Indo v Times?

newmug

Can someone explain to me what the seemingly endless feud between these two papers and their readership is all about? To me, the two seem so close in opinion, in political ideology, in journalistic style etc., that its hard to see any differences at all! Its like debating whether FF or FG are bigger liars! What is the background to all this, how did it all start, what are the principles of either side, or is it all just snob thing?

DEFTLEFTHAND

The upper class read the Times, the middle read the Indo. Reading a broad sheet meant that you were intelligent, although now that the Indo have stopped producing a broad its become a grey area. The middle class can't understand the big words in the Times.

Zebra3

Indo is read by wanna middle class types who are too thick to realise they haven't made it yet.

It's just another tabloid.

PogMoThoin

It's all political spin no matter which one you read

newmug

DEFTLEFTHAND wrote: »

The upper class read the Times, the middle read the Indo. Reading a broad sheet meant that you were intelligent, although now that the Indo have stopped producing a broad its become a grey area. The middle class can't understand the big words in the Times.

PAH!!, I've spilled my tea! By whose standards did reading a broadsheet equate with intelligence?

Legs.Eleven

I've got both papers in front of me. Indo is a tabloid rag and TIT (haha!) is a quality broadsheet. Not sure where the confusion lies?

DEFTLEFTHAND

newmug wrote: »

PAH!!, I've spilled my tea! By whose standards did reading a broadsheet equate with intelligence?

My Dear Chap they thought they were our equal, plebiscites I say.

Indo is a rag in fairness

newmug

Legs.Eleven wrote: »

I've got both papers in front of me. Indo is a tabloid rag and TIT (haha!) is a quality broadsheet. Not sure where the confusion lies?

I don't read either regularly. Whenever I do, I see hardly any difference between them, but there seems to be a disproportionate rivalry between them. If, as you say, the Indo is a rag and the TIT is quality, then surely its like comparing a Kia to a Merc? So where is this rivalry coming from?

Skill Magill

In a fight? I'd go for the Times, well known for being hard

Cee-Jay-Cee

newmug wrote: »

PAH!!, I've spilled my tea! By whose standards did reading a broadsheet equate with intelligence?

You need to be intelligent to be able to open it up, fold it straight down the middle and then bend it in half. Then you need über intelligence to be able to figure out where the front page is and which way to turn it so that you open up the next page and not the previous one. It's all very complicated and not for the thick and stupid folk, that's why they get The Sun or The Star which have nice colorful pictures and simple words like 'tits' and 'cat'

osarusan

The Indo is just a joke of a rag that will print anything at all that's controversial. Apart from some of the sports coverage , it's a tabloid.


The Irish Times at least makes an attempt to report objectively and comment rationally on what's happening in the world. Ironically, some of the sports coverage is the worst thing about it, apart from John Waters.

DEFTLEFTHAND

Skill Magill wrote: »

In a fight? I'd go for the Times, well known for being hard

You sound like a made guy, A friend of ours yes?

Made men read broadsheets, the crime reporting is matter of fact and not sensationalized.

opinion guy

Indo is a right wing rag.

IT can occasionally be a rag and occasionally right wing but usually makes a fair effort to include some actual journalism. Don't know why they give John Waters a column however - I think its sort of a troll element - allow him to wind people up so they write in letters

Amirani

My impression was always that the Indo was favoured by more conservative readers, the Times by the more liberal. There's definitely a distinction in their journalism in that sense too.

Legs.Eleven

newmug wrote: »

I don't read either regularly. Whenever I do, I see hardly any difference between them, but there seems to be a disproportionate rivalry between them. If, as you say, the Indo is a rag and the TIT is quality, then surely its like comparing a Kia to a Merc? So where is this rivalry coming from?

The rivalry for readership, I'm presuming.

wendell borton

The times is owned by a trust so it isn't in the thrall of shareholders like the indo. Historically the times was seen as unionist and the indo blueshirt.

Benny_Cake

opinion guy wrote: »

Indo is a right wing rag.

IT can occasionally be a rag and occasionally right wing but usually makes a fair effort to include some actual journalism. Don't know why they give John Waters a column however - I think its sort of a troll element - allow him to wind people up so they write in letters

I've a feeling that visitor numbers to their website spike every time John Waters writes an article. Kevin Myers used to play a similar role.

efb

The Indo is in a fight with The Daily Fail for 'middle-ireland's' right.

newmug

wendell borton wrote: »

The times is owned by a trust so it isn't in the thrall of shareholders like the indo. Historically the times was seen as unionist and the indo blueshirt.

NOW we're getting places! WHY was the TIT considered to be unionist, and WHY was the indo considered blueshirt?

IsaacWunder

The Indo is owned by Denis O'Brien, a man who is perceived by some to be a bit too close to Fine Gael.

It used to be owned by Tony O'Reilly, a man who was perceived by some to be a bit too close to Fianna Fáil, especially Bertie Ahern.

The Irish Times isn't owned by any media barron. It's funded by a trust.

anncoates

newmug wrote: »

PAH!!, I've spilled my tea!

You may need a new mug.

checkyabadself

The IT is Ireland`s paper of record like the New York Times in America or The Times in the UK.

The Independent is an ironically named paper that has cover to cover opinion pages. The IT can be seen as boring as they reprint a lot of articles from the Guardian and Reuters, but I prefer to read plain and somewhat cold boring fact than the Ind practically telling me how I should be feeling about what I`m reading.

I hate the fact that so much of the Independent`s readership don`t realize that it is a right wing newspaper with a huge FF/now FG agenda and that the Ind can dedicate huge front page pictures to pictures of "lovely girls" at a horse racing event as being considered national interest.

I love the IT but as has been previously been said John Waters is an excruciating individual who should write for the Ind a la Kevin Myers and Sarah Carey.........Who does he eat lunch with in the canteen?

efb

checkyabadself wrote: »

The IT is Ireland`s paper of record like the New York Times in America or The Independent in the UK.

The Independent is an ironically named paper that has cover to cover opinion pages. The IT can be seen as boring as they reprint a lot of articles from the Guardian and Reuters, but I prefer to read plain and somewhat cold boring fact than the Ind practically telling me how I should be feeling about what I`m reading.

I hate the fact that so much of the Independent`s readership don`t realize that it is a right wing newspaper with a huge FF/now FG agenda and that the Ind can dedicate huge front page pictures to pictures of "lovely girls" at a horse racing event as being considered national interest.

I love the IT but as has been previously been said John Waters is an excruciating individual who should write for the Ind a la Kevin Myers and Sarah Carey.........Who does he eat lunch with in the canteen?

I presumed he just faxed his piece in from Iona Towers...

Duck Soup

It's also largely a rural vs. city split. I have a female friend from Kilkenny, well educated, who grew up reading the Indo and still does to this day. (You're not going to read the death notice of your Auntie Assumpta in the feckin' IT, after all).

Her Dublin boyfriend used to have conniptions every time she took it out to read in some south Dublin café. He thought it was embarrassing. She thought he should gwayandshoite.

cson

Whatever about the differences in their daily editions, the difference between the Sunday versions of both papers is absolutely mammoth.

If I was to properly outline what I think of the Sindo on this board, I'd be banned. The benchmark in tasteless gutter journalism.

Grayson

I've found there are two factors that you can use to distinguish whether a paper is good or not.

1) Does it have horoscopes? If it does, they should remove the "news" from the "newspaper".

2) How good is the crossword.

The IT has a good crossword and the Indo doesn't. The indo also has horoscopes.

Therefore, the Indo is a rag.

osarusan

cson wrote: »

Whatever about the differences in their daily editions, the difference between the Sunday versions of both papers is absolutely mammoth.

What Sunday version of the Irish Times?

Ando's Saggy Bottom

cson wrote: »

Whatever about the differences in their daily editions, the difference between the Sunday versions of both papers is absolutely mammoth.

If I was to properly outline what I think of the Sindo on this board, I'd be banned. The benchmark in tasteless gutter journalism.

+1 on the Sindo being a joke. Newsprint version of Hello magazine which keeps us up to date on where the cast of Dublin Housewives decided to show their botox laden grimaces this week.

nlgbbbblth

cson wrote: »

Whatever about the differences in their daily editions, the difference between the Sunday versions of both papers is absolutely mammoth.

If I was to properly outline what I think of the Sindo on this board, I'd be banned. The benchmark in tasteless gutter journalism.

There's no Sunday version of The Irish Times.

The Sunday Times is overrated anyway - The Observer is much better.

aquaman

If one regularly reads both and can't tell the difference between the indo and times, they should probably just stick to the indo. Or just buy the star and stop pretending to be interested in factual unbiased news.

April O Neill

Zebra3 wrote: »

Indo is read by wanna middle class types who are too thick to realise they haven't made it yet.

It's just another tabloid.

The Times is shíte too, TBH.

Legs.Eleven wrote: »

and TIT (haha!) is a quality broadsheet. Not sure where the confusion lies?

It's really not. Lots of inaccuracies.

invincibl3

They are both right of centre rags. Before the liberal IT Groupies come on talking up its lefty credentials remember the IT morphed into a Property Selling rag under the helm of a former PD TD.

When the "paper of record" should have been doing its duty in 2005/06/07 by commenting on the bubble and impending financial collapse, bar the odd token FOT or David McW. column,it was primarily focused on flogging house's and apartments.

Good riddance to the IT when it eventually goes tits up.

tritium

Indo = conservative rag with right of centre social view and agenda

Irish Times = liberal rag with liberal left social view and agenda

At least in recent years

Simple really

Celly Smunt

Observer wins.

Nodin

newmug wrote: »

Can someone explain to me what the seemingly endless feud between these two papers and their readership is all about? To me, the two seem so close in opinion, in political ideology, in journalistic style etc., that its hard to see any differences at all! Its like debating whether FF or FG are bigger liars! What is the background to all this, how did it all start, what are the principles of either side, or is it all just snob thing?

Regardless, the Indo is now owned by outstanding and upright citizen Denis O'Brien, so you can make your own judgements there....

starlings

opinion guy wrote: »

Indo is a right wing rag.

IT can occasionally be a rag and occasionally right wing but usually makes a fair effort to include some actual journalism. Don't know why they give John Waters a column however - I think its sort of a troll element - allow him to wind people up so they write in letters

let's not forget the low-frequency trollings of Roisin Ingle. It'd wear you down slowly with the smugness. She's the Instagram to Waters' YouTube commentary.

dd972

Shouldn't this thread be titled Corporate Media Bollocks v Corporate Media Sh!te?

Why would anyone need John Waters, Kevin Myers or Ian O'Doherty to form an opinion, can't people think for themselves?

Winston Payne

checkyabadself wrote: »

The IT is Ireland`s paper of record like the New York Times in America or The Independent in the UK.

The Independent most certainly isn't the UK's paper of record. That's The Times, or the Times of London to distinguish it in this thread.

mikom

The Indo soaks up chip grease better.......... so it has that in its favour.

FixdePitchmark

The Irish Times have done some quality work in the Weekend Review over the last few years. Dealing with all the societal issue, since the start of the downturn. It can feel a bit forced at times, or dropping in for the weekend - you can pop back to the wine review in magazine if you want. They deserve full credit for that work.

I got the Indo a few times in the last month, to see what I was missing out on. It does deal with exposures , but you know there is a sort of agenda with the story. To be honest , it would take a bit of work, to look into who is after who and why - it is a bit confusing , but they did break Lowry story. A mixed bag.
All joking aside - there are some seriously good looking girls in photos in the Indo and after all that, a man is but a man. :eek:;)

So my new approach is to pop into both. I think looking at the readership figures. You will have a very narrow view of how Ireland works, if you don't pop into the Indo. Ireland has had a strange few 100 years , perhaps I look at the Times as an Ideal of Ireland and the Sindo the reality.

P_1

As others have said, in a very generalist nutshell:

The Indo is a conservative paper, generally it tends to report the conservative side to stories and expects its readership to only follow that side.

The Times is a liberal paper, generally it tends to report both sides to stories and expects its readership to make their own judgement

awec

Indo sports coverage is awful. Conor George is a terrible troll and if he qualifies as a journalist then anyone does.

I actually don't mind the Times sports coverage.

P_1

awec wrote: »

Indo sports coverage is awful. Conor George is a terrible troll and if he qualifies as a journalist then anyone does.

I actually don't mind the Times sports coverage.

Let's not mention that charlatan's name...

Used to hate the Indo.. Now I hate both. Have to resort to UK papers for decent news coverage.

Antar Bolaeisk

April O Neill wrote: »

The Times is shíte too, TBH.

It's really not. Lots of inaccuracies.

When The Irish Times prints something which is then shown to be inaccurate they make a point of correcting that inaccuracy in the next available paper.

hfallada

The irish times investigates problems and issues in Irish society. Where as the Irish independent takes something small blows it out of proportion and makes it a headline story( mistranslating the polish women's experience of Ireland last year).

The Irish times appears to value it's independence where as the independent lacks freedom since denis o Brien is buying a large share in loss making business that is questionable whether it will make a profit again but has influence over what it writes about him.

Sergeant

I'm a fan of both, and think that both still have a place in helping to form public opinion in Ireland.

Sunnyisland

I would read both two but for a deeper perspective on what is happening I would go for the Irish Times.

The Irish Times is an Irish daily broadsheet newspaper launched on 29 March 1859,Though formed as a Protestant nationalist paper, within two decades and under new owners it had become the voice of Irish unionism.[5] It is no longer considered a unionist paper; it is generally perceived as being politically liberal and progressive, as well as being centre-right on economic issues,The Irish Times has the most foreign bureaux of any Irish newspaper.[citation needed] It has had full-time correspondents in Washington, Paris, Berlin, Beijing, Brussels, London, Africa and other parts of the world.

Circulation has declined in recent years. According to the Audit Bureau of Circulations, it had a daily circulation of 100,951 during the first six months of 2011.[7] The average daily circulation, of the Irish Times was down to 92,565 for the period January to June 2012 according to the ABC. This represented a fall in circulation of 8% on a year-on-year basis, slightly less than the average newspaper decline of 9%.[8] Circulation then further declined to 88,356 for the period July to December 2012. This represented a fall in circulation of 8% on a year-on-year basis. [9


The Irish Independent was formed in 1905 as the direct successor to the Daily Irish Independent, an 1890s pro-Parnellite newspaper, and was launched by William Martin Murphy, a controversial Irish nationalist businessman, staunch anti-Parnellite and fellow townsman of Parnell's most venomous opponent, Bantry's Timothy Michael Healy.[2]

During the 1913 Lockout of workers, in which Murphy was the leading figure among the employers, the Irish Independent vigorously sided with its owner's interests, publishing news reports and opinion pieces hostile to the strikers, expressing confidence in the unions' defeat and launching personal attacks on the leader of the strikers, James Larkin. The Irish Independent described the 1916 Easter Rising as "insane and criminal" and famously called for the shooting of its leaders.[3] In December 1919, during the Irish War of Independence, a group of twenty IRA men destroyed the printing works of the paper, angered at its criticism of the Irish Republican Army and largely pro-British and Unionist stance. In 1924, the traditional nationalist newspaper, the Freeman's Journal, merged with the Irish Independent.

In the 1970s, it was taken over by former Heinz chairman Tony O'Reilly. Under his leadership, it became a more populist, market liberal newspaper—populist on social issues, but economically right-wing. By the mid-nineties its allegiance to Fine Gael had ended. In the 1997 general election, it endorsed Fianna Fáil under a front page editorial, entitled "It's Payback Time". While it suggested its headline referred to the fact that the election offered a chance to "pay back" politicians for their failings, its opponents suggested that the "payback" actually referred to its chance to get revenge for the refusal of the Rainbow Coalition to award the company a mobile phone licence, from wiki :-)

Kinski

Duck Soup wrote: »

It's also largely a rural vs. city split. I have a female friend from Kilkenny, well educated, who grew up reading the Indo and still does to this day. (You're not going to read the death notice of your Auntie Assumpta in the feckin' IT, after all).

Her Dublin boyfriend used to have conniptions every time she took it out to read in some south Dublin café. He thought it was embarrassing. She thought he should gwayandshoite.

The Independent imagines its archetypal reader as a college-educated, married woman from the midlands with a couple of kids. They actually have a name for her, but I forget what it is; 'Una from Offaly' or something like that.

Muckit

I do the twinplex and ekwee in the indo. I'm middle class you see