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Consultant 'refused abortion plea'

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    #212
    eireannBEAR
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,713 ✭✭✭eireannBEAR


    lynski wrote: »
    My problem with this case, and with Irish law and or medical practice, is that if a pregnant woman presents to hospital miscarrying and there is no chance that the baby will survive, at 5 wks or 35 wks, then she should be treated humanely. Being left in agony - and no amount of pain relief except epidural takes the pain of labor away - for 3 hrs or 3 days when you do not want to be is not humane.
    All women should be treated with respect and have the first say on their care; if a medical professional recommends a different route for reasons of better health they should take the advise or not if they want to. Women's bodies should be firstly our own; even when pregnant.
    This is not an issue of abortion or right to life, this baby, much wanted, was dead or dying, there was no way she could survive, her mother should have been allowed to choose to end her physical and mental torture. This is standard medical practice the world over for animals never mind humans.
    Catholic/irish/hindu/rastafarian should not come into it.

    most of ireland agree with this...what scares a lot of us is this case seems to be leading up to abortion on demand if the government take out the suicide loop hole every one will be happy...excluding a tiny minority of pro life/choicers!


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    #213
    Morag
    Registered Users Posts: 8,423 ✭✭✭Morag


    http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/courts/surgeon-denies-litany-of-errors-in-treatment-of-mum-who-died-28816782.html

    There is an inquest into another woman's maternal death this week.


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    #214
    Morag
    Registered Users Posts: 8,423 ✭✭✭Morag


    eireannBEAR wrote: »
    most of ireland agree with this...what scares a lot of us is this case seems to be leading up to abortion on demand if the government take out the suicide loop hole every one will be happy...excluding a tiny minority of pro life/choicers!


    What loop hole?
    How can you say there is a loop hole in the proposed legislation which the government has not even published yet?


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    #215
    mikom
    Closed Accounts Posts: 16,391 ✭✭✭✭mikom


    Gatling wrote: »
    Child mortality rates are pretty damn good here ,
    What ever way you calculate it ,

    I wouldn't like to be using Praveen Halappanavars calculator.
    Is there a button to add a wife mortality to a child mortality on it, do ya think?


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    #216
    Morag
    Registered Users Posts: 8,423 ✭✭✭Morag


    eireannBEAR wrote: »
    i am totally against abortion on demand and for people at risk of suicide,i am not sexist or catholic.
    i just dont agree with it. it offends me full stop.

    now in saying that have i no problem with terminations where the mothers life is at risk.

    What about women's health?

    Why should women like Michele Harte have to travel for an abortion?
    eireannBEAR wrote: »
    we need to invest our money in better sex education and making the pill a mainstay in mens wallets and womens handbags.

    We do need better sex ed and ideally free contraception but no contraception is 100%
    eireannBEAR wrote: »
    abortion on selfish grounds go against human nature it amazes me that people can fight for the right to abort their own children.

    Because they want to live, they want to remain healthy, they do not want to be parents.
    eireannBEAR wrote: »
    in my case i was a drugs addict i was in no position to get a girl pregnant but sending my gf to england never once entered my mind i will admit i cost the tax payer 2 years of welfare but now i have a good job,amazing son and perspective in life. if we can educated people and make them understand the joys of parent hood they will utterly oppose abortion.

    somen women tend to think fathers have no right on this issue that they dont have to live with it.
    well i had to give up everything partying,alone time,money and even SLEEP! but you know what when i look at my son i dont miss it for a second!

    i wish people understood what they were giving up...


    I am glad your child brought joy and focus to your life, but that is not the case for everyone.

    I have two kids, it would be dangerous to my mental health to try and have any more due to how sever the depression is which develops when I am pregnant and give birth. If I found I was pregnant again I would have to find the resources to travel to the UK for an abortion, I know what I would be giving up and I know the cost if I don't.


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    #217
    eireannBEAR
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,713 ✭✭✭eireannBEAR


    Morag wrote: »
    What about women's health?

    Why should women like Michele Harte have to travel for an abortion?



    We do need better sex ed and ideally free contraception but no contraception is 100%



    Because they want to live, they want to remain healthy, they do not want to be parents.




    I am glad your child brought joy and focus to your life, but that is not the case for everyone.

    I have two kids, it would be dangerous to my mental health to try and have any more due to how sever the depression is which develops when I am pregnant and give birth. If I found I was pregnant again I would have to find the resources to travel to the UK for an abortion, I know what I would be giving up and I know the cost if I don't.

    i would like to think as a responsible adult who already has two children that you might take more precautions when it comes to having another especially as you have health problems that you are already aware of.

    if that were to befall you and you resorted to abortion you should feel very ashamed indeed TBH. if you feel this way.. you have many options such as the pill,bar or coil etc,


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    #218
    mikom
    Closed Accounts Posts: 16,391 ✭✭✭✭mikom


    eireannBEAR wrote: »
    i am totally against abortion on demand and for people at risk of suicide,i am not sexist or catholic.
    i just dont agree with it. it offends me full stop.

    Oh well, if you are offended then that's a different story.......


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    #219
    Morag
    Registered Users Posts: 8,423 ✭✭✭Morag


    eireannBEAR wrote: »
    i would like to think as a responsible adult who already has two children that you might take more precautions when it comes to having another especially as you have health problems that you are already aware of.

    if that were to befall you and you resorted to abortion you should feel very ashamed indeed TBH. if you feel this way.. you have many options such as the pill,bar or coil etc,

    I am already using the best contraceptive there is, what makes you think I am not and that I am ignorant of my contraceptive options?

    But there there is always a risk there is no contraceptive which is 100%.

    If I was to become pregnant again despite mine and my drs very best efforts then I would not consider it shameful to what is best for my health and so that I can look after my exsisting children.


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    #220
    Ash.J.Williams
    Registered Users Posts: 20,937 ✭✭✭✭Ash.J.Williams


    Kenny Gofuk wrote: »
    Consultant 'refused abortion plea'

    08 April 2013
    A consultant has been accused of refusing an Indian woman's demands for an abortion as she miscarried on the grounds that it is "a Catholic country".

    While I have been following this story, I have had mixed feelings regarding the husband in question - however, don't get me wrong I'm extremely sorry for his loss.

    Is it just me, or does anyone else get the feeling he is now trying to cash in on this bigtime? He has got a lot of front!
    I'm sorry, but if the above statement is true, why was it that they did not travel to the UK for this to happen?

    Excuse my ignorance if you feel I have got the wrong end of this matter!
    I hope he does cash in and gets well paid too, State ineptitude killed his f**ing wife!


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    #221
    eireannBEAR
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,713 ✭✭✭eireannBEAR


    Morag wrote: »
    I am already using the best contraceptive there is, what makes you think I am not and that I am ignorant of my contraceptive options?

    But there there is always a risk there is no contraceptive which is 100%.

    If I was to become pregnant again despite mine and my drs very best efforts then I would not consider it shameful to what is best for my health and so that I can look after my exsisting children.

    have you considered having your tubes tide?

    I for one will be getting the snip when the time calls for it.

    morag we will not change each others mind on the subject and i dont think for a second that your a monster or bad person for your views as im sure i have many that would offend you also.

    so we will agree to disagree.


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    #222
    Morag
    Registered Users Posts: 8,423 ✭✭✭Morag


    eireannBEAR wrote: »
    have you considered having your tubes tide?

    Very hard to do in this 'catholic' country even with me not being catholic and even with that I know two women who still went on to have kids after they had their tubes clamped.

    But thankfully the contraceptive I am using is actually rated better then getting my tubes tied, but it is still not 100% and if anything goes wrong and I do end up pregnant again I have resigned myself to having to travel for an abortion.

    Many women have abortion plans or money put aside for a 'rainy day' if they can afford it.
    eireannBEAR wrote: »
    I for one will be getting the snip when the time calls for it.

    Good for you, it's an easier op then the one for women and men should take responsibility for their own fertility.
    eireannBEAR wrote: »
    morag we will not change each others mind on the subject and i dont think for a second that your a monster or bad person for your views as im sure i have many that would offend you also.

    so we will agree to disagree.

    Given my circumstances should I have to travel to the UK?


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    #223
    mikom
    Closed Accounts Posts: 16,391 ✭✭✭✭mikom


    eireannBEAR wrote: »

    I for one will be getting the snip when the time calls for it.

    Having the choice to do this is good, isn't it.

    Beware though.
    Getting the snip could offend some people.


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    #224
    eireannBEAR
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,713 ✭✭✭eireannBEAR


    do what you want morag.


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    #225
    Morag
    Registered Users Posts: 8,423 ✭✭✭Morag


    eireannBEAR wrote: »
    do what you want morag.

    I'd like to, I want to be able to have the healthcare options I may need available to me here in my own country.


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    #226
    mikom
    Closed Accounts Posts: 16,391 ✭✭✭✭mikom


    eireannBEAR wrote: »
    do what you want morag.

    That choice is not there.


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    #227
    eireannBEAR
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,713 ✭✭✭eireannBEAR


    mikom wrote: »
    That choice is not there.

    very lazy attempt at trolling my friend.


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    #228
    mikom
    Closed Accounts Posts: 16,391 ✭✭✭✭mikom


    eireannBEAR wrote: »
    very lazy attempt at trolling my friend.

    You know where the report button is.

    You have the choice to push it, if you wish............ pal.


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    #229
    ibarelycare
    Registered Users Posts: 58,456 ✭✭✭✭ibarelycare


    eireannBEAR wrote: »
    i would like to think as a responsible adult who already has two children that you might take more precautions when it comes to having another especially as you have health problems that you are already aware of.

    ,

    This is a bit hypocritical coming from someone who admitted to accidentally getting his girlfriend pregnant?


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    #230
    rainbow kirby
    Moderators, Regional Abroad Moderators Posts: 26,928 Mod ✭✭✭✭rainbow kirby


    eireannBEAR wrote: »
    have you considered having your tubes tide?
    Have you any idea how difficult it is to get this done in this country? Gynaes are extremely reluctant to do it unless women are well into their late 30s with large families.


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    #231
    eireannBEAR
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,713 ✭✭✭eireannBEAR


    mikom wrote: »
    You know where the report button is.

    You have the choice to push it, if you wish............ pal.

    im afraid you dont quite offend me enough. :D


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    #232
    wolfpawnat
    Registered Users Posts: 6,124 ✭✭✭wolfpawnat


    I don't suppose we could go back to posting about the subject of this thread in particular and leave the overall abortion debate to the several other threads dedicated to them on other forums?


    Tried Google news there. Very little new information on the inquiry. Anything new revealed this morning?


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    #233
    john.han
    Closed Accounts Posts: 258 ✭✭john.han


    wolfpawnat wrote: »
    I don't suppose we could go back to posting about the subject of this thread in particular and leave the overall abortion debate to the several other threads dedicated to them on other forums?


    Tried Google news there. Very little new information on the inquiry. Anything new revealed this morning?

    Despite yesterday denying any retrospecive entries in the medical notes, the hospital/hse now admit 8 retrospective entries.


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    #234
    wolfpawnat
    Registered Users Posts: 6,124 ✭✭✭wolfpawnat


    john.han wrote: »
    Despite yesterday denying any retrospecive entries in the medical notes, the hospital/hse now admit 8 retrospective entries.

    Ah retrospect! We screwed up, so lets add it in now!:rolleyes:

    In any other field to fiddle with official notes like that would mean severe consequences for all involved. I would love to know how many thousands of cases have been fiddled with. Because that is what is it, tampering.


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    #235
    eireannBEAR
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,713 ✭✭✭eireannBEAR


    wow guys if only you people would voice your support in public,maybe you would have your wish of an abortion on demand republic.

    if you really want this you must get off your couches. and speak up because excluding yahoo and internet forums the vast majority want an abortion free state.

    so i ask you do you want justice for savita or abortion on demand???


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    #236
    Nodin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 46,938 ✭✭✭✭Nodin


    eireannBEAR wrote: »
    wow guys if only you people would voice your support in public,maybe you would have your wish of an abortion on demand republic.

    if you really want this you must get off your couches. and speak up because excluding yahoo and internet forums the vast majority want an abortion free state.

    so i ask you do you want justice for savita or abortion on demand???

    They do? Far as I knew they'd voted for abortion in limited circumstances.


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    #237
    Seachmall
    Registered Users Posts: 7,041 ✭✭✭Seachmall


    eireannBEAR wrote: »
    now in saying that have i no problem with terminations where the mothers life is at risk.
    On what basis do you value the mother's life over the child's?

    You can't tell me they're both equal until the mother is at risk.

    abortion on selfish grounds go against human nature it amazes me that people can fight for the right to abort their own children.

    Killing someone else to save your own life is the pinnacle of selfishness.


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    #238
    Morag
    Registered Users Posts: 8,423 ✭✭✭Morag


    eireannBEAR wrote: »
    wow guys if only you people would voice your support in public,maybe you would have your wish of an abortion on demand republic.

    People have been.
    http://www.abortionrightscampaign.ie/
    eireannBEAR wrote: »
    if you really want this you must get off your couches. and speak up because excluding yahoo and internet forums the vast majority want an abortion free state.

    Being pro choice and pro abortion rights on grounds of health and life of women has been made very taboo in this country by extreme pro life groups.

    The recent polls show that the majority of Irish people agree with abortion to safe guard the health and life of women and in cases of rape, incest and fatal fetal abnormalities.

    eireannBEAR wrote: »
    so i ask you do you want justice for savita or abortion on demand???

    What makes you think those two things are opposed and that a person would have to choose one over the other?


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    #239
    rainbow kirby
    Moderators, Regional Abroad Moderators Posts: 26,928 Mod ✭✭✭✭rainbow kirby


    eireannBEAR wrote: »
    so i ask you do you want justice for savita or abortion on demand???
    Honestly? Both.


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    #240
    Stark
    Registered Users Posts: 20,964 ✭✭✭✭Stark


    eireannBEAR wrote: »
    in my case i was a drugs addict i was in no position to get a girl pregnant but sending my gf to england never once entered my mind i will admit i cost the tax payer 2 years of welfare but now i have a good job,amazing son and perspective in life. if we can educated people and make them understand the joys of parent hood they will utterly oppose abortion.

    somen women tend to think fathers have no right on this issue that they dont have to live with it.
    well i had to give up everything partying,alone time,money and even SLEEP! but you know what when i look at my son i dont miss it for a second!

    i wish people understood what they were giving up...

    Same arguments could be used against contraception. The State will pick up the tab for a couple of years. You don't know what you're missing out on and all that. But it's not for other people to choose when people become parents.


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    #241
    homerjay2005
    Registered Users Posts: 29,346 ✭✭✭✭homerjay2005


    Ash.J.Williams wrote: »
    I hope he does cash in and gets well paid too, State ineptitude killed his f**ing wife!

    thats some statement to make. have you access to the report and/or inquest that none of us have seen?

    right now, even the husband has said he does not know how she died. to say somebody killed her, is f8cking insane to be honest and just shows how much people have been caught up in this case since that original misleading headlines was printed.

    people should relax a while until the inquest delivers a verdict. i will repeat the question i asked earlier, is there any evidence yet to suggest that her abortion being done earlier, would 100% have saved her life as this appears to not have been clarifed yet...maybe it will in the coming days.


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