1980's high Irish emigration : why did 68% go to UK ?

Andrew_Doran

WayneMolloy wrote: »

Are you claiming that some miners were lazy people?

Miners?

Lazy?

I am a young, fit and healthy dude - but a week down the mines would floor me.

An unbelievably difficult job to hold down for a long period of time.

I'm sure many have no concept of how tough day-in day-out physical work can be no only on the body but the mind too, but if the miners were unable to adapt in a country with a fantastic transport network and plenty of work available in other regions..

true

WayneMolloy wrote: »

Are you claiming that some miners were lazy people?

Some of the people from that community may prefer not working to working, or be flexible - you get people like that everywhere in the world.
As someone else asked : Why did the miners not take the jobs the Irish were flocking to?

WayneMolloy

Andrew_Doran wrote: »

I'm sure many have no concept of how tough day-in day-out physical work can be no only on the body but the mind too, but if the miners were unable to adapt in a country with a fantastic transport network and plenty of work available in other regions..

It is very hard to convince a 40 something year old man to relocate to an unfamiliar place and take up a job in a bar, shop or as a general skiv.

Especially if all his family and friends are in that area.

true

there are plenty of 40+ people I know who go further. Its called economic necessity.

WayneMolloy

true wrote: »

there are plenty of 40+ people I know who go further. Its called economic necessity.

And there is that too.

But not everyone is a transient piece of labour. Its hard to teach an old dog new tricks.

Did you hear about the Donegal lad who received a letter from fas who was told to head on over to Malta to take up a bus driving position paying 250 a week?

Fine if hes young without any commitments - but this was a middle aged lad with a fam ffs.

Chuck Stone

true wrote: »

One reason is that some of the miners did not want to work

And that's why they were out fighting tooth and nail to stop pit closures? ****ing hell.

You'd get the teeth knocked out of your head if you said that in many parts of England and Wales.

Seaneh

Irish people didn't flock to "Maggie's Britain" they flocked to London. A city that was almost completely insulated from the economic realities of the rest of "Maggie's Britain" thanks to The City of London being one of the biggest financial centres in the world. The Irish who moved there in the 80's either worked in the service or construction industries which supported the City of London's financial sector workers. Taking up jobs in Hotels, Bars, shops, restaurants, buildings sites and so forth.

If they had of moved to anywhere north of Milton Keynes or west of Reading, they would have encountered the reality of the rest of Britain with the high unemployment, misery and hopelessness that the vast majority of Britain was living with which only got worse the further north you went.

Even in this recession, London (like NY and Milan and other major centres) is mostly insulated from the rest of Britain's (and Europe's) problems because of the city.

I'd wager that if you checked the where those Irish who went to the UK ended up, the overwhelming majority would have been in London. I strongly doubt many of them were in Bradford or Sheffield or Manchester or Birmingham or Liverpool or any of the other major cities, those places were just as ****ed as Ireland was, more so in some of them.

Now, get back in your box.

starviewadams

Because it was better then staying here,but close enough to come home quickly and cheaply if needs be.

Same reason I'm joining 3 of my friends who have already emigrated there,in June.

WayneMolloy

starviewadams wrote: »

Because it was better then staying here,but close enough to come home quickly and cheaply if needs be.

Same reason I'm joining 3 of my friends who have already emigrated there,in June.

Best of luck.

rusheen

questionmark? wrote: »

It was close to home, the historical links between the two nations, even if Aer Lingus charged outrageous prices it was still cheaper and easier than America, Oz et al..., no visa requirements, social scene I.e. drink culture was similar. Nothing to do with Thatcher as they would have went at that period regardless of who was in charge. I'd safely say that most people leaving Ireland to this day go the UK no matter that everyone seems to speak about Oz!

Your spot on, officially the vast majority of todays Irish immigrants are going to the UK. I'm sure someone will correct me but I think the figure is 50% of the Irish people leaving Ireland this year are going to Britain.

Are they choosing Britain because of David Cameron ?!
I'd say its the last thing on peoples mind and they dont care less!!

getzls

LizT wrote: »

Close to home, speak the same language, not many cultural differences.

Would a lot of Irish at that time still have regarded the U.K. as the Mother country?

Nodin

getzls wrote: »

Would a lot of Irish at that time still have regarded the U.K. as the Mother country?

In the 1980's? Get a grip.

Gloomtastic!

I moved to London on the mid-eighties because, as stated many times already, it was easy.

Conversely, I'd say the majority of British people emigrating over the last decade or so, moved here to Ireland.

I know we make up the largest ethic majority in each others countries. (I say we because I brought my English wife back with me).

Norwesterner

To answer the O.P it was mainly construction and tunneling work in the 80's which accounted for the high uptick in Irish emigration to England.
Germany and the Isle of Man was also a magnet for Irish builders at the time.
Brickies were getting phenomonal money in these places at the time.
500 pound sterling a week was common in London in the late 80's.
Probably the same as a brickie earns in London today 25 years later.
Of course the Berlin Wall was still around back then, unlike today. Hence the higher wages

wonderfullife

Seaneh wrote: »

Irish people didn't flock to "Maggie's Britain" they flocked to London. A city that was almost completely insulated from the economic realities of the rest of "Maggie's Britain" thanks to The City of London being one of the biggest financial centres in the world. The Irish who moved there in the 80's either worked in the service or construction industries which supported the City of London's financial sector workers. Taking up jobs in Hotels, Bars, shops, restaurants, buildings sites and so forth.

If they had of moved to anywhere north of Milton Keynes or west of Reading, they would have encountered the reality of the rest of Britain with the high unemployment, misery and hopelessness that the vast majority of Britain was living with which only got worse the further north you went.

Even in this recession, London (like NY and Milan and other major centres) is mostly insulated from the rest of Britain's (and Europe's) problems because of the city.

I'd wager that if you checked the where those Irish who went to the UK ended up, the overwhelming majority would have been in London. I strongly doubt many of them were in Bradford or Sheffield or Manchester or Birmingham or Liverpool or any of the other major cities, those places were just as ****ed as Ireland was, more so in some of them.

Now, get back in your box.

By 2012, there were 406,000 Irish-born people working in the UK. Of that total, 36,000 were in London.

If your wager is to be correct, a hell of a lot of people (over 300,000) moved from London to elsewhere.

Or, maybe you're wrong. Not sure.

wonderfullife

Ps. OP, whilst i agree with most of your sentiments over Thatcher, this is a not so thinly-veiled backdoor thread!!

The other thread is not about whether Thatchers UK was better than Haugheys Ireland and all this thread accomplishes is to show the latter was more sh1t than the former.

Seaneh

wonderfullife wrote: »

By 2012, there were 406,000 Irish-born people working in the UK. Of that total, 36,000 were in London.

If your wager is to be correct, a hell of a lot of people (over 300,000) moved from London to elsewhere.

Or, maybe you're wrong. Not sure.

we are talking about tge 80's not 2012. most of them moved back to ireland.

true

getzls wrote: »

Would a lot of Irish at that time still have regarded the U.K. as the Mother country?

I suppose financially it was then and still is.

sock puppet

wonderfullife wrote: »

By 2012, there were 406,000 Irish-born people working in the UK. Of that total, 36,000 were in London.

If your wager is to be correct, a hell of a lot of people (over 300,000) moved from London to elsewhere.

Or, maybe you're wrong. Not sure.

That can't be right surely? That's less than a tenth of Irish emigrants, and London's share of the British economy is far greater than that.

mike65

wonderfullife wrote: »

By 2012, there were 406,000 Irish-born people working in the UK. Of that total, 36,000 were in London.

If your wager is to be correct, a hell of a lot of people (over 300,000) moved from London to elsewhere.

Or, maybe you're wrong. Not sure.

sock puppet wrote: »

That can't be right surely? That's less than a tenth of Irish emigrants, and London's share of the British economy is far greater than that.

Irish born population in England and Wales (the Scots keep separate figures) 2011 348,638 of which 125,000 are in the area classified as London (inner 55,000 and outer 75,000)

Numbers from http://www.ons.gov.uk/ons/rel/census/2011-census/key-statistics-for-local-authorities-in-england-and-wales/rft-table-ks202ew.xls

wonderfullife

mike65 wrote: »

Irish born population in England and Wales (the Scots keep separate figures) 2011 348,638 of which 125,000 are in the area classified as London (inner 55,000 and outer 75,000)

Numbers from http://www.ons.gov.uk/ons/rel/census/2011-census/key-statistics-for-local-authorities-in-england-and-wales/rft-table-ks202ew.xls

yeah the figure i quote was 36,000 working in the area defined as the city of london

Even still that's only 25% of irish born people living in the greater London area (when you include Scotland as part of the total).

mike65

36,000 barrow boys? :eek:

Seaneh

wonderfullife wrote: »

yeah the figure i quote was 36,000 working in the area defined as the city of london

Even still that's only 25% of irish born people living in the greater London area (when you include Scotland as part of the total).

The City of London is 1 square mile ffs.

sock puppet

Seaneh wrote: »

The City of London is 1 square mile ffs.

I imagine they mean the city of London with a small c, as in London city.

Seaneh

sock puppet wrote: »

I imagine they mean the city of London with a small c, as in London city.

No, the mean the borough of The City of London.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/City_of_London

As pointed out earlier, there are over 125,000 Irish born people living in the London Urban Zone (even more in the greater metro area) and make up almost half of all Irish people living in England and Wales.

true

true wrote: »

One reason is that some of the miners did not want to work - you get people like that everywhere.

They wanted to continue working as miners, that's what they were good at, after all that's what they trained and became skilled at doing!

Andrew_Doran

Andrew_Doran wrote: »

I'm sure many have no concept of how tough day-in day-out physical work can be no only on the body but the mind too, but if the miners were unable to adapt in a country with a fantastic transport network and plenty of work available in other regions..

Do you know how long it takes to commute from Barnsley to Euston!

sock puppet

Seaneh wrote: »

No, the mean the borough of The City of London.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/City_of_London

As pointed out earlier, there are over 125,000 Irish born people living in the London Urban Zone (even more in the greater metro area) and make up almost half of all Irish people living in England and Wales.

I just meant that they might have been ignorant of the terminology. Anyway they could well be right now that I think of it. A lot of people work in the City.

purplepanda

Lots of Northern English did move to London in the '80's, and many used to work extra hours Monday - Thursday so they could be back with their families for Friday evening.

I was talking to some Scouse lads after a funeral of an old Geordie lad who was a well known Union man around here in North London.

These lads were actually saying South & parts of East London was like a foreign country to them, after living in London since the early '80's. :pac: They even called them "Woollybacks" :rolleyes:

Strange how many Northern English, Scots & Irish seem to gravitate towards the North & West of the City, the Welsh slightly more West, although Willesden known traditionally for being Irish has the largest concentration of Welsh born, with even Welsh language schools.

There has been a fair bit of intermarrying between all of the above since the '80's, so what might once have been differences have largely gone.

So much so that local lads from Lancs & Yorks are often over in Ireland during summer to watch Hurling championship matches :eek:

true

Deleted User wrote: »

They wanted to continue working as miners, that's what they were good at, after all that's what they trained and became skilled at doing!

But they wanted much higher wages than their competitors ( who were willing to supply the UK market from overseas ). Not only that, they want the UK taxpayer to subsidise them. Why should miners be subsidised when, for example, people in the clothes manufacturing industry were / are not?

I bet the clothes you are wearing and the toys you buy your nephews at Xmas were all made in low cost countries. Do you think people should be subsidised to make them in this part of the world? If not, why should miners be subsidised?