again in court next week.

Phew...and here was I worrying that these individuals might be denied their right to Bail...It looks like their "Lawyers" will address that awfulness in due course.

Further light reading brought this...from 2011...

http://www.herald.ie/news/out-of-control-most-dangerous-man-in-our-jails-27981580.html

Wxxxx has amassed 169 serious breaches of discipline since he first entered the Irish prison system in October, 2005.

Mind you,unless my sums are awry...

Sources say that Wxxxx -- who was jailed for 10 years in March, 2007, for a litany of violent crimes, including robbery, hijacking, assault and threatening to kill gardai -- is a "ticking time bomb who is capable of anything.

A 10 year jail sentence imposed in March 2007 sees us safe up to....March 2017..Yea ?......No Ted..not here it does'nt....:rolleyes:


A little rewind to 2007,brought me to here.....

http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/outofcontrol-teen-jailed-for-catalogue-of-crimes-26269880.html

Now,this last article merits a full reading,as it is just overflowing with "Issues" relating to just how much largesse our State can be expected to show offenders whilst pretty much leaving the law-abiding folks to sort themselves out...:(

Now,I'm fully aware of Bunreacht na hEireann's various protections for the rights of Irish Citizens...I'm equally aware of how our Constitution strives to portray us as all "Equal before God" etc etc...however I'm kinda stumped trying to figure out how Mr DeValera's document can be used to "Guide" our Judiciary in situations such as what we can expect to read of in the coming weeks ?

Has anybody got any suggestions as to how to address developing situations such as these

ScumLord

We call it rounders.

Praetorian Saighdiuir

Iv played 3 and in alright.

FGR

The Irish Justice System - a revolving door that emphasises a constant burden on the victim whilst ensuring every possible opportunity for the culprit to walk free without paying for his deeds.

Bertie Proposed the three strike system. Probably didn't bother with it when he realised that we'd need a proper, larger prison system and a judiciary who would be willing to play ball.

BillyMitchel

Yeah. Michael Barrymore used to host it

crockholm

a zero or two after the 3 sounds closer to the mark

shruikan2553

Sure we cant punish people for coming from a bad background!

People who commit violent acts, especially unprovoked should be in prison for ATLEAST 10-15 years and even more for stabbings, muggings etc. No bail, no getting out early on good behavior, just long prison sentence followed by monitoring

TheBza

id love if they brought in the death penalty here.

Richard Hillman

The defence no doubt will be

1) Was drunk or on drugs
2) Troubled family background
3) Has enrolled in some sort of educational course
4) "Derz no faciliteeeees"

EuropeanSon

Yeah, because that law really helps reduce violent crime in the US... :rolleyes:

Death and Taxes

I'm lost here, when was the guy convicted?

Senna

Richard Hillman wrote: »

The defence no doubt will be

1) Was drunk or on drugs
2) Troubled family background
3) Has enrolled in some sort of educational course
4) "Derz no faciliteeeees"

The defence are right to bring up these issues, its the judges/courts that shouldn't fall for this bullshít.

Death and Taxes

Richard Hillman wrote: »

The defence no doubt will be

1) Was drunk or on drugs
2) Troubled family background
3) Has enrolled in some sort of educational course
4) "Derz no faciliteeeees"

That would be the same defence the 4 little rich boys used in the Annabells case would it?

Gorilla Rising

Yes. It's called 120 strikes and you're out.

dd972

Sounds like a Derek Mooney quiz show, was trying to make up a skit on the 'Out' word but I'm not creative enough humour wise

dd972

WileyCoyote wrote: »

That would be the same defence the 4 little rich boys used in the Annabells case would it?

Do you mean that case where the Indo pored over the 'lost futures and prospects' of those young gentlemen who erred in their judgement....

tayto lover

Drop him into Mountjoy from one of the garda helicopters from 2,000 feet.

ColeTrain

The system failed these three people. Sickening to see animals like him roam the streets

AlekSmart

WileyCoyote wrote: »

I'm lost here, when was the guy convicted?

Oh I'm sure your Sat-Nav will lead you to a suitably safe location...;)

The latest attack,is of course a seperate occuence,as yet untried so best left alone,for fear of providing some basis for "gettin the accused off on a technicality".

As for actual convictions,I'm ok with this small selection from 2007....

http://www.herald.ie/news/out-of-control-most-dangerous-man-in-our-jails-27981580.html

He was only 18 when he was sentenced on those 25 charges and at that stage he had 44 previous convictions. In total Wright has 79 previous criminal convictions.

While this particular individual's case is currently under deliberation,it is only an examplar for the worsening situation in relation to violent recidivist criminals being facilitated by our Justice System to simply stroll back out and pick up where they left off.

I'm assuming a person convicted and thus under the care of the Irish Prison Service had full access to the range of Rehabilitative services within the system ?

Fair enough,if an individual convict is denied access to such services,but unless it can be proven that our Prison Service is doing that,then at what point do we have to ask ourselves about the sustainability of our current system ?

Are we expected to have a totally unlimited regard for the rights of serial criminals,whilst offering ourselves,repeatedly,up,as fodder to keep these people amused ?

Or is everything really OK after all.....and the Court Reports we increasingly read are all scaremongering hysteria..?

The Jury is out I suppose ....

AlekSmart

ColeTrain wrote: »

The system failed these three people. Sickening to see animals like him roam the streets

I happen to agree ColeTrain.

However,when such failures start occurring repeatedly and with ever worsening consequences,we not surprisingly see people questioning the operation and even the motives of that "System".

I know I certainly do.

That said,there is a well developed and active grouping who not only challenge that "System Failing the victim" viewpoint,but who turn it on it's head and instead suggest the System actually "fails the criminal" first,thus causing his/her criminality...this attitude,in an odd way, almost appears to blame the victims for not being supportive or recognisant of the situation in which such criminals find themselves.

It boils down in no small way to whether we cuddle thse folks and pat their heads,or whether we take a more robust view of their choice of behaviour ?

ColeTrain

AlekSmart wrote: »

I happen to agree ColeTrain.

However,when such failures start occurring repeatedly and with ever worsening consequences,we not surprisingly see people questioning the operation and even the motives of that "System".

I know I certainly do.

That said,there is a well developed and active grouping who not only challenge that "System Failing the victim" viewpoint,but who turn it on it's head and instead suggest the System actually "fails the criminal" first,thus causing his/her criminality...this attitude,in an odd way, almost appears to blame the victims for not being supportive or recognisant of the situation in which such criminals find themselves.

It boils down in no small way to whether we cuddle thse folks and pat their heads,or whether we take a more robust view of their choice of behaviour ?

Maybe a system whereby we have a special jail built for anyone who would dare to violently re offend. A place where flogging is for breakfast and there are no immenaties. It would make 'slopping out' look like something a royal family member would do.
Seriously, the above might be extreme but there has to be a serious deterrent put in place. These people don't give a damn about doing time in the current jails. We're only fooling ourselves to think that some members of our society can be reformed. The truth is there are some who will act like animals until their last day on earth, we should realise that they should be treated as such until it's beaten out of them and they actually fear going back to the dungeons of this special jail. Until that happens innocent people will suffer.

hmmn!letssee

the papers are great with getting accurate information,pity they didn't get the part about the second man having a wife and children...what a terrible time he and his "girlfriend" must be having.

ColeTrain

hmmn!letssee wrote: »

the papers are great with getting accurate information,pity they didn't get the part about the second man having a wife and children...what a terrible time he and his "girlfriend" must be having.

Did you open an account on boards to suggest that the accused is some sort of crusader against adultery?

twinQuins

ColeTrain wrote: »

Maybe a system whereby we have a special jail built for anyone who would dare to violently re offend. A place where flogging is for breakfast and there are no immenaties. It would make 'slopping out' look like something a royal family member would do. [...]

Oh sure, the countless times where even worse treatment was tried throughout history were just flukes.

This time it'll work. Right? Because it's not like there's anything ridiculously stupid about trying the same thing that's been shown to fail over and over.

Frank Black

The Irish equivalent is 'Do that again, and you're getting a shlap of the hurl'

SeanW

EuropeanSon wrote: »

Yeah, because that law really helps reduce violent crime in the US... :rolleyes:

You're right, we shouldn't crack down on scum. So when this latest prize gets out of jail again (may happen sooner than any of us expect) and knifes some other poor random bugger, we should just accept it as an inevitablity :rolleyes:

hmmn!letssee

ColeTrain wrote: »

Did you open an account on boards to suggest that the accused is some sort of crusader against adultery?

no i didn't...i just wanted to say my piece. thats all no offence meant.

SeanW

twinQuins wrote: »

This time it'll work. Right? Because it's not like there's anything ridiculously stupid about trying the same thing that's been shown to fail over and over.

I could say the same thing about the current approach ... you let someone go free when 100+ convictions often for violent offenses proves they cannot be trusted in civilised society, then wonder why they go and stab someone else ... That's really smart!

ColeTrain

twinQuins wrote: »

Oh sure, the countless times where even worse treatment was tried throughout history were just flukes.

This time it'll work. Right? Because it's not like there's anything ridiculously stupid about trying the same thing that's been shown to fail over and over.

Don't you think times are different now? It seems to me that prisoners have never had it softer. Between their environment and their sentencing. Even when they get our there are plenty of benefits and hand outs for them.
I'm not saying every prisoner should be treated like dirt but in special cases, for those who continually re offend with violent crime, would it really be that bad to make their environment tougher and to maybe, make them think of not wanting to go out and do the same thing again.

What's your solution btw?

ColeTrain

SeanW wrote: »

I could say the same thing about the current approach ... you let someone go free when 100+ convictions often for violent offenses proves they cannot be trusted in civilised society, then wonder why they go and stab someone else ... That's really smart!

Ah yeah but we have to be seen to be liberal by reforming the unreformable. F*** the innocent people that they will invariably hurt.

EuropeanSon

SeanW wrote: »

You're right, we shouldn't crack down on scum. So when this latest prize gets out of jail again (may happen sooner than any of us expect) and knifes some other poor random bugger, we should just accept it as an inevitablity :rolleyes:

Your proposal, then, is to copy one of the least successful and most expensive justice systems in the western world?
Wow, that's really clever. I wonder why nobody has decided to do that yet.