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Doctors reject abortion motions

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    #62
    whatdoicare
    Registered Users Posts: 2,398 ✭✭✭whatdoicare


    Paramite Pie wrote: »
    In some parts of the world, doctors have gotten excommunicated for carrying out abortions, even on teenage rape victims. I can't comprehend such heartless opposition.

    Well, some doctors are under the impression that that will happen to them here even if the foetus is unviable and we need to clarify in legislation what exactly they can and can't do.
    When is it against the law to intervene and when is it illegal not to.

    Don't forget, a huge amount of doctors in our system are not from Ireland and they are being left to decide themselves what they think the rules are and Irish doctors are unable to without a doubt say otherwise and are turning to their own beliefs for guidance.

    I can't comprehend myself why rape victims in Ireland are forced to continue with a pregnancy, why my maternity hospital won't give me a scan before 20 weeks in case it encourages me to abort my foetus, why an unviable foetus is untouchable until it's last heart beat no matter what the health of the mother - none of this makes sense to me.

    As a mother my rights to choose what happens to me and my own body are taken from me from the very moment of conception- this is a very scary reality.


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    #63
    otto_26
    Registered Users Posts: 518 ✭✭✭otto_26


    missingtime wrote: »
    The "Abortions on demand" excuse sickens me as well. I mean do they all think that women are sluts or something. And even if they are sluts, its their decision to go an do something like that. Clueless decision.

    How does the "Abortions on demand" excuse sicken you? Do you think Irish women are any different to British women?

    If I want to walk up to someone on the street and murder them its my decision to go do something like that.. For people to tell me I'm wrong.... Clueless decisions...:rolleyes:


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    #64
    volauvent
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 35 ✭volauvent


    oppenheimer1 wrote: »
    . Doctors have to be members of the IMO, its not a choice.
    Wrong. Loads of doctors are not in the IMO. The old ones have all the money and are the only ones who can afford to pay 1000-1200 a year for the privilege.


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    #65
    Nodin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 46,938 ✭✭✭✭Nodin


    otto_26 wrote: »
    How does the "Abortions on demand" excuse sicken you? Do you think Irish women are any different to British women?

    If I want to walk up to someone on the street and murder them its my decision to go do something like that.. For people to tell me I'm wrong.... Clueless decisions...:rolleyes:


    jaysus, you're a terrible tempramental lad.


    You missed this, btw....
    http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=84006484&postcount=58


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    #66
    otto_26
    Registered Users Posts: 518 ✭✭✭otto_26


    Nodin wrote: »
    How so?

    How poster describes people with views that are different to their own..


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    #67
    Turtyturd
    Registered Users Posts: 28,395 ✭✭✭✭Turtyturd


    otto_26 wrote: »

    If I want to walk up to someone on the street and murder them its my decision to go do something like that.. For people to tell me I'm wrong.... Clueless decisions...:rolleyes:

    That's not comparable to abortion though.


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    #68
    otto_26
    Registered Users Posts: 518 ✭✭✭otto_26


    Nodin wrote: »
    jaysus, you're a terrible tempramental lad.


    You missed this, btw....
    http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=84006484&postcount=58

    O I know I am.... Because my beliefs are not in line with yours very temperamental :rolleyes:


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    #69
    otto_26
    Registered Users Posts: 518 ✭✭✭otto_26


    Turtyturd wrote: »
    That's not comparable to abortion though.

    In your opinion


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    #70
    Nodin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 46,938 ✭✭✭✭Nodin


    volauvent wrote: »
    Wrong. Loads of doctors are not in the IMO. The old ones have all the money and are the only ones who can afford to pay 1000-1200 a year for the privilege.


    Its actually a good bit more afaik.


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    #71
    oppenheimer1
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,084 ✭✭✭oppenheimer1


    volauvent wrote: »
    Wrong. Loads of doctors are not in the IMO. The old ones have all the money and are the only ones who can afford to pay 1000-1200 a year for the privilege.

    Apologies, I mixed up their responsibilities with the medical council.


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    #72
    Scruffles
    Registered Users Posts: 955 ✭✭✭Scruffles


    these fossils need to get with the program and stop using religeon to dictate the law.
    its very very wrong that irish women have got to come over here,or another country to have an abortion,even moreso wrong when it has happened through rape or taking advantage of someones lack of mental capacity.
    women who have made their mind up about abortion will usualy be in mental distress, it shoud be made as less distressing for them as possible not make them go to another country whilst portraying them as a bunch of sluts/whores.

    am not seeing a anti women element here,am seeing a religeous bias though,no law shoud be influenced by a faith/belief.


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    #73
    Nodin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 46,938 ✭✭✭✭Nodin


    otto_26 wrote: »
    O I know I am.... Because my beliefs are not in line with yours very temperamental :rolleyes:

    yep.

    Why does yer mans comment say more about him?


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    #74
    Morag
    Registered Users Posts: 8,423 ✭✭✭Morag


    Nodin wrote: »
    It's really hard to fathom how somebody could have a problem with that.

    I know it's not like a motion was proposed to allow for the prescribing of the the abortion pill by GPs.


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    #75
    Turtyturd
    Registered Users Posts: 28,395 ✭✭✭✭Turtyturd


    otto_26 wrote: »
    In your opinion

    I would have thought in the opinion of anyone with a bit of common sense.:rolleyes:


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    #76
    Nodin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 46,938 ✭✭✭✭Nodin


    Morag wrote: »
    I know it's not like a motion was proposed to allow for the prescribing of the the abortion pill by GPs.

    ...or for the dread "abortion on demand".....

    I mean the one where the foetus is non-viable, ffs....heads out of the holes there lads and lassies.


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    #77
    whatdoicare
    Registered Users Posts: 2,398 ✭✭✭whatdoicare


    Pompey Magnus wrote: »
    The record for survival of premature birth is 21 weeks and 5 days, well before when it would be deemed "viable". Is there a specific reason why, if her mother died whilst in medical care, this child could not survive the operation to remove it?

    The baby was 17 weeks and the mother was left open to infection for 3 days as her cervix was dilated (which killed her) while the doctors delayed treatment waiting for the foetus' heartbeat to stop. The treatment should have been an abortion but doctors where under the impression that it was against the law to do so. Both mother and baby died.


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    #78
    otto_26
    Registered Users Posts: 518 ✭✭✭otto_26


    Turtyturd wrote: »
    I would have thought in the opinion of anyone with a bit of common sense.:rolleyes:

    Like people who think abortion is a cure for mental health illness? :rolleyes:


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    #79
    otto_26
    Registered Users Posts: 518 ✭✭✭otto_26


    Nodin wrote: »
    yep.

    Why does yer mans comment say more about him?

    How poster describes people with views that are different to his/her own..


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    #80
    Nodin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 46,938 ✭✭✭✭Nodin


    otto_26 wrote: »
    How poster describes people with views that are different to his/her own..

    Their views aren't the problem. Its that they'd force a woman to carry through with a pregnancy after they'd been raped/raped incestously.


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    #81
    Pompey Magnus
    Registered Users Posts: 5,406 ✭✭✭Pompey Magnus


    whatdoicare wrote: »
    The baby was 17 weeks and the mother was left open to infection for 3 days as her cervix was dilated (which killed her) while the doctors delayed treatment waiting for the foetus' heartbeat to stop. The treatment should have been an abortion but doctors where under the impression that it was against the law to do so. Both mother and baby died.

    I wasn't referring to the Savita case, just was a little confused when you said that a premature baby cannot survive before the "viable" 24 week stage if the mother should die considering they can survive in other circumstances well before this. I don't see why they couldn't given adequate and timely medical intervention.


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    #82
    Turtyturd
    Registered Users Posts: 28,395 ✭✭✭✭Turtyturd


    otto_26 wrote: »
    Like people who think abortion is a cure for mental health illness? :rolleyes:

    Of course it's not a cure, but forcing someone to go through with a pregnancy which is a result of rape is going to create a lot of mental health issues.


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    #83
    Morag
    Registered Users Posts: 8,423 ✭✭✭Morag


    Doctors for choice have said that crises pregnancy can be in indicator for mental health issues and the lack of choice and the lack of ease to access to services can add further stress to the mental health of women.

    http://www.nwci.ie/download/pdf/abortion_and_suicide.pdf
    Unwanted pregnancy is the relevant risk factor;
    Non directive counselling is best practice. Risk management requires
    access to services.

    Low income, young age, inability to travel are particular risks

    Restriction of access to abortion increases suicide risk

    Choice reduces suicide risk

    http://www.nwci.ie/news/2013/03/12/abortion-the-lives-and-health-of-women/


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    #84
    whatdoicare
    Registered Users Posts: 2,398 ✭✭✭whatdoicare


    Pompey Magnus wrote: »
    I wasn't referring to the Savita case, just was a little confused when you said that a premature baby cannot survive before the "viable" 24 week stage if the mother should die considering they can survive in other circumstances well before this. I don't see why they couldn't given adequate and timely medical intervention.

    Actually, what I said was that doctors consider 24 weeks the cut off and are unlikely to provide medical intervention to keep a baby before that alive through medical intervention as the foetus is just too underdeveloped at that stage.

    It is only in the 24th week that the babies bronchi in the lungs develop - (basically the baby would not be able to breath outside the womb at this stage), the organs are developed, the head finally is in proportion to it's body and it's eyes are nearly developed. This is also the time when the baby develops body fat, previous to this the baby is basically loose transparent skin and bone with underdeveloped organs and no lungs.


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    #85
    otto_26
    Registered Users Posts: 518 ✭✭✭otto_26


    Nodin wrote: »
    Their views aren't the problem. Its that they'd force a woman to carry through with a pregnancy after they'd been raped/raped incestously.

    Like I said his post says more about him than them


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    #86
    otto_26
    Registered Users Posts: 518 ✭✭✭otto_26


    Turtyturd wrote: »
    Of course it's not a cure, but forcing someone to go through with a pregnancy which is a result of rape is going to create a lot of mental health issues.

    Exactly abortion isn't the cure


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    #87
    Turtyturd
    Registered Users Posts: 28,395 ✭✭✭✭Turtyturd


    otto_26 wrote: »
    Exactly abortion isn't the cure

    You are the only one claiming it is, I think you don't even know what you're arguing.


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    #88
    PopePalpatine
    Registered Users Posts: 11,849 ✭✭✭✭PopePalpatine


    To those who oppose abortion in the case of fatal foetal abnormality - would you force a woman to give birth to a baby with anencephaly? A foetus which develops anencephaly is little more than a corpse which isn't decaying.


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    #89
    Pride Fighter
    Registered Users Posts: 5,729 ✭✭✭Pride Fighter


    The IMO are a bunch of corrupt, misogynistic bigots. They are a discredited organisation and the doctors need a new vehicle to represent them.
    oppenheimer1 wrote: »
    If you're going to make such a big claim please give us examples of corruption, misogyny and bigotry, thanks.

    Will do.

    It is corrupt as it has recently been revealed that it's board members (board members are supposed to voluntarily serve on a board or get legitimate expenses) are getting excessive payments. Board members get one quarter the salary of the IMO's CEO.

    They are misogynistic bigots as they are anti-women as proven by how they voted on the motions that would give them control over their own bodies.


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    #90
    King of Kings
    Registered Users Posts: 1,695 ✭✭✭King of Kings


    god forbid we give people the chance to voice an opinion.:rolleyes:

    I mean somebody asked a question and now the liberals don't like the answer...
    you either value an opinion or you don't.

    If you don't - that's fine - but come clean and admit you don't believe in free expression.

    Pride Fighter wrote: »
    The IMO are a bunch of corrupt, misogynistic bigots. They are a discredited organisation and the doctors need a new vehicle to represent them.

    i see you know "things" - well there is a bar needing propping up somewhere:pac:
    Pride Fighter wrote: »

    They are misogynistic bigots as they are anti-women as proven by how they voted on the motions that would give them control over their own bodies.

    I know one female member of the IMO and guess what she voted against the motions.
    You see it's not a gender issue as you making it out - many women are against abortion just as many men for pro-choice.
    Your argument is flawed.


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    #91
    Turtyturd
    Registered Users Posts: 28,395 ✭✭✭✭Turtyturd


    King of Kings wrote: »
    god forbid we give people the chance to voice an opinion.:rolleyes:

    I mean somebody asked a question and now the liberals don't like the answer...
    you either value an opinion or you don't.

    If you don't - that's fine - but come clean and admit you don't believe in free expression.




    i see you know "things" - well there is a bar needing propping up somewhere:pac:

    Unless your sig is taking the p*ss your opinions can't be taken seriously. :pac:


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