Stock / Action Screws.. Effect Zero??

Robotack

My Remington 700 SPS does not have a floating barrel. There's 2x little raised pads at the front on the forend on which the barrel rests. With the seasons all over I've been giving my guns a full spring clean. I'm wondering, if I undo the 2x screws that hold my barrel & action in my stock, and then separate the 2x parts for cleaning, will my zero be screwed up when I re-assemble??

I always thought that since the scope is fixed onto the action, the stock should have no effect, though lately I've been told different. I'm interested in this topic and the reasons why zero might / might not be effected.

And, is the answer to this question different if your barrel fully floats?

gearoidol

Robotack wrote: »

My Remington 700 SPS does not have a floating barrel. There's 2x little raised pads at the front on the forend on which the barrel rests. With the seasons all over I've been giving my guns a full spring clean. I'm wondering, if I undo the 2x screws that hold my barrel & action in my stock, and then separate the 2x parts for cleaning, will my zero be screwed up when I re-assemble??

I always thought that since the scope is fixed onto the action, the stock should have no effect, though lately I've been told different. I'm interested in this topic and the reasons why zero might / might not be effected.

And, is the answer to this question different if your barrel fully floats?

whether fully floating or not removing the action from the stock will almost always have an effect on zero.They say if you stock is pillar bedded that it reduces this but generally speaking a re-zero is needed.
Also a s far as I know those raised spots in the foreend are supposed to be there ,removing them would not be a good idea.

clivej

Just my 2 cents worth.
Both my .223 and .308 are both pillar bedded and floated and there is NO change of zero when a I take either out of the stock.
Well this is only over, say, a couple of hundred yards or so, never checked it at greater distances.

I was always told that if the barrel touches the stock then it can affect the zero ie. POI.
The weather will have a small affect of your zero as the wooden stock absorbes moisture from the air and swells the stock.

deerhunter1

Robotack wrote: »

My Remington 700 SPS does not have a floating barrel. There's 2x little raised pads at the front on the forend on which the barrel rests. With the seasons all over I've been giving my guns a full spring clean. I'm wondering, if I undo the 2x screws that hold my barrel & action in my stock, and then separate the 2x parts for cleaning, will my zero be screwed up when I re-assemble??

I always thought that since the scope is fixed onto the action, the stock should have no effect, though lately I've been told different. I'm interested in this topic and the reasons why zero might / might not be effected.

And, is the answer to this question different if your barrel fully floats?

No removing the action from the stock should not effect the zeroing/ POI

silverfox1

deerhunter1 wrote: »

No removing the action from the stock should not effect the zeroing/ POI

It depends on a lot of things. Stock type, bedding and if the barrell is floated, also if you over tighten the action screws or not tighten enough too. In a remmy sps I would guess that there will almost definitely be a change in poi.

Cass

The torque settings of the barreled action will effect zero. If you are removing them do so with a torque wrench, and record the setting for each screw. When replaced with this setting the gun should be back on zero.

Glass & Pillar bedding reduces this to the point that it is almost non existent. When i remove the barreled action from my target rifle i don't even need to use a torque wrench (although i still do) as the bedding prevent the action being over tightened. It is a physical "stop block".

Anything that touches the barrel of the rifle causes changes in the harmonics. Resulting in a shift in POI/zero. So if the rifle is zeroed with these items on it to remove them would result in a change in your zero.


Lastly the torque setting can affect accuracy as well as zero. When i had the Savage rifle (before customising) i could change the torque settings of the action screws to tighten groups or, if done wrong, make them worse. I found somewhere in the 15, 25, 30 mark done the job for me.

bravestar

Cass wrote: »

The torque settings of the barreled action will effect zero. If you are removing them do so with a torque wrench, and record the setting for each screw. When replaced with this setting the gun should be back on zero.

Glass & Pillar bedding reduces this to the point that it is almost non existent. When i remove the barreled action from my target rifle i don't even need to use a torque wrench (although i still do) as the bedding prevent the action being over tightened. It is a physical "stop block".

Anything that touches the barrel of the rifle causes changes in the harmonics. Resulting in a shift in POI/zero. So if the rifle is zeroed with these items on it to remove them would result in a change in your zero.


Lastly the torque setting can affect accuracy as well as zero. When i had the Savage rifle (before customising) i could change the torque settings of the action screws to tighten groups or, if done wrong, make them worse. I found somewhere in the 15, 25, 30 mark done the job for me.

Everything Cass said is spot on. Also, since you stock is touching the barrel any force that causes the stock to press against the barrel harder or softer ( like loading a bipod or using a rest ) will cause changes to the barrel harmonics and result in a POI shift. You want consistent shot to shot pressure on the barrel or absolutely non at all ( free floated )

Robotack

Thanks for the quality info chaps....

Throughout the deer season I cleaned bore, bolt and just about everything else. But basically I limited myself to the bits I could see for the exact reasons you've outlined above.... because a re-zero after every stalk does not appeal to me.

Do any of you break the rifle down routinely for cleaning? I'm a cleaning fanatic but couldn't cope with screwing up my POI every time. The flip side of that though, has to be the possibility of corrosion on the underside of the barrel for example; where you cannot wipe with oil without disassembly.

Cass

Robotack wrote: »

Do any of you break the rifle down routinely for cleaning?

On occasion. Mainly if it's been a wet evening, but regularly - no. not necessary.

After saying that all my rifles (bar the .22) are bedded so when i disassemble i know the torque settings are going to be the same. I also have a home "zero" method just to check. No shots needed, and done at 25 yards.

Do not be overly concerned. As said if the rifle has gotten soaked then by all means take apart, but if not an oily rag run under the barrel in a "see-saw" method does the job. obviously you canot clean under the action, but 90% of the rifle can be cleaned without disassembly.

ejg

After really wet conditions I'd flush the rifle with wd40 and wipe down.
There is only one reason why rifle manufacturers pressure bed, and that is to ensure the barrel channel gap is small and looks equal
on both sides which is a quality statement for old school shooters. From a physics point it is wrong to have pressure points on the
forend. Say you shoot a 4kg rifle off a bipod you'll have about 2kg pressure exerted through the stock on the barrel. Shoot the same
rifle off a rest under the mag box and you don't have the 2kg pressure on the forend and most likely your POI will differ.
It is time to move away from the old flawed views of narrow channel gap thinking to a more practical way of setting up a rifle.
A free floating forend with a large gap will not only shoot more consistent, cool better but is also easier to clean with say an oily rag.
As Clive said, once you have bedded a free floating rifle you will see very little change in POI after taking the barrelled action out for
a clean.
edi

clivej

bravestar wrote: »

Everything Cass said is spot on. Also, since you stock is touching the barrel any force that causes the stock to press against the barrel harder or softer ( like loading a bipod or using a rest ) will cause changes to the barrel harmonics and result in a POI shift. You want consistent shot to shot pressure on the barrel or absolutely non at all ( free floated )

ejg wrote: »

After really wet conditions I'd flush the rifle with wd40 and wipe down.
There is only one reason why rifle manufacturers pressure bed, and that is to ensure the barrel channel gap is small and looks equal
on both sides which is a quality statement for old school shooters. From a physics point it is wrong to have pressure points on the
forend. Say you shoot a 4kg rifle off a bipod you'll have about 2kg pressure exerted through the stock on the barrel. Shoot the same
rifle off a rest under the mag box and you don't have the 2kg pressure on the forend and most likely your POI will differ.
It is time to move away from the old flawed views of narrow channel gap thinking to a more practical way of setting up a rifle.
A free floating forend with a large gap will not only shoot more consistent, cool better but is also easier to clean with say an oily rag.
As Clive said, once you have bedded a free floating rifle you will see very little change in POI after taking the barrelled action out for
a clean.
edi

I agree with every thing said here. Edi is spot on with his comments. On my Sako 75 the barrel is so free floated that you can see the gap between the barrel and stock, it must be at least 2-3mm all round it.

The 2 action pillars act to stop compression of the stock when tightening up the action screws. And the bedding of the action in the stock gives you a 100% contact area of the action in the stock.







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