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Driving in the middle lane

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13

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    #62
    Ilik Urgee
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,430 ✭✭✭Ilik Urgee


    gubbie wrote: »

    Now I normally drive in Cork and it rarely is a problem.

    Admittedly not the middle lane but the south link is a joke with the amount of tossers who won't drive in the left lane. It's a huge problem in that they're stuck in the overtaking lane-there's nowhere to overtake him.
    At least with a MLHogger you've the option of going outside right of him.

    And the c**** heading northbound in the outside lane from the Kinsale Road flyover all the way to the tunnel lest they miss their turnoff for East Cork, they seriously should have their licences revoked.


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    #63
    visual
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,268 ✭✭✭visual


    creedp wrote: »


    I'm slow so I don't get it! if I'm in the left/middle lane and somebody comes up behind me wishing to overtake does he not simply move out to the middle/right lane? How am I causing him to double his lane hopping?

    The rules of the road dictate driving on the left.
    If you in the left lane someone overtaking moves into middle and over takes simple enough.
    However if your hogging middle lane.
    Anyone who is driving correctly behind you in left lane has to proform two seperate lane changes.
    1st to middle land then a 2nd to right lane to go pass you. Then has to make two more seperate lane changes to return to left lane.

    I making the point of seperate lane changes as you can't legally change more than one lane at a time.

    A part from a middle driver braking the rules of road it does make driving for other motorists very difficult if they follow the rules of the road and encourages others to also become middle laners.

    Also HGV aren't allowed to use the right lane on 3 lane motorway or dual carriageway. So in theory they too will get caught up behind a slower moving middle laner

    I personally blame the garda lack of enforcement of lanes to be a big problem. They don't have to dish out punishment a blast of blues and twos would be enough to encourage most to move over to left.


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    #64
    Ilik Urgee
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,430 ✭✭✭Ilik Urgee


    creedp wrote: »
    .
    The other scenario I referred to is if I am in the left lane and some guy in the middle lane is going slower that me I won't cross over to the right lane to overtake him before moving back to the left lane .. I'll simply remain in the left lane and undertake him.

    Yeah I can see your point but I'd be afraid of them changing lanes in on top of me. Another poster suggested using the horn on them, even still if he's that incompetent not to know where the driving lane is, he's liable to swerve looking for the source of the horn.


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    #65
    _Kaiser_
    Registered Users Posts: 28,797 ✭✭✭✭_Kaiser_


    ironclaw wrote: »
    On that point, do you indicate? You should be because your actually changing lane. Most people don't. And most people, quite reasonably, assume no one from their left is going to cut right or just blindly drive straight on.

    Actually I do (indicate). I indicate if I'm the only car on the road at 3am and I change lanes :)

    If you're in lane 3 at the point the road splits (blue in the diagram, heading for the city), there is no reason for you to cut across into (what was) lane 2 at that point.

    If you follow the lanes as they're actually marked then you'll be cutting someone off in lane 1 as there's a very short gap between the start of the split and a concrete median.

    I agree that my "solution" isn't ideal, but by doing so:
    - You're not impacting drivers in lane 1 as they'll slide left behind you
    - You're not suddenly cutting in front of someone at the last minute thanks to the poor design
    - Lane 3 drivers should be unaffected as above

    The only thing you need to watch out for is people in lane 2 who've been caught out by the unexpected change

    As to your point about continuing on.. again I'd normally agree, but if you're unfamiliar with this junction (as many people may be) then you're instinctively going to do something rash to try and get where you suddenly "should" be.
    If you continue on the flyover city bound then last I was there, there isn't a simple way to do a U-turn and double back(?).

    The way it SHOULD be is this...


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    #66
    visual
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,268 ✭✭✭visual


    I've seen traffic corp enforcement of undertaking sometimes I've thought unfairly but they pulled over guys all the same.

    I use to regularly encounter a woman who drove from Dublin to Nass in right had lane at about 70 to 80 kph resulting in a line of cars behind her.

    I was contemplating undertaking her but notice a white helmet behind the car behind me. But the guy in front of me either didn't notice or thought he be ok moving from right overtaking lane to middle and then to left lane all ok so far. Now he slowly increase his speed from 80kph and was undertaking the lady who was still plodding along at 80 in 100k zone in without a care in the world.

    The white helmet turned out to be a traffic corp motorcyclists. Blues and twos on and pulled in the guy in the left most lane who had just undertaken the lady driver.

    Really felt sorry for this guy and really annoyed the motorcycle garda didn't zoom up and pull the lady driver up for very poor driving and being a rolling road block.


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    #67
    ironclaw
    Registered Users Posts: 8,004 ✭✭✭ironclaw


    Kaiser2000 wrote: »
    If you follow the lanes as they're actually marked then you'll be cutting someone off in lane 1 as there's a very short gap between the start of the split and a concrete median.
    .

    If your in lane 1 (Left most) and going south you are in the wrong lane. No if's or but's. Its the wrong lane to be in.

    You'll be cutting no one off if your in the correct lane. That's my whole point! If your in the left lane, you'll flow left and North. If your in the center, you'll flow a little to the left and south. No need for indication, no need to cutting because everyone is where they should be. By the time the junction splits you'll have had plenty of warning and signage. There is no need for lane changing and no one in lane 1 (left most) should be proceeding straight on, they should merely flow left. That leaves plenty of space for someone in the centre to flow left and south.

    There is simply no reason to not be in the correct lane as they are marked. Please stop advocating or 'ok-ing' for people to use the left most lane to go South because its entirely wrong advice.


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    #68
    invincibl3
    Closed Accounts Posts: 16 ✭invincibl3


    The OP is some spoofer. I first came across her in the thread linked where, as a cyclist, she outlined how she refuse's to follow the ROTR because she doesn't like the rain so won't stop at at a red light.

    http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2056085684&page=2

    Now she's here ignoring the ROTR when she's in a car.

    You're some chancer Gubbie, as well as a danger to others in both your car and on your bike, Get off the road!


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    #69
    Ilik Urgee
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,430 ✭✭✭Ilik Urgee


    That's a long grudge to hold:eek::pac:


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    #70
    Anan1
    Registered Users Posts: 22,815 ✭✭✭✭Anan1


    invincibl3 wrote: »
    The OP is some spoofer. I first came across her in the thread linked where, as a cyclist, she outlined how she refuse's to follow the ROTR because she doesn't like the rain so won't stop at at a red light.
    Do you really think that a cyclist should have to wait at a red light to turn left when they can see that there's nothing coming? Because honestly (and I say this as a driver) I don't see the need.


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    #71
    _Kaiser_
    Registered Users Posts: 28,797 ✭✭✭✭_Kaiser_


    ironclaw wrote: »
    If your in lane 1 (Left most) and going south you are in the wrong lane. No if's or but's. Its the wrong lane to be in.

    You'll be cutting no one off if your in the correct lane. That's my whole point! If your in the left lane, you'll flow left and North. If your in the center, you'll flow a little to the left and south. No need for indication, no need to cutting because everyone is where they should be. By the time the junction splits you'll have had plenty of warning and signage. There is no need for lane changing and no one in lane 1 (left most) should be proceeding straight on, they should merely flow left. That leaves plenty of space for someone in the centre to flow left and south.

    There is simply no reason to not be in the correct lane as they are marked. Please stop advocating or 'ok-ing' for people to use the left most lane to go South because its entirely wrong advice.

    OK, my last word on this as we're going in circles now - it is an example of what I was talking about earlier in the thread though, ie: blindly following the "rules" vs applying a little common sense.

    That particular stretch immediately before the split in the road (enforced by a concrete median) is a 60 km/h zone. Immediately before that it's 80 km/h.

    In practise, having driven that stretch a lot myself, most people are still doing 60-80 by the time they reach the split. If they're unfamiliar with the sudden jerk left (it's not quite the gentle drift left you're suggesting) this means they stand on the brakes and/or swerve left to make the M50 S lane.

    Alongside this (literally) are the ones in lane 1 who are heading for M50 N but don't move into that extra/new lane until after a good bit after they pass the split point.

    Result: Your driver in Lane 2 who is heading for M50 S and obeying the rules finds himself caught behind someone swerving in front of the guy who has yet to move left in Lane 1. For added chaos will be the guy in Lane 3 who decides to cut in front of him too because suddenly there's 2 lanes for City traffic (and you should always keep left, right!)

    Bottom line - it's a extremely poor junction and the current setup is very dangerous with the volume of cars on it and the unannounced split and sharp lefts needed (if you're unfamiliar with it on approach). Therefore, the path of least resistance (although yes, not "correct" either) is to move to Lane 1 on approach, indicate and continue if safe to do so. I'd consider this far safer than the evasive maneuvers needed if you follow the signage/markings.

    I'm not advocating or ok-ing anyone to do anything incidentally - you should always be aware of the conditions and make your decisions based on this when driving IMO rather than just following the herd/speed limit sign etc


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    #72
    creedp
    Registered Users Posts: 5,699 ✭✭✭creedp


    Ilik Urgee wrote: »
    Yeah I can see your point but I'd be afraid of them changing lanes in on top of me. Another poster suggested using the horn on them, even still if he's that incompetent not to know where the driving lane is, he's liable to swerve looking for the source of the horn.

    Agree that's a posible risk .. however, I still think its a lessor overall risk than veering all over a 3 lane motorway just to end back where I started for the sake of abiding by the can't pass on the left rule.


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    #73
    invincibl3
    Closed Accounts Posts: 16 ✭invincibl3


    Ilik Urgee wrote: »
    That's a long grudge to hold:eek::pac:

    I don't think I've ever come across someone on boards so blatantly ignorant of the ROTR, no surprise to see her being a middle-lane muppet either.

    Gubs probably doesn't wear a Hi-Viz jacket when out walking at night either :o.


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    #74
    invincibl3
    Closed Accounts Posts: 16 ✭invincibl3


    Anan1 wrote: »
    Do you really think that a cyclist should have to wait at a red light to turn left when they can see that there's nothing coming? Because honestly (and I say this as a driver) I don't see the need.

    Would you want to be approaching a junction in your car with a cyclist coming the other way who decides whether or not to obey the lights based on whether the weather is bad or not? Coz that what gubs was about as a cyclist.

    Now as a motorist she seems to be deciding that the ROTR motorway regulations aren't to her taste either so she'll improvise there as well. A walking, talking Darwin award contender if ever there were one methinks.


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    #75
    mitosis
    Registered Users Posts: 2,000 ✭✭✭mitosis


    Did you rereg so you could follow the OP about?


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    #76
    iMyself
    Closed Accounts Posts: 95 ✭✭iMyself


    bluewolf wrote: »
    Because you can't overtake on the left
    That's not always true. It's allowed if there is a queue of traffic in the outer lane. It takes 2 cars to define a queue. I find that this is almost always the case on the M50 whenever there is moderate to heavy traffic volume, allowing me to legally pass a queue on the inside.

    OK seems I may be bending the rules a bit :-)
    Overtake only on the right, unless traffic is travelling in slow moving queues and the traffic queue on your right is travelling more slowly than you are. If you intend to move from a slower lane to a faster lane, adjust your speed first.

    So both your own lane needs to be in a queue and they both need to be moving "slowly". Which raises the question, what is the definition of "slowly".


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    #77
    Anan1
    Registered Users Posts: 22,815 ✭✭✭✭Anan1


    invincibl3 wrote: »
    Would you want to be approaching a junction in your car with a cyclist coming the other way who decides whether or not to obey the lights based on whether the weather is bad or not? Coz that what gubs was about as a cyclist.
    Which part of when there's nothing coming are you having trouble with?


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    #78
    the culture of deference
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,196 ✭✭✭the culture of deference


    Davidth88 wrote: »
    I learnt to drive in the UK , and drove there for 20 yrs ( with 20k business miles per year for a lot of that time), so I spent a lot of time on motorways.

    Me too.
    The main problem here is driving standards are sh1te. Until that is addressed with proper police enforcement then nothing will change.

    I had a thread a while ago where a HGV incl trailer overtook me on a continuous white line, in a 50 zone outside a school.

    The amount of attitude from people who gave me sh1t about driving to the speed limit, and slowing the truck down, as if it was my fault for obeying the ROTR.

    Here are a few quotes

    CINIO
    I don't know really, but for me it looks like perfectly straight stretch of road with good visibility. I know it's illegal to cross continuous white line, but to be honest this line is there just because it's a school, but it's hard to see too much danger is his driving assuming there was no one around.
    I wouldn't bother reporting such behaviour unless it was dangerous.

    I think fleet manager might be more interested that his drivers make it at schedules time to schedules place, than they don't break the continuous white line.

    To be honest - if school wasn't there, then there would be no limit to 50, and no continuous white line.
    So then this HGV would overtook you legally.

    But you said you were endangered by truck driver, while in fact I can't see how, as school was closed, and it was probably perfectly safe to overtake.
    If school was not there at all, there would be 80km/h speed limit and broken white line.

    Eric cartman

    At 5pm school had been closed for a couple of hours, im not saying the truck driver was right , but your thread is now effectively "overtaken in a 50 zone by a hgv" the school has no baring on the scenario if there's no kids around.

    Road high

    Sure HGV guy broke the rules but who's to say he wasn't stuck in sheer frustration for miles behind the OP and saw this as an opp to get by.

    Skittlebrau wrote: »
    According to him, if you're in the driving lane and you pass traffic in the middle (overtaking) lane that's ok. What's prohibited is undertaking i.e. moving from the middle lane to the left lane to pass a car and back into the middle lane.

    This happens to me a lot with cruise control on. My CC is set to speed limit on my sat nav.

    I find that on a on dual cw when a car is alongside me and then we go uphill I start gaining back on them.


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    #79
    mathepac
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 4,991 ✭✭✭mathepac


    gubbie wrote: »
    I... Seriously, what's so wrong with this?
    There is no need for yet another idiotic thread on this subject; read The Rules of the Road published by Uncle Gaybo and the RSA heads, specifically targeting people who are learner drivers or who don't know or understand the rules governing road-use in Ireland; people like yourself I suppose.


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    #80
    invincibl3
    Closed Accounts Posts: 16 ✭invincibl3


    mitosis wrote: »
    Did you rereg so you could follow the OP about?

    No, I like to lurk on boards motor forum. Coming across this thread I tut tutted at the sillyness of the OP when then I realised the name sounded familiar, very familiar indeed. A quick google later showed me that the same dangerous person on a bicycle around UCC is now a dangerous person in a car on the M50 :eek:
    Anan1 wrote: »
    Which part of when there's nothing coming are you having trouble with?


    Did you just read one post in the thread I linked to and leave it at that? Clearly you didn't bother yourself to read all posts in there, because, if you had, you'd have seen where the OP said weather conditions influenced her decision as to whether she'd follow traffic lights and the ROTR or not.


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    #81
    corktina
    Closed Accounts Posts: 17,733 ✭✭✭✭corktina


    creedp wrote: »
    I'm slow so I don't get it! if I'm in the left/middle lane and somebody comes up behind me wishing to overtake does he not simply move out to the middle/right lane? How am I causing him to double his lane hopping?

    if he's in the left lane and you are in the middle, he'll have to go right over to the right hand lane to pass you...you did say you stay in the middle lane to avoid lane hopping didnt you?


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    #82
    corktina
    Closed Accounts Posts: 17,733 ✭✭✭✭corktina


    Ilik Urgee wrote: »
    Admittedly not the middle lane but the south link is a joke with the amount of tossers who won't drive in the left lane. It's a huge problem in that they're stuck in the overtaking lane-there's nowhere to overtake him.
    At least with a MLHogger you've the option of going outside right of him.

    And the c**** heading northbound in the outside lane from the Kinsale Road flyover all the way to the tunnel lest they miss their turnoff for East Cork, they seriously should have their licences revoked.

    I'd add those who go over the flyover hogging the middle lane as they aren't turning for Douglas a mile or so further on...


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    #83
    creedp
    Registered Users Posts: 5,699 ✭✭✭creedp


    corktina wrote: »
    if he's in the left lane and you are in the middle, he'll have to go right over to the right hand lane to pass you...you did say you stay in the middle lane to avoid lane hopping didnt you?

    Why would he have to overtake me when I am going faster than him. As I have explained already I stay in middle lane while I am travelling faster than traffic in left lane. Im just not going to unecessarily swerve in and out of the left lane while doing this overtaking as one ROTR fanatic would insist I do.

    I agree with you re the madness of a middle lane hogger forcing a left lane driver across to the right lane and back again simply to overtake him which is why I stay in the left lane and continue on my way.

    By the way while this might seem contradictory .. there are days when I am not in a rush or have dwindling fuel supplies and have to take it easy


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    #84
    ironclaw
    Registered Users Posts: 8,004 ✭✭✭ironclaw


    creedp wrote: »
    Why would he have to overtake me when I am going faster than him. As I have explained already I stay in middle lane while I am travelling faster than traffic in left lane. Im just not going to unecessarily swerve in and out of the left lane while doing this overtaking as one ROTR fanatic would insist I do.

    Generally speaking, if the left lane is clear in such a way that you could occupy it for 30 seconds (irregardless of your speed) without having to move again, then your hogging in my eyes. Its far too easy to suggest the lazy man alternative of 'Ah sure I'll sit in the middle' Also you shouldn't have to swerve. Overtaking is a part of normal driving and shouldn't be viewed as a chore.

    I'm not suggesting someone should Yo-Yo in and out of the left lane every 10 seconds, so with that I agree with you.


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    #85
    corktina
    Closed Accounts Posts: 17,733 ✭✭✭✭corktina


    creedp wrote: »
    Why would he have to overtake me when I am going faster than him. As I have explained already I stay in middle lane while I am travelling faster than traffic in left lane. Im just not going to unecessarily swerve in and out of the left lane while doing this overtaking as one ROTR fanatic would insist I do.

    I agree with you re the madness of a middle lane hogger forcing a left lane driver across to the right lane and back again simply to overtake him which is why I stay in the left lane and continue on my way.

    By the way while this might seem contradictory .. there are days when I am not in a rush or have dwindling fuel supplies and have to take it easy

    I understand what you are saying. GENERALLY though,many times I have come up behind people in the middle lane and had to change lanes twice to pass them. If there is a break in the traffic in the left lane, you should pull into it especially if faster traffic is catching you in any lane.The only time you should remain in the middle lane is if there is an unbroken procession of cars in the left lane


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    #86
    creedp
    Registered Users Posts: 5,699 ✭✭✭creedp


    ironclaw wrote: »
    Generally speaking, if the left lane is clear in such a way that you could occupy it for 30 seconds (irregardless of your speed) without having to move again, then your hogging in my eyes. Its far too easy to suggest the lazy man alternative of 'Ah sure I'll sit in the middle' Also you shouldn't have to swerve. Overtaking is a part of normal driving and shouldn't be viewed as a chore.

    I'm not suggesting someone should Yo-Yo in and out of the left lane every 10 seconds, so with that I agree with you.


    It looks like one person hogging is another persons smooth progress. Listen I agree with you that in general you should stay left. However, while it might not be a chore per se to regularly be moving in and out of a lane to overtake, I still consider that a quick check of the mirror will indicate if staying in the middle lane, while travelling faster than traffic in the left, is actually holding anybody up. The latter is what I would consider hogging , i.e. actually holding people up unecessarily. When it comes down to it its all about interpretation and reacting to the environment around you which, ike the weather, constantly changes.


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    #87
    yer man!
    Registered Users Posts: 1,651 ✭✭✭yer man!


    Is this unique to Ireland, in America you're supposed to drive in the middle lane and keep up with the pace of traffic. If you want to drive slower you pull into the inside lane and to go faster you pull into the outside lane. It makes sense as when you drive along in the middle lane you can just cruise the whole way and don't have to move in and out at every exit for merging traffic.

    https://driversed.com/driving-information/driving-techniques/use-of-lanes.aspx

    I was driving on the M50 and kept to the middle lane the last day, I was driving at 100km/h (the limit) and people were getting very aggressive with me even though traffic was merging onto the motorway in the left lane constantly so it would make very little sense to pull into it only to move out of it every few minutes....


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    #88
    Celly Smunt
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 9,464 ✭✭✭Celly Smunt


    yer man! wrote: »
    Is this unique to Ireland, in America you're supposed to drive in the middle lane and keep up with the pace of traffic. If you want to drive slower you pull into the inside lane and to go faster you pull into the outside lane. It makes sense as when you drive along in the middle lane you can just cruise the whole way and don't have to move in and out at every exit for merging traffic.

    https://driversed.com/driving-information/driving-techniques/use-of-lanes.aspx

    I was driving on the M50 and kept to the middle lane the last day, I was driving at 100km/h (the limit) and people were getting very aggressive with me even though traffic was merging onto the motorway in the left lane constantly so it would make very little sense to pull into it only to move out of it every few minutes....
    By driving in the middle lane you are hindering people driving correctly merging into to middle lane from the left,thus leaving no room for traffic to merge onto the motorway and causing congestion.


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    #89
    CiniO
    Registered Users Posts: 16,072 ✭✭✭✭CiniO


    the culture of deference wrote: »
    I had a thread a while ago where a HGV incl trailer overtook me on a continuous white line, in a 50 zone outside a school.

    The amount of attitude from people who gave me sh1t about driving to the speed limit, and slowing the truck down, as if it was my fault for obeying the ROTR.


    No one told you it was your fault. No one gave you sh1t about driving to the speed limit.
    We were just trying to find explanation for truck driver to break the RoTR.
    You seemed to be completely shocked by the fact that truck driver overtook you on continuous white line, while most likely it didn't cause any danger.


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    #90
    CiniO
    Registered Users Posts: 16,072 ✭✭✭✭CiniO


    yer man! wrote: »
    Is this unique to Ireland
    No.
    In most places in the world you are meant to drive on most left (or right - depending on orientation of traffic) lane if not overtaking.


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    #91
    yer man!
    Registered Users Posts: 1,651 ✭✭✭yer man!


    Celly Smunt wrote: »
    By driving in the middle lane you are hindering people driving correctly merging into to middle lane from the left,thus leaving no room for traffic to merge onto the motorway and causing congestion.

    How? could the left lane not be used for those who are slowing down or speeding up - to or from exits?


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