fuller figure shop mannequins

reprazant

gagiteebo wrote: »

I'm well aware some size 14 are overweight however it's extremely misguided to say the majority are. So many other factors. Dress size on its own means nothing so if half the population of women were a size 14 it would still mean nothing as dress size on its own is irrelevant. That is my point.

But since over half the population are overweight and the average size of this population is 14, would it not stand to reason that most people who are a size 14 are overweight?

I don't know, I think that the use of size 14 as an example makes perfect sense.

SBWife

gagiteebo wrote: »

I'm well aware some size 14 are overweight however it's extremely misguided to say the majority are.

No it's not. 52% of Irish women are overweight or obese, aka the majority, given that women who are a size 6/8/10 are less likely than average to be overweight (not an unrealistic assumption) it stands to reason that those who are a size 14 are either at the average 52% overweight or above this. Therefore it's not at all misguided to say the majority of women who take a size 14 are overweight, although unless they are well under the average height they are unlikely to be obese.

gagiteebo

reprazant wrote: »

But since over half the population are overweight and the average size of this population is 14, would it not stand to reason that most people who are a size 14 are overweight?

I don't know, I think that the use of size 14 as an example makes perfect sense.

Average size is 16 afaik I could well be wrong.
Two women who are a 14. One is 5 10 the other is 5 5. Does it still make sense to say that? Also why did any size have to be singled out? Aren't there enough women who struggle with body image without that nonsense?

gagiteebo

SBWife wrote: »

No it's not. 52% of Irish women are overweight or obese, aka the majority, given that women who are a size 6/8/10 are less likely than average to be overweight (not an unrealistic assumption) it stands to reason that those who are a size 14 are either at the average 52% overweight or above this. Therefore it's not at all misguided to say the majority of women who take a size 14 are overweight, although unless they are well under the average height they are unlikely to be obese.

And height figures where? I'm not disputing what you've said. Someone who is a size 12 and 5 4 could well be overweight. Someone who is size 14 and 6 foot might not be. Why the fixation on a size 14 being unhealthy? That's what I have a problem with

I completely agree that obesity needs to be tackled and now as it is a problem. On a side note I do believe irish women are getting fitter and healthier.

jaffacakesyum

SBWife wrote: »

No it's not. 52% of Irish women are overweight or obese, aka the majority, given that women who are a size 6/8/10 are less likely than average to be overweight (not an unrealistic assumption) it stands to reason that those who are a size 14 are either at the average 52% overweight or above this. Therefore it's not at all misguided to say the majority of women who take a size 14 are overweight, although unless they are well under the average height they are unlikely to be obese.

Furthermore, size 14, while varying throughout the shops means you have a waist size of around 32 inches right? Depending on what shop you're going to, if you're wearing size 14 waist (not for big boobs) you are either borderline or over the recommended waist circumference. Measuring abdominal fat is an accurate measurement, unless it is bony structure or fat that brings your measurement up. The fact that people are arguing against the majority of size 14 people being overweight is pretty shocking to be honest, but that's the culture we live in. Obesity is an epidemnic yet people are saying it's the minority of cases that a size 14 person is overwight? Nonsense.

There are exceptions. And not rare exceptions, there are probably a LOT of exceptions. People who work out and have higher muscle mass, people with naturally wide frames etc. of course they exist. I'm a size 12 but have less body fat % than some of my friends who are size 10, because I have wider hips naturally.

BMI is the best indicator (although again, can be off) for whether you're a healthy weight or not. I think it's stupid to go by clothes sizes, which vary hugely between shops. That said, arguing that in most cases size 14 is healthy isn't right, in my opinion.

SBWife

Gagiteebo - You seem to be confused over the meaning of the term majority. It doesn't mean that everyone who is a 14 is overweight it means that more than 50% are, given the average height in this country is 5' 4 1/2" and the average woman is overweight or obese, there's nothing misguided about saying that the majority of women in Ireland who are a size 14 are overweight.

Now whether making that statement is valuable to a debate on obesity, or size acceptance, or what healthy is, or what normal is, is a completely different question but continually arguing against the logic behind the statement isn't answering or even asking that question.

gagiteebo

jaffacakesyum wrote: »

Furthermore, size 14, while varying throughout the shops means you have a waist size of around 32 inches right? Depending on what shop you're going to, if you're wearing size 14 waist (not for big boobs) you are either borderline or ovehe recommended waist circumference. Measuring abdominal fat is an accurate measurement, unless it is bony structure or fat that brings your measurement up. The fact that people are arguing against the majority of size 14 people being overweight is pretty shocking to be honest, but that's the culture we live in. Obesity is an epidemnic yet people are saying it's the minority of cases that a size 14 person is overwight? Nonsense.

There are exceptions. And not rare exceptions, there are probably a LOT of exceptions. People who work out and have higher muscle mass, people with naturally wide frames etc. of course they exist. I'm a size 12 but have less body fat % than some of my friends who are size 10, because I have wider hips naturally.

BMI is the best indicator (although again, can be off) for whether you're a healthy weight or not. I think it's stupid to go by clothes sizes, which vary hugely between shops. That said, arguing that in most cases size 14 is healthy isn't right, in my opinion.[/Quote

I never said it was the minority did I? I argued that clothes sizes are a lot of the time irrelevant when other factors are not taken in to account.

I agree that there is an obesity epidemic that has to be tackled. I also believe that with the number of women and girls with serious body image issues that can affect their lives to say that size 14 is always unhealthy is irresponsible. I was one of those young girls and I now work with women, mostly teenage girls with body image issues and when thrown around in such a blasé manner these words can have a disastrous effect. I'm not saying nor have I once said that all size 14 women are healthy.

SBWife

NO ONE HAS SAID IT IS ALWAYS UNHEALTHY/OVERWEIGHT.

gagiteebo

SBWife wrote: »

Gagiteebo - You seem to be confused over the meaning of the term majority. It doesn't mean that everyone who is a 14 is overweight it means that more than 50% are, given the average height in this country is 5' 4 1/2" and the average woman is overweight or obese, there's nothing misguided about saying that the majority of women in Ireland who are a size 14 are overweight.

Now whether making that statement is valuable to a debate on obesity, or size acceptance, or what healthy is, or what normal is, is a completely different question but continually arguing against the logic behind the statement isn't answering or even asking that question.

With all due respect I'm not confused over the meaning of the term majority. I'm not arguing with the fact that some size 14 are overweight. If you look at my initial post I have a problem with size 14 being singled out as unhealthy with no other factors being taken into consideration.

pwurple

I weep for the maths skills in this thread.

SBWife

SBWife wrote: »

NO ONE HAS SAID IT IS ALWAYS UNHEALTHY/OVERWEIGHT.

Mod

Typing in caps is the internet equivalent of shouting - shouting is uncivil. Don't do it.

gagiteebo

SBWife wrote: »

NO ONE HAS SAID IT IS ALWAYS UNHEALTHY/OVERWEIGHT.

Look back and read what prompted me to post initially before you accuse me of not quite understanding
'It's very rare that someone who is a size 14 is a healthy weight'.

jaffacakesyum

gagiteebo wrote: »

I never said it was the minority did I? I argued that clothes sizes are a lot of the time irrelevant when other factors are not taken in to account.

I agree that there is an obesity epidemic that has to be tackled. I also believe that with the number of women and girls with serious body image issues that can affect their lives to say that size 14 is always unhealthy is irresponsible. I was one of those young girls and I now work with women, mostly teenage girls with body image issues and when thrown around in such a blasé manner these words can have a disastrous effect. I'm not saying nor have I once said that all size 14 women are healthy.

You said it's extremely misguided to state that most women who are size 14 are overweight. I think that's nonsense. Make up your mind; either the majority of women size 14 and above are overweight, or the minority are.

And you're preaching to the choir here, I've also worked with overweight women, albeit not teens usually, and am well aware of the body issues, difficulties and coaching these men and women need. Thankfully I've never had to deal with being overweight myself. You're acting like I'm going around calling people fattys and lambasting them to lose weight when I'm not. I'm just stating the obvious; that the majority of women who are size 14 in Ireland are overweight which is unhealthy; there are exceptions, plenty of exceptions, but it doesn't make it any less true.

gagiteebo

jaffacakesyum wrote: »

You said it's extremely misguided to state that most women who are size 14 are overweight. I think that's nonsense. Make up your mind; either the majority of women size 14 and above are overweight, or the minority are.

And you're preaching to the choir here, I've also worked with overweight women, albeit not teens usually, and am well aware of the body issues, difficulties and coaching these men and women need. Thankfully I've never had to deal with being overweight myself. You're acting like I'm going around calling people fattys and lambasting them to lose weight when I'm not. I'm just stating the obvious; that the majority of women who are size 14 in Ireland are overweight which is unhealthy; there are exceptions, plenty of exceptions, but it doesn't make it any less true.

I said that it's misguided to do so on dress size alone and it is! Where is the confusion in my meaning?

Never once have I accused or acted like I think you're going around calling people fatty etc and i am not disagreeing with what you have said either. I am a 14 and am not nor ever have been overweight so yes there are exceptions and yes there are size 14 women who are overweight and obese. My point is to single that size out based on dress size alone as being unhealthy is nonsense.

dazzler454

Listen. I havn't been following this somewhat questionable thread but Ido have a strong view on this. I myself am in a long term relationship with a perfectly healthy,active Senegalese woman. I struggle every day to comprehend how she is a size 24 yet , low and behold she is. She runs twice a day for a solid 8 mins and prefers to walk to the restaurant rather than drive. In essence, she does the right things( in terms of weight loss). She's 5 foot tall and unfortunately weighs more than most international rugby players. It has to be genetics, in my view, that is impeding my partner from any sort of significant weight loss and for this reason, it angers me when people show no sympathy for 'fattys' as its 'their own fault'. BOLLOCKS!! I say to that statement BOLLOCKS!!

SBWife

She runs twice a day for 8 mins! Wow.
She walks rather then drives to the Resturant.

Has she tried eating at home and upping the 16 mins of exercise to 60.

coffee_cake

I've been 30" and still in a size 14 as most 12s wouldn't fit. might be the hips, it's an hourglass thing going on

jaffacakesyum

gagiteebo wrote: »

I said that it's misguided to do so on dress size alone and it is! Where is the confusion in my meaning?

No confusion, I just disagree. Clothes size is a stupid way to determine if you're overweight as there are plenty of other ways to more reliably determine that. It doesn't change the fact that the majority of size 14 women are probably overweight. Exceptions don't tip that balance into the minority, I'm afraid.

Never once have I accused or acted like I think you're going around calling people fatty etc and i am not disagreeing with what you have said either. I am a 14 and am not nor ever have been overweight so yes there are exceptions and yes there are size 14 women who are overweight and obese. My point is to single that size out based on dress size alone as being unhealthy is nonsense.

Then why bring in all the nonsense about me being 'irresponsible' and talk about body issues and self-esteem :rolleyes: If me being truthful is irresponsible than I will continue to do so for as long as I can. You are size 14 and not overweight. Fantastic. You're an exception that proves the rule, in my opinion.

All of this is sort of off topic anyway. More on-topic, I agree there should be more fuller figure mannequins in shops

gagiteebo

jaffacakesyum wrote: »

No confusion, I just disagree. Clothes size is a stupid way to determine if you're overweight as there are plenty of other ways to more reliably determine that. It doesn't change the fact that the majority of size 14 women are probably overweight. Exceptions don't tip that balance into the minority, I'm afraid.



Then why bring in all the nonsense about me being 'irresponsible' and talk about body issues and self-esteem :rolleyes: If me being truthful is irresponsible than I will continue to do so for as long as I can. You are size 14 and not overweight. Fantastic. You're an exception that proves the rule, in my opinion.

All of this is sort of off topic anyway. More on-topic, I agree there should be more fuller figure mannequins in shops

I agree clothes size is a silly way to determine if you are overweight. That has been my point! And I never said anything about them being the minority rather than majority. I agree with you! All I said was nonsense to say size 14 is an unhealthy size based on clothes size alone. I think we agree on that much

Based on my experience it is irresponsible to throw around comments like that and it has a hell of a lot to do with body image and self esteem. Can't speak for anyone else but I deal with it every day with the young girls I work with. I can only have my opinion on my experience. Yours is different? Great! Speak the truth of course but speak all the truth. That there's more to it than just the size on the clothes label. You can agree or disagree no need to be disrespectful with the rolling eyes. No need for it.

For the final time. I completely agree with most of what you have said. I don't agree a size based on size alone should be deemed unhealthy. That is what I initially challenged. I'm tired repeating myself now!

But yeah different size mannequins are a great thing

FizzleSticks

This post has been deleted.

Hermione*

SBWife wrote: »

She runs twice a day for 8 mins! Wow.
She walks rather then drives to the Resturant.

Has she tried eating at home and upping the 16 mins of exercise to 60.

Mod:

No need for that. Please stay on topic.

Hermione*

jaffacakesyum

FizzleSticks wrote: »

This post has been deleted.

Congratulations on losing the weight. Keep up the good work

Lollipops23

This thread has deviated somewhat, I fear

Just for the record, I'm a 12 on top and a 14 on bottom (actually I'd be a 13 if they made them!) and my weight is slap dab in the middle of the "healthy" BMI range. I'm 5'6".

The human body is so intricate and varied, not everyone fits in a box. Also taking into account the vanity sizings, the differences in sizes between shops etc, you can't pin someone as being obese or overweight on clothing size alone. You just can't.

Obviously if a woman is a size 24 or something, she'd need to be 7ft tall for her to not be falling into the overweight category, but on the whole, sizing does not necessarily reflect weight/health.

WittyKitty1

It disgusts me that people across the internet think that mannequin is condoning obesity.

a stick thin mannequin in a shop isn't going to motivate anyone to be skinner if anything it makes me feel a bit sh**e when i go into shops and all the clothes are pinned back on the mannequins because not even the smallest fu**ing size in the shop fits the mannequin!!!:mad:

Honestly, that mannequin is that? a size 12/14 perhaps? The average size for most women I would say and theres nothing wrong with it.

It's about time the fashion world got realistic about sizes!

Larianne

WittyKitty1 wrote: »

It disgusts me that people across the internet think that mannequin is condoning obesity.

Who said that?

I'd say that mannequin is a size 12, fwiw.

I found an article which makes a lot of the points I was trying to get across in this thread. It's quite long so I don't know if I should quote it or not?

http://www.independent.ie/woman/fashion/size-zero-is-dead-long-live-size-14-26663315.html

WittyKitty1

Sorry- I seen this image posted on Facebook a few days ago. it was littered with comments of people saying it was condoning obesity etc( I should have stated that in my above comment)

Wibbs

Larianne wrote: »

Who said that?

I'd say that mannequin is a size 12, fwiw.

I found an article which makes a lot of the points I was trying to get across in this thread. It's quite long so I don't know if I should quote it or not?

http://www.independent.ie/woman/fashion/size-zero-is-dead-long-live-size-14-26663315.html

Interesting article L, worth a read, IMHO anyway. Quoting it is the problem, blame TD Sherlock and his daft legislation.