1980's high Irish emigration : why did 68% go to UK ?

true

We all know there was hugh emigration in the 1980's. Remember those billboards in the airport where the IDA had a photo of a class, and it transpired every single one had emigrated. Statistics show that the majority of emigrants went to the UK. The NESC (23) report suggests that in the 1981-1990 period 68% of all emigrants went to the UK, 14% to the USA and 18% to other countries.
http://migration.ucc.ie/etudesirlandaises.htm

Why did so many go to England? Surely if Britain in that era was only a quarter as bad as some people would portray, very few would have gone there?
Was it solely for economic reasons that so many economic refugees fled over to there, or did people go because of social reasons: it was more tolerant of minorities, gays etc. Was it because there was much less corruption than at home, from the top down? A fairer way of life? Less tax? Less oppressive culture? Practically every family in the country had someone who went to England then : some stayed, some came back.
68% of emigrants going to one country - only the percentage of Cuban emigrants who go to the USA -as opposed to some other country, despite the propoganda -must be higher! Food for thought.

hollysf

It's cheap to get to and close to home.

ppshay

Went to work on Maggie's farm.

Seachmall

Obviously It was because Margaret Thatcher was a delightful lady that reminded so many homesick Irish of their Mammies.

LizT

Close to home, speak the same language, not many cultural differences.

Witcher

It was the nearest place that wasn't home, it was English speaking and wasn't too different to Ireland broadly speaking.

123balltv

Yeah close to home just a short hop on boat or plane when my Mam found out my Brother was going to England instead of Australia she jumped for joy.

Gatling

LizT wrote: »

Close to home, speak the same language, not many cultural difference.

Add the football though it may sound weird some did emigrate just for or to play football

General General

London. Even in bad times, it's still a considerable hive of economic activity.

gowley

they could get a job there

Wils110

Tax..I've an uncle who went in 86 he was getting taxed to the hilt here so he went to London his circle of friends over there are the same Irish lads who went over they are all successful businessmen now worth a fortune they never regret it.....

Dr. Kenneth Noisewater

Close to home, significant Irish community already in place, economy booming in mid to late eighties, similiar climate and culture, lots of reasons. Also, I notice you mentined the gay scene which would have been much more vibrant in London and virtually non existant here.

Easier to go to the pub across the road than head into town. :cool:

The car and boat journey back at xmas was a b1tch though! My booster childseat wasn't a safety certified booster childseat. It was a VCR! Then on the return journey, said seat resembled bottles of poitin.

ppshay

Here, at that time, a job interview was a sweaty palm, edge of the seat, silent prayer, please Mister affair. Over there, they tried to persuade you to take the job.

true

ppshay wrote: »

Here, at that time, a job interview was a sweaty palm, edge of the seat, silent prayer, please Mister affair. Over there, they tried to persuade you to take the job.

So Irish people in Thatchers Britain got treated better than we did at home? Thats why 300,000 went? Thats over double the population of Cork, our second largest city in the state.

WayneMolloy

A flight to London in the 80s was near a weeks wage. A flight to America, Canada, or Australia would cost considerably more again. Most emigrants harvest plans to only move abroad for a few years, save up some cash and then return home. Investing anymore than a weeks wages in transport costs, wouldnt seem too worthwhile, if that was your original plan.

Also, this was before skype, facebook and all that lark- emigrating half way across the globe was a lot more difficult then, than it is today. Homesickness plagued many an emigrant. At least an irish lad in London was only a few hours away and letters sent to him would only take a day or two.

true

WayneMolloy wrote: »

A flight to London in the 80s was near a weeks wage. A flight to America, Canada, or Australia would cost considerably more again. Most emigrants harvest plans to only move abroad for a few years, save up some cash and then return home. Investing anymore than a weeks wages in transport costs, wouldnt seem too worthwhile, if that was your original plan.

Also, this was before skype, facebook and all that lark- emigrating half way across the globe was a lot more difficult then, than it is today. Homesickness plagued many an emigrant. At least an irish lad in London was only a few hours away and letters sent to him would only take a day or two.

Considering all of the above, life as an Irish person in Thatchers Britain must have been considerably better than life as an Irish person in Ireland at the time, to make all that expensive travel you mention, and the homesickness worthwhile?

tyney

Less tax. Better healthcare. Cheaper to buy , tax, ,insure and run a car. Cheaper beer and food. We were better educated at the time, so no difficulty getting a job.
Rent was affordable. I know some regret coming back.

WayneMolloy

true wrote: »

Considering all of the above, life as an Irish person in Thatchers Britain must have been considerably better than life as an Irish person in Ireland at the time, to make all that expensive travel you mention, and the homesickness worthwhile?

I dont know - I was only alive for a couple of years during the 80s. I was just offering up some explanations as to why I thought 68 percent of Irish emigrants moved to Thatchers Britain.

None of my family emigrated, so I cant give you any more detail than that.

dd972

Cheap and easy to get to and from, same language, different jurisdiction though not 'foreign', everyone grows up familiar with the culture on TV and Radio, most Irish people have Aunts, Uncles and Cousins over there, so it makes sense to stay in the British Isles.











(calm down lads,last bit was a joke)

true

Considering the UK had the IMF in only a few years previously, it seems the UK was well run and governed therefore between 1979 and 1990? Certainly much better ran by Mrs Thatcher than our country was run by Charlie J Haughey at the time, if the UK was able to attract most of our young people?
Maybe if we had a strong leader like Mrs T we could turn our countries finances around and not just get the IMF out but become a big net contributer to the EC also?

Capt'n Midnight

WayneMolloy wrote: »

A flight to London in the 80s was near a weeks wage. A flight to America, Canada, or Australia would cost considerably more again

But the bus to London was a lot cheaper. And most people knew someone or a friend of a friend who could put them up till they found a job or a place.

Also the UK had dole and decent healthcare and if the worst came to the worst you could nearly hitch a lift home.

WayneMolloy

true wrote: »

Considering the UK had the IMF in only a few years previously, it seems the UK was well run and governed therefore between 1979 and 1990? Certainly much better ran by Mrs Thatcher than our country was run by Charlie J Haughey at the time, if the UK was able to attract most of our young people?
Maybe if we had a strong leader like Mrs T we could turn our countries finances around and not just get the IMF out but become a big net contributer to the EC also?

What is the purpose behind this thread? Do you want us to admit that Ireland was an economic wasteland during the 80s(it was!)? Or that we were closet Thatcher lovers?

WayneMolloy

Capt'n Midnight wrote: »

But the bus to London was a lot cheaper. And most people knew someone or a friend of a friend who could put them up till they found a job or a place.

Spot on. I dint think of that. Emigrants could not take the bus to new world countries.

true

WayneMolloy wrote: »

Spot on. I dint think of that. Emigrants could not take the bus to new world countries.

Obviously Mrs Thatcher rescued Britain from the IMF and made Britain an attractive enough place to attract most of our hundreds of thousands of emigrants. Yet, judging by some peoples comments Mrs T 's Britain was not a nice place, so why did so incredibly many emigrants vote with their feet and head there, if it was so bad? Should'nt the refugees have been coming the other way?

Nodin

true wrote: »

Obviously Mrs Thatcher rescued Britain from the IMF and made Britain an attractive enough place to attract most of our hundreds of thousands of emigrants. Yet, judging by some peoples comments Mrs T 's Britain was not a nice place, so why did so incredibly many emigrants vote with their feet and head there, if it was so bad? Should'nt the refugees have been coming the other way?

Transparent, simplistic, tired and sad.

ArnoldJRimmer

Nodin wrote: »

Transparent, simplistic, tired and sad.

Agreed, even for AH, this was extremely childish

rusheen

Because Ted Kennedy the self expressed "great Irish man" closed the door for Irish Immigration to the USA .unless you could live with being illeagal . Oz wasnt great back then . Only in the last few years there dollar is any good .

gallag

Its a good point op but people wont like it. Obviously people voted with their feet and maggies Britain offerd a lot of irish opportunity they were not afforded at home. Its not like the irish were recipients of charity though, many worked hard and became successful like generations before them to help forge the Britain of today.

Chuck Stone

What a truly dumb question. They went there same reason hundreds of thousands of people from Britain*/Poland/etc came to Ireland during the celtic pyramid.









*Estimated at 220,000 at one stage.

LordSutch

true wrote: »

1980's high Irish emigration : why did 68% go to UK ?

Well to start with I guess wr're talking about ENGLAND here, and in particular the South of England.

I was actually one of those who left these shores in the mid 80s heading for the bright lights of the neasest big smoke which was London. You must remember that for most of the 1980s, Ireland was even more of a basket case than Britain had been in the 70s, and from a young mans point of view all the action was in the south of England, and London in particular. From the best bands in the world, to the best beer, the cheap fags, to really cheap cars (I left a bashed up Mini behind & bought a datsun zx 280 the year after for a song), really cheap car insurance too! + much cheaper consumer goods like Hi fi systems/ car stereos, to everything you can think of. (Shopping in Tesco Marks & Sparks & Sainsbury was a joy after only having Quinnsworth back home), free trips to the doctor & the dentist.

Getting away from Priest ridden narrow minded Catholic Ireland was a breath of fresh air, and thats why so many Irish
people headed over on the boat/train to England. I seem to remember Tax being a massive 'negative' issue here too.

Living somewhere at a certain time is not like how that era is portrayed in the news or history, you yourself are getting on with life, going to work and just living,, so even though those clips you see of what the UK was like in the 1980s, when you were living there it did not seem like that to you especialy if you went to London.

Dyr

true wrote: »

We all know there was hugh emigration in the 1980's. Remember those billboards in the airport where the IDA had a photo of a class, and it transpired every single one had emigrated. Statistics show that the majority of emigrants went to the UK. The NESC (23) report suggests that in the 1981-1990 period 68% of all emigrants went to the UK, 14% to the USA and 18% to other countries.
http://migration.ucc.ie/etudesirlandaises.htm

Why did so many go to England? Surely if Britain in that era was only a quarter as bad as some people would portray, very few would have gone there?
Was it solely for economic reasons that so many economic refugees fled over to there, or did people go because of social reasons: it was more tolerant of minorities, gays etc. Was it because there was much less corruption than at home, from the top down? A fairer way of life? Less tax? Less oppressive culture? Practically every family in the country had someone who went to England then : some stayed, some came back.
68% of emigrants going to one country - only the percentage of Cuban emigrants who go to the USA -as opposed to some other country, despite the propoganda -must be higher! Food for thought.

Because you needed a visa to go work anywhere else?

Food for thought

who the fug

Didn't fancy being illegal in the US, there was work and a large Irish community to network in

Fratton Fred

LordSutch wrote: »

Well to start with I guess wr're talking about ENGLAND here, and in particular the South of England.

I was actually one of those who left these shores in the mid 80s heading for the bright lights of the neasest big smoke which was London. You must remember that for most of the 1980s, Ireland was even more of a basket case than Britain had been in the 70s, and from a young mans point of view all the action was in the south of England, and London in particular. From the best bands in the world, to the best beer, the cheap fags, to really cheap cars (I left a bashed up Mini behind & bought a datsun zx 280 the year after for a song), really cheap car insurance too! + much cheaper consumer goods like Hi fi systems/ car stereos, to everything you can think of. (Shopping in Tesco Marks & Sparks & Sainsbury was a joy after only having Quinnsworth back home), free trips to the doctor & the dentist.

Getting away from Priest ridden narrow minded Catholic Ireland was a breath of fresh air, and thats why so many Irish
people headed over on the boat/train to England. I seem to remember Tax being a massive 'negative' issue here too.

But surely you had nowhere to stay with all the "no dogs, no blacks, no Irish" signs in every window?

Nodin

Fratton Fred wrote: »

But surely you had nowhere to stay with all the "no dogs, no blacks, no Irish" signs in every window?

That was the 1950's fred.

You aren't going to try to make this thread all about you, are ye?

bullpost

You're right -I was wandering around for weeks with my black labrador looking for somewhere to stay !

Fratton Fred wrote: »

But surely you had nowhere to stay with all the "no dogs, no blacks, no Irish" signs in every window?

johnr1

Nodin wrote: »

Transparent, simplistic, tired and sad.

Oh right, so thats what this is about.

I failed to look who the OP was, and was about to write a reasonable response. Now I understand.

The answer OP, is that Maggie was a wonderful kind person, and we all yearned to live under her benevolent rule. Happy now? Mkay, Cheers. :pac:

Fratton Fred

Nodin wrote: »

You aren't going to try to make this thread all about you, are ye?

What a truly absurd thing to say!?

dd972

rusheen wrote: »

Because Ted Kennedy the self expressed "great Irish man" closed the door for Irish Immigration to the USA .unless you could live with being illeagal . Oz wasnt great back then . Only in the last few years there dollar is any good .

Don't criticize Irish Americans who went there in 1847, they're ''one of us'' unlike those Brits and Tans over the water with their Irish parents and passports.

true

Bambi wrote: »

Because you needed a visa to go work anywhere else?

No actually: we were part of the EEC then and could have gone to France, Germany, Spain etc without a Visa. In fact some did. But the vast majority of people (68% ) went to Thatcher's Britain in that decade....a bit puzzling surely if it and she was as bad as some people are now portraying her? If Britain was like it was just before she took over ( in a desperate state, with IMF there, strikes etc ) would as many have gone?

Nodin

true wrote: »

No actually: we were part of the EEC then and could have gone to France, Germany, Spain etc without a Visa. In fact some did. But the vast majority of people (68% ) went to Thatcher's Britain in that decade....a bit puzzling surely if it and she was as bad as some people are now portraying her? If Britain was like it was just before she took over ( in a desperate state, with IMF there, strikes etc ) would as many have gone?

....continuing your habit of ignoring valid points made to the contrary and saying the same thing over and over, I see.

gallag

Nodin wrote: »

....continuing your habit of ignoring valid points made to the contrary and saying the same thing over and over, I see.

All the "valid points" in the world will not explane away many hundred thousand irish men and women preferring Thatchers Britain to their home country.

Nodin

gallag wrote: »

All the "valid points" in the world will not explane away many hundred thousand irish men and women preferring Thatchers Britain to their home country.

...that remark makes no sense whatsoever.

purplepanda

Nothing new, many of the grandparents family travelled over to England & back every year, at least since the '20's & 30's, always the South East & West country / Wales, some worked in construction, others in agriculture. Women in care & service work.

Whilst there was work in Southern England the mid 80's, the north of England was still suffering recession, like many parts of Ireland, even areas of Dublin were not that much different from Liverpool, Manchester, Sheffield, Glasgow, Birmingham, ect. I traveled around the North of England many times during the period & saw the effects of long term recession first hand.

On BBC Radio a few days back it was mentioned that unemployment in parts of Sheffield in 1996 was 39%. Manchester itself only recovered in the '90's.

It's very obvious that Britain has always been a common destination for Irish immigrants, but you wouldn't know it by the publicity for "The Gathering" where only Irish Americans seem to be the advertising target for marketing.

who the fug

purplepanda wrote: »

It's very obvious that Britain has always been a common destination for Irish immigrants, but you wouldn't know it by the publicity for "The Gathering" where only Irish Americans seem to be the advertising target for marketing.

They mention the rip off gathering stunt on the TV ads

true

Nodin wrote: »

...that remark makes no sense whatsoever.

What part of the statement that was made ( All the "valid points" in the world will not explain away the many hundreds of thousands of irish men and women who preferred Thatchers Britain to their home country) do you not understand?

Do you not understand the other posters point that there were many hundreds of thousands of irish men and women who preferred Thatchers Britain to their home country?

They did not see it as Thacher's Britten they just saw it as a country with more and better jobs, more opportunities and cheaper beer....while trying not to stereotyping all young people I don't think the politics of the UK was a big concern when emigrating and as I said when you are living in a situation you don't experience it as it is portrayed in the news.

karma_

true wrote: »

What part of the statement that was made ( All the "valid points" in the world will not explain away the many hundreds of thousands of irish men and women who preferred Thatchers Britain to their home country) do you not understand?

Do you not understand the other posters point that there were many hundreds of thousands of irish men and women who preferred Thatchers Britain to their home country?

The reasons why so many went to Britain have already been pointed out to you, that you choose to ignore them is no fault of other posters.

By the way it's Irish.

FTA69

They went to London and the large cities. How hard is it for you to understand that a construction boom in the London area does not mean that large swathes of Britain weren't in the doldrums?

WayneMolloy

Why did the British not revoke the common travel area when the Irish started bombing the f*ck out of their cities?

Madness having an open border with a country, when hundreds, if not thousands, of their citizens were intent on committing terrorist attacks in your country.