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ireland rugby 7's

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  • 20-03-2013 2:51pm
    #1
    8on the 1st
    Registered Users Posts: 9 ✭


    just wondering why ireland don't have a rugby 7's team playing in the events around the world.seems odd as even kenya have 1


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    #2
    Clondalphian
    Registered Users Posts: 96 ✭✭Clondalphian


    I think its down to finances. Read somewhere(might have been on here) that the IRFU could either have the finances for Connacht or an Irish 7's team but not both


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    #3
    dregin
    Moderators, Music Moderators Posts: 6,524 Mod ✭✭✭✭dregin


    Women's 7s will be getting a fair whack of financial backing.

    http://www.irishexaminer.com/sport/rugby/multi-million-investment-plan-to-develop-womens-rugby-225899.html


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    #4
    backgreen
    Registered Users Posts: 245 ✭✭backgreen


    Clondalphian wrote: »
    I think its down to finances. Read somewhere(might have been on here) that the IRFU could either have the finances for Connacht or an Irish 7's team but not both
    a load of bull from the irfu...they voted for the inclusion of 7s in the olympics
    an have made no effort to develop a mens team..all the premier rugby nations have teams on the IRB tour,it has no impact on their finances or their 15s game
    the 7s game is virtually self-financing..i would't expect much from head office no vision


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    #5
    Clondalphian
    Registered Users Posts: 96 ✭✭Clondalphian


    backgreen wrote: »
    a load of bull from the irfu...they voted for the inclusion of 7s in the olympics
    an have made no effort to develop a mens team..all the premier rugby nations have teams on the IRB tour,it has no impact on their finances or their 15s game
    the 7s game is virtually self-financing..i would't expect much from head office no vision

    How does the 7's game finance itself?


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    #6
    Superbus
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,784 ✭✭✭Superbus


    Clondalphian wrote: »
    I think its down to finances. Read somewhere(might have been on here) that the IRFU could either have the finances for Connacht or an Irish 7's team but not both

    You know things are bad when Kenya can afford something that we can't.


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    #7
    Taco Corp
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,718 ✭✭✭Taco Corp


    Clondalphian wrote: »
    How does the 7's game finance itself?
    get a 7's weekend in Dublin? that would draw a respectable crowd, both local and tourists. a big tourist draw would definitely get government support. of course there's also prize money, sponsorship, etc


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    #8
    davidpfitz
    Registered Users Posts: 247 ✭✭davidpfitz


    7s is awesome. Drums up support, and if you play your cards right you can host a profitable tournament.

    I'm off this weekend to HK for a reccie.


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    #9
    jjjd
    Registered Users Posts: 684 ✭✭✭jjjd


    Clondalphian wrote: »
    I think its down to finances. Read somewhere(might have been on here) that the IRFU could either have the finances for Connacht or an Irish 7's team but not both

    Have they not heard of a thing called sponsorship?!!:rolleyes:


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    #10
    backgreen
    Registered Users Posts: 245 ✭✭backgreen


    Clondalphian wrote: »
    How does the 7's game finance itself?
    the IRB pay all the travel expences etc for the competing teams on the IRB world tour..as i said previously the IRFU voted and lobbied to have 7s included in the olympics and accept money from the irish sports council on the back of that.gender balance is needed here ..mens7s with the womens 7s


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    #11
    snotboogie
    Registered Users Posts: 3,570 ✭✭✭snotboogie


    Typical Ireland, the only rugby nation not to have a sevens team.


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    #12
    sydthebeat
    Subscribers Posts: 41,254 ✭✭✭✭sydthebeat


    snotboogie wrote: »
    Typical Ireland, the only rugby nation not to have a sevens team.

    A guy I know played for ireland 'A' in sevens last weekend.

    Maybe they just aren't at full standard yet.


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    #13
    JustinDee
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,684 ✭✭✭JustinDee


    sydthebeat wrote: »
    A guy I know played for ireland 'A' in sevens last weekend

    "Ireland 'A' in Sevens"?? There is actually no such team.


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    #14
    irishbucsfan
    Registered Users Posts: 37,978 ✭✭✭✭irishbucsfan


    snotboogie wrote: »
    Typical Ireland, the only rugby nation not to have a sevens team.
    We do have one. Just ask Felix Jones or Paul Marshall. Or some ex-players like Conor McPhillips or Gary Brown.

    We just don't have one on the series circuit. Don't know if we could afford to do that currently.

    A Dublin 7s weekend would be brilliant for both Irish rugby and the city of Dublin though.

    The women's team are quite good. But those involved might argue a lot of that is from their own initiative.


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    #15
    JustinDee
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,684 ✭✭✭JustinDee


    irishbucsfan wrote: »
    The women's team are quite good. But those involved might argue a lot of that is from their own initiative.
    Have to ask, how so?


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    #16
    sydthebeat
    Subscribers Posts: 41,254 ✭✭✭✭sydthebeat


    JustinDee wrote: »
    "Ireland 'A' in Sevens"?? There is actually no such team.

    oops my bad, just checked, it was rugby league As versus fiji.


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    #17
    irishbucsfan
    Registered Users Posts: 37,978 ✭✭✭✭irishbucsfan


    JustinDee wrote: »
    Have to ask, how so?
    I don't know enough Justin and those I know that do are in Hong Kong so I'll have to plead ignoramce for now and come back to you at a later time!


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    #18
    JustinDee
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,684 ✭✭✭JustinDee


    irishbucsfan wrote: »
    I don't know enough Justin and those I know that do are in Hong Kong so I'll have to plead ignoramce for now and come back to you at a later time!
    Ok doke. Keen to hear how this impression was formed though. Before last year's drive for Women and Sevens, and the Club Sevens from three years ago, there was actually nothing in place and no team.


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    #19
    snotboogie
    Registered Users Posts: 3,570 ✭✭✭snotboogie


    irishbucsfan wrote: »
    We do have one. Just ask Felix Jones or Paul Marshall. Or some ex-players like Conor McPhillips or Gary Brown.

    We just don't have one on the series circuit. Don't know if we could afford to do that currently.

    A Dublin 7s weekend would be brilliant for both Irish rugby and the city of Dublin though.

    The women's team are quite good. But those involved might argue a lot of that is from their own initiative.

    I have a hard time believing that the IRFU is the poorest of the major rugby federations. It's a disgrace that we don't have a sevens team with the Olympics coming up, it was announced years ago. Thats discounting the benefit of having a team on the regular tour or having a major tournament in Dublin or Cork


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    #20
    Hersheys
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,308 ✭✭✭Hersheys


    The Women won the bowl at the HK 7's this morning.

    Fair play to them.


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    #21
    pnpweirdo
    Registered Users Posts: 329 ✭✭pnpweirdo


    We really should have a 7's side only made up of academy players. It would be brilliant experience for the players and hopefully it would help bring some players faster, younger, bigger and stronger. Such a shame not using the seven for this. Something is odiously wrong with blooding in new players.


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    #22
    nice_guy80
    Closed Accounts Posts: 8,723 ✭✭✭nice_guy80


    Wales lost the final vs Fiji

    and we wonder why Wales have so many huge, excellent try scoring wingers? because they are developing them via the sevens


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    #23
    thebaz
    Registered Users Posts: 13,608 ✭✭✭✭thebaz


    no expert on 7s, but wouldnt the likes of Gilroy, Cronin, Madigan, Dom Ryan, mcfadden, hanrahan , fitzgerald, zebo, carr, murray, cooney be handy at it


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    #24
    ormond lad
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,632 ✭✭✭ormond lad


    pnpweirdo wrote: »
    We really should have a 7's side only made up of academy players. It would be brilliant experience for the players and hopefully it would help bring some players faster, younger, bigger and stronger. Such a shame not using the seven for this. Something is odiously wrong with blooding in new players.
    Better off with 7s specialists. the 7s series is during the season. First weekend is in October and the last is in May. We would need the academy players for British and Irish Cup, pro12 games.
    thebaz wrote: »
    no expert on 7s, but wouldnt the likes of Gilroy, Cronin, Madigan, Dom Ryan, mcfadden, hanrahan , fitzgerald, zebo, carr, murray, cooney be handy at it
    They might but if we are to enter 7s world series surely it would be best off to do like every other country and have 7s specialists play in the world series.


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    #25
    pnpweirdo
    Registered Users Posts: 329 ✭✭pnpweirdo


    thebaz wrote: »
    no expert on 7s, but wouldnt the likes of Gilroy, Cronin, Madigan, Dom Ryan, mcfadden, hanrahan , fitzgerald, zebo, carr, murray, cooney be handy at it

    Most or all these players wouldnt be released from club or country. You have months away on the circuit. Each week there is a tournament in a different country. We need younger players playing it. It will be interesting to see what team they will put together for the Olympic qualifiers.


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    #26
    backgreen
    Registered Users Posts: 245 ✭✭backgreen


    pnpweirdo wrote: »
    Most or all these players wouldnt be released from club or country. You have months away on the circuit. Each week there is a tournament in a different country. We need younger players playing it. It will be interesting to see what team they will put together for the Olympic qualifiers.
    it does't look like we will have a mens 7s team for Rio or even the Olympics after
    if we are depending on the current bunch in the irfu


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    #27
    Losty Dublin
    Registered Users Posts: 13,035 ✭✭✭✭Losty Dublin


    nice_guy80 wrote: »
    Wales lost the final vs Fiji

    and we wonder why Wales have so many huge, excellent try scoring wingers? because they are developing them via the sevens

    Did they really?

    The Welsh 7's squad who won in Hong Kong this weekend gone are all fringe, youths or no name players from the Welsh club game. Only one of them has been capped at senior level (Richie Pugh) and even then he has just one cap. Ditto for the English, Kiwi, Wallaby and Scottish squads. Even if you take the time to look at player stats of the back line of the current Welsh 6 Nation's squad, most of their back line didn't come through Sevens at all so your point doesn't bear any fruit.

    At best, sevens is an off season diversion and a warm up game for players; the development potential from it for the 15 a side game is not a hell of a lot all told. As it is, the IRFU have a lot of resources going into the Schools international team, the Academy systems and the U 20 squad and respective provincial leagues linking into the provincial A squads and AIL league; seven's won't do us any good in the scheme of things.


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    #28
    ormond lad
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,632 ✭✭✭ormond lad


    Losty Dublin wrote: »
    Did they really?

    The Welsh 7's squad who won in Hong Kong this weekend gone are all fringe, youths or no name players from the Welsh club game. Only one of them has been capped at senior level (Richie Pugh) and even then he has just one cap. Ditto for the English, Kiwi, Wallaby and Scottish squads. Even if you take the time to look at player stats of the back line of the current Welsh 6 Nation's squad, most of their back line didn't come through Sevens at all so your point doesn't bear any fruit.

    At best, sevens is an off season diversion and a warm up game for players; the development potential from it for the 15 a side game is not a hell of a lot all told. As it is, the IRFU have a lot of resources going into the Schools (and Youths) international teams, the Academy systems and the U 20 squad and respective provincial leagues linking into the provincial A squads and AIL league; seven's won't do us any good in the scheme of things.
    Small edit but I agree with what youre saying. We're better off concentrating on the 15man game dispite the benefits 7s can bring.


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    #29
    irishbucsfan
    Registered Users Posts: 37,978 ✭✭✭✭irishbucsfan


    Losty Dublin wrote: »
    Did they really?

    The Welsh 7's squad who won in Hong Kong this weekend gone are all fringe, youths or no name players from the Welsh club game. Only one of them has been capped at senior level (Richie Pugh) and even then he has just one cap. Ditto for the English, Kiwi, Wallaby and Scottish squads. Even if you take the time to look at player stats of the back line of the current Welsh 6 Nation's squad, most of their back line didn't come through Sevens at all so your point doesn't bear any fruit.

    At best, sevens is an off season diversion and a warm up game for players; the development potential from it for the 15 a side game is not a hell of a lot all told. As it is, the IRFU have a lot of resources going into the Schools international team, the Academy systems and the U 20 squad and respective provincial leagues linking into the provincial A squads and AIL league; seven's won't do us any good in the scheme of things.

    Lee Byrne, James Hook and Alex Cuthbert all played 7s.

    That's just the internationals. Some really good pro club players were developed through 7s as well.

    I think the area they get the most benefit from is scrum half. Loads of really good 9s in Welsh rugby were able to develop fully on the 7s circuit. In fairness Paul Marshall played a bit of 7s for Ireland as well AFAIK.


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    #30
    ArmaniJeanss
    Registered Users Posts: 13,336 ✭✭✭✭ArmaniJeanss


    Losty Dublin wrote: »
    At best, sevens is an off season diversion and a warm up game for players; the development potential from it for the 15 a side game is not a hell of a lot all told. ...... seven's won't do us any good in the scheme of things.

    Why do the merits or not of 7s have to be measured in terms of what it can do for 15s?

    It should be looked at as a seperate entity imo, an international game at which we can be competitive (admittedly this could take 10/20 years because of the head start we've given the rest) which has an Olympic outlet and the benefits/revenues this can bring, a yearly World Championship, and the possibility down the line of Dublin becoming one of the host cities on the circuit.


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    #31
    Zuffer
    Registered Users Posts: 197 ✭✭Zuffer


    Irish fans are great at saying that the IRFU should put more funds into certain areas - be it sevens, womens, Connacht, to name just a few.

    However, we're also great at complaining when they try to raise revenue. I've seen threads here complaining about Aviva naming rights, food and drink at the ground, and ticket prices. I read today that the issue of alcohol sponsorship is back on the government agenda. So the IRFU are getting from all sides.

    To say that 7's could at present be self funding is, I think, naive at best. There has never been a worse time in the history of the professional game to try and get sponsorship. What's out there isn't going to cover the costs. (Also, add this seasons "U20s getting shown on TV over the women's game due to PWC sponsorship" to the IRFU can't win column).

    All that said, if the IRFU were serious about 7s and Rio, or if they thought it would be a big help to the main international team, they'd cut somewhere else and find the money.

    My 2c, I think a view has been taken within the IRFU that 7s and 15s are not natural compliments, but in fact 7s would compete against 15s, and maybe steal away players, supporters and cash. I think they might be right. I'd say Ireland is small enough that if we lost 2 or 3 international standard backs to a full time 7s program, that would hurt the 15 man game. Taken with the costs issue, I'd say that's why the IRFU haven't gone all guns blazing for 7s and Rio.


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