Medical Card Review Form - can anyone clarify a couple of details?

Fogmatic

My spouse got a form to fill in for a random medical card eligability review, and as the family bureauocracy archivist I'm looking out the details needed for it.
I can't find the answers to these queries on the official website(s);

1. Do the accompanyng documents have to be the originals? And if so, will they be returned to us (ready for the next official body that requires them)?
Presumably the question doesn't apply to our bank statements, as we can print them out as many times as we want from the online banking bank website. It's more about whatever we send them as proof of our state pensions, PPS numbers, home insurance expenses etc.

2. The checklist of documents includes 'the relevant E form if you are claiming under E.U. Regulations'. Are we? Any ideas?

3. What will they accept as proof of our PPS numbers? Our state pensions are paid straight into our bank accounts (no paper slips or pension books). The latest candidate I can find is letters to each of us from the Department of Social & Family Affairs about 6 months ago (re a changed rate of state pension), with our PPS numbers printed in them.

4. (Sorry - not really expecting an answer!); Why can't these government departments just talk to the others instead? Or access each others' databases?

mp22

1) usually yes,birth certs ect.Bank statements printed from online ac is ok.

2) No idea

3)Have you got any old P60/P45 knocking around other than that I don't know.

4) data protection act

Fogmatic

Thanks mp22.

This form doesn't ask for our birth certificates (and when a distant pensions office needed them, we were able to take them to our local office for copies we could post, authenticated to show they'd seen the originals. It was only through these forums that we found that out!). Re documents stating our pension amounts & PPS numbers, I guess we'll just send the originals (having scanned them of course), and hope they'll do.

Only one of us has been an employee in this country (apart from community employment schemes); that P45 is about 15 years old. We do each have letters from the Revenue with our PPS numbers in the headings, from 12 or so years ago, when we were self-employed on back-to-work schemes.

I was forgetting about the Data Protection Act. I hadn't realised it affected communication between such closely related government units.

Fogmatic

Rather than risk missing the review deadline because of not sending the right documents the first time, I thought I'd better try the email contact on the HSE website, with the precise questions we have.

Any experience of this out there? It's only been 2 days since I did it, but it would be useful to know how long I should wait for a response before looking for some other way of finding out.

eastbono

I think item 2 may be in relation to if you are claiming a pension or welfare payment from some other EU institution.
I dont know why they need proof of your pps numbers as you are already a medical card holder and they should have this on file.

Item 4....government departments do share information... just not direct access to databases due to data protection plus government departments would have different databases not accessible to all departments... e.g. different programmes and packages plus it wouldnt be workable with so many people able to access these systems... you would have massive crashing and slow down.

Fogmatic

Thanks for your help eastbono (sorry, I've only just seen your posting - notification got lost in the ether I guess!).

Sounds as if item 2 might be relevant then. We're both on Irish non-contributary state pension, but spouse is also getting a small UK contributory state pension, and the UK people have sent me a form to find out if I'm entitled to anything based on his contributions.

I understand the difficulties re information sharing. Maybe the HSE will accept a scan of the medical card they themselves issued as proof of PPS no.! (Who knows?).

It's been a week since I emailed my questions to the HSE via their website (to clientregistration@hse.ie), and there's been no sign that they've even received it. I'm now running out of time to do the form before the deadline so as not to lose the medical card. So here's what I emailed them (plus a new question!), just in case anyone out there can help;

---

I'm helping my husband to find the correct documents to send with his Medical Card and GP visit Card Review form.
We have some queries about these, and I can't find the answers on the official websites (or anywhere else); could you either point me to the right URLs/leaflets, or clarify them for me?

1. Are current accounts included in Investments (Details of income, C)? Is it a statement showing the up-to-date balance that you need, and is a printout via online banking acceptable?

2. The checklist asks for proof of our PPS numbers, giving a tax cert, P60, P45, payslip, or social welfare book as examples. How recent do they need to be, and what are the other acceptable types of documents?

3. In what circumstances is an E Form needed?

---

New question!;
If I get the form in on time but have guessed wrong about the documents required, will we lose the medical card through sending the correct ones after the deadline?

aaaaaaaahhhhhh

Can someone tell me can you get this form online?
I've searched everywhere

mp22

http://www.hse.ie/eng/services/list/1/schemes/mc/over70s/MC1A2014.pdf

mrsbyrne

Are you sure you want over 70? Heres under 70.
https://www.sspcrs.ie/portal/medapp/mc-application-form-u70.pdf

aaaaaaaahhhhhh

Its the "Review" form for my grandad that I'm looking for.
Is the review form and first time application form the same thing?

Fogmatic

I don't know; the Health Board website isn't the easiest place to find answers, and the nuts & bolts of medical card application/reviews seem a bit shrouded in mystery. The 'help' notes on the forms are ambiguous and not detailed enough (give me some good old legal Terms & Conditions any day!).This page of the Citizens Information website may be a more useful starting point than the HSE's site;
http://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/health/entitlement_to_health_services/medical_card.html

To ask for a review of an ongoing medical card (e.g. when circumstances change), the Health Board website only seems to give a postal address. It's on this page http://www.hse.ie/eng/services/list/1/schemes/mc/about/reviewsandappeals/

When the HSE decided to review our medical cards, they told us in a letter, enclosing the form.

Kristopherus

aaaaaaaahhhhhh wrote: »

Its the "Review" form for my grandad that I'm looking for.
Is the review form and first time application form the same thing?

The review form is sent out automatically approx 3 months before the expiry date on the Medical Card. If he's over 70, then he should hold a farly log-dated card and the Review Form he will get is a very simple one which basically asks him to confirm he's still around.

Gael23

My circumstances might soon change which will mean I'm entitled to a GP only card. How do I go about this when it arises? My card has an expiry date this september anyway but is always renewed every year.

mrsbyrne

ryanf1 wrote: »

My circumstances might soon change which will mean I'm entitled to a GP only card. How do I go about this when it arises? My card has an expiry date this september anyway but is always renewed every year.

You do nothing till you hear from them. They will send you a review form soon.

Fogmatic

Hello again, Mrsbyrne! Handy that someone revived the topic, as I have a further question.

I got that application in ok last year, and found we were above the financial limit for either card (missing GP Visit Cards by a narrow margin).
Then I received the answers I wanted from the HSE, which would have saved some time (I'll post the info here later, in case it helps anyone).

Since then, our circumstances have changed, from no entitlement to perhaps being entitled to a GP Visit Card. So I want to try again, and by now I presume we need an application from scratch (not a review).

What form do we need for this? I can't find any clear answer about it (and my copy of last year's Medical Card and GP Visit Review Form, that came in the post, doesn't seem to have any reference number to avoid!).

And who do we contact to get one posted to us?

Yes, I know about the online application facility, and am in fact very familiar with it. But I've never been able to get that website to work.
I tried it again recently with the roughly correct new figures, hoping to get some idea if it was worth going through the whole application process (with the investment of only the hour or so needed to get the figures together). The trick it chose to play on me this time was to refuse to save any income figures (and so of course to announce that we were entitled to full medical cards).

mrsbyrne

You just need a Medical Card form (it is the same form for medical card and GP visit card).
You can get one at your local Health Centre
http://www.hse.ie/eng/services/list/2/healthcentres/
your local Citizens Information Centre
http://centres.citizensinformation.ie/
or you can ring 1890 252 919 and they will be glad to post one out to you.

Fogmatic

Thanks mrsbyrne (I never knew I could just get one at our Health Centre).

Gael23

im entitled to one as I am in reciept of a qualyfing SW Payment but I have some savings. How much can you have before you lose your card?

Kristopherus

ryanf1 wrote: »

im entitled to one as I am in reciept of a qualyfing SW Payment but I have some savings. How much can you have before you lose your card?

Have a look at this. A little light reading for a wet Saturday:). http://www.hse.ie/eng/services/list/1/schemes/mc/forms/assessmentguidelines.pdf

Gael23

Kristopherus wrote: »

Have a look at this. A little light reading for a wet Saturday:). http://www.hse.ie/eng/services/list/1/schemes/mc/forms/assessmentguidelines.pdf

I thought the amount for under 70 was lower. I dont have anything to worry about in that case

Fogmatic

ryanf1 wrote: »

I thought the amount for under 70 was lower. I dont have anything to worry about in that case

Am I right in understanding that you're over 70, bringing you under the higher threshold?

I only got to our health centre yesterday (car problems). The application form I've picked up looks very different from the review form that arrived by post last year. (For a start, this application form has a number (MC1), making it easier to talk about clearly). It looks the same as its online version (at 1st glance, at least).

It's free of most of the ambiguities in last year's review form (the things I had to ask the HSE to explain).
That form had red borders, and was titled 'Medical Card and GP Visit Card Review Form'.
Can anyone tell me whether it and form MC1 are one and the same thing, which has been updated?
If they're two different things, has the review form the HSE was sending out as of 7/2/2013 had an update since? (If so, things are looking up!).

Gael23

Fogmatic wrote: »

Am I right in understanding that you're over 70, bringing you under the higher threshold?
.

No i'm 23

Fogmatic

Sorry ryan - (I got the wrong end of the stick!):o

wmpdd3

Fogmatic wrote: »

Am I right in understanding that you're over 70, bringing you under the higher threshold?

I only got to our health centre yesterday (car problems). The application form I've picked up looks very different from the review form that arrived by post last year. (For a start, this application form has a number (MC1), making it easier to talk about clearly). It looks the same as its online version (at 1st glance, at least).

It's free of most of the ambiguities in last year's review form (the things I had to ask the HSE to explain).
That form had red borders, and was titled 'Medical Card and GP Visit Card Review Form'.
Can anyone tell me whether it and form MC1 are one and the same thing, which has been updated?
If they're two different things, has the review form the HSE was sending out as of 7/2/2013 had an update since? (If so, things are looking up!).

this one?

http://www.hse.ie/eng/services/list/1/schemes/mc/forms/Medical_Card_GP_Visit_Card_Application_Form.pdf


My experience is that the initial form is nice and easy to fill out and the first checklist of sheets looks achievable, its the revised list of sheets required once you apply thats not so easy. I sent 47 sheets of paper off in the end!

I filled it out online and printed it off, got doc to sign and sent if off.

https://www.sspcrs.ie/portal/medapponline/

Gael23

So does this review mean you essentially have to apply all over again?

Fogmatic

wmpdd3 wrote: »

this one?

http://www.hse.ie/eng/services/list/1/schemes/mc/forms/Medical_Card_GP_Visit_Card_Application_Form.pdf

Well - almost!
That is, it seems functionally the same (at a quick glance) as the one I picked up from the doc's, and they have the same form number (MC1), style & colours (and Plain English logo).
But apart from a difference in the order of the sections, they have different FAQs in the help & information section, so I'd suggest getting/looking at both versions of the form, just to get both sets of FAQs!
One difference is that the online version has some info on when applications under EU regulations are relevant, which my paper version doesn't.
Neither did the review form the HSE sent out last year - I spent hours trying to find out (it was hard to find any clear info).
I don't know if there's also another version of that?

wmpdd3

Whatever one it is fill it in and get it to them asap.

WE sent ours 17th of march and they sent it back as the payslips are now out of date and they want ones from march till may.

It took them until last friday to get the letter back to me so I could send the copies of payslips. Hoping it will be back to us before June but there is no guarantee that they won't just request more info.

I always send photocopies and put the medical card reference number and 1 of 6, 2 of 6 etc on each sheet. I also I also send by registered post, even though it is just signed by the postmaster at the gpo where the PO box it.

wmpdd3

ryanf1 wrote: »

So does this review mean you essentially have to apply all over again?

Yeah pretty much the pre filled out form just has your name and address and kids PRSI numbers on it, you fill out the rest.

livemusic4life

I got my review form a few months ago. Just sign and date if there are no changes and send it back.

I'm 32 and on disability and got it for 3 years

Fogmatic

wmpdd3 wrote: »

I always send photocopies and put the medical card reference number and 1 of 6, 2 of 6 etc on each sheet. I also I also send by registered post, even though it is just signed by the postmaster at the gpo where the PO box it.

Yes, 'originals or copies?' was one of the things I had to ask the HSE last year (there was no clue on that review form).
Our form ended up with numerous highlights & notes in various colours (especially from having to clarify our answers because of not being sure what they wanted). And numbered *s to match the 10 numbered enclosures (not counting the seperate numbered list of enclosures). (It was like running a business again!).
I only found out afterwards that some of those enclosures were unnecessary, when the HSE eventually replied, saying current bank accounts didn't have to be included in the means.

And also saying the mysterious (to me) EU regulations did apply in our case;
"An E form is required if you have any social welfare entitlement in another EU country. For e.g. if you are in receipt of a pension or other social welfare benefit in another EU country. The country itself will issue you the appropriate E form when you contact them in relation to this."
We do have a little pension coming in from the UK, but of course by the time I'd contacted the UK pension people to say 'what's this E Form, how does the thing work, and can it be done by email?', and they eventually replied with the contact details of the department whose bag it was, I'd had to send the review form in. But I wasn't asked for the E form, and eventually realised why (one of us had been employed in this country, therefore there were Irish pension contributions, therefore we didn't meet all the criteria).

Hmm - better just check that again before our new application.....

puma90

I didnt get sent a review form but my card is up soon. i just got a form asking if my circumstances have changed and to download a form if they have? I cant find a review form online and I dont have a pin to do it online?? Soo annoying

Fogmatic

Par for the course I'm afraid, puma90!

Is the 'Review online' button on this page what you're looking for?
https://www.sspcrs.ie/portal/medapp/
I don't know what info it requires (after the initial page for entering PPSN), but my spouse & I were picked for a random check 2-3 years ago, and that review form needed all details of income & relevant outgoings, with recent proof of all amounts & sources (and of PRSI), and took several weeks to process. (As far as I know, it was the same as a review form requested by a member of the public, but I don't have my copy to hand with the form number).
Though an online application will let you know the result immediately, the documentary proof copies still have to be sent by post (unless it's changed since then).

The medical card system still seems to have some ambiguities & conflicting guidelines (Maybe the Data Protection Act gets in the way of being joined-up).
I find the Citizens Information website a better starting point re government agencies than some of their own websites (it gives clear overviews & links).

I've always found 'Change in circumstances' a bit ambiguous, apart from age thresholds etc (whose means & expenses are exactly the same from one year to the next? When is a change big enough for e.g. the HSE to bother with?). (But then badly designed forms are something of a hobby-horse in this house!).

If unsure of anything, it might save any unneccessary time & work to ring the HSE right at the start. There's a number here (paragraph re changed circumstances). It may be just for requesting a form, but maybe it can get through to a person.
http://www.hse.ie/eng/services/list/1/schemes/mc/about/reviewsandappeals/

I once asked some questions via an email form on the HSE website; I got a helpful reply, but about 3 weeks later.