Building Control (Amendment) Regulations 2013

Chisler2

jiminho wrote: »

From RTE website, re: Min. Hogan interview:

Members of the Royal Institute of the Architects of Ireland have called for the deferral of new building regulations due to come into force tomorrow.

The regulations will increase the levels of accountability on professionals signing off on new buildings.

Councillors in rural areas have called on Minister for the Environment Phil Hogan to amend the regulations to facilitate rural self-builders who want to build on their own land.

The Department of the Environment said the new regulations are needed to ensure properties are safe and compliant with the regulations.

Speaking on RTÉ's Morning Ireland, Mr Hogan said there is nothing new in the regulations that prevent direct labour.

"The people who engage in direct labour or self-build will be able to continue to do so because there is no change in the act; in the statutory obligations under the Building Control Act 1990," he said.

The minister added that he is "expecting a professional to sign off on the work that it is actually done in accordance with the papers that are lodged and that it is up to a high standard ... that will cost somewhere between one and two thousand euro".

He said it is "a small cost to pay to make sure that things are done right for a home that might cost €100,000 or €150,000".

Mr Hogan said the new regulations were being brought in because of all the poor building standards that have been signed off by professionals, which resulted in places such as Priory Hall, unfinished estates and pyritic material in buildings.

The minister said he could not understand what he described as the "wild exaggeration" in relation to self-builds.

He said there is no change in the technical performance standards in respect of newly-finished homes.

I know there's been a lot of he said, she said, regs say yada-yada but it is bizarre that Hogan is so adamant in his reasoning. He has said time and time again that people who want to take the direct build route can still do so. I mean it's one thing to fudge the truth, it's another to flat out lie. I guess time will tell. Nothing's set in stone quite yet and who's to say there will be an amendment shortly after regardless of what comes to fruition tomorrow. Ahh to be Irish!!!

What the Minister said would be more persuasive had he quoted instances of "one-off" builds with the dangers and problems of the contract-build he cited.

Regarding his publicly-stated position, the saying "the devil is in the detail" comes to mind.

"Ahh to be Irish!!!" all right. My (American, and a Professor of Economics) husband's response last night at dinner when I was "going on" about S.I 9 and the worry it is creating for me (I am still awaiting planning!) asked with a sigh "Why do the Irish always take decisions against their own best interest?" A question we Gaels should ponder:o.

Hairy mellon

heres a tv clip from earlier with self-builder:


Self-Builder Amanda Gallagher on RTE One Morning Edition #BloodSweatandTears | BRegs Blog
http://bregsforum.wordpress.com/2014/02/28/self-builder-amanda-gallagher-on-rte-one-morning-edition-bloodsweatandtears/

here's minister earlier

RTÉ.ie Radio 28th Feb. ’14: Morning Ireland: Storm in a tea-cup? BC(A)R SI.9 | BRegs Blog
http://bregsforum.wordpress.com/2014/02/28/rte-ie-radio-28th-feb-14-morning-ireland-storm-in-a-tea-cup-bcar-si-9/

4Sticks

Kudos to you Mandy Gall you presented well there.

martinn123

Chisler2 wrote: »

Surely the legalities are being set by S.I.9. It's a change in "law". Dramatically-increased costs are inevitable. The person certifying must cover their (massively-increased!) insurance!!!!

Perhaps you could post details of your massively increased insurance quotation, when your policy renews.

mandy gall

4Sticks wrote: »

Kudos to you Mandy Gall you presented well there.

Thanks a mill. Just trying to protect my familys future. I hope we have the one we planned.

Chisler2

martinn123 wrote: »

Perhaps you could post details of your massively increased insurance quotation, when your policy renews.

There seems to be a misunderstanding, so apologies for my post's lack of clarity. I referred to the insurance cover any individual who takes the role of certifyer/Project Manager to a one-off build will have to take out after tomorrow.

My post refers to the feasibility of day-to-day operation of the S.I.9........the "who-does-what-where-and-how" of real life!

I am not entertaining any plans to be a "self-builder"!!!!

Chisler2

mandy gall wrote: »

Thanks a mill. Just trying to protect my familys future. I hope we have the one we planned.

Well done Mandy - you made perfect sense; he came across as weak and reading from a script. Good stuff.

mandy gall

Chisler2 wrote: »

Well done Mandy - you made perfect sense; he came across as weak and reading from a script. Good stuff.

Sure hes as weak as a kitten
him and the big bad wolf phil trying to pull the wool over our eyes. Does he see STUPID written on my head??

jiminho

mandy gall wrote: »

Sure hes as weak as a kitten
him and the big bad wolf phil trying to pull the wool over our eyes. Does he see STUPID written on my head??

It's the Irish Government. Condescension is their middle name!!!

martinn123

Chisler2 wrote: »

There seems to be a misunderstanding, so apologies for my post's lack of clarity. I referred to the insurance cover any individual who takes the role of certifyer/Project Manager to a one-off build will have to take out after tomorrow.

My post refers to the feasibility of day-to-day operation of the S.I.9........the "who-does-what-where-and-how" of real life!

I am not entertaining any plans to be a "self-builder"!!!!

There are many posters on this thread, who do not actually have a dog in this fight, it's beginning to collapse in on itself, as 4sticks said elsewhere,

+1 on the TV appearance by Mandy, well done.

scwazrh

Am I right in understanding that a simple explanation of the new regs is -

1) If under 40 sqm extension or renovation , nothing changes.
2) anything over 40 sqm extension or a new build needs to be certified by either an architect or engineer.

4Sticks

Essentially yes. All works must comply with building regulations so even renovation works and or extension works of less than 40m2 should be certified as before.

scwazrh

So is it right to say that the only people these changes will affect are the people who wanted to build without engaging a professional to oversee the work?

jiminho

scwazrh wrote: »

So is it right to say that the only people these changes will affect are the people who wanted to build without engaging a professional to oversee the work?

Not really. There will be an increased cost for every method of build due to the increased professional costs. So it effects everyone.

DOCARCH

Goodbye old....

DOCARCH

....hello (brave) new world (of building control)!

4Sticks

scwazrh wrote: »

So is it right to say that the only people these changes will affect are the people who wanted to build without engaging a professional to oversee the work?

That is way too simple. Many are affected and in different ways which you will see if you read back through the thread.

Chisler2

martinn123 wrote: »

There are many posters on this thread, who do not actually have a dog in this fight, it's beginning to collapse in on itself, as 4sticks said elsewhere,


Explain! My post "collapses" nothing. Following the suggestion of a veteran contributor that the thread mutate to addressing consequences of the Statute post-1st March, I posted on a possible unintended consequence of S.I 9 building control regulations (Amendment), which is the subject of this thread.

On what do you base your assumption that I am not affected by an issue which I spend time educating myself about and contributing on, on an online forum - in your words, "have a dog in this fight"?

4Sticks

The West is Awake !

Happyman42

ON this auspicious day I would like to remind everbody:

A self builder built The Ark,
and professionals built The Titanic.

That is all.

mandy gall

Wow hope you have no copyright on tht x

4Sticks

The Ark is fictional. Titanic was crashed.
Self builders need professionals today the same as they did yesterday.

Happyman42

4Sticks wrote: »

The Ark is fictional.

And you are a HEATHEN as well!!

4Sticks

I have sinned

Hairy mellon

Preliminary estimates suggest €8k extra per house for professional fees

For self builders estimates add €20k om top for contractor

€600m this year with €500m recurring cost per annum

Everyone affected- sme's, license applications, small qualifying ressie, non residential, retail, givernment calital builds, schools, hospitals

kkelliher

As i posted elsewhere i cannot understand how people believe it would be possible to have a system where a professional builder would have go follow one system and a non professional builder could follow a lesser system?

Given most people already have no chance of building their own home due to local needs planning regulations this is only going to impact a very small % of properties built every year and in the main those who can get a free site from family and wish to built it themselves.

Overall given the general poor quality of building that has being carried out over the last 10 years and although its not a perfect system surly its a step in the right direction?

martinn123

Chisler2 wrote: »

martinn123 wrote: »

There are many posters on this thread, who do not actually have a dog in this fight, it's beginning to collapse in on itself, as 4sticks said elsewhere,

Chisler2 wrote:

Explain! My post "collapses" nothing. Following the suggestion of a veteran contributor that the thread mutate to addressing consequences of the Statute post-1st March, I posted on a possible unintended consequence of S.I 9 building control regulations (Amendment), which is the subject of this thread.

On what do you base your assumption that I am not affected by an issue which I spend time educating myself about and contributing on, on an online forum - in your words, "have a dog in this fight"?

My post which uses the phrase...many posters....is a reflection on the way the thread has developed in recent weeks, rather that a direct attack on your post.
However you did use the phrase...massively increased Fees... and I did query if you had been quoted an increased premium.

No where so far, to my recollection has anyone reported actual increases in Premiums, I would be interested to hear from anyone who has.

The reference to ''dog in the fight'' reflects the fact that many posters are contributing, not from a personal perspective but from a hysterical reaction to comments some of which are ill-founded.

The ''collapse'' refers to the fact that the Thread has covered the same ground again, again, and again.

Anyway we are where we are.

BryanF

Chisler2 wrote: »

On what do you base your assumption that I am not affected by an issue which I spend time educating myself about and contributing on, on an online forum - in your words, "have a dog in this fight"?

Chisler please try to stay on track: discuss the facts about BCA thanks

martinn123 wrote: »

Thread has covered the same ground again, again, and again.

Martin, play nice

Hairy mellon

He profession of architectural technician mow effectively is redundant

They follow in the footsteps of other critical professions that have fallen by the wayside in recent years - clerk of works for one. The clerk of works was essentially a master builder, supremely highly qualified frequently having worked their way up he trades ladder.

General quality of builds in the past 25 years have suffered as a result. How bad does our buildig quality need to become before he construction indistry pushes back against this sort of nonsensical red tape?

atech

Irish Self Builder wrote: »

March 1-2014 Building Control Regulations
Please read this
This is the text of an email received today (name and address removed) by <snip>

.............
Yet my qualification (a Bsc in Contraction Technology) is not considered sufficient to be registered as an architect, an engineer or a surveyor
...............

They'd be better off on a maternity ward with a qualification like that.