ireland rugby 7's

JustinDee

As stated before, there will be a decision on Men's Sevens made once qualification criteria for the Olympics are finalised this year.
In the meantime, €1.1m is being put into the Women's Sevens programme, so we do in fact have a Sevens side aiming for Rio. Shout them on. They're a very sharp outfit with great management and worthy of a better profile.

snotboogie

Zuffer wrote: »

Irish fans are great at saying that the IRFU should put more funds into certain areas - be it sevens, womens, Connacht, to name just a few.

However, we're also great at complaining when they try to raise revenue. I've seen threads here complaining about Aviva naming rights, food and drink at the ground, and ticket prices. I read today that the issue of alcohol sponsorship is back on the government agenda. So the IRFU are getting from all sides.

To say that 7's could at present be self funding is, I think, naive at best. There has never been a worse time in the history of the professional game to try and get sponsorship. What's out there isn't going to cover the costs. (Also, add this seasons "U20s getting shown on TV over the women's game due to PWC sponsorship" to the IRFU can't win column).

All that said, if the IRFU were serious about 7s and Rio, or if they thought it would be a big help to the main international team, they'd cut somewhere else and find the money.

My 2c, I think a view has been taken within the IRFU that 7s and 15s are not natural compliments, but in fact 7s would compete against 15s, and maybe steal away players, supporters and cash. I think they might be right. I'd say Ireland is small enough that if we lost 2 or 3 international standard backs to a full time 7s program, that would hurt the 15 man game. Taken with the costs issue, I'd say that's why the IRFU haven't gone all guns blazing for 7s and Rio.

This is nonsense, these issues apply to every country so why is every other major rugby nation able to put together a sevens team except for us?

irishbucsfan

snotboogie wrote: »

This is nonsense, these issues apply to every country so why is every other major rugby nation able to put together a sevens team except for us?

Because most of them don't support central contracts as we do. The IRFU run the professional game for 4 teams. The RFU for example don't have to do that.

The other nations that do seem to suffer from a loss of players quite often.

Losty Dublin

ArmaniJeanss wrote: »

Why do the merits or not of 7s have to be measured in terms of what it can do for 15s?

It should be looked at as a seperate entity imo, an international game at which we can be competitive (admittedly this could take 10/20 years because of the head start we've given the rest) which has an Olympic outlet and the benefits/revenues this can bring, a yearly World Championship, and the possibility down the line of Dublin becoming one of the host cities on the circuit.

The argument raised by most people is that a 7's team be run with view to develop players from it. On this simple basis then yes it has to be compared to the 15's and the general experience is that it doesn't offer anything skills wise to players, and it won't hold onto many wavering young players either. On a financial level, even an amateur squad explicitly for 7's is unlikely to cover it's arse. If Ireland was to become a host venue on it's circuit and although it does get some new bums in on seats it's worldwide fan appeal isn't great. In short, resources could be better invested into other aspects of the game which need it.

As it is, the IRB series is finishing up this year so it will have to be the Olympic system if it's to be done.

pickarooney

JustinDee wrote: »

As stated before, there will be a decision on Men's Sevens made once qualification criteria for the Olympics are finalised this year.

Hopefully one of them is not "must have an existing sevens team" :pac:

backgreen

maybe the irfu should give it over to rugby league to run a mens 7s ..i am sure they would be delighted

lurtz

Jesus we really REALLY need a team,its a proper joke that we dont compete. Id see it as an ideal development opportunity for young lads

dropping_bombs

A video of the women's squad in Hong Kong.

davidpfitz

lurtz wrote: »

Jesus we really REALLY need a team,its a proper joke that we dont compete. Id see it as an ideal development opportunity for young lads

Tell me about it! I was over at the HK 7s the other day, and the number of people that asked me why Ireland didn't have a sevens team was astonishing. I couldn't give them a proper answer, to be honest - "budget" doesn't ring true when pretty much every other major (and minor) nation was represented (I can't recall seeing Italy play, but that doesn't mean they weren't there).

As an aside, the HK 7s is absolutely mental and I'd encourage everyone who is able to go, to go at least once. It's one hell of a weekend.

Beery Eyed

We're very quick to criticize the IRFU for not investing the money in 7's (I was also one of these detractors at one stage) but when it's analyzed fully it becomes less clear cut.

People highlighting the second/third tier & minor countries with participating teams aren't taking the whole picture into account. For instance, when was the last time Fiji, Kenya, Portugal, Canada, USA, Russia, Spain, etc. gave our full senior 15's team a real challenge in a test? These are all example teams of course, but the fact is that many of these teams, who are excellent at the 7's game, invest significantly in this level and often to the detriment of developing their senior international side.

We cannot directly compare ourselves with many of the other unions involved either, for various reasons. England, New Zealand, South Africa & France all have an absolute wealth of playing numbers to support their touring 7's teams, with a constant rotation of new players coming in each year. Even comparing us with our two closest neighbours - Wales & Scotland - isn't ideal. For example Wales don't field an "A" international team, which is something I wouldn't be too impressed if we gave up, while Scotland's union only support 2 provincial teams (and somewhat poorly it could be argued), rather than our 4. Within our direct 6Nations rivals the only other team to compare with is Italy, and as far as I know they don't compete on the 7's tour either, instead opting to invest more in the 15's game like we do.

Unfortunately the money is not endless in the Irish game and in fairness to the IRFU I think they do a good job of distributing it in a way which best meets their target - the development of our International senior team. They invest significantly in the senior & "A" teams, 4 fully professional provincial teams, as well as "A" teams, underage & academy teams at each province.

I'd love for us to have a 7's team of course, but on the other hand I'd hate to see us fielding a team of young lads getting whipped every tournament just for the sake of having a team out there. I'd also be hesitant to see any funding moved away from the provincial/academy setup that has started to really bear fruit after much investment & effort. Hopefully there is a way that it can be accommodated, but right now it certainly isn't as straightforward as some people would argue.

lurtz

Beery Eyed wrote: »

We're very quick to criticize the IRFU for not investing the money in 7's (I was also one of these detractors at one stage) but when it's analyzed fully it becomes less clear cut.

People highlighting the second/third tier & minor countries with participating teams aren't taking the whole picture into account. For instance, when was the last time Fiji, Kenya, Portugal, Canada, USA, Russia, Spain, etc. gave our full senior 15's team a real challenge in a test? These are all example teams of course, but the fact is that many of these teams, who are excellent at the 7's game, invest significantly in this level and often to the detriment of developing their senior international side.

We cannot directly compare ourselves with many of the other unions involved either, for various reasons. England, New Zealand, South Africa & France all have an absolute wealth of playing numbers to support their touring 7's teams, with a constant rotation of new players coming in each year. Even comparing us with our two closest neighbours - Wales & Scotland - isn't ideal. For example Wales don't field an "A" international team, which is something I wouldn't be too impressed if we gave up, while Scotland's union only support 2 provincial teams (and somewhat poorly it could be argued), rather than our 4. Within our direct 6Nations rivals the only other team to compare with is Italy, and as far as I know they don't compete on the 7's tour either, instead opting to invest more in the 15's game like we do.

Unfortunately the money is not endless in the Irish game and in fairness to the IRFU I think they do a good job of distributing it in a way which best meets their target - the development of our International senior team. They invest significantly in the senior & "A" teams, 4 fully professional provincial teams, as well as "A" teams, underage & academy teams at each province.

I'd love for us to have a 7's team of course, but on the other hand I'd hate to see us fielding a team of young lads getting whipped every tournament just for the sake of having a team out there. I'd also be hesitant to see any funding moved away from the provincial/academy setup that has started to really bear fruit after much investment & effort. Hopefully there is a way that it can be accommodated, but right now it certainly isn't as straightforward as some people would argue.

Yes I seee your point and it is a good one but I also see no reason why we can't invest. New Zealand have a senior team,Maori,u20,schools,Heartland and womens teams on a national level. As well as this they have 4 super rugby teams,with development teams,and 14 other fully pro ITM Cup squads,with academies and underages team at each team. So on top of all this they manage to support two sevens teams. Im not an accountant and dont know how our finances are going but I think we can probably do it as well

Thud

Invest significantly in the A team? the A team is pulled together for one or two matches a year and the one that played in Nov was predominantly made up of players from the first squad/camp and when it comes to international experience A caps are disregarded by most (as happened in theJackson & Madigan cases)so I don't see a huge benefit in it over say Heineken cup or Rabo experience.

Beery Eyed

lurtz wrote: »

Yes I seee your point and it is a good one but I also see no reason why we can't invest. New Zealand have a senior team,Maori,u20,schools,Heartland and womens teams on a national level. As well as this they have 4 super rugby teams,with development teams,and 14 other fully pro ITM Cup squads,with academies and underages team at each team. So on top of all this they manage to support two sevens teams. Im not an accountant and dont know how our finances are going but I think we can probably do it as well

Again, I would have to say that any comparison with New Zealand isn't ideal. Their depth of high quality players, and the iconic national status of the game there, are on a different level to ourselves. We can only get our own house in order within the constraints of our own budget & resources.

CatFromHue

lurtz wrote: »

Yes I seee your point and it is a good one but I also see no reason why we can't invest. New Zealand have a senior team,Maori,u20,schools,Heartland and womens teams on a national level. As well as this they have 4 super rugby teams,with development teams,and 14 other fully pro ITM Cup squads,with academies and underages team at each team. So on top of all this they manage to support two sevens teams. Im not an accountant and dont know how our finances are going but I think we can probably do it as well

I think NZ have recognised that Sevens is now a different game and they will be focusing more on specialist Sevens players, if they don't already, than on players who can play in both.

pickarooney

Maybe the GAA would be interested in running a 7s team?

:pac: