Kilkenny GAA Discussion Thread Mod Warning Post # 5885 #4894 & #5202

Grats

I don't agree that our full forwards were at nothing in the first half last Sunday. Certainly not all of them. The weather has to be taken into account when assessing performances. I mentioned in a previous post that it is generally accepted that it wasn't a day for forwards, backs were always going to be on top in such conditions. It was a day for digging deep, hounding and defending all over the pitch. If you watch the game back TJ Reid had a much better game than he is being credited with. He actually was on the ball a lot more than his opponent and while he didn't contribute on the score board from play he never gave up the chase. Richie Hogans goal started with TJ and he was fouled a number of times when making runs. Larkin was also involved and again on such an atrocious day he did what was required by throwing in his lot all over the pitch. It is accepted that Mark Kelly just wasn't in it and should have been taken off after twenty minutes.

Richie Power and Henry will be front runners for the Final and were always going to be in my opinion. I would think that the game plan for last Sunday was Limerick alone. The Final will require a different plan with a few different players and positions.

Tipp and Cork would have struggled to beat Limerick in similar conditions to last Sunday, don't forget that Limerick already defeated Tipp this year in better weather! That doesn't excuse our slowness in making substitutions. We just cannot handicap ourselves in such fashion in the Final.

Charlie69

Grats wrote: »

I don't agree that our full forwards were at nothing in the first half last Sunday. Certainly not all of them. The weather has to be taken into account when assessing performances. I mentioned in a previous post that it is generally accepted that it wasn't a day for forwards, backs were always going to be on top in such conditions. It was a day for digging deep, hounding and defending all over the pitch. If you watch the game back TJ Reid had a much better game than he is being credited with. He actually was on the ball a lot more than his opponent and while he didn't contribute on the score board from play he never gave up the chase. Richie Hogans goal started with TJ and he was fouled a number of times when making runs. Larkin was also involved and again on such an atrocious day he did what was required by throwing in his lot all over the pitch. It is accepted that Mark Kelly just wasn't in it and should have been taken off after twenty minutes.

Richie Power and Henry will be front runners for the Final and were always going to be in my opinion. I would think that the game plan for last Sunday was Limerick alone. The Final will require a different plan with a few different players and positions.

Tipp and Cork would have struggled to beat Limerick in similar conditions to last Sunday, don't forget that Limerick already defeated Tipp this year in better weather! That doesn't excuse our slowness in making substitutions. We just cannot handicap ourselves in such fashion in the Final.

It was obvious from very early in the game that it wasn't going to work out for Mark Kelly and if Cody has had any faults over the years one of them has certainly been his reluctance to use his bench.

A lot of people say it's a 20 man game now and certainly playing in the conditions on Sunday and the savage workrate required to keep Limerick at bay surely should have seen the massive quality on our bench being used to the full.

Make no mistake if it wasn't for a fortuitous goal from Larkin we were in big trouble in this game and Brian might have taken a bit of flak for sitting on his hands.

IrishAlice

Southern Belle wrote: »

Very slightly off topic but does anyone know for definite if we're Citywest bound?

Yep, we're headed to Citywest. The hotel announced it on their facebook page.

Speak Now

The industrial action at Irish rail on final day will be a pain if not resolved.

realdanbreen

IrishAlice wrote: »

Yep, we're headed to Citywest. The hotel announced it on their facebook page.

Tipp will be in the Burlington as usual.

savannahkat

realdanbreen wrote: »

Tipp will be in the Burlington as usual.

Not a bad place at all to watch Kilkenny and Cork Dan.

realdanbreen

savannahkat wrote: »

Not a bad place at all to watch Kilkenny and Cork Dan.

We simply can't lose to them Sav. Can you imagine,losing to them in the first all ireland semi final ever played! We'd never live it down. The Tipp boys would be treated like that Brazilian team that lost 7-1.

savannahkat

I cant imagine that Dan, but I am sure you can, if you cast your mind back to Croke Park 2012.

citykat

IrishAlice wrote: »

I agree that Murphy is a better keeper but I think Herity has massively improved since the league campaign.

He wasn't just an accident waiting to happen then, he was an accident that had happened. He's come on in leaps and bounds though and I feel a lot less nervous of him in goal than I did at the start of the year.

I've been talking to a few people who think McGarry might be working with him. Anyone know if it's true?

If there's one change I would make from Sunday it would be Herity. If Murphy is not looking good, I'd be looking around to see who else is available. I think Herity had a nightmare. His confidence is shot. He batted balls that were going wide, balls going over the bar with LK forwards on the six yard line. Only for Lady Luck and JJ's quick hands we'd be wishing LK well in the final. A goalie with no confidence destabilises the whole FB line. Unless McGarry has miraculous healing powers I don't see what can be done other than a change. BTW it gives me no pleasure in criticising a KK player like this. I was a fan of Herity and think he was worthy of his place back in 2012.

savannahkat

citykat wrote: »

If there's one change I would make from Sunday it would be Herity. If Murphy is not looking good, I'd be looking around to see who else is available. I think Herity had a nightmare. His confidence is shot. He batted balls that were going wide, balls going over the bar with LK forwards on the six yard line. Only for Lady Luck and JJ's quick hands we'd be wishing LK well in the final. A goalie with no confidence destabilises the whole FB line. Unless McGarry has miraculous healing powers I don't see what can be done other than a change. BTW it gives me no pleasure in criticising a KK player like this. I was a fan of Herity and think he was worthy of his place back in 2012.

He is an excellent shot stopper, no problem with him at all there, in that aspect he is every bit as good as Murphy but when every time he manages to hold on to an incoming high ball and you sigh with relief you know there is something wrong. The weather did not help him last Sunday but even still we have this in him even on the driest days. He is as brave as they come but this is a flaw in his game that just might cost us one day. It is a pity because otherwise he has every thing you look for in a keeper.

savannahkat

http://www.irishtimes.com/sport/gaelic-games/kilkenny-s-incredible-drive-the-ultimate-tribute-to-brian-cody-s-stewardship-1.1894902

KKCATDownUnder

Fort Stranger , couldn't agree more with your team selection for the forward line , leave Henry in full forward and not to move out past the 21 yard line for the others to feed off under the high ball , how many times have we seen him score goals in the past this way . He doesn't have to be as fit as the midfielders to carry out this role.

citykat

Unless we get crippled by injuries, don't see Henry starting the AI. His fitness hasn't been in question for a long time now. Reckon Cody believes he hasn't got the speed to compete from the start. Better to let the opposition tire and bring him on when lads and the game have slowed down. If Power fully recovers he'll start.

Charlie69

I know a free was the correct decision at the time as the foul was just outside the square, but what would TJ Reid have done if a penalty had been awarded for the trip on R Power?
As it turned out that pointed free meant Limerick had to go for a goal in the last few minutes.

Would he have gone for the goal ? I think it turned out to be a blessing that the penalty wasn't awarded as I believe Reid would have went for goal to try and seal the game, but it would have been difficult to score a goal under the new rules with a wet ball in those conditions.

citykat

Congrats to the minors and management on a great display and result Sunday. Special Kudos to Murphy for that last free. That was a pressure shot on young shoulders. I hope he had a word with his colleague who in the lead up went for goal when he only needed a point to level matters.

One thing that did disappoint me and I didn't see on the day was the confrontation between one of the KK selectors and a WD player late in the second half. The ball went over the sideline for a WD line ball which the selector caught and disputed. He then seemed to refuse to hand over the ball stuck his chest up at the WD player. For a selector to do this in any match is not acceptable; to do it to a minor is far worse. The ref made no issue of it at the time but I hope somebody has a word with him.

randd1

Assuming all are fit, this is the side I would go with for the AI:

E. Murphy
P. Murphy, JJ Delaney, J. Tyrrell
J. Holden, B. Hogan, C. Buckley
M. Fennelly, R. Hogan
TJ Reid, C. Fennelly, P. Walsh
A. Fogarty, R. Power, E. Larkin

Murphy is a better keeper than Herrity which is why I would start him. Herrity has done well, but is dodgy under the dropping ball that Murphy is at his ease with. Also think that Murphy is a better organizer and shot-stopper.

No change to the defense, they have been solid since they first played in the Galway replay and have barely put a foot wrong since then. Since that formation started together, they have conceded 1-17 to Galway, 1-9 to Dublin and 17 to Limerick, not massive scores for a defense to concede to be fair.

In midfield, I think Conor Fogarty has done a job, but has not played up to AI final standard as of yet. Mick Fennelly is a natural midfielder, covers the defense better and, crucially, helps out the HF line better with very direct running from deep that is very difficult to stop. Richie Hogan stays midfield, HOTY to date in that position, don't move him at all.

Up front, I think Colin needs to start at CF, his direct running and pace will challenge anything Tipp or Cork have for CB, but more so for his workrate coming back and covering. TJ seems to get a bit more involved when on the wing, plus his ball delivery is better through his diagonal passes. In the corner, Taggy has shown to be our best corner forward this year, certainly the one that takes the most watching. Richie Power has to start at FF the next day, his pace, directness and ability in the air is obvious. More than that, at the very least he takes watching, so we can stretch the defense.

I wouldn't start Henry, as great and all as Henry has been, he's just not a 70 minute man anymore at the highest level. Henry needs to be kept in reserve for the last 20-15 minutes, for when the game gets a bit looser. He just doesn't have the pace anymore to get away from lads, even if the brain is sharp.

citykat

randd1 wrote: »

In midfield, I think Conor Fogarty has done a job, but has not played up to AI final standard as of yet. Mick Fennelly is a natural midfielder, covers the defense better and, crucially, helps out the HF line better with very direct running from deep that is very difficult to stop. Richie Hogan stays midfield, HOTY to date in that position, don't move him at all.

I think Fogarty has been a revelation at midfield since his start vs GY. Think himself and Richie are a good combo. Plus it frees Mick for the forwards. Have Fond memories of Mick's performance vs Tipp in the league final last year from CF. Given his lack of game time this year, don't think he has the fitness for midfield.

randd1

citykat wrote: »

I think Fogarty has been a revelation at midfield since his start vs GY. Think himself and Richie are a good combo. Plus it frees Mick for the forwards. Have Fond memories of Mick's performance vs Tipp in the league final last year from CF. Given his lack of game time this year, don't think he has the fitness for midfield.

I know Fogarty has done well, and I'm fond of him as a player as he most certainly gives his all for the jersey, but I think that Fennelly is a far better midfielder, and certainly covers the ground going forward better. More than that, Fennelly distributes the ball better from midfield, which has been a problem for Fogarty in the last two games, and which directly affects the performances of the forwards.

Obviously Fogarty has done well with Hogan, he is a good foil for Richie as their styles compliment each other, with Fogarty's defensive qualities aiding Richies forward thinking.

I just think that midfield, despite what some people think, has become more important in hurling than ever, as it is the link between attack and defense, is the platform for setting up attacks or covering the defense, and more providing bodies to the attack or defense for options. Generally the side that wins the midfield battle tends to be the side that comes out on top in tight games.

So if you're looking to have the most influential midfield, then play you best midfielders. As good as Conor has been for us, and he's done a fine job, Fennelly is a better all-round midfielder, and a bit more physically imposing than Conor as well, which is what we might need against Tipp or Cork.

It might mean taking Mick Fennelly from CF, but I'd rather start Colin at CF and use his pace and workrate there, stick Richie Power FF with his pace and aerial ability, and take to the midfield battle with Mick Fennelly (who, lets not forget, is probably the best midfielder in the country).

As for the fitness at midfield, I'd let him play there for Ballyhale this weekend and see how that goes. If it goes well, he has three more weeks to improve his fitness, which should be enough time.

Hitchens

Cork (SHC semi-final v Tipperary):

Anthony Nash;

Shane O'Neill, Damien Cahalane, Stephen McDonnell;

Christopher Joyce, Mark Ellis, Lorcan McLoughlin;

Daniel Kearney, Aidan Walsh;

Conor Lehane, Bill Cooper, Seamus Harnedy;

Alan Cadogan, Patrick Cronin, Patrick Horgan.

Looks like Cronin's injury cleared up

savannahkat

Midfield is no more important today than it was way back in the mid sixties to mid 2000s. Frank Cummins, Joe Hennessy, Paddy Moran & Chunky O'Brien are just a few of the greats from that earlier period. They were in midfield because they were the best and midfield was a vital area. For a short time midfield lost some of its aura because of the increased length of deliveries by goal keepers and the running game introduced by Cork. The former still exists and takes midfielders out of the game, the second is a spent force being practiced only by Clare to its full extent and to a lesser extent by a handful of counties i.e Dublin Cork and Waterford. This year, Kilkenny's midfielders are more auxiliary backs than auxiliary forwards and for that reason, if that is the game plan, then Conor Fogarty being as good a midfielder as Cork or Tipp can field and being a better back than said four, should be the one to stay in midfield alongside Mick Fennelly.
Ritchie Hogan must go back to the forwards, even half forward, where he can have the same influence as a third midfielder allowing Larkin to stay inside (where he should be anyway) being a threat on goal and keeping the corner back fixed in that position. Henry must start because there is no way the opposition are going to let him roam and to be brutal about it Kilkenny do not have a better full forward. We can talk about all the others, none have cut even a decent attempt at filling the full forwards role including Ritchie Power when tried there. Ritchie Power is a center forward, Colin a corner forward. TJ a half forward. Those are our best six forwards so let them start and let them start in their best positions and let Cork or Tipp worry about stopping us.

kkcat34

What bout this team for final murphy murphy jj jackie holden hogan buckley t walsh p walsh tj mf power cf r hogan taggy

kkcat34

KKCATDownUnder wrote: »

Fort Stranger , couldn't agree more with your team selection for the forward line , leave Henry in full forward and not to move out past the 21 yard line for the others to feed off under the high ball , how many times have we seen him score goals in the past this way . He doesn't have to be as fit as the midfielders to carry out this role.

Like hear comments regarding this team for final murphy pm jj jackie holden hogan buckley t walsh p walsh tj mf r power cf r hogan taggy

kkcat34

What bout tommy and padraig walsh midfield for final mf centre forward r hogan full forward

Hitchens

Tipperary (SHC semi-final v Cork):

Darren Gleeson;

Cathal Barrett, Paudie Maher, Paddy Stapleton;

Brendan Maher, James Barry, Kieran Bergin;

Shane McGrath, James Woodlock;

Gearóid Ryan, Patrick Maher, John O'Dwyer;

Noel McGrath, Seamus Callanan, Lar Corbett.

Tipp supporters may be worried about that midfield

realdanbreen

Hitchens wrote: »

Tipperary (SHC semi-final v Cork):

Darren Gleeson;

Cathal Barrett, Paudie Maher, Paddy Stapleton;

Brendan Maher, James Barry, Kieran Bergin;

Shane McGrath, James Woodlock;

Gearóid Ryan, Patrick Maher, John O'Dwyer;

Noel McGrath, Seamus Callanan, Lar Corbett.

Tipp supporters may be worried about that midfield

There will be at least one change to this lineup.

citykat

realdanbreen wrote: »

There will be at least one change to this lineup.

I'm on the edge of my seat waiting to find out...

IrishAlice

If we face Cork in the final the midfield battle will be immense.

Kearney and Walsh have been excellent this year for Cork and given Aidan Walsh's height, if it's Cork we meet I'd like to see Richie Hogan and Michael Fennelly in midfield.

Whoever we're facing I definitely wouldn't be moving Richie Hogan out of midfield.

ellinguistico

Having watched the match again I would make a couple of changes from some of the teams listed. Without wanting to be be too down on J. Holden (and he did well v Limerick) I just think on a dry day he could be in bother. Padraig Walsh has to start somewhere and I think his best position has proven to be right half back. He has the hurling and the speed and speed of thought to best buffer Brian Hogan along with Buckley on the other side. I don't think Conor Fogarty can be dropped, if he was wearing a different colour helmet to Richie Hogan the last day I think he would have got more kudos, he got through an amount of work and really gets the work done.
I thought Shefflin actually looked pretty sharp on a second viewing, I don't buy into the fitness thing either as he has never looked as fit to me in a long time, obviously has been doing serious work in the gym. If he had better studs last Sunday he might have made even more of an impact. I'm not as sceptical about Herrity as some on here either, think he's an excellent shot stopper and links up pretty well with the back 6. Sunday's conditions were a freak and granted he did make a few errors but maybe coming through that might stand him in better stead than Murphy coming in fresh.

Just my two cents


E. Murphy
P. Murphy, JJ Delaney, J. Tyrrell
P Walsh, B. Hogan, C. Buckley
C Fogarty, R. Hogan
TJ Reid, C. Fennelly, M. Fennelly
H.Shefflin, R. Power, E. Larkin

Charlie69

ellinguistico wrote: »

Having watched the match again I would make a couple of changes from some of the teams listed. Without wanting to be be too down on J. Holden (and he did well v Limerick) I just think on a dry day he could be in bother. Padraig Walsh has to start somewhere and I think his best position has proven to be right half back. He has the hurling and the speed and speed of thought to best buffer Brian Hogan along with Buckley on the other side. I don't think Conor Fogarty can be dropped, if he was wearing a different colour helmet to Richie Hogan the last day I think he would have got more kudos, he got through an amount of work and really gets the work done.
I thought Shefflin actually looked pretty sharp on a second viewing, I don't buy into the fitness thing either as he has never looked as fit to me in a long time, obviously has been doing serious work in the gym. If he had better studs last Sunday he might have made even more of an impact. I'm not as sceptical about Herrity as some on here either, think he's an excellent shot stopper and links up pretty well with the back 6. Sunday's conditions were a freak and granted he did make a few errors but maybe coming through that might stand him in better stead than Murphy coming in fresh.

Just my two cents


E. Murphy
P. Murphy, JJ Delaney, J. Tyrrell
P Walsh, B. Hogan, C. Buckley
C Fogarty, R. Hogan
TJ Reid, C. Fennelly, M. Fennelly
H.Shefflin, R. Power, E. Larkin

Agree with this, could have wrote it myself

savannahkat

So Far Joey Holden has played against Galway Dublin and Limerick in every kind of condition, against every kind of opponent big, small , slow fast, dry sod , wet sod and has been excellent. After each game he has received, if not a man of the match award, an honorable mention. What more has he to do to prove his worth. He has claimed ownership of the jersey in exactly the way Brian Cody likes and preaches to his troops (and troops they are) to claim ownership of a jersey once given the chance. Conor Fogarty has done exactly the same. For Brian Cody to drop either would go against everything he has been preaching since taking charge.