Are You Having A Laugh? Comedy and Christianity

IT-Guy

Just watching this on BBC now, presented by Anne Widdecombe. I'm a little bit in awe of how obtuse a person can be in deliberately missing a joke. She's dissecting the humor of comedy clips and movies and saying it ain't funny to use the life and death of JC as comedic material, all spoken with the devout belief and reverence as if JCs divinity was a confirmed fact. As the quote goes, “Explaining a joke is like dissecting a frog. You understand it better but the frog dies in the process.”

Her idea of what constitutes appropriate Xtian humor so far leaves a lot to be desired, depictions of people and animals defecating in very old sacred texts?

Raises the question why some Xtians believe their religion should be above any satire or parody? To me it's simply because someone taking an unproved and unprovable belief as fact is ripe material for taking the piss and happens in all walks of life.

Turtwig

In before the yeah, but would they dare mock something like Islam comment.

IT-Guy

Jernal wrote: »

In before the yeah, but would they dare mock something like Islam comment.

Was covered, most of the answers from the comedians were of course we wouldn't do the same with Islam, we haven't enough knowledge about it and aren't sure if the target audience do either for the joke to be understood. Hasn't stopped a few writers from coming up with comedies based around Muslim families, the only one mentioned was Citizen Khan which I'd never seen before.

Galvasean

IT-Guy wrote: »

Raises the question why some Xtians believe their religion should be above any satire or parody?

Insecurity. If they were confident in their beliefs they wouldn't get 'offended' by people taking the mick and try to silence said critiques.

Nodin

IT-Guy wrote: »

Was covered, most of the answers from the comedians were of course we wouldn't do the same with Islam, we haven't enough knowledge about it and aren't sure if the target audience do either for the joke to be understood. Hasn't stopped a few writers from coming up with comedies based around Muslim families, the only one mentioned was Citizen Khan which I'd never seen before.

There's a canadian one as well, I think.

robindch

IT-Guy wrote: »

Just watching this on BBC now, presented by Anne Widdecombe. I'm a little bit in awe of how obtuse a person can be in deliberately missing a joke. She's dissecting the humor of comedy clips and movies and saying it ain't funny to use the life and death of JC as comedic material [... ]

Well, now I understand the "WTF Widdecombe??" facebook update from a friend of mine late last night.

The bold Anne can do many things, but dig ironic jokes isn't one of them.

keane2097

IT-Guy wrote: »

Was covered, most of the answers from the comedians were of course we wouldn't do the same with Islam, we haven't enough knowledge about it and aren't sure if the target audience do either for the joke to be understood. Hasn't stopped a few writers from coming up with comedies based around Muslim families, the only one mentioned was Citizen Khan which I'd never seen before.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6YA5UdVhhsI

IT-Guy

robindch wrote: »

Well, now I understand the "WTF Widdecombe??" facebook update from a friend of mine late last night.

The bold Anne can do many things, but dig ironic jokes isn't one of them.

Yup, I had a few similar moments myself watching the show. I haven't watched or listened to Ann Widdecombe before but reading up on her on Wikipedia, there's an interesting quote from her on leaving the CoE and becoming a Catholic:

"I left the Church of England because there was a huge bundle of straw. The ordination of women was the last straw, but it was only one of many. For years I had been disillusioned by the Church of England's compromising on everything. The Catholic Church doesn't care if something is unpopular."

So things progress, old uncompromising ways generally tend to get left behind but instead of changing and accepting this, she decides to join a more 'hardcore' organisation? Reminds me of the Billy Connolly quip about the people who settled Scotland, having first settled in England, decided to move north because someone knew of a place that was colder and wetter

Cork Boy

IT-Guy wrote: »

"I left the Church of England because there was a huge bundle of straw. The ordination of women was the last straw, but it was only one of many. For years I had been disillusioned by the Church of England's compromising on everything. The Catholic Church doesn't care if something is unpopular."

If more 'catholics' were like her (i.e., left a church that they don't agree with) we'd be in a much better place. At least she has the courage of her convictions.

Cork Boy

Cork Boy wrote: »

If more 'catholics' were like her (i.e., left a church that they don't agree with) we'd be in a much better place. At least she has the courage of her convictions.

I remember hearing about someone else who converted to catholicism and then started giving out that they don't ordain women
Dafuq did you join it for, so?!

Sarky

Christianity can't really do humor. Same way they can't do rock'n'roll.

Joe_Christ

Has anyone else noticed that there are a huge number of atheist comedians?

Galvasean

Joe_Christ wrote: »

Has anyone else noticed that there are a huge number of atheist comedians?

Part n' parcel of being a comedian is assessing the world around you very very critically. Atheists tend to do this in relation to religion/God etc., so becoming a comedian is a natural progression for many atheists with a highly developed sense of humour.

Joe_Christ

I had sorta come to that conclusion. Comedians take a step back from the world and look at it from an outsiders perspective. I suppose one of the things an alien would laugh at first would be the idea of a god

Obliq

Joe_Christ wrote: »

I had sorta come to that conclusion. Comedians take a step back from the world and look at it from an outsiders perspective. I suppose one of the things an alien would laugh at first would be the idea of a god

Ironically challenged sentence....... "thinks aliens would laugh at the idea of a god"

Ha! I made a funny

recedite

Sarky wrote: »

Christianity can't really do humor. Same way they can't do rock'n'roll.

Actually, in the program Anne was at pains to show they can do humour.
To prove it, she produced some Christian comedy. It was a badly drawn picture of a monk farting, from the margin of a psalter book which was a few hundred years old. When she pointed out that it was funny, I nearly died laughing, so I did.

wp_rathead

Jernal wrote: »

In before the yeah, but would they dare mock something like Islam comment.

Obliq

Wow! But will it play in t'other forum?

Penn

Watched this last night.

Lost a bit of respect for Marcus Brigstocke for not pointing out that Anne Widdecombe wasn't actually wounded in any way, shape or form by the Goodness Gracious Me sketch, nor is it anything like making fun of a recent bereavement for someone. And also the fact that according to her religion, the communion wafer doesn't become the body of Christ until prayers have been said, in which case there was no sacrilege when the communion wafer was used.

I think maybe he didn't want to come across as unreasonable, but he just came across far too willing to change his view based off very poor points put forward by Anne.

IT-Guy

Penn wrote: »

Watched this last night.

Lost a bit of respect for Marcus Brigstocke for not pointing out that Anne Widdecombe wasn't actually wounded in any way, shape or form by the Goodness Gracious Me sketch, nor is it anything like making fun of a recent bereavement for someone. And also the fact that according to her religion, the communion wafer doesn't become the body of Christ until prayers have been said, in which case there was no sacrilege when the communion wafer was used.

I think maybe he didn't want to come across as unreasonable, but he just came across far too willing to change his view based off very poor points put forward by Anne.

Was hoping he'd tackle her on that too, the term "inexhaustible grief" (courtesy of Abe in Lincoln) seems apt here. That said, I can't understand the concept of grieving for someone you've never met or known and probably never will. Seems like a form of emotional catnip/eternal mental torture.

It struck me as completely bizarre that she honestly believes she's eating JC's flesh at communion time. There's a level of delusion involved there I can't and don't ever want to comprehend

Delirium

Found it on youtube for anyone who wants a gander:)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8B0rl86vK_s

Galvasean

Obliq wrote: »

Wow! But will it play in t'other forum?

Considering anything critical of Islam is rendered taboo by the forum charter I would say no.

Obliq

Galvasean wrote: »

Considering anything critical of Islam is rendered taboo by the forum charter I would say no.

But that's why I asked (will it play in the other forum)? To me, that joke is non-critical. Read below:

"I've got a Muslim friend who is really religious. He knows the Quran backwards. Which is handy because that's how you read it."

I wonder what taboo that joke would break? Shall I ask? In an inoffensive as possible kind of way?!

Galvasean

Obliq wrote: »

But that's why I asked (will it play in the other forum)? To me, that joke is non-critical. Read below:

"I've got a Muslim friend who is really religious. He knows the Quran backwards. Which is handy because that's how you read it."

I wonder what taboo that joke would break? Shall I ask? In an inoffensive as possible kind of way?!

You'd have to leave out the bit where Jimmy said, "And that's because I'm not a f#cking idiot" because that was a sly dig at the type of Muslims who try to kill people over 'offensive' jokes.

Obliq

Galvasean wrote: »

You'd have to leave out the bit where Jimmy said, "And that's because I'm not a f#cking idiot" because that was a sly dig at the type of Muslims who try to kill people over 'offensive' jokes.

Too late . Actually, I wouldn't leave that out. I think it's completely ok to say you've made an inoffensive joke about the islamic faith because IT IS POSSIBLE to do that (due to not being a f*cking idiot). I agree that it MAY have been a sly dig at that type of Muslim, but that would be measuring Jimmy Carr's intelligence in a cynical kind of way. Let's see what they say over there eh?

Nodin

recedite wrote: »

Actually, in the program Anne was at pains to show they can do humour.
To prove it, she produced some Christian comedy. It was a badly drawn picture of a monk farting, from the margin of a psalter book which was a few hundred years old. When she pointed out that it was funny, I nearly died laughing, so I did.

In fairness they probably can do humour, some of them. Certainly if the person who pushed Widdecombe as the ideal presenter of the show was chirstian, it'd be proof positive.

Sarky

Muslim or not, anyone who gets offended enough by jokes to kill another human IS a f*cking idiot.

Galvasean

Obliq wrote: »

Too late . Actually, I wouldn't leave that out. I think it's completely ok to say you've made an inoffensive joke about the islamic faith because IT IS POSSIBLE to do that (due to not being a f*cking idiot). I agree that it MAY have been a sly dig at that type of Muslim, but that would be measuring Jimmy Carr's intelligence in a cynical kind of way. Let's see what they say over there eh?

Jimmy Carr, cynical? No!!!! :pac:

Obliq

Sarky wrote: »

Muslim or not, anyone who gets offended enough by jokes to kill another human IS a f*cking idiot.

Well yes. But let's just stick to the facts here as a matter of interest. This was said by Jimmy Carr:

"I've got a Muslim friend who is really religious. He knows the Quran backwards. Which is handy because that's how you read it.

A surprisingly well-informed and inoffensive joke about the Islamic faith. And that's because I'm not a f*cking idiot."

I agree with your statement Sarky. However, for the purposes of finding out if the joke (in his first 3 sentences) is actually inoffensive to Muslims, I choose to believe that Carr is claiming not to be an idiot on the basis that he can make an inoffensive joke about Islam where others have clearly failed.

Sarky

Obliq wrote: »

Well yes. But let's just stick to the facts here as a matter of interest. This was said by Jimmy Carr:

"I've got a Muslim friend who is really religious. He knows the Quran backwards. Which is handy because that's how you read it.

A surprisingly well-informed and inoffensive joke about the Islamic faith. And that's because I'm not a f*cking idiot."

I agree with your statement Sarky. However, for the purposes of finding out if the joke (in his first 3 sentences) is actually inoffensive to Muslims, I choose to believe that Carr is claiming not to be an idiot on the basis that he can make an inoffensive joke about Islam where others have clearly failed.

I'm sure that's what he meant as well. Meh, either way. You can ignore whatever incarnation of dead one shows up to get pissy.

Obliq

Sarky wrote: »

I'm sure that's what he meant as well. Meh, either way. You can ignore whatever incarnation of dead one shows up to get pissy.

I have yet to experience the pleasure of a pissy dead one. I have asked a simple enough question I believe. Might be meh, might be less meh than that. I'm open to surprises

Sarky

Well worth searching for the thread where he discovered bluewolf was a woman, and he admonished her for swearing, and it all went downhill from there.

Delirium

The program was equally depressing and frustrating at times. I didn't realise that the Goodness Gracious Me episode is essentially banned by the Broadcast authority in England.

I've actually seen the segment of the episode that caused the outrage and while I can see why some Christians would be upset by it, I don't think it warranted such an extreme reaction. Widdecome had to get special persmission just to view it herself.

There were complaints that comics lean toward joking about Christianity while at the same time bemoaning the decline of knowledge/membership of Christianity. They also grumbled about comics presuming that the audience are generally atheists. Why is it presumed that Christians can't also laugh at some of the jokes about their religion?

They also touched on "people being squeezed to conform" with regards to not being seen to be religious. Surely this is a trait of society generally. I mean it was the same when religion was the ruling power. They would be better off suggesting that maybe people not conform out of peer pressure but rather choose their own way, regardless if it's religion/atheism.

Widdecome got off easy on the subject of "don't mock what's sacred to me (or any other person/group)". Why didn't any of the comics try to delve into where do we draw the line? Some people would probably regard their political party/government they support with equal passion as a religion. Should political jokes be silenced also?

Overall it seemed that the Widdecome just fails to understand that comedy is very subjective. She doesn't like a certain joke, but others do. Why can't see be an adult and just ignore it?

Obliq

Sarky wrote: »

Well worth searching for the thread where he discovered bluewolf was a woman, and he admonished her for swearing, and it all went downhill from there.

Oh that sounds like good clean fun. I reckon I'll get no answers at all, if they even do just a little research on my posts. Which would be a shame. And I'm not even being cynical. I am more of a blank-slate than most people, I think. Genuinely curious about the answer(s) actually.....

Hotblack Desiato

Sarky wrote: »

Well worth searching for the thread where he discovered bluewolf was a woman, and he admonished her for swearing, and it all went downhill from there.

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=71049269&postcount=137

robindch

^^^ Scary.

MrPudding

robindch wrote: »

^^^ Scary.

Not as scary as his many posts trying to convince us that beating your wife or daughter is the correct thing to do in certain circumstances.

MrP

Obliq

Oh wow. I see he is banned though, but I'm sure there are many with those beliefs. Indeed, I know some catholic ones (sadly).

mlumley

keane2097 wrote: »

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6YA5UdVhhsI

Can I have my 8min 26 sec back please.

Paramite Pie

IT-Guy wrote: »

Raises the question why some Xtians believe their religion should be above any satire or parody? To me it's simply because someone taking an unproved and unprovable belief as fact is ripe material for taking the piss and happens in all walks of life.

Xtians? Really? It honestly sounds like your trying too hard to avoid typing the word Christ.. :pac:

The X as in Xmas (for example) is not a secular invention. It comes from the Greek word Χριστός which is their word for 'Christ'.

Christ was typically abbreviated as Xρ as far back as 1021 AD. By the 1600s it was just X. Now modern Christians try to blame us secularists for taking the 'Christ' out of Christmas by using X but that's just a silly accusation. We're just convenient targets for them.

It also bothers me when us Atheists believe it too... X is an ancient and valid Christian traditional symbol so using it does not make us better Atheists *end rant*:p

ceegee

Thunk Dara O'Brien summed up the whole "you wouldnt make that joke about muslims" argument fairly well.
To paraphrase - Yeah I wouuldnt joke anout because
A - I know f**k all about islam
and
B - All of ye know f**k all about islam, I could make a joke about the way a flaming unicorn appears in the koran and ye'd just be sitting there going "is that a thing in the koran?"

And one muslim going "wtf is he on about"

Hotblack Desiato

Paramite Pie wrote: »

Xtians? Really? It honestly sounds like your trying too hard to avoid typing the word Christ.. :pac:

The X as in Xmas (for example) is not a secular invention. It comes from the Greek word Χριστός which is their word for 'Christ'.

Christ was typically abbreviated as Xρ as far back as 1021 AD. By the 1600s it was just X. Now modern Christians try to blame us secularists for taking the 'Christ' out of Christmas by using X but that's just a silly accusation. We're just convenient targets for them.

It also bothers me when us Atheists believe it too... X is an ancient and valid Christian traditional symbol so using it does not make us better Atheists *end rant*:p

We know. Your point?

MrPudding

ninja900 wrote: »

We know. Your point?

I find it tends to be christians that get annoyed when x is used instead of christ, presumably because it represents yet a other thing a out their religion that they did not know or understand.

I expect anyone of atheist persuasion using that particular abbreviation, or Xmas, does so out of lazyness ad convienience.

MrP

Turtwig

MrPudding wrote: »

I find it tends to be christians that get annoyed when x is used instead of christ, presumably because it represents yet a other thing a out their religion that they did not know or understand.

I expect anyone of atheist persuasion using that particular abbreviation, or Xmas, does so out of lazyness ad convienience.

MrP

And this where my pet peeve comes in. It's "Χ" (pronounced "Chi.") not 'x'.

\pedant.

Hotblack Desiato

MrPudding wrote: »

I expect anyone of atheist persuasion using that particular abbreviation, or Xmas, does so out of lazyness ad convienience.

You expect wrong

Hotblack Desiato

Jernal wrote: »

And this where my pet peeve comes in. It's "Χ" (pronounced "Chi.") not 'x'.

\pedant.

χ actually

Turtwig

ninja900 wrote: »

χ actually

[latex]\chi[/latex]:p

Hotblack Desiato

Meh that's just italicised

Just in case there's anyone else still reading this :pac: here's where "Xmas" etc. really come from:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chi_rho

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Xmas

There is a common misconception that the word Xmas stems from a secular attempt to remove the religious tradition from Christmas[3] by taking the "Christ" out of "Christmas", but its use dates back to the 16th century.

Gordon

Jesus H X.

Turtwig

ninja900 wrote: »

Meh that's just italicised

And curvy and more aesthetically beautiful.:pac: