Boiler not firing up [Firebird]

shane0007

jimf wrote: »

shane could you elaborate a little on item 3 please my understanding is the control box takes its control voltage ie 53v from a built in transformer in the motor if this transformer were to go faulty does this then mean that the voltage now going back to control box is 220/240v or is it zero voltage if 220/240 surely this would fry the control box

The white wire is FROM the motor. It should read 50V +/- 3V. If no voltage is present then the motor is faulty.

jimf

shane0007 wrote: »

The white wire is FROM the motor. It should read 50V +/- 3V. If no voltage is present then the motor is faulty.

thanks shane

as you already stated this problem is rare i have yet to encounter it in 4 years but was just wondering what to expect if and when i come across 1

shane0007

Symptom would be continuous running burner without going to lock out or attempting to fire. White wire will read zero voltage. Pump motor will be running as it is receiving 230V but it is not seeing back 50V +/- 3V.

If anybody does come across it, please do not chuck the motor. Let me know and I will take it off your hands.

Dtp79

shane0007 wrote: »

Symptom would be continuous running burner without going to lock out or attempting to fire. White wire will read zero voltage. Pump motor will be running as it is receiving 230V but it is not seeing back 50V +/- 3V.

If anybody does come across it, please do not chuck the motor. Let me know and I will take it off your hands.

You fix them?

shane0007

Dtp79 wrote: »

You fix them?

No

monthehoops

Billy Bunting wrote: »

He's not comfortable doing that, he'll pull the other end out but the philips screw is a little worrying.

He need the man, the Oftec man!!

I'm not comfortable going near mains power. Thanks though, you've been a great help in the thread.

TPM

monthehoops wrote: »

I'm not comfortable going near mains power. Thanks though, you've been a great help in the thread.

If you are not comfortable doing anything, you are doing exactly the right thing by staying away from it. Its all to easy for something to go wrong specially when someone is feeling uneasy.

Billy Bunting

monthehoops wrote: »

I'm not comfortable going near mains power. Thanks though, you've been a great help in the thread.

You came asking for help, as early as post #2 you were asked to carry out a simple test to prove an issue, you replied that you would do so later, you were even given a highlighted picture of the conection, later last night you return and start guessing and giving conflicting infomation, . I'm sorry but as i previously stated following the instructions and answering the questions are the only way you can be helped, the people here trying to help are professionals and use guessing as a last resort, if your not comfortable with electrics then you need to get someone in who is.

monthehoops

Billy Bunting wrote: »

You came asking for help, as early as post #2 you were asked to carry out a simple test to prove an issue, you replied that you would do so later, you were even given a highlighted picture of the conection, later last night you return and start guessing and giving conflicting infomation, . I'm sorry but as i previously stated following the instructions and answering the questions are the only way you can be helped, the people here trying to help are professionals and use guessing as a last resort, if your not comfortable with electrics then you need to get someone in who is.

Yes, I said I'd do it later. Then I saw a post stating that if I wasn't comfortable with mains power then I should get someone else to do it. I'm not asking anyone to guess anything, I've made up my own mind on the info I've gotten that it's the photocell. If it turns out not to be then it's something beyond my knowledge. You entered the conversation with attitude immediately. Everyone else was ok about it.

If I was a boiler ninja like you then maybe it wouldn't be so difficult to explain the scenario. But then we all can't be expert in that field can we. I doubt for example that you know anything about virtualisation, software defined networking or disk technologies but I wouldn't rub it in your face for asking a question about it.

Finally, where do boiler ninjas train? Or do they even train? Are they simply formed from antimatter?

Thanks to everyone else for their help on this. Like any profession there's one or two know it alls.

Billy Bunting

I would imagine a smart ninja like you could use you virtualisation software to fix your burner, good luck with it.

shane0007

monthehoops wrote: »

I doubt for example that you know anything about virtualisation, software defined networking or disk technologies but I wouldn't rub it in your face for asking a question about it.

Now that you mention it.... Lol
Just kidding!

monthehoops wrote: »

Finally, where do boiler ninjas train? Or do they even train? Are they simply formed from antimatter?

Yes they CAN train but many don't. For oil it is not law as yet but hopefully in the not so, it will be.

If you do not feel comfortable, I certainly do not take offence that you did not go at the electrics of the boiler. Always best practice of safety first.
IMHO, you won't go far wrong with replacing the photocell.

monthehoops

shane0007 wrote: »

If you do not feel comfortable, I certainly do not take offence that you did not go at the electrics of the boiler. Always best practice of safety first.
IMHO, you won't go far wrong with replacing the photocell.

Thanks Shane, your input was excellent. I've seen the guy service the boiler before so kind of knew my way around it and had trouble with the photocell before so suspected this. I just don't like going near anything to do with electricity because I'm clueless there and that's how accidents happen.

310

bet u its control box

jimf

id stick with photocell until proven otherwise then coil and then control box

Wearb

310 wrote: »

bet u its control box

Is that just a guess, or have we missed something in our diagnosis.
I don't mean that as a criticism, but I am always trying to improve my own diagnosis.

Wearb

jimf wrote: »

id stick with photocell until proven otherwise then coil and then control box

I would stick with the cheaper options also, unless the brass joiner has spotted something that we haven't.

jimf

Wearb wrote: »

Is that just a guess, or have we missed something in our diagnosis.
I don't mean that as a criticism, but I am always trying to improve my own diagnosis.

but I am always trying to improve my own diagnosis.[/QUOTE]

that makes 2 off us

monthehoops

Well it was the photocell in the end. Replacement part arrived today. Cut the power to everywhere and replaced it. Thanks to everyone who helped.

shane0007

monthehoops wrote: »

Well it was the photocell in the end. Replacement part arrived today. Cut the power to everywhere and replaced it. Thanks to everyone who helped.

Thanks for letting us know. Glad it was an easy fix.

monthehoops

So you know. This is what was happening:

Boiler was continuously trying to fire. It wouldn't go to lockout. If I pressed reset then once my finger was taken off the reset button it would immediately continue as though I hadn't pressed reset at all.

Removed the photocell. Boiler tried to fire, failed and then went to lockout.

Once I added the new photocell, had to let some air out of the system and it fired then almost immediately.

The old photocell is slightly brown so am guessing it "blew"? That's a guess by the way, not asking anyone to tell me what happened

Wearb

monthehoops wrote: »

So you know. This is what was happening:

Boiler was continuously trying to fire. It wouldn't go to lockout. If I pressed reset then once my finger was taken off the reset button it would immediately continue as though I hadn't pressed reset at all.

Removed the photocell. Boiler tried to fire, failed and then went to lockout.

Once I added the new photocell, had to let some air out of the system and it fired then almost immediately.

The old photocell is slightly brown so am guessing it "blew"? That's a guess by the way, not asking anyone to tell me what happened

Really glad you got it sorted. Don't know how air got in there, but fingers crossed, that it was just a coincidence.

Arsenium

Hi there,

Came across this thread and it sounds a bit familiar to what happened me at the weekend.

My boiler was working away fine, I noticed a radiator wasnt heating and it was shut off (on both sides) so I opened both sides and it started to heat. Not really well though so I took an air lock off it. It started to heat really well then but after a few mins all the rads started to cool down.

I checked the boiler and the reset button was lit up. I pressed it and it tried to fire but failed. Did it again a few times and eventually it fired. Stayed going for about an hour and then died again. Resetting again for a while, it fired again. This continued over the weekend and now it wont fire at all.

I press the reset button and there is just a little click when it is supposed to fire then it stops and the red reset button lights up again.

I'm just wondering firstly if it's a coincidence that this happened when I turned on the last rad and secondly, what's the likely issue. I'm just hoping it can be fixed and doesnt need to be replaced.

Wearb

Arsenium wrote: »

Hi there,

Came across this thread and it sounds a bit familiar to what happened me at the weekend.

My boiler was working away fine, I noticed a radiator wasnt heating and it was shut off (on both sides) so I opened both sides and it started to heat. Not really well though so I took an air lock off it. It started to heat really well then but after a few mins all the rads started to cool down.

I checked the boiler and the reset button was lit up. I pressed it and it tried to fire but failed. Did it again a few times and eventually it fired. Stayed going for about an hour and then died again. Resetting again for a while, it fired again. This continued over the weekend and now it wont fire at all.

I press the reset button and there is just a little click when it is supposed to fire then it stops and the red reset button lights up again.

I'm just wondering firstly if it's a coincidence that this happened when I turned on the last rad and secondly, what's the likely issue. I'm just hoping it can be fixed and doesnt need to be replaced.

Radiator had nothing to do with it.
There is some fault with the burner and it will need checking and fixing by someone who know about these things. Is it long since it was serviced? Have you lots of oil?

Arsenium

Wearb wrote: »

Radiator had nothing to do with it.
There is some fault with the burner and it will need checking and fixing by someone who know about these things. Is it long since it was serviced? Have you lots of oil?

Hi, Yes it has plenty of oil. Only got a delivery last week. It's a while since it was serviced, although I did get the system flushed recently and the plumber did a bit of maintenance on it from what I recall.

Plumber is due to come this week to do another bit of work for us anyway so hopefully he can resolve it then. I have a mate who is an electrician so maybe he could help out.

I guess I was just hoping it's a case of replacing a part....not the entire boiler :-(

Wearb

Arsenium wrote: »

Hi, Yes it has plenty of oil. Only got a delivery last week. It's a while since it was serviced, although I did get the system flushed recently and the plumber did a bit of maintenance on it from what I recall.

Plumber is due to come this week to do another bit of work for us anyway so hopefully he can resolve it then. I have a mate who is an electrician so maybe he could help out.

I guess I was just hoping it's a case of replacing a part....not the entire boiler :-(

At this stage I certainly wouldn't envisage having to replace the boiler, but when it is up and running again I would check to see if it has any cold spots near the bottom. That is because you needed to have system flushed (meaning you probably had sludge in it) and to check that some didn't remain in the boiler.

However that would not cause the current problem with your boiler. As usual a photo might help people here to spot something. Take one of the boiler with the burner included. A photocell cleaning might get you going for a few days until the plumber arrives.

jimf

at a guess id say the fuel pump on your burner is acting up it may also be the capicator

TPM

Arsenium wrote: »

I checked the boiler and the reset button was lit up. I pressed it and it tried to fire but failed. Did it again a few times and eventually it fired. Stayed going for about an hour and then died again. Resetting again for a while, it fired again. This continued over the weekend and now it wont fire at all.

as said it could be the fuel pump, capacitor or the coil.
could also be the nozzle badly worn or blocked, or the boiler choked up with soot.

Arsenium wrote: »

Resetting again for a while, it fired again. This continued over the weekend and now it wont fire at all.

I press the reset button and there is just a little click when it is supposed to fire then it stops and the red reset button lights up again.

I hope that isnt the control box after failing from the continual resetting.

I also doubt that it will need complete replacing from the information given so far

Arsenium

Thanks for the info guys. Plumber has just left. Photocell jet black, slight improvement when it was cleaned. Replaced the starter, no improvement. Measured the pressure on the oil pump, zero. So a replacement pump required. Costly but at least I'm not on the hunt for a new boiler.

Its amazing how quick a skilled tradesman with the proper tools can diagnose a problem.

jimf

Arsenium wrote: »

Thanks for the info guys. Plumber has just left. Photocell jet black, slight improvement when it was cleaned. Replaced the starter, no improvement. Measured the pressure on the oil pump, zero. So a replacement pump required. Costly but at least I'm not on the hunt for a new boiler.

Its amazing how quick a skilled tradesman with the proper tools can diagnose a problem.

good to hear you got sorted did he give it a full service change nozzle then do a fga test on the emissions and provide you with a printout

Arsenium

jimf wrote: »

good to hear you got sorted did he give it a full service change nozzle then do a fga test on the emissions and provide you with a printout

At 10:15 at night I thought that might be pushing it :-)