Testosterone Test Results

Jasksta

Okay, so I finally convinced my gp to take bloods and test my testosterone levels.

Got the results back this morning and he said they were normal.

Here's what the report says:

Testosterone 14.0 nmol/L (9.9 - 52.4)

Have absolutely no idea what these numbers mean, any advice is welcomed!

btkm8unsl0w5r4

It means you have a normal testerone level (normal is 8.8 - 36.7 nmol/l according to the internet) for a male.

Jasksta

8.8 - 36.7 nmol/l is the normal range?

I don't know, so even you are at the lower end of the range you are still considered normal when in fact your testosterone is still very low when compared to the higher end of the range. I imagine a guy with 8.8 would feel a lot different than a guy with 36.7?

Just doesn't seem right to me.

btkm8unsl0w5r4

Normal Range, means if you within the range your normal. Its like being normal height, somebody between 5'2 and 6'4 is normal, if your 5'2 and want to be taller thats one thing but your not abnormally short.

Normal values are the range within 95% of people are, as per this graph,


A lot of hormone tests and blood test have these large spreads of normal ranges, the fact that your at the lower end of the range means nothing. You have normal testerone levels from a medical perspective. You might find that the level changes with time of day, activity levels, sexual activity etc so you might be higher at some points, thats why the range is used.

Seems the result was not the one you were hoping for? Maybe your GP would discuss this with you further?

Jasksta

Knox Fancy Sorceress wrote: »

Normal Range, means if you within the range your normal. Its like being normal height, somebody between 5'2 and 6'4 is normal, if your 5'2 and want to be taller thats one thing but your not abnormally short.

Normal values are the range within 95% of people are, as per this graph,


A lot of hormone tests and blood test have these large spreads of normal ranges, the fact that your at the lower end of the range means nothing. You have normal testerone levels from a medical perspective. You might find that the level changes with time of day, activity levels, sexual activity etc so you might be higher at some points, thats why the range is used.

Seems the result was not the one you were hoping for? Maybe your GP would discuss this with you further?

Very Good description there.. and you're right it's not the result I was hoping for, was absolutely convinced my test levels were low. Have all the symptoms of low test and have done for quite some time now.

Now, I'm left here scratching my head wondering what is going on?

btkm8unsl0w5r4

Well is almost as good to rule something out as the problem. I would think your best thing is to go to your GP again, explain your symptoms and concerns, tell them how its effecting your life. Dont tell the GP what tests to do or what you think it is, as doctors are resistant to being told their jobs by the internet. You tend to find things on the internet that are very uncommon, remember common things are common.

Get the GP to rule out physical causes of your symptoms (partially done already) and then deal with what's left. I see from a previous post of your that the GP said it was "all in your head". Indeed der internet symptoms of low testosterone are also the symptoms of some common mood disorders. Indeed I could say I have had a number of the symptoms during several points in my life also (mostly caused by being overweight). Remember while there may be a physical cause, that psychological causes are equally as valid and real, and are very amenable to treatment. Have a open mind, and hopefully a GP with an open mind too.

Best of luck, and when in doubt do squats.

Scuba Ste

Knox Fancy Sorceress wrote: »

It means you have a normal testerone level (normal is 8.8 - 36.7 nmol/l according to the internet) for a male.

If that's the normal range then it is fair to say he's at the lower end of normal. Noting wrong with wanting more optimal levels.

This blog did a few pieces on test levels, it might be useful OP.

Gummy Panda

There is a more detailed blood test you can get. I saw it when someone's results was posted on ukm. He was experiencing symptoms of low test. He was in the lower normal range and was pushing an endo for trt.

Doug Cartel

Jasksta wrote: »

Here's what the report says:

Testosterone 14.0 nmol/L (9.9 - 52.4)

Knox Fancy Sorceress wrote: »

normal is 8.8 - 36.7 nmol/l according to the internet

I know nothing about testosterone levels, treatment, or anything like that, but...

If that "(9.9 - 52.4)" in the reading represents a confidence interval, then you might actually have above normal testosterone. With any of these tests, the results aren't perfectly accurate. You're talking about measuring tiny amounts of molecules in large volumes of other molecules. Basically it's a bit like trying to measure something a few millimetres across using a standard ruler. You're not going to be able to give an exact figure with dead certainty, but you could give a good guess.

That 14.0 nmol/L reading is their best guess. A well informed guess, but still a guess.

If the (9.9 - 52.4) is a confidence interval then it represents the range of values that they are 90% (or some other %, I don't know) the real value lies between.

The way I would read that report is as follows: "We think your testosterone levels are probably at about 14.0 nmol/L, but we can't be sure. We would be absolutely shocked if they were below 9.9 or above 52.4."

Jasksta

Don't think my gp would refer me to an endo. Had a hard enough time just getting him to test test levels..

1ZRed

Jasksta wrote: »

Don't think my gp would refer me to an endo. Had a hard enough time just getting him to test test levels..

What's with that? My own GP was very reluctant to do it and I had to badger him into it.

Seems like a reasonable enough thing to ask for in fairness.

Brian?

So you got your testosterone checked and it's fine. But you wanted a different answer?

The reason GPs are reluctant to check test levels is probably because they constantly have lads in their late teens/early 20s who spend too much time on the internet asking to have it checked.

sigmund.jung

Doug Cartel wrote: »

I know nothing about testosterone levels, treatment, or anything like that, but...

If that "(9.9 - 52.4)"

the figures in the brackets are reference ranges

Jakasta, I think you should go resit the leaving cert, get 560+ point, do hpat, get a good score, spend 5 years doing very difficult exams, spend a gruelling year or two as a intern and a SHO in a hospital, apply for a GP training programme, spend 4 years training to be a GP then, self-diagnose and treat your condition.

Gummy Panda

Brian? wrote: »

So you got your testosterone checked and it's fine. But you wanted a different answer?

The reason GPs are reluctant to check test levels is probably because they constantly have lads in their late teens/early 20s who spend too much time on the internet asking to have it checked.

Also some steroid users get bloods before a cycle so maybe it would be seen as enabling the behaviour.

Pug160

Just a little side question here....

I was always led to believe that weight training increased testosterone, but I've recently learned that it only increases it for around 30 minutes. Can anybody shed any light on this?

btkm8unsl0w5r4

Gp's are actually reluctant to to this test because it is incredibly rare to have low testosterone or high testerosterone, without symptoms of a tumour. Most young people asking for it have the symptoms of depression.

The Internet tells us that low testerone is rampant, usually in conjunction with whatever snake oil they sell to boost it.

JJayoo

Knox Fancy Sorceress wrote: »

Gp's are actually reluctant to to this test because

Most are lazy fcukers who don't want to get off their holes, or so i believe.

btkm8unsl0w5r4

JJayoo wrote: »

Most are lazy fcukers who don't want to get off their holes, or so i believe.

Most people displaying the symptoms of low testosterone are lazy looking for a cause of their problems beyond their control...or so I believe.

Is this hugely inaccurate, insulting and idiotically ill-informed generalization also valid?

Brian?

JJayoo wrote: »

Most are lazy fcukers who don't want to get off their holes, or so i believe.

It would actually be easier for the GP to refer the OP to an endocrinologist and wash his hands with it. In fact in most cases it's easie for a GP to refer people to specialists.

So how is not referring him lazy?

A GP probably had the nurse take his bloods as well, so no real effort needed there.

Yet you put a refusal to do either down to laziness?

JJayoo

Knox Fancy Sorceress wrote: »

Most people displaying the symptoms of low testosterone are lazy looking for a cause of their problems beyond their control...or so I believe.

Is this hugely inaccurate, insulting and idiotically ill-informed generalization also valid?

No I mean most GP's are lazy feckers.

btkm8unsl0w5r4

So sitting talking to a patient about why they dont need this test, why their symptoms are probably something else that they don't yet want to accept but is a clear as day to the doctor who sees this twenty times a day, and listening the the patient drone on about what they read on the internet taking up a huge amount of valuable time, is lazy.

But just shrugging a doing what they are told by the patient and ordering the nurse take bloods sending them away to the lab and getting a re-attend fee to discuss the results somehow highly proactive. Or referring them to a specialist which take 1 minute.

What you reallyt mean is most GP dont do what they are told to do by ill informed patients

JJayoo

t would actually be easier for the GP to refer the OP to an endocrinologist and wash his hands with it. In fact in most cases it's easie for a GP to refer people to specialists.

So how is not referring him lazy?

Well no, I doubt any doctor could justify putting a patient on a waiting list and then expecting them to pay what ever fee the endocrinologist charges after the patient has already paid to see the doctor and all that for a simple blood test.

A GP probably had the nurse take his bloods as well, so no real effort needed there.

I have never heard of a local GP having a nurse on staff, big time city folk and your big time city GPs.

Yet you put a refusal to do either down to laziness?

Yes 100% yes. IMO in the eyes of most GPs you are just a walking euro sign.

btkm8unsl0w5r4

JJayoo wrote: »

Well no, I doubt any doctor could justify putting a patient on a waiting list and then expecting them to pay what ever fee the endocrinologist charges after the patient has already paid to see the doctor and all that for a simple blood test.



I have never heard of a local GP having a nurse on staff, big time city folk and your big time city GPs.



Yes 100% yes. IMO in the eyes of most GPs you are just a walking euro sign.

You obviously know very little about this topic, your first point is that the GP would care what the patient has to pay, your last point is that they dont care what the patient pays and your middle point show you dont know much beyond your own experience. And another thing these test are paid for by the tax payer in the lab and are very expensive, they are not free.

JJayoo

why their symptoms are probably something else that they don't yet want to accept but is a clear as day to the doctor who sees this twenty times a day,

Do you think it's this common? Personally I feel that every man over the age of 40 should have regular tests on their hormone levels. I asked my dad to inquire about it, he is 63 and very active, and the doctor said "it's not really important".

I have one friend who has been a GP since 2006 and I recently asked him is TRT common. I was curious because a lot of mma fighters use/abuse it. He has never had a single person ask about it, but he has done the tests on his dad/uncles.

JJayoo

Knox Fancy Sorceress wrote: »

You obviously know very little about this topic, your first point is that the GP would care what the patient has to pay, your last point is that they dont care what the patient pays and your middle point show you dont know much beyond your own experience. And another thing these test are paid for by the tax payer in the lab and are very expensive, they are not free.

Your posts are really hard to read.

My " first point" is not that the GP would care about the cost, it's that the GP would be questioned by his patient on why instead of having his blood taken by the GP he is being put on a waiting list and then expected to pay another fee to a specialist. Perhaps you would have no problem being put on a waiting list and paying 100 + euro for a simple blood test.

and your middle point show you dont know much beyond your own experience

What?

btkm8unsl0w5r4

JJayoo wrote: »

Do you think it's this common?

No they see 20 depressed people every day...read between the lines here and google the symptoms of testerone deficient. Your own feelings about what test should be done has no bearing on what is actually best practice, leave that to the doctors.

JJayoo wrote: »

's that the GP would be questioned by his patient on why instead of having his blood taken by the GP he is being put on a waiting list and then expected to pay another fee to a specialist.

As for your difficulty reading, I cant help you with that. You don't wait for a private referral, only a public one which you don't pay for...why would the 100% of your greedy GP's care about your ability to pay 100 euro.

JJayoo wrote: »

What?

The fact you have never been to a GP with a nurse does not not mean most GP;s dont have a nurse...yes older men get this test as a number of cancers secret testosterone and other hormones.

Are you trying the help the OP here or grind an Axe against GP's

JJayoo

Knox Fancy Sorceress wrote: »

No they see 20 depressed people every day...read between the lines here and google the symptoms of testerone deficient

Not trying to argue with you. I was just b1tching about GPs and their attitude to TRT for older men. I just don't agree that we should accept that with age things begin to go downhill. This is pretty much what my dad has been told when he inquired.

Sorry OP for derailing your post, I shall make tea now.

JJayoo

Are you trying the help the OP here or grind an Axe.

The latter.

To the OP do you supplement your diet with vitamin D3? This is the vitamin your skin makes when exposed to sunshine. I started taking 10000 iu about a year ago and noticed an improvement in my skin, sleep and general mood. It must be noted that during this time I was working nights so I saw zero sunlight.

It has been linked in several studies to seasonal affective disorder, and as you may have noticed we don't get much sunshine. Unlike vitamin D which is found in oily fish like salmon, Vit D3 is only really found in herring.

siochain

Knox Fancy Sorceress wrote: »

Normal Range, means if you within the range your normal. Its like being normal height, somebody between 5'2 and 6'4 is normal, if your 5'2 and want to be taller thats one thing but your not abnormally short.

Normal values are the range within 95% of people are, as per this graph,


A lot of hormone tests and blood test have these large spreads of normal ranges, the fact that your at the lower end of the range means nothing. You have normal testerone levels from a medical perspective. You might find that the level changes with time of day, activity levels, sexual activity etc so you might be higher at some points, thats why the range is used.

Seems the result was not the one you were hoping for? Maybe your GP would discuss this with you further?

to get a more accurate assessment the graph would need to be specific to the patients age range and use a number of blood samples from the patient at different times?

see graph here http://mycontentwizard.blogspot.ie/2010/07/normal-testosterone-levels-in-men-by.html

The Guvnor

No idea what would be a typical result - does anyone know what is more typical.

MrPain

Assuming you are between the age of 25-34 the average test level is 21.38 according one study of 45 subjects in that age group with a standard deviation 5.9 meaning that at a test level of 15nmol/l would still be higher than 16% of those in the study.
Source: Vermeulen, A. (1996). Declining Androgens with Age: An Overview. In Vermeulen, A. & Oddens, & B. J. (Eds.), Androgens and the Aging Male (pp. 3-14). New York: Parthenon Publishing.

Also total test is a bad measure of testosterone function. Free test is of much more value. But both these measures do not reflect receptor levels which has a major effect on testosterone function. Also levels of converting enzymes have a major effect on function such 5a-reductase.

Test levels also change dramatically over the course of a day


Moral of all this: free testosterone levels are a pretty useless value on their own, they can be useful when compared to levels the same person had at a different time or when they dramatically deviate from the baseline levels, which yours does not.

Jasksta

Brian? wrote: »

So you got your testosterone checked and it's fine. But you wanted a different answer?

The reason GPs are reluctant to check test levels is probably because they constantly have lads in their late teens/early 20s who spend too much time on the internet asking to have it checked.

Yeah that's exactly right.. and then are folks that spend way too much time on forums responding to threads that they no know absolutely nothing about and contribute ZERO to the discussion.

Jasksta

sigmund.jung wrote: »

the figures in the brackets are reference ranges

Jakasta, I think you should go resit the leaving cert, get 560+ point, do hpat, get a good score, spend 5 years doing very difficult exams, spend a gruelling year or two as a intern and a SHO in a hospital, apply for a GP training programme, spend 4 years training to be a GP then, self-diagnose and treat your condition.

If I had interest in becoming a GP then I would have done exactly just that! Furthermore, If I had gone through all that to become a gp I may even listen to my patients rather than just fobbing them off.

Jasksta

Knox Fancy Sorceress wrote: »

So sitting talking to a patient about why they dont need this test, why their symptoms are probably something else that they don't yet want to accept but is a clear as day to the doctor who sees this twenty times a day, and listening the the patient drone on about what they read on the internet taking up a huge amount of valuable time, is lazy.

But just shrugging a doing what they are told by the patient and ordering the nurse take bloods sending them away to the lab and getting a re-attend fee to discuss the results somehow highly proactive. Or referring them to a specialist which take 1 minute.

What you reallyt mean is most GP dont do what they are told to do by ill informed patients

Not true!! Fist I asked for the testosterone test, gp said no. He said a thyroid test would be best as this is more accurate and he did not believe in low testosterone.

I told him, I had NO symptoms of thyroid problems. He did the test anyway. Guess what, results came back okay.

Visited him another few times before he finally agreed to test my test levels. Results came back as mentioned at the start of this thread.

Now he did not explain that my symptoms are probably something else or offer any other advice whatsoever. Handed me the results and that was pretty much that!

Jasksta

JJayoo wrote: »

Well no, I doubt any doctor could justify putting a patient on a waiting list and then expecting them to pay what ever fee the endocrinologist charges after the patient has already paid to see the doctor and all that for a simple blood test.



I have never heard of a local GP having a nurse on staff, big time city folk and your big time city GPs.



Yes 100% yes. IMO in the eyes of most GPs you are just a walking euro sign.

True, very true. They just don't care and it's as simple as that!

The whole point of starting this thread was to get opinions/advice on low testosterone, in particular the numbers on my result sheet.

I am not depressed in any way shape or form. I'm 35, very active, workout 5-6 times per week. Some weeks, twice per day. Don't drink and don't smoke and eat fairly healthy. Take Omega 3,6 and 9 aswell as mulitvitamins every day. Also supplement with protein and bcaa's every now again depending on how hard I'm training.

I have all the symptoms of low test.

Decreased sex drive
Reduced energy level
Reduced strength and endurance levels
Difficulty concentrating

I am not imagining this, it is a fact and please if you know nothing on the matter or you're just trying to be a smart ass then I'm not interested in what you have to say!

btkm8unsl0w5r4

So you know its not thyroid and its not testosterone cause these results are normal. Thats a good start. Unfortunately your symptoms are common to a number of conditions, that will have to be rules out one by one, if your GP is disinterested in treating you find a new GP. Specialist referral is an option, but it not entirely clear which specialist you should be sent to at this stage?

JJayoo

workout 5-6 times per week. Some weeks, twice per day.

That's a lot of gym work, maybe over training?

Take Omega 3,6 and 9 aswell as mulitvitamins every day

I would ditch the 6 and 9 and just focus on taking in a decent amount of Omega 3. Do you take Vit D3 ?

ZMA (zinc and magnesium) has been touted as a testosterone "booster". Zinc is very important for the production of testosterone and often we don't consume enough through our diets. It's also a good sleep aid. Try not to take with calcium as the calcium inhibits it's absorption.

Gummy Panda

Works pour 5-6 days a week and sometimes twice a day.

Maybe you are over trained?

Reported effects of overtraining:

Physiological

Lymphocytopenia[6]
Excessive weight loss
Excessive loss of body fat
Increased resting heart rate
Decreased muscular strength
Increased submaximal heart rate
Inability to complete workouts
Chronic muscle soreness
Fatigue
Increased incidence of injury
Depressed immune system
Constipation or diarrhea
Absence of menstruation
Frequent minor infections/colds
Insomnia
Heart Palpitations
Lower Testosterone Levels
Higher Cortisol Levels
Psychological

Depression
Loss of appetite
Mood Disturbance[5]
Irritability
Loss of motivation
Loss of enthusiasm
Loss of competitive drive
Performance

Early onset of fatigue
Decreased aerobic capacity
Poor physical performance
Inability to complete workouts
Delayed recovery

Brian?

Jasksta wrote: »

Yeah that's exactly right.. and then are folks that spend way too much time on forums responding to threads that they no know absolutely nothing about and contribute ZERO to the discussion.

I contributed exactly what I felt was needed.

You had your testosterone levels checked, they're within normal limits. Ergo you don't have low testosterone.

Mickk

Jasksta wrote: »

True, very true. They just don't care and it's as simple as that!

The whole point of starting this thread was to get opinions/advice on low testosterone, in particular the numbers on my result sheet.

I am not depressed in any way shape or form. I'm 35, very active, workout 5-6 times per week. Some weeks, twice per day. Don't drink and don't smoke and eat fairly healthy. Take Omega 3,6 and 9 aswell as mulitvitamins every day. Also supplement with protein and bcaa's every now again depending on how hard I'm training.

I have all the symptoms of low test.

Decreased sex drive
Reduced energy level
Reduced strength and endurance levels
Difficulty concentrating

I am not imagining this, it is a fact and please if you know nothing on the matter or you're just trying to be a smart ass then I'm not interested in what you have to say!

First of all go and get your iron/ferritin levels checked, if they are high just give blood and it will sort it and make you feel less tired ect.

Secondly total test levels are next to useless, it's free test that matters. A private clinic will test it for a fee, I know The Well in the beacon do it for about 150 euro. The interesting thing about the numbers in that study was the was total test didn't decrease dramatically with age, in fact the 35-44 age group had higher total test levels and the 45-54 group had the same levels as the 25-34 but SHBG went up steadily and free test went down.

Jasksta

From what I've been reading i have to agree: total test levels are next to useless

So why do they bother with this test?

Anyone recommend a private clinic in Limerick that will test "Free Test" Levels?