A dog on the DART?

RichardAnd

Hi everyone.

My girlfriend is planing on taking a dog she is minding on the Dart this weekend but she's unsure whether or not it would be permitted. The Dog is a Greyhound - Lurcher bitch so she's not too small but she certainly isn't a large dog. The journey would be from Killiney to Harmonstown.

I've read the article on Irish Rail's website that describes the rules for taking animals on the Dart but it doesn't really settle the above question for me . . .

Thanks

Cookie_Monster

No, dogs are not allowed on DARTs apart from lap dogs and guide dogs

The rules
http://www.irishrail.ie/index.jsp?p=120&n=155

Hilly Bill

Put a muzzle on it and you will be ok but avoid peak times when the train will be packed.

Scortho

Cookie_Monster wrote: »

No, dogs are not allowed on DARTs apart from lap dogs and guide dogs

The rules
http://www.irishrail.ie/index.jsp?p=120&n=155

Define lap dog! I could put a retriever on my lap!:)

In reality op a greyhound is probably a bit on the big side to take on the dart.
Your best bet though would be to ring iarnrod eireann.

coylemj

Scortho wrote: »

Define lap dog! I could put a retriever on my lap!:)

In reality op a greyhound is probably a bit on the big side to take on the dart.
Your best bet though would be to ring iarnrod eireann.

If you phone them they will simply read the rules to you and they're already on the website.

If you happen to get someone on the phone who's prepared to stick their neck out and say it will be fine (highly unlikely with IR), remember that the person you speak to on the phone is not the official you may have to deal with on the train or in the station.

So IMHO phoning them is a waste of time.

Scortho

coylemj wrote: »

If you phone them they will simply read the rules to you and they're already on the website.

If you happen to get someone on the phone who's prepared to stick their neck out and say it will be fine (highly unlikely with IR), remember that the person you speak to on the phone is not the official you may have to deal with on the train or in the station.

So IMHO phoning them is a waste of time.

Jeysus are they that bad? If someone was to ring my place of work I'd tell them what they will and won't get away with.

coylemj

Scortho wrote: »

Jeysus are they that bad? If someone was to ring my place of work I'd tell them what they will and won't get away with.

Nobody in Irish Rail gets rewarded for showing initiative, it's not that sort of organisation.

Rules is rules.

Cookie_Monster

Hilly Bill wrote: »

Put a muzzle on it and you will be ok but avoid peak times when the train will be packed.

put a hat on it and say it's your grandmother

gobnaitolunacy

Judging by recent press releases by IE, dogs occasionally seem to travel without their owners!

http://www.thejournal.ie/missing-dog-malahide-greystones-dart-724983-Dec2012/

Hilly Bill

Cookie_Monster wrote: »

put a hat on it and say it's your grandmother

No need, the muzzle will do just fine.

carlmango11

I've seen dogs on the DART once or twice. It was off peak. The rules seem to prohibit it but tbh I'd say they wouldn't mind.

Interesting topic though, why is Dublin transport so anti-animal? In the UK people can bring their dogs on public transport, even into pubs in a lot of places!

jd83

Scortho wrote: »

Define lap dog! I could put a retriever on my lap!:)

In reality op a greyhound is probably a bit on the big side to take on the dart.
Your best bet though would be to ring iarnrod eireann.

RichardAnd

Thanks for the replies lads. To be honest, my reading of the rules on the site would lead me to believe that they are horribly vague. IT's likely that I could risk taking a dog on the dart, I mean at the worst, we could just be asked to get off...

Hilly Bill

You wont be told to get off. At worst , you wont be let through the barriers in Killiney or Harmonstown on the the way back but i doubt it very much.

ProudDUB

carlmango11 wrote: »

I've seen dogs on the DART once or twice. It was off peak. The rules seem to prohibit it but tbh I'd say they wouldn't mind.

Interesting topic though, why is Dublin transport so anti-animal?

Perhaps it is a matter of cleanliness and hygiene. If the dog does a number # 1 or even worse, a #2 on the DART, who is going to clean it up? Your friend? I seriously doubt that. And even if she did clean it up, there would still be unpleasant smells and wet, poo/pee stained floors and seats for the other passengers to deal with. Is that fair on them? I don't think that it is. That is one of the reason why airlines require passengers transporting pets to do so in pet carriers that have solid bottoms with a padded, absorbent layer on top. You can't tell a dog to just cross his legs and wait until you get to where ever you are going.

strandroad

ProudDUB wrote: »

Perhaps it is a matter of cleanliness and hygiene. If the dog does a number # 1 or even worse, a #2 on the DART, who is going to clean it up? Your friend? I seriously doubt that. And even if she did clean it up, there would still be unpleasant smells and wet, poo/pee stained floors and seats for the other passengers to deal with. Is that fair on them? I don't think that it is. That is one of the reason why airlines require passengers transporting pets to do so in pet carriers that have solid bottoms with a padded, absorbent layer on top. You can't tell a dog to just cross his legs and wait until you get to where ever you are going.

Can't speak for all dog owners, but my dogs never go indoors, in the car etc. One is so picky that he won't even go on concrete/pavements/stones, he needs to find grass or at least a green patch. It is indeed their version of crossing their legs That's the point of house training. Of course there may be accidents, but it's probably much more likely for a person/child to throw up (sober, not to mention intoxicated folks) and we don't ban people from being on the train based on this.

aujopimur

I'd say you'll be ok, there's a pic doing the rounds of a guy taking a pony on the DART.

BenShermin

I was sitting on a train between Cardiff and Holyhead a few years ago when a few Burburry wearing youth boarded at Chester with a bulldog. There was an awful smell in the carriage which my friend and I quickly blamed on the dog. The dog alighted at Rhyl with some of the youths, however the smell remained, seems it came from two of the Burberry heads that remained on the train until Bangor. The train once again became "fresh" from Bangor to Holyhead. Learned a life lesson that evening, you can't always blame it on the dog!!

I actually love the British culture of dogs being allowed into hostelries etc. I've even seen some barmen in Chester pubs giving their four legged customers water (sometimes ale ) in bowls. Off-peak I see no problem with bringing the dog on the train, IÉ need as much custom as it can get IMO. They are slow to change though, until recently I couldn't bring my two wheeled friend on off peak trains!!

Hilly Bill

ProudDUB wrote: »

Perhaps it is a matter of cleanliness and hygiene. If the dog does a number # 1 or even worse, a #2 on the DART, who is going to clean it up? Your friend? I seriously doubt that. And even if she did clean it up, there would still be unpleasant smells and wet, poo/pee stained floors and seats for the other passengers to deal with. Is that fair on them? I don't think that it is. That is one of the reason why airlines require passengers transporting pets to do so in pet carriers that have solid bottoms with a padded, absorbent layer on top. You can't tell a dog to just cross his legs and wait until you get to where ever you are going.

I think the dog would be a bit cleaner than some that have used the dart in the past.

pervertedcoffee

ProudDUB wrote: »

Perhaps it is a matter of cleanliness and hygiene. If the dog does a number # 1 or even worse, a #2 on the DART, who is going to clean it up? Your friend? I seriously doubt that. And even if she did clean it up, there would still be unpleasant smells and wet, poo/pee stained floors and seats for the other passengers to deal with. Is that fair on them? I don't think that it is. That is one of the reason why airlines require passengers transporting pets to do so in pet carriers that have solid bottoms with a padded, absorbent layer on top. You can't tell a dog to just cross his legs and wait until you get to where ever you are going.

Au contrair, dogs can be trained to 'hold it' until you specifically ask them to relieve themselves. Granted 99.9% of dog owners don't (and don't need to) do this, but it is possible.

I think simple house training would prevent them from eliminating on board and I really think public transport should be more open to having pets on board. If we want to cite behaviour and hygiene, just make it a requirement that all dogs wanting to travel must have passed their canine good citizen's test (which should be a requirement of ALL dog owners but that's not this discussion).

dowlingm

Service animals are trained for situations that would make many other dogs nervous, like being crammed into a train at rush hour - most people don't know that it's bad form to interact with them when they are "on the job".

RichardAnd: not sure why you are uncertain about the rules. They clearly read to me as "no". Unless this is a pretty tiny greyhound it will not be practicable to have it on your girlfriend's lap, and dogs exceeding that size are allowed on Intercity services with guard's vans only.

If she chooses to disregard the rules and rely on other IE staff disregarding them, that's fine, but while the rules are overly wordy they aren't that hard to navigate.

For those who think that IE should disregard their own rules in the pursuit of one additional fare, consider the people who have fear of or allergy to dogs who are able to make accommodation for small or service animals. If the rules were lifted entirely and antisocial dogs became a common sight then the fares of those people would be lost.

pervertedcoffee

dowlingm wrote: »

For those who think that IE should disregard their own rules in the pursuit of one additional fare, consider the people who have fear of or allergy to dogs who are able to make accommodation for small or service animals.

I feel this is a moot point. With that kind of reasoning dogs would be kept indoors out of everyone's way forever and that's just not reasonable, which is why they are allowed and mostly welcomed in public places - apart from places that serve food.

dowlingm wrote: »

If the rules were lifted entirely and antisocial dogs became a common sight then the fares of those people would be lost.

Do people who fear dogs stay out of parks, beaches and woods because they might find a dog? I doubt it, unless it's an irrational, dehabilitating fear, which is a different issue. Also, that's why I brought up the canine good citizens test - it would keep the badly behaved owners with dogs out.

gobnaitolunacy

A contrast to the situation in the UK. I don't see people across the water dissuaded from train travel in their droves for fear of the hoards of unruly animals on board.
Ireland in general is dog unfriendly and overflowing with Elfin Safety BS.

from Nationalrail.co.uk

Transporting animals by train
Passengers may take with them, free of charge and subject to conditions below, dogs, cats and other small animals (maximum two per passenger) provided they do not endanger or inconvenience passengers or staff.
Dogs must be kept on a lead at all times unless contained in a basket.
Dogs without leads, cats, birds and small animals must be carried in an enclosed basket, cage or pet carrier. It must be rigid and not open (to prevent escape) and the animal able to stand and lie down in comfort.
Animals and containers must not occupy seats, otherwise a charge will be made.
Animals are not allowed in restaurant cars except for blind persons' guide dogs or deaf persons' assistance dogs, which may be allowed into the restaurant car at the Steward's discretion. However, every effort is made to serve meals at blind or deaf persons' seats within the normal seated accommodation.
Blind persons' guide dogs or deaf persons' assistance dogs are allowed on Sleeper services provided the blind or deaf person and dog are booked into single-cabin accommodation. The guide or assistance dog is conveyed free and no cleaning charge applied.
ScotRail allows dogs to accompany able-bodied passengers in Sleeper services subject to a charge for a heavy duty clean. The booking must be Standard Class with two people travelling together, otherwise a Solo supplement is payable for exclusive use of a twin-berth cabin.
Booking for all dogs travelling in Sleepers should be made at least 48 hours in advance.
Byelaw 16 allows the train company to refuse carriage or entry to any animal. If your dog or other animal causes a nuisance or inconvenience to other passengers you may be asked to remove it from the train or railway premises by the Train Company or Rail Service Company staff.
When dogs are carried in the guard's van/luggage van (other than those in a container) they must be secured with collar and chain and properly muzzled.

etchyed

gobnaitolunacy wrote: »

A contrast to the situation in the UK. I don't see people across the water dissuaded from train travel in their droves for fear of the hoards of unruly animals on board.

Indeed.

http://www.dogsontrains.com/

pervertedcoffee

etchyed wrote: »

Indeed.

http://www.dogsontrains.com/

Well that's my morning down the drain...

Can you tell I love dogs? :rolleyes:

etchyed

pervertedcoffee wrote: »

Well that's my morning down the drain...

Can you tell I love dogs? :rolleyes:

I lost half an hour to it yesterday. Tumblr blogs are dangerous.

Qualitymark

We've gone completely Mrs Bucket during the Celtic Tiger. It used to be you could bring dogs on the bus, but only if you brought them upstairs, and you could bring dogs on the train for short journeys; for longer journeys they had to go in the guard's van.

MurdyWurdy

Hilly Bill wrote: »

I think the dog would be a bit cleaner than some that have used the dart in the past.

Agreed, I watched a woman with a pram swigging out of a litre bottle of Bailey's piss herself on a dart. It was one of the saddest things I've ever seen. When I got off at my stop I told the guy in the station to call the guards but who knows if he did. I still think about that baby occasionally wondering what happened to him/her.

I'd rather have dogs then people like that on the dart!

Hilly Bill

Someone took a dump on platform 4 in Connolly 2 weeks ago.

foggy_lad

Hilly Bill wrote: »

Someone took a dump on platform 4 in Connolly 2 weeks ago.

Passenger or staff?

jackofalltrades

pervertedcoffee wrote: »

Also, that's why I brought up the canine good citizens test - it would keep the badly behaved owners with dogs out.

Once pet dogs are allowed, you're allowing all kinds. Irresponsible owners aren't going to care about any kind of tests that you bring in, and there's going to be no enforcement of it anyway.

Getting clothes covered in dog hair, isn't going to go down very well with the travelling public either.

Chris_5339762

This all reminds me of the numerous restaurants in Germany where dogs are allowed (infact to find them disallowed is rare). The owners go up to the tills and ask for a doggybowl full of water.

Mind you, they keep dogs properly in Germany, and don't allow them to wander out on the country roads getting in the way of cars like they do here. Honestly, I don't know why some people here get pets, they just allow them to roam randomly.

dowlingm

I think CIE's rules are probably completely arbitrary in genesis, but since changing them would probably draw scrutiny from all manner of interest groups not to mention the Equality Authority it's probably best to leave sleeping dogs, er... I'll get me coat.

pervertedcoffee

jackofalltrades wrote: »

Once pet dogs are allowed, you're allowing all kinds. Irresponsible owners aren't going to care about any kind of tests that you bring in, and there's going to be no enforcement of it anyway.

Getting clothes covered in dog hair, isn't going to go down very well with the travelling public either.

It's easily enforced if you do it the same way the student tickets are enforced. You bring your CGC Cert to the ticket office to get a pet pass the same way you bring your student ID for a student pass.

Well if dog hair is the worst of their worries...
People in the UK seem to have gotten over it as well (ref: dogsontrains.com)

jackofalltrades

pervertedcoffee wrote: »

It's easily enforced if you do it the same way the student tickets are enforced. You bring your CGC Cert to the ticket office to get a pet pass the same way you bring your student ID for a student pass.

I can't see IE staff trying to restrain someone for not having a pass for their dog, or the Gardaí ever going to a station to deal with it if the owner is uncooperative.

Well if dog hair is the worst of their worries...
People in the UK seem to have gotten over it as well (ref: dogsontrains.com)

Dog hair is a serious worry if you're allergic to it. And if your not cleaning it off you're clothes gets annoying. I've nothing against dogs, it's the overall standard of their owners that's the problem.

pervertedcoffee

jackofalltrades wrote: »

I can't see IE staff trying to restrain someone for not having a pass for their dog, or the Gardaí ever going to a station to deal with it if the owner is uncooperative.

I don't understand why not. Do you think they'll find them more intimidating if they have a dog? That probably sounds more argumentative than it's meant to, apologies, but I can't see how it's any different to enforcing anyone having any ticket and I'm curious as to why you think it would be.

jackofalltrades wrote: »

Dog hair is a serious worry if you're allergic to it. And if your not cleaning it off you're clothes gets annoying. I've nothing against dogs, it's the overall standard of their owners that's the problem.

Of course, as is peanuts, rubber (my housemate breaks out in horrendously painful welts when she comes into contact), certain washing powders and a multitude of other things that are allowed on the train/DART but we focus on dog hair?

As you say yourself affected commuters will probably come into contact with dog hair from dog owners who don't clean their clothes of dog hair anyway.

I know it's probably a huge leap of faith in common courtesy, but I would hope that generally if dog owners became aware that there was a passenger with dog allergies near by they would kindly move to the next carriage...

Off topic but my local vet is allergic to certain types dog hair! She's an amazing woman.