Bulling Heifers

quadboy · 12-04-2013 1:28pm #1

Hope to AI the heifers in early may so should I be watching them these days for signs of bulling because where they will be bulled has only a few acres and a yard with crush so don't want to be putting them in too late and having to wait 2 3 weeks for them to come bulling again as there wont be grass there for them.

Bizzum · 12-04-2013 10:26pm

quadboy wrote: »

Hope to AI the heifers in early may so should I be watching them these days for signs of bulling because where they will be bulled has only a few acres and a yard with crush so don't want to be putting them in too late and having to wait 2 3 weeks for them to come bulling again as there wont be grass there for them.

You should be watching and recording each heifer. Give yourself plenty of wriggle room and take repeats into account.
We're you goin to sync them or AI as they come around?

quadboy · 12-04-2013 11:50pm

What do you mean by sync them, last year we just stuck scratchcards on them and checked them in the morning and then ring the AI crowd.

Bizzum · 13-04-2013 12:03am

quadboy wrote: »

What do you mean by sync them, last year we just stuck scratchcards on them and checked them in the morning and then ring the AI crowd.

Heat synchronisation.

quadboy · 13-04-2013 12:44am

You mean get them all bulled in a short time space

delaval · 13-04-2013 4:00pm

2 ways to do it.
1. Day 1 and day 11 estrumate. Day 11 scratch cards or kmar and ai as bulling once a day.

2. Day 1 scratch card/kmar and ai as bulling. Day 7 estrumate remainder and ai as bulling

Option 1 takes 4-5 days
Option 2 takes 10-13 days

With each option you remove as ai'd taking pressure off your small area of ground.

This means that all your repeats should come at the same time so return them to this paddock at about 18 days after ai and scratch card and ai.

quadboy · 13-04-2013 5:32pm

Last year most of them bulled in a short space of time with rest going to the bull but no bull this year. Im just worried about putting them in to the field at the right time. never did the estrumate thing that makes them come bulling does it

sh1tstirrer · 13-04-2013 6:43pm

quadboy wrote: »

What do you mean by sync them, last year we just stuck scratchcards on them and checked them in the morning and then ring the AI crowd.

You should be checking them 3 times a day for 20 minutes each time. I check them at 7am 2pm and 9pm. The same when watching for repeats. I Ai for seven days then I estrumate the heifers that didn't come bulling they will be bulling in 3-4 days any that don't come bulling after that get a second injection. I have 100% heifers incalf using this method the last two years.

quadboy · 13-04-2013 6:51pm

Yeah I wont have much else to do so I can spend plenty of time watching them and the scratchcards are a great job as long as you know they havnt been scratched by briars and things, I hear the whole card must be completely scratched off. Should I put a new card on a heifer after shes bulled the first time, the cards are expensive like

sh1tstirrer · 13-04-2013 7:02pm

If you don't put in the effort you will end up with empty heifers. Did many of your heifers hold to ai last year. When you are depending on 100% ai you need to put in the effort.

quadboy · 13-04-2013 7:19pm

I think a good few of them did, we sold them after Christmas and will be doing the same with this lot so getting them in calf is number 1 priority. Still have them inside feeding them up iv been told they look great my a neighbour, last year we bulled them in late may but I was told the earlier the better

sh1tstirrer · 13-04-2013 7:23pm

Are they beef heifers for suckling?

quadboy · 13-04-2013 7:33pm

No their dairy

sh1tstirrer · 13-04-2013 7:41pm

Only buyers buying incalf dairy heifers before Christmas around here were exporters. They were offering 11-1200 for export to Russia.

quadboy · 13-04-2013 11:41pm

sh1tstirrer wrote: »

Only buyers buying incalf dairy heifers before Christmas around here were exporters. They were offering 11-1200 for export to Russia.

No we sell ours after Christmas as close to calving as possible, a few of ours made 1300

quadboy · 23-04-2013 9:51pm

delaval wrote: »

2 ways to do it.
1. Day 1 and day 11 estrumate. Day 11 scratch cards or kmar and ai as bulling once a day.

2. Day 1 scratch card/kmar and ai as bulling. Day 7 estrumate remainder and ai as bulling

Option 1 takes 4-5 days
Option 2 takes 10-13 days

With each option you remove as ai'd taking pressure off your small area of ground.

This means that all your repeats should come at the same time so return them to this paddock at about 18 days after ai and scratch card and ai.

Could I just estrumate and stick scratchcards on them on day one and estrumate anything not bulled again a week after

delaval · 23-04-2013 10:05pm

quadboy wrote: »

Could I just estrumate and stick scratchcards on them on day one and estrumate anything not bulled again a week after

Yes, you will get a lot bulling on days 2 and 3 then est remainder on day7. Don't be disappointed if they all don't come as they may be prepubesent

quadboy · 30-04-2013 3:13pm

Planning on estrumating the heifers this week, was wondering is early feb too early for heifers to be calving,wouldn't buyers prefer an early calving heifer.

doyleshill · 30-04-2013 8:03pm

Do you AI as bulling if they are showing no sign of heat

dar31 · 30-04-2013 8:31pm

delaval wrote: »

2 ways to do it.
1. Day 1 and day 11 estrumate. Day 11 scratch cards or kmar and ai as bulling once a day.

2. Day 1 scratch card/kmar and ai as bulling. Day 7 estrumate remainder and ai as bulling

Option 1 takes 4-5 days
Option 2 takes 10-13 days

With each option you remove as ai'd taking pressure off your small area of ground.

This means that all your repeats should come at the same time so return them to this paddock at about 18 days after ai and scratch card and ai.

in option 2 is there any importance to estrumate on day 7 or can it be at anytime during the first round of breeding

i ask as this is my first year ai'ing heifers, and there arent as many as i would like around, so was going to sync once then let the bulls in, at the moment im 10 days into breeding, and about 45% of them have been served

quadboy · 30-04-2013 9:15pm

doyleshill wrote: »

Do you AI as bulling if they are showing no sign of heat

How can you ai them if they arnt showing signs of bulling

Bizzum · 30-04-2013 9:34pm

quadboy wrote: »

How can you ai them if they arnt showing signs of bulling

Get them drunk. :-)

Ah no, it's called fixed time insemination.

Timmaay · 30-04-2013 9:40pm

Blind luck, and just AI them at a fixed time following injection (I can't remember the timeframe, maybe 48hours?).

But unless your heat detection methods are brutal, having to resort to this seems abit counter productive as the heifer could well just either show very poor signs of being in heat, or have problems inside her, and would be likely to continue to have problems down the road. We must have spend a fortune on afew cows last year trying to get them back in calf, coils/estrumate/recepitol, eventually got them in calf but on hindsight would have been way less hassle to have just flogged them on while the cull cow prices were good.

quadboy · 30-04-2013 9:40pm

Bizzum wrote: »

Get them drunk. :-)

Ah no, it's called fixed time insemination.

Oh right never heard of it

sh1tstirrer · 30-04-2013 9:40pm

quadboy wrote: »

How can you ai them if they arnt showing signs of bulling

Fixed time AI it's called. AI them twice 72 and 96 hours after second injection. I know a farmer that did it and only two went incalf out of twenty.

Timmaay · 30-04-2013 9:46pm

sh1tstirrer wrote: »

Fixed time AI it's called. AI them twice 72 and 96 hours after second injection. I know a farmer that did it and only two went incalf out of twenty.

Owch, that must have been an expensive exercise, surely it's only be worth while if you did yourown AI, and had a load of cheap straws.

delaval · 30-04-2013 9:47pm

quadboy wrote: »

Planning on estrumating the heifers this week, was wondering is early feb too early for heifers to be calving,wouldn't buyers prefer an early calving heifer.

Early Feb is perfect time for heifers. If I were buying I would only buy Feb calving

delaval · 30-04-2013 9:49pm

Fixed time Ai only about 20% effective.

quadboy · 30-04-2013 9:54pm

delaval wrote: »

Fixed time Ai only about 20% effective.

I hope fixed time Ai is different to estrumating

sh1tstirrer · 30-04-2013 9:57pm

Timmaay wrote: »

Owch, that must have been an expensive exercise, surely it's only be worth while if you did yourown AI, and had a load of cheap straws.

What made it even more expensive for him is that he had to AI the heifers that didn't go incalf a third time and later in the season as he presumed that they were all incalf until he scanned them.

sh1tstirrer · 30-04-2013 10:00pm

quadboy wrote: »

I hope fixed time Ai is different to estrumating

You inject with estrumate then you can watch them for signs of heat or use fixed time AI.

delaval · 30-04-2013 10:02pm

quadboy wrote: »

I hope fixed time Ai is different to estrumating

Very different.
We started Ai the heifers last Monday and Ai'd 60% in 7 days. We then estrumated the remaining heifers on Monday and only had 3 today but expect to be busy tomorrow and Thursday, bulls will then clean up.

We are tailpainting the cows in am and starting ai tomorrow, so busy 2 mths ahead.

delaval · 30-04-2013 10:03pm

quadboy wrote: »

Planning on estrumating the heifers this week, was wondering is early feb too early for heifers to be calving,wouldn't buyers prefer an early calving heifer.

Have you started ai yet?

quadboy · 30-04-2013 10:04pm

Im planning on using estrumate then use scratchcards to know whats bulling, gona stick a bullock in with them too, does this sound good

quadboy · 30-04-2013 10:07pm

delaval wrote: »

Have you started ai yet?

Not yet their being moved tomorrow and hopefully injected tomorrow evening or Thursday

delaval · 30-04-2013 10:08pm

quadboy wrote: »

Im planning on using estrumate then use scratchcards to know whats bulling, gona stick a bullock in with them too, does this sound good

Not a good idea. If a heifer was bulling in the last week est useless and will have to be done again.
I suggest ai for 7 days and est on day 7 bullock may be a help

quadboy · 30-04-2013 10:15pm

Yeah I suppose, ill try them for the week so and see what gets done, the main reason why I wanted to est was to get em done quick cos small enough field but I can move them to a field closer to home if I move things around and use crush in the shed

delaval · 30-04-2013 10:22pm

quadboy wrote: »

Yeah I suppose, ill try them for the week so and see what gets done, the main reason why I wanted to est was to get em done quick cos small enough field but I can move them to a field closer to home if I move things around and use crush in the shed

Your numbers will be dropping daily. Move all ai'd animals away as you serve. If you are really short of feed give them nuts, feed them well and all will be well. You need to watch well or use kmar/scratchcard not paint as it doesn't work on heifers. Our heifers are 20 miles away and we find scratch cards ok perhaps not as good as kmar. I will post picture tomorrow when we get there to do ai.

quadboy · 30-04-2013 10:28pm

20 miles jesus mine are only goin a mile out the road and to be fair theres two fields side by side with a nice bit of grass. used the scratchcards last year so will be using them again and theres only 12 to do, they should get at least two weeks out there

delaval · 30-04-2013 10:31pm

quadboy wrote: »

20 miles jesus mine are only goin a mile out the road and to be fair theres two fields side by side with a nice bit of grass. used the scratchcards last year so will be using them again and theres only 12 to do, they should get at least two weeks out there

You'll be well finished by then. Are you going to ai repeats?

quadboy · 30-04-2013 10:35pm

Yeah don't have any bull, do you stick new cards on ones served to c if they repeat or just stick them in with the bull

delaval · 30-04-2013 10:42pm

We put with bull 2 days after ai so they have cooled down and in case we had a false heat(our mistake)
You should return heifers to these paddocks in 18 days after you ai first one and repeats will come together. Some of the ones you inject may not come bulling as they may not be fully mature so maybe keep near yard with bullock and watch well.

quadboy · 30-04-2013 10:46pm

delaval wrote: »

We put with bull 2 days after ai so they have cooled down and in case we had a false heat(our mistake)
You should return heifers to these paddocks in 18 days after you ai first one and repeats will come together. Some of the ones you inject may not come bulling as they may not be fully mature so maybe keep near yard with bullock and watch well.

The youngest is 14 months old

quadboy · 30-04-2013 10:48pm

15 months

sh1tstirrer · 01-05-2013 7:05am

delaval wrote: »

We put with bull 2 days after ai so they have cooled down and in case we had a false heat(our mistake)
You should return heifers to these paddocks in 18 days after you ai first one and repeats will come together. Some of the ones you inject may not come bulling as they may not be fully mature so maybe keep near yard with bullock and watch well.

Repeats need to be checked between 15 to 27 days after first ai.

quadboy · 01-05-2013 12:33pm

delaval wrote: »

Not a good idea. If a heifer was bulling in the last week est useless and will have to be done again.
I suggest ai for 7 days and est on day 7 bullock may be a help

The vet gave the same advice so ill let them work away on their own for a while

delaval · 01-05-2013 1:20pm

quadboy wrote: »

The vet gave the same advice so ill let them work away on their own for a while

I'm not as dear

quadboy · 01-05-2013 3:11pm

A fella told me that you can get a heifer repeating a lot if you estrumate, is that true

delaval · 01-05-2013 6:02pm

quadboy wrote: »

A fella told me that you can get a heifer repeating a lot if you estrumate, is that true

I don't know TBH. Make a plan and follow and don't be worried what fellas tell you because a fella probably told him:rolleyes:

quadboy · 01-05-2013 6:14pm

delaval wrote: »

I don't know TBH. Make a plan and follow and don't be worried what fellas tell you because a fella probably told him:rolleyes:

Yeah he was going by what fellsa told him and he said he didn't like early calving heifers

1chippy · 01-05-2013 9:06pm

quadboy wrote: »

Yeah he was going by what fellsa told him and he said he didn't like early calving heifers

we would try and have the heifers calving down as early as possible. Main calving starts from christmas on and would aim to have them calving down end of nov to early december. it doesnt always work that way but.
Never heard of heifers repeating a lot with estrumate, always seems to work alright with us. if it was me i would aim to have them calving down as early as possible.

Bulling Heifers

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