The myth of the "welfare scrounger"

The King of Moo

theUbiq wrote: »

Maybe you're on the dole just like your old man?

Grow up if you want people to take you seriously, for heaven's sake.

theUbiq wrote: »

Couldn't tell you since numbers aren't freely available..

I very much doubt the single mothers I'm referring to ever worked a day... Remember Kevin Myers article about the MOBs?? I've seen these people when living in a southside suburb recently... No rent, a car and four kids running wild. It's a lifestyle choice.

Ok, so you're just throwing out vague statements about people you've seen, without any substantial information.
Tell me this: you saw an unspecified number of single mothers living off welfare recently, but can you tell me how many single mothers working to look after their children you've seen, and how many ordinary, nondescript people looking for work you've seen?

theUbiq

The King of Moo wrote: »

Grow up if you want people to take you seriously, for heaven's sake.



Ok, so you're just throwing out vague statements about people you've seen, without any substantial information.
Tell me this: you saw an unspecified number of single mothers living off welfare recently, but can you tell me how many single mothers working to look after their children you've seen, and how many ordinary, nondescript people looking for work you've seen?[/Quote

I've no problem with people or families that genuinely require assistance from the state... These are not the people I'm referring to.

I've no interest in you taking me seriously.. You seem to live in some fantasy land where everyone claiming dole or a benefit of some kind is honest and genuine. They are not unfortunately. It happens in every country with a generous social welfare system.

Bannasidhe

CJC999 wrote: »

Agree. They get almost 3 times as much here as they do in the uk so there is no incentive to get a job. They also have a greater prosecution rate in the uk and heavier fines and sanctions. Here someone is rarely prosecuted and when they are it's at Great expense to the tax payer and the offender gets off with a paltry fine which they're allowed to pay at rate of a few euro a week over years rather than a hard hit fine that would deter them in future.

The system here is nothing like that in the uk.

CJC999 wrote: »

Sorry, those on welfare in the UK.

Really?

The King of Moo

theUbiq wrote: »

I've no problem with people or families that genuinely require assistance from the state... These are not the people I'm referring to.

I've no interest in you taking me seriously.. You seem to live in some fantasy land where everyone claiming dole or a benefit of some kind is honest and genuine. They are not unfortunately. It happens in every country with a generous social welfare system.

You're making things too simple: I never said anything of the sort. Any system will have people trying to cheat it, but I think the majority of claimants are genuine and I've no reason to believe otherwise.
Like many people, you're focusing on the few who do cheat the system and are easily spotted (not as many people seem to complain about men on the dole, as they're not as easily spotted as the single mothers with prams) without acknowledging or realising that they're a minority.

It should also be pointed out that there are much bigger costs to the taxpayer (TDs and their consultants' wages, blanket bank guarantees for example) than long-term welfare recipients.

carpejugulum

Bannasidhe wrote: »

Linky?


We are 5 years into a global recession.

Being in receipt of unemployment for 1 year is considered 'long-term'.

Hardly surprising many people are 'long-term' now is it?

here

Again, the main bulk of long term unemployed is statistically considered not in employment.

kneemos

carpejugulum wrote: »

here

Again, the main bulk of long term unemployed is statistically considered not in employment.

Fifty thousand long term in the boom is two and a half percent of the workforce if my sums are right,most of which would be drug or drink dependant and either incapable of work or unable to get employed.

wexie

carpejugulum wrote: »

here

Again, the main bulk of long term unemployed is statistically considered not in employment.

long term unemployed people are statistically not in employment?

errr..... what

Tom_Cruise

Minimum wage jobs aren't worth taking up for a lot of people on welfare, especially if you have to travel any distance.

Rent allowance, medical card and a guaranteed income every week for doing nothing can be a whole lot more enticing than having to work 39 hours a week and more than likely only having an extra 50-60 euros to show for it (depending on circumstance), so you could argue that people who choose to stay on welfare are in fact making the best decision.

carpejugulum

wexie wrote: »

long term unemployed people are statistically not in employment?

errr..... what

If you are not considered part of the workforce, you are not officially unemployed.

KwackerJack

Single mothers :

€180 for themselves + €29.80 per dependent

Children's allowance of €130 each for 1st and 2nd child

Rent Allowance of €520 per month ( 1 parent 2 kids in Westmeath) Rates vary for location!!

Medical cards

Fuel allowance

Travel allowance

+ more depending on your situation

Now if a single mother is truly dependent on social welfare that is perfectly understandable BUT how many are living with fathers/ partners or receiving money from fathers/partners living elsewhere that has not been declared to the social welfare??

For single mother who need it, they deserve it

For single mothers who are getting this and receiving payments from whoever else, well this needs to be clamped down.

So if you have a single mother with 2 kids in Westmeath you will be getting in and around €410.10 per week, that is the mothers payment, kids, children's allowance and rent allowance.

Does not include any other payments that the mother may be to.

A good number of people working only get in the region of 410 (after prsi and that usc crap) per week and they have to pay rent/ mortgage/ car cost etc

http://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/social_welfare/social_welfare_payments/social_welfare_payments_to_families_and_children/one_parent_family_payment.html

http://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/social_welfare/social_welfare_payments/supplementary_welfare_schemes/rent_supplement.html

suicide_circus

Tom_Cruise wrote: »

Minimum wage jobs aren't worth taking up for a lot of people on welfare, especially if you have to travel any distance.

Rent allowance, medical card and a guaranteed income every week for doing nothing can be a whole lot more enticing than having to work 39 hours a week and more than likely only having an extra 50-60 euros to show for it (depending on circumstance), so you could argue that people who choose to stay on welfare are in fact making the best decision.

Correct.
However, this decision should be taken out of the hands of those who have never worked or paid prsi.

Gatling

And these *professional lone mammies* ,believe there hard done by and should be actually getting more money ,

* not to be confused with professional working mothers who prove that the state is not responsible for there getting pregnant,

Esb paid for ,rent,paid for ,clothing paid for,socializing paid for ,holidays and weekend away paid for

Sooooo hard done by

Roisy7

The fact people are quoting Kevin Myers just shows how bloody ignorant they are. I genuinely hope they end up with a daughter who gets pregnant at 16 and enjoy spending time with their 'bastard' grandchild. FFS.

I am the daughter of a single parent. My mother was 33 when she had me. She was on welfare until she actually found a job, which wasn't that easy in a small town. She's worked on and off for as long as I can remember, cleaning jobs, pub work, etc etc despite the fact she has a degree in Italian and French. She's been working in a supermarket for the last five years, before that in a pub, before that in a CE scheme etc etc. I am not working, I finished my Masters last year. I HATE being on the dole. I hate standing in the social welfare office, it's been one of the most degrading experiences of my life. I am hoping to go abroad with TEFL. I did five years in college for what seems ****ing nothing at the moment.

I am her only child. That's not unusual, most single parents have just one kid. One parent payment now includes the widow's pension. Damn mooching war widows.

In 2009, the number of lone parents under 20 in receipt of payment was 1.7%. 3% of lone parents receiving payment are men. You never hear about them though.

18% of all families are lone parent; most of them are working, 15% are headed by the father. The rate of people receiving payment has increased, but then of course the country is in a wee bit of feduciary trouble.

I did an essay on this in college, I can't find the stats now but the vast majority of lone parents had one or two children. I may try and root it out later. They also had been in long-term relationships that failed.

Here are some stats for ye all: http://www.combatpoverty.ie/povertyinireland/oneparentfamilies.htm

http://www.treoir.ie/policy-statistics.php

Research shows that the teen pregnancy rate is dropping in Ireland. http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/teenage-pregnancy-levels-at-lowest-since-1966-cso-report-28902205.html

YES, there are people defrauding the system. I've seen them at my local social welfare office. But targeting all people with the same brush is ridiculous. The misogyny about single mothers is flabbergasting. Jesus Christ. Relationships break down, **** happens. Most single mothers were in committed relationships that failed. You try bringing a kid up on your own, see how easy it is. No one in their right mind would set out to get pregnant, put their body through nine months of **** just for a mouldy council house.

I think I would rather the paltry payment go to the odd lunatic who thinks that's a good idea rather than go back to how we dealt with single mothers in the past. Although I suppose the likes of Kevin Myers would have gleaming crisp bed linen, and that's all that matters.

Gongoozler

Its pitiful the amount of people in here who have no idea how the welfare system actually works.
Not everyone who gets jsa or one parent allowance is automatically entitled to things like fuel allowance medical card etc. You dont get signed up for all these when you qualify. They're all assessed individually.

And if you get a job you dont automatically lose any benefits,again your income is.assessed.
And by the way if you're unemployed for more than a year,and have a medical card you may get to keep it for up to three years if you get a job.

Not everyone getting help is a scrounger. There are thousands of people leaving the country because they want to have options.