Building Control (Amendment) Regulations 2013

4Sticks

jiminho wrote: »

Quick qs tho. I'm a civil engineer, is there anything stopping me from designing, certifying and subcontracting my one off home? Certifying is the tricky part I guess but do these three items need to be completed by a third party? What's stopping me from getting certified in the different denominations like a BER assessor.

Interesting - a BER assessor would be barred by the SEAI Code of Practice from issuing a BER cert on their own home and morally too so should you ( sorry not what you wish to hear - I wouldn't ).

But I cannot see anything in SI 9 that would stop you doing the cetifying

shane6977

jiminho wrote: »

Woho, this thread has come along the last month. I've tbh only really flicked thru the regulations and my first thought of them is that they aren't very definitive and almost seem like a work in progress.

Quick qs tho. I'm a civil engineer, is there anything stopping me from designing, certifying and subcontracting my one off home? Certifying is the tricky part I guess but do these three items need to be completed by a third party? What's stopping me from getting certified in the different denominations like a BER assessor. I see the big one and that is to hire a competent builder (with at least 3 years experience). My goal in life has always been to build my own home with me being heavily involved in the process, i.e being contractor and PM, buying own materials, etc. These regulations seem to suck the fun out of it. Is there any leeway for certain professions? I mean I do this for a living after all.

If you are a chartered engineer there is nothing in SI 9 or the Code of Practise AFAIK to stop you from nominating yourself as Design Certifier and Assigned Certifier. You will however, have to appoint a competent builder.

Hairy mellon

shane6977 wrote: »

If you are a chartered engineer there is nothing in SI 9 or the Code of Practise AFAIK to stop you from nominating yourself as Design Certifier and Assigned Certifier. You will however, have to appoint a competent builder.

+1

recent minister's statement in dail confirms this


Political Q+A: Mister Hogan suggests Builder separate appointment: BC(A)R SI.9 | BRegs Blog
http://bregsforum.wordpress.com/2014/02/25/political-qa-mister-hogan-suggests-builder-is-now-owner-bcar-si-9/

4Sticks

Well it does clarify the matter. Not in the way a self builder would wish granted but no doubt remains at least.

sydthebeat

Just to amplify what hairy mellon says above


straight from the horses mouth... so to speak....

phil hogan wrote:

The owner will be responsible for ensuring that they appoint a competent builder – a register of builders, contractors and tradespersons known as the Construction Industry Register Ireland (CIRI) will be established on a voluntary basis for this purpose on or before 1 March 2014 and placed on a statutory footing by 2015 – and that they employ a competent registered professional to undertake the roles of designer and assigned certifier.

jiminho

Thank you Hairy Lemon for that. So could i go to my Local Council with the following:

Foundation contractor: Foundation Ltd.
Blockwork contractor: Blockwork Ltd.
Electrical contractor: Electrical Ltd.
etc..

So i may not have a "General" contractor/builder but the above are all reputable and have the 3 years experience required. Is the one liner presented in the regulations all encompassing, in that Joe Blogs the owner can design it but all construction responsibilities have to be handed over to the builder in a similar style to the American/Canadian development lots/estates?

4Sticks

No . You have to appoint a competent builder. Singular.

sydthebeat

jiminho wrote: »

Thank you Hairy Lemon for that. So could i go to my Local Council with the following:

Foundation contractor: Foundation Ltd.
Blockwork contractor: Blockwork Ltd.
Electrical contractor: Electrical Ltd.
etc..

So i may not have a "General" contractor/builder but the above are all reputable and have the 3 years experience required. Is the one liner presented in the regulations all encompassing, in that Joe Blogs the owner can design it but all construction responsibilities have to be handed over to the builder in a similar style to the American/Canadian development lots/estates?

joe bloggs the owner CANNOT design compliance with building regs.

Joe bloggs owner MUST engage a competent builder to undertake the responsibilities and sign certification.

Once said builder is happy to let Joe Bloggs owner project manage the build... so be it.

jiminho

4Sticks wrote: »

No . You have to appoint a competent builder. Singular.

So for people like myself who wanted to sub-contract out the work, buy own materials etc. now face more than the 10% increase being suggested and more like up to 30% when general contractor and material mark-up come into play. That's a bit depressing.

jiminho

sydthebeat wrote: »

joe bloggs the owner CANNOT design compliance with building regs.

Joe bloggs owner MUST engage a competent builder to undertake the responsibilities and sign certification.

Once said builder is happy to let Joe Bloggs owner project manage the build... so be it.

Well i meant Joe "Engineer" Bloggs. Are we still bound by the same restrictions?

4Sticks

jiminho wrote: »

So for people like myself who wanted to sub-contract out the work, buy own materials etc. now face more than the 10% increase being suggested and more like up to 30% when general contractor and material mark-up come into play. That's a bit depressing.

We have local elections this May.
Don't get depressed.
Get evil.

4Sticks

jiminho wrote: »

Woho, this thread has come along the last month. I've tbh only really flicked thru

Please do more than flick through before posting any more queries. Out of courtesy to others.

Hairy mellon

4Sticks wrote: »

We have local elections this May.
Don't get depressed.
Get evil.

98 days to local elections tic toc

This whole issue only kicks off on 1st march

Watch the wheels come off

Riai cpd reckon 95% architects mot ready for si9

75% expect significant disruption

Let the implementation fun begin

Happyman42

Anybody hear the guy on Joe Duffy today, couldn't listen to it properly, but he seemed to be saying that the Dept.(that's the bit I'm unsure of, it it was the dept he was talking to.) told him to appoint himself as builder?

4Sticks

you can listen to it here ( I have not done so myself)

http://www.rte.ie/radio/utils/radioplayer/rteradioweb.html#!rii=9%3A20532911%3A53%3A25%2D02%2D2014%3A

Gumbo

jiminho wrote: »

So for people like myself who wanted to sub-contract out the work, buy own materials etc. now face more than the 10% increase being suggested and more like up to 30% when general contractor and material mark-up come into play. That's a bit depressing.

They are by their very nature sub contractors. You need to appoint a parent contractor who is responsible for the collection of these sub contractors.

mandy gall

Happyman42 wrote: »

Anybody hear the guy on Joe Duffy today, couldn't listen to it properly, but he seemed to be saying that the Dept.(that's the bit I'm unsure of, it it was the dept he was talking to.) told him to appoint himself as builder?

Yes he was given more misinformation! More on rte this week coming

jiminho

Happyman42 wrote: »

Anybody hear the guy on Joe Duffy today, couldn't listen to it properly, but he seemed to be saying that the Dept.(that's the bit I'm unsure of, it it was the dept he was talking to.) told him to appoint himself as builder?

Wish i was living in Ireland to listen to some of these radio conversations, sound very interesting. I may sound kinda liberal but it should be our rite to build our own home. Most self build homes i can imagine are above standard. I can understand certifications and compliance's, we all want to be safe and for our homes to last forever but why not just submit your drawings to a certifier at pre-construction stage, make any necessary changes, and then get the certifier to come out post-construction to make sure everything's ok, and if not, it's the owners responsibility.

mandy gall

jiminho wrote: »

Wish i was living in Ireland to listen to some of these radio conversations, sound very interesting. I may sound kinda liberal but it should be our rite to build our own home. Most self build homes i can imagine are above standard. I can understand certifications and compliance's, we all want to be safe and for our homes to last forever but why not just submit your drawings to a certifier at pre-construction stage, make any necessary changes, and then get the certifier to come out post-construction to make sure everything's ok, and if not, it's the owners responsibility.

Available on rte radio website joe duffy show podcast. You are on the button - it is a right to build whether its a self build or contractor route - no government can stop this.

Hairy mellon

Happyman42 wrote: »

Anybody hear the guy on Joe Duffy today, couldn't listen to it properly, but he seemed to be saying that the Dept.(that's the bit I'm unsure of, it it was the dept he was talking to.) told him to appoint himself as builder?

The department is contradicting itself and si9

The completion cert for the builder states "must be signed by a principal or director of a building firm"

In addition minister hogan has recently done a 180degree uturn on this and now is stating a separate builder must be appointed

Keynote speaker at riai cpd on monday (500 present) stated self building mo longermpossible after 1st march

Read code of practice is very clear. Separate appointment of competent builder. No mention of owner doing role.

Joe duffy asked "will department go down to high court with you?" to caller

In uk last week incentives were introduced for self builders....lol

Hairy mellon

minister hogan:


Political Q+A: Mister Hogan suggests Builder separate appointment: BC(A)R SI.9 | BRegs Blog
http://bregsforum.wordpress.com/2014/02/25/political-qa-mister-hogan-suggests-builder-is-now-owner-bcar-si-9/

also self builders complain to europe:

Self-Builders escalate to Europe: BC(A)R SI.9 | BRegs Blog
http://bregsforum.wordpress.com/2014/02/25/self-builders-escalate-to-europe-bcar-si-9/

BryanF

jiminho wrote: »

Well i meant Joe "Engineer" Bloggs. Are we still bound by the same restrictions?

take a break to gather your thoughts

jiminho

BryanF wrote: »

take a break to gather your thoughts

Well should we?

Villain

I haven't read the entire so apologies if I am going over old ground but I had a few people say to me that self builds can't be done any more and I'm lucky I completed my last year. However from reading http://localgov.ie/en/link-type/bcms it states that

12. Can I build my own house myself or by direct labour?
Yes. You may appoint yourself as the builder and sign the Certificate of compliance (Undertaking by Builder). As the builder, you are responsible for compliance with the Building Regulations. You must sign the Certificate of Compliance on Completion and you must also appoint an Assigned Certifier to inspect the works during construction.

Thats very clear to me and self builds can continue as usual?

4Sticks

Villain wrote: »

I haven't read the entire so apologies if I am going over old ground but



Thats very clear to me and self builds can continue as usual?

Thanks for clearing that up for us all.

DOCARCH

Villain wrote: »

I haven't read the entire so apologies if I am going over old ground but I had a few people say to me that self builds can't be done any more and I'm lucky I completed my last year. However from reading http://localgov.ie/en/link-type/bcms it states that



Thats very clear to me and self builds can continue as usual?

Yeah...but...no. That is misinformation.

You can't believe everything the Government tells you! :rolleyes:

Shambles and pharce is all I can say!

sydthebeat

Villain wrote: »

I haven't read the entire so apologies if I am going over old ground but I had a few people say to me that self builds can't be done any more and I'm lucky I completed my last year. However from reading http://localgov.ie/en/link-type/bcms it states that

Thats very clear to me and self builds can continue as usual?

Did you read the rest of that paragraph? ??

Villain

sydthebeat wrote: »

Did you read the rest of that paragraph? ??

I did and I took it as either or scenario?

Are people saying the localgov interpretation is incorrect?

sydthebeat

Villain wrote: »

I did and I took it as either or scenario?

Are people saying the localgov interpretation is incorrect?

There is misinformation and contradictions all over the place.

Typical Irish legislatIon.

The doe tells people to disregard the wording and fire ahead as normal. ..... what a great shower they are altogether.

Hairy mellon

Localgov.ie is now offline....