Do women treat married men differently?

kiffer

I think it's great that women are telling us "no it doesn't make a difference" because it reminds us that statistics are not people and just because many women find a man more attractive if they hear that he is attached then if they hear he is single doesn't mean that all women do.
Of course I doubt many women would come forward and say "Yeah, you know he's good stuff because someobe else has vetted him" though I have heard it a few times, usually followed by "but of course I'd never do anything because he's taken".

Three Seasons

dearg lady wrote: »

I'm just unobservant in general. I meant around men I know, so I already know if they are in a relationship or not. A man in a relationship doesn't make me feel more relaxed, i often feel more relaxed around a man in a relationship

Ok I view " a man ina relationship makes you more relaxed" = " I often feel more relaxed around a man in a relationship"

Bottom line you feel more relaxed around a man in a relationship so why not look for a ring. Then you can feel more relaxed.

Three Seasons

Legs.Eleven wrote: »

Size zero? When is the last time you saw a size zero woman outside of Vogue magazine? I see you live in the UK...average size is 16 there. Where are you going with your "Size zero lunacy"?

Most women are not like you mentioned above. Some are but most are not.


I wouldn't notice a wedding band on a man's hand. An attractive man is an attractive man and if he happens to be married, well I'll still find him attractive but definitely not more so. I agree with other posters in that I feel a bit more comfortable around married guys. They give off a "safe" vibe (like gay men) because you know your conversation with them won't be misconstrued for anything else and obviously I react to that.

So bottom line my suspicions about women behaving differently around married men is correct in your case.

dearg lady

Three Seasons wrote: »

Ok I view " a man ina relationship makes you more relaxed" = " I often feel more relaxed around a man in a relationship"

Bottom line you feel more relaxed around a man in a relationship so why not look for a ring. Then you can feel more relaxed.

they are 2 quite different things.
As I said, it applies to people I already know. I don't know if it would make any difference to how I feel around a man I don't know. It likely would, but it's a mostly subconscious thing, so I don't look for a ring. i don't know why you keep harping on about it. Even it was a conscious thing, sometimes humans do funny things!

Three Seasons

dearg lady wrote: »

they are 2 quite different things.
As I said, it applies to people I already know. I don't know if it would make any difference to how I feel around a man I don't know. It likely would, but it's a mostly subconscious thing, so I don't look for a ring. i don't know why you keep harping on about it. Even it was a conscious thing, sometimes humans do funny things!

I don't think it's a funny thing to do. If men in relationships make you feel more relaxed or allow you to feel more relaxed then enjoy being relaxed.

Pug160

Playboy wrote: »

How does he find married women on dating sites? They hardly advertise they are married do they?

They're probably 'adult' sites rather than conventional dating sites. From my own personal experience, most of the women on those sites are indeed married. It's seems terribly unfair that having no strings sex with a single woman seems quite hard to find, yet there are so many married women offering it. I'd personally never go there - but that's another story.

jaffacakesyum

Playboy wrote: »

I guess you must have been living under a rock for the last few years if you havent noticed the issues around female eating disorders, yo yo dieting and the aspiration to reach a weight that is not only unhealthy but one that most men do not find attractive.

Definitely, female (and male) eating disorders are a significant problem, but:

Most, some, half... no one really knows. Your experience is different to mine mostly because you are on the other side of the fence.

If you honestly think anywhere near half of women are size zero or unhealthily underweight you are seriously deluded. Obesity is a huge problem in developed countries. The incidence of obesity heavily outweighs the incidence of anorexia.

Why wont your conversation be misconstrued? You are either flirting or you arent. I dont see why a man's relationship status should affect how your conversation is construed? Whether I was in a relationship or not it was always very easy to tell if someone was flirting or not... I dont see why being married should change that. Saying that you are more relaxed around married men because they dont misconstrue your conversation is perpetuating the myth that all single straight men want to do is have sex with every woman that meet.

It doesn't matter if you're not flirting, if you are friendly and chat with men, it can be construed as leading them on, if you don't talk to them you are a b1tch. You can't win. I certainly don't think all men I speak to in day to day life are chatting me up or only want sex because I'm a woman and they're a man, they must want to have sex with me. That's not it at all and in general day to day interactions with men I don't care if they're single or not and I rarely get chatted up anyway. But in a pub/club setting if I knew a guy was taken, or he mentioned his girlfriend, I'd be much more relaxed at chatting with him than if I knew/suspected he was single.


Anyway, I guess that's all a little off topic. More on topic, I wouldn't notice a wedding ring on a man but I guess I'm more in the younger age group. Don't see why any women would be more attracted to married men. In my opinion I think it's another lazy stereotype like "women love bad boys" etc. It's hard to be objective about these things. Even if there is a correlation in one specific case, doesn't mean there is a causation.

The Corinthian

Pug160 wrote: »

They're probably 'adult' sites rather than conventional dating sites.

I would hope that all dating sites are 'adult', TBH.

As to the titular question, I don't think so. There certainly is a "he has a woman, ergo he is now more attractive" thing going on in women, in my experience, but to suggest that this is so powerful as to affect female behaviour outside of a small minority would be like saying that 'gentlemen prefer blonds' dictates that we'll always go for a blond over a brunette.

Now wear a wedding ring and after chatting with a woman for a while tell them you lost your wife in a tragic [INSERT CAUSE] two years ago, and that's another story.

eviltwin

Maybe some of the posters here are reading too much into things? Perhaps they see flirting when all the woman is trying to do is be nice, friendly etc? Unless there is a direct come on, how can anyone be sure of another's intentions?

Legs.Eleven

Playboy wrote: »

Why wont your conversation be misconstrued? You are either flirting or you arent. I dont see why a man's relationship status should affect how your conversation is construed? Whether I was in a relationship or not it was always very easy to tell if someone was flirting or not... I dont see why being married should change that. Saying that you are more relaxed around married men because they dont misconstrue your conversation is perpetuating the myth that all single straight men want to do is have sex with every woman that meet.

Yes. That's exactly what I was saying.

Good god.

I was giving my opinion on how I feel. Not ALL women.

Three Seasons

eviltwin wrote: »

Maybe some of the posters here are reading too much into things? Perhaps they see flirting when all the woman is trying to do is be nice, friendly etc? Unless there is a direct come on, how can anyone be sure of another's intentions?

It appears to be obvious that many women feel more relaxed when a man is in a relationship, so women do in fact behave differently if a man is married. If you feel more relaxed you behave differently.

Pug160

Three Seasons wrote: »

It appears to be obvious that many women feel more relaxed when a man is in a relationship, so women do in fact behave differently if a man is married. If you feel more relaxed you behave differently.

It's reading stuff like that from women that makes me wish I didn't have a sex drive sometimes. It's also the reason some guys don't bother even trying to talk to women when they're out.

Legs.Eleven

Pug160 wrote: »

It's reading stuff like that from women that makes me wish I didn't have a sex drive sometimes. It's also the reason some guys don't bother even trying to talk to women when they're out.

From A singular woman.


You're looking to be offended and it's really bizarre. Thank god it's only (as you say) some guys.

Playboy

jaffacakesyum wrote: »

Definitely, female (and male) eating disorders are a significant problem, but:



If you honestly think anywhere near half of women are size zero or unhealthily underweight you are seriously deluded. Obesity is a huge problem in developed countries. The incidence of obesity heavily outweighs the incidence of anorexia.

I think you got a little confused... the second comment you quoted from me wasn't in relation to eating disorders or size zero so thankfully I'm not as deluded as you thought I was.

jaffacakesyum wrote: »

It doesn't matter if you're not flirting, if you are friendly and chat with men, it can be construed as leading them on, if you don't talk to them you are a b1tch. You can't win. I certainly don't think all men I speak to in day to day life are chatting me up or only want sex because I'm a woman and they're a man, they must want to have sex with me. That's not it at all and in general day to day interactions with men I don't care if they're single or not and I rarely get chatted up anyway. But in a pub/club setting if I knew a guy was taken, or he mentioned his girlfriend, I'd be much more relaxed at chatting with him than if I knew/suspected he was single.

I honestly don't know where this attitude comes from. I think the vast majority of men don't think a woman is coming on to them just because she talks to him. It's quite easy to talk and not be flirtatious. Maybe this approach to talking to me men says more about women than men. Maybe women are afraid of upsetting the guys partner rather than leading him on. In my experience women are pretty sensitive when it comes to other woman talking to their partner especially if she is pretty and regardless of whether she is obviously flirting.

jaffacakesyum wrote: »

Anyway, I guess that's all a little off topic. More on topic, I wouldn't notice a wedding ring on a man but I guess I'm more in the younger age group. Don't see why any women would be more attracted to married men. In my opinion I think it's another lazy stereotype like "women love bad boys" etc. It's hard to be objective about these things. Even if there is a correlation in one specific case, doesn't mean there is a causation.

I dont think it's a lazy stereotype.. it definitely doesn't apply to all women but it does to as significant portion of women as does the bad boy attraction. I have known many ladies who openly admit to liking to bad boys... admittedly I know less who openly say they are attracted to attached guys but I dont think that guys are just making this stuff up.

jaffacakesyum

Playboy wrote: »

I honestly don't know where this attitude comes from. I think the vast majority of men don't think a woman is coming on to them just because she talks to him. It's quite easy to talk and not be flirtatious. Maybe this approach to talking to me men says more about women than men. Maybe women are afraid of upsetting the guys partner rather than leading him on. In my experience women are pretty sensitive when it comes to other woman talking to their partner especially if she is pretty and regardless of whether she is obviously flirting.

It comes from years of chatting to men in bars (not flirting) and them losing interest straight away or getting p1ssed off when they realise I'm not into them that way. I don't see how this situation says more about women than men, but please enlighten me. Also have never felt cautious about upsetting a man's partner but maybe it's just because I'm oblivious, after all I'm just chatting, having a laugh, not flirting.

I dont think it's a lazy stereotype.. it definitely doesn't apply to all women but it does to as significant portion of women as does the bad boy attraction. I have known many ladies who openly admit to liking to bad boys... admittedly I know less who openly say they are attracted to attached guys but I dont think that guys are just making this stuff up.

What would you categorise as a lazy stereotype? How about this one "Men only chat to girls in bars cos they're interested in getting a leg over". I know many men who admit this, therefore it's not a lazy stereotype? That's the logic you're using with the "women like bad boys" and "women like married men" points and I'm not buying it. I'm not saying there aren't women out there who find bad boys and married men more attractive. There most certainly are. I'm not saying there aren't men who only go out talking to women looking for sex. There most certainly are those men. But to say a "significant portion of women" find married men or bad boys more attractive is lazy and based on a small sample of people.

In my humble opinion of course

Playboy

jaffacakesyum wrote: »

It comes from years of chatting to men in bars (not flirting) and them losing interest straight away or getting p1ssed off when they realise I'm not into them that way. I don't see how this situation says more about women than men, but please enlighten me. Also have never felt cautious about upsetting a man's partner but maybe it's just because I'm oblivious, after all I'm just chatting, having a laugh, not flirting.

I didn't realise that the location was restricted to Bars? In a bar or a nightclub if a woman approaches a stranger to chat and then complains if he thinks she is interested ... Well I don't what to say tbh. I think in that context it's quite obvious why a man would get the wrong idea.

jaffacakesyum wrote: »

What would you categorise as a lazy stereotype? How about this one "Men only chat to girls in bars cos they're interested in getting a leg over". I know many men who admit this, therefore it's not a lazy stereotype? That's the logic you're using with the "women like bad boys" and "women like married men" points and I'm not buying it. I'm not saying there aren't women out there who find bad boys and married men more attractive. There most certainly are. I'm not saying there aren't men who only go out talking to women looking for sex. There most certainly are those men. But to say a "significant portion of women" find married men or bad boys more attractive is lazy and based on a small sample of people.

In my humble opinion of course

No one here is saying all women do anything but some women do like bad boys and some like attached men. The stereotypes are culturally pervasive enough that plenty of men and woman can confirm reoccurring encounters with people who conform to the stereotypes. For me that would indicate a significant portion of woman do in fact feel like this... What percentage is significant is debatable but it certainly doesn't mean all or most. I don't see how the stereotype is lazy if it is in fact true in some cases and nobody is generalising to all women?

iptba

iptba wrote: »

I read before that women are more attracted to men who other women find attractive. However, most women I imagine aren't interested in a trying to have a relationship with a married man.

Sample reference:

Women Are More Attracted to a Man If Other Women Like Him Too

Males, on the contrary, are not

http://news.softpedia.com/newsPDF/Women-Are-More-Attracted-to-a-Man-if-Other-Women-Like-Him-Too-44640.pdf
or
http://news.softpedia.com/news/Women-Are-More-Attracted-to-a-Man-if-Other-Women-Like-Him-Too-44640.shtml

jaffacakesyum

Playboy wrote: »

I didn't realise that the location was restricted to Bars? In a bar or a nightclub if a woman approaches a stranger to chat and then complains if he thinks she is interested ... Well I don't what to say tbh. I think in that context it's quite obvious why a man would get the wrong idea.

I'm just speaking from personal experience with the bar/club setting. I've already said in this thread that personally in the bar/club setting if I get chatting to a guy I'm not interested in sexually, I'm more comfortable if I know they're taken. In other setting such as I dunno the supermarket or something it's unlikely to matter whether someone's single or not, the conversation is probably limited. If we're talking at the bus stop and a man gets chatting to me, it depends on the nature of it, but yes sometimes in that setting I would also be more comfortable if he dropped in the conversation that he had a girlfriend. I'd be able to relax and not have to worry about "leading him on" (and once again, by "leading him on" I mean just being friendly, not flirty. I'm sure it seems ridiculous to you that I'd have to worry about leading someone on without being flirtatious in the slightest, but you'll just have to trust me on this one).

Also, I apologise, as I dropped into this conversation, but I didn't realise you were talking about women approaching men? What do you mean by this? If I specifically walk up to a guy in a bar and say "hey how are you?" than yeah, that's approaching him. But if I bump into him in a busy pub, or we're waiting to get served at the bar, that's not approaching. That's just general conversation. And those are the times when I'm happy to chat away to anyone, male or female, but with men you do have to worry about being seen as a "prick tease" :rolleyes: when all you're doing is being friendly.

No one here is saying all women do anything but some women do like bad boys and some like attached men. The stereotypes are culturally pervasive enough that plenty of men and woman can confirm reoccurring encounters with people who conform to the stereotypes. For me that would indicate a significant portion of woman do in fact feel like this... What percentage is significant is debatable but it certainly doesn't mean all or most. I don't see how the stereotype is lazy if it is in fact true in some cases and nobody is generalising to all women?

I know you're not saying all women do anything, but you're saying a significant amount do. I disagree. Same way I see "All men think through their d1cks" as a lazy stereotype. Some men do, some don't. That's as simple as it gets for me really, but if you disagree than I'm not going to change your mind.

shoos

Have to back up jaffacakesyum on the catch 22 that sometimes goes on in pubs and clubs.

Most of the time if I get talking to someone in a bar, they ask for my number or conversation takes an uncomfortable flirty turn, I tell them nicely that I actually have a boyfriend and they'll react grand with a "that's no problem, hope you have a good night". Fine.

But sometimes, they'll react with some aggression and anger because in their eyes just from talking to them, I've apparently led them on. And just like jaffacakesyum mentioned, I'm not flirting with them, I can't flirt anyway for my life, just having a nice normal conversation.

I noticed this immediately when I first started going out at 18 and I remember my friends and I having conversations about it at the end of the night because we'd all have experienced it. After it happened a couple of times, I put my guard up. If a guy started talking to me at a bar I'd reply politely but try get back to my friends, to which you'd sometimes get a "Jesus Christ, I was only trying to talk to ya", "stuck up bitch" etc. etc. Can't win.

That's why when a guy mentions he has a girlfriend you can just relax. There's none of this "crap, if I talk to him he might get the wrong impression and think I'm leading him on, but if I don't talk to him he's going to think I'm completely up myself thinking all guys want me". The girlfriend/wife introduction gets rid of all of that. You can just relax and have a conversation with no worries.

Three Seasons

shoos wrote: »

Have to back up jaffacakesyum on the catch 22 that sometimes goes on in pubs and clubs.

Most of the time if I get talking to someone in a bar, they ask for my number or conversation takes an uncomfortable flirty turn, I tell them nicely that I actually have a boyfriend and they'll react grand with a "that's no problem, hope you have a good night". Fine.

But sometimes, they'll react with some aggression and anger because in their eyes just from talking to them, I've apparently led them on. And just like jaffacakesyum mentioned, I'm not flirting with them, I can't flirt anyway for my life, just having a nice normal conversation.

I noticed this immediately when I first started going out at 18 and I remember my friends and I having conversations about it at the end of the night because we'd all have experienced it. After it happened a couple of times, I put my guard up. If a guy started talking to me at a bar I'd reply politely but try get back to my friends, to which you'd sometimes get a "Jesus Christ, I was only trying to talk to ya", "stuck up bitch" etc. etc. Can't win.

That's why when a guy mentions he has a girlfriend you can just relax. There's none of this "crap, if I talk to him he might get the wrong impression and think I'm leading him on, but if I don't talk to him he's going to think I'm completely up myself thinking all guys want me". The girlfriend/wife introduction gets rid of all of that. You can just relax and have a conversation with no worries.

You make a very good point shops, all men should read this.

ToxicPaddy

shoos wrote: »

Have to back up jaffacakesyum on the catch 22 that sometimes goes on in pubs and clubs.

Most of the time if I get talking to someone in a bar, they ask for my number or conversation takes an uncomfortable flirty turn, I tell them nicely that I actually have a boyfriend and they'll react grand with a "that's no problem, hope you have a good night". Fine.

But sometimes, they'll react with some aggression and anger because in their eyes just from talking to them, I've apparently led them on. And just like jaffacakesyum mentioned, I'm not flirting with them, I can't flirt anyway for my life, just having a nice normal conversation.

I noticed this immediately when I first started going out at 18 and I remember my friends and I having conversations about it at the end of the night because we'd all have experienced it. After it happened a couple of times, I put my guard up. If a guy started talking to me at a bar I'd reply politely but try get back to my friends, to which you'd sometimes get a "Jesus Christ, I was only trying to talk to ya", "stuck up bitch" etc. etc. Can't win.

That's why when a guy mentions he has a girlfriend you can just relax. There's none of this "crap, if I talk to him he might get the wrong impression and think I'm leading him on, but if I don't talk to him he's going to think I'm completely up myself thinking all guys want me". The girlfriend/wife introduction gets rid of all of that. You can just relax and have a conversation with no worries.

All very valid points shoos and you're probably like most of the girls out there who have experienced the exact same thing.

I have been in pubs/clubs etc over the years and you strike up a conversation with some girls and its like you just insulted their dead granny with the looks they give you.. So I just shrug and leave them to it. It seems a conversation with them is a bad thing. :rolleyes:

I have also chatted to some girls as part of a group I have been in and it was just a conversation, at the end of the night I get up to leave and then its a case of why the hell have you been wasting my time chatting to me if nothing is gonna happen..

These days a simple conversation can be mistaken for a number of things so its nearly impossible to figure out what's going on in the girls head.

But that is not the girls fault most of the time as Shoos has pointed out, most have their guard up due to the fact that probably 90% of the time when some random guy talks to them, its to chat them up.

With a wedding ring, I think it should be very obvious that a guy is simply there to chat (yes I know thats not always the case!!) but hopefully most of the time.

If I'm seeing someone, I make a point of dropping it in the conversation very very early on so there is no mistaken intentions on either parties behalf.

I have had a lot female friends from a very early age so never really went through the whole ohh girls, weird and wonderful mysterious creatures thing that most guys went through in their teen years, as a result I'm very comfortable talking to girls just about everyday things and without trying to chat them up, unfortunately that seems to be mistaken by a lot of girls as being chatted up so now days I rarely talk to girls I don't know, its just easier that way. :cool:

Playboy

I think the example of a club or pub is very specific one and context is important as a lot of single people go to these places looking to hook up with someone. In terms of people treating married individuals differently in this context then maybe there is a rationale for why.

But for a lot of people (including myself) a trip to the pub might only happen a couple of times a month for a few hours. The vast majority of my interactions with women are outside of this setting such as in work etc. I think in settings where alcohol hasnt been consumed it is a lot easier to distinguish who is flirting and who isnt and if in fact women treat you differently because you are married.

shoos

ToxicPaddy wrote: »

All very valid points shoos and you're probably like most of the girls out there who have experienced the exact same thing.

I have been in pubs/clubs etc over the years and you strike up a conversation with some girls and its like you just insulted their dead granny with the looks they give you.. So I just shrug and leave them to it. It seems a conversation with them is a bad thing. :rolleyes:

I have also chatted to some girls as part of a group I have been in and it was just a conversation, at the end of the night I get up to leave and then its a case of why the hell have you been wasting my time chatting to me if nothing is gonna happen..

These days a simple conversation can be mistaken for a number of things so its nearly impossible to figure out what's going on in the girls head.

But that is not the girls fault most of the time as Shoos has pointed out, most have their guard up due to the fact that probably 90% of the time when some random guy talks to them, its to chat them up.

With a wedding ring, I think it should be very obvious that a guy is simply there to chat (yes I know thats not always the case!!) but hopefully most of the time.

If I'm seeing someone, I make a point of dropping it in the conversation very very early on so there is no mistaken intentions on either parties behalf.

I have had a lot female friends from a very early age so never really went through the whole ohh girls, weird and wonderful mysterious creatures thing that most guys went through in their teen years, as a result I'm very comfortable talking to girls just about everyday things and without trying to chat them up, unfortunately that seems to be mistaken by a lot of girls as being chatted up so now days I rarely talk to girls I don't know, its just easier that way. :cool:

That's interesting it happens to lads as well. Why does a conversation have to mean anything more than a conversation? Some people are just weird. And it's such a pity when it means girls and boys don't end up talking to each other on nights out cause that's all part of the fun in being out in the first place, getting to know new people. It's the desperate horny ones ruining it for the rest of us :rolleyes:

I just wanted to clarify that while I've had my guard up on nights out when someone gets chatting to me, I'll never to rude or brush them off, or look at them like they just insulted my granny haha. To be honest, that's on par with a guy calling me a bitch for leading him on. It's just nasty, immature behaviour and I'd be embarrassed for anyone who acts like that.

Piliger

shoos wrote: »

That's interesting it happens to lads as well. Why does a conversation have to mean anything more than a conversation? Some people are just weird. And it's such a pity when it means girls and boys don't end up talking to each other on nights out cause that's all part of the fun in being out in the first place, getting to know new people. It's the desperate horny ones ruining it for the rest of us :rolleyes:

I just wanted to clarify that while I've had my guard up on nights out when someone gets chatting to me, I'll never to rude or brush them off, or look at them like they just insulted my granny haha. To be honest, that's on par with a guy calling me a bitch for leading him on. It's just nasty, immature behaviour and I'd be embarrassed for anyone who acts like that.

You're 100% right. But what you have to realise, and probably do anyway, is that men are different than women, completely. They always will be. Young men, and even older ones :P have hormones that make them have one goal always 'in sight'. It may not be the top top priority in a conversation, but it will always be on the list ... somewhere. Even if he knows it will probably never happen.

The trick is to accept that and then learn to live with it and work with it. Most guys enjoy the frisson that is part of the chat with a lady even if sex is not on the top of the list. The 'maybe I do and maybe I don't .... and maybe she will and maybe she won't' is a super important part of most men's chemistry.

Some women find this off putting and difficult to absorb. But many women learn this very quickly and then have no trouble having conversations that allow for a little flirting, and being confident they can walk away and keep control. Of course there is nothing anyone can do about the small percentage of men who are just ignorant and thick ... who take any kind of flirting as a YES. Copping to that quickly must be one of the most difficult things for a women, I imagine.

jaffacakesyum

Piliger wrote: »

You're 100% right. But what you have to realise, and probably do anyway, is that men are different than women, completely. They always will be. Young men, and even older ones :P have hormones that make them have one goal always 'in sight'. It may not be the top top priority in a conversation, but it will always be on the list ... somewhere. Even if he knows it will probably never happen.

The trick is to accept that and then learn to live with it and work with it. Most guys enjoy the frisson that is part of the chat with a lady even if sex is not on the top of the list. The 'maybe I do and maybe I don't .... and maybe she will and maybe she won't' is a super important part of most men's chemistry.

Some women find this off putting and difficult to absorb. But many women learn this very quickly and then have no trouble having conversations that allow for a little flirting, and being confident they can walk away and keep control. Of course there is nothing anyone can do about the small percentage of men who are just ignorant and thick ... who take any kind of flirting as a YES. Copping to that quickly must be one of the most difficult things for a women, I imagine.

I find it ironic that in tGC where in Men's Rights threads, sexism threads etc. if a woman said that about men she'd be lambasted. Men aren't some mysterious creature from Mars. Men and women aren't as inherently different as society portrays. There are differences, physiologically of course, but we are all human. Men aren't sex-crazed animals where if they talk to any remotely good looking woman sex is on his 'list of priorities'. Some men are only after sex all the time, some aren't. Same for women.

As for your second point, I don't get it. Are you basically saying women should be allowed to flirt and still have control of the conversation and walk away when not interested? Well, I agree with you but I'd advise any woman NOT to do this particularly in a pub/club setting or somewhere where drink is involved. I've learnt from experience that it's easier just to be reserved unfortunately, until you know he's not interested in you.

The Corinthian

jaffacakesyum wrote: »

I find it ironic that in tGC where in Men's Rights threads, sexism threads etc. if a woman said that about men she'd be lambasted.

In fairness you get that kind of attitude everywhere, even in tLL. Partially, I believe that we have all become increasingly 'thin skinned' on the subject, but also because there is a tendency for people, of either gender, to hold onto some 'truths' that they get very upset at if challenged.

Men aren't some mysterious creature from Mars. Men and women aren't as inherently different as society portrays. There are differences, physiologically of course, but we are all human. Men aren't sex-crazed animals where if they talk to any remotely good looking woman sex is on his 'list of priorities'. Some men are only after sex all the time, some aren't. Same for women.

I do agree with you, but to what degree, I can't say, as while we're aware of the nature versus nurture differences between the genders, which is stronger and in what way, remains a hotly debated topic.

Personally I prefer to believe that many of these differences are social rather than physiological, or at least are highly mutable, and there is some evidence supporting that.

I've no doubt that any Western woman who's been on holiday in North Africa will have experienced the difference in behaviour between the local men there and those back home. If unaccompanied by a man, these guys will harass and molest an 'unprotected' woman to a level that can, and sometimes will, get completely out of control. In Egypt, this has been a serious issue, since the Arab Spring and the explanation given there is that 'immodestly' dressed women, essentially bring this upon themselves as men are physiologically a certain way and thus will lose 'control'. It's their nature.

Yet this is clearly not true; why do men, raised in a Western culture, not suddenly become borderline rapists the moment a woman with bare arms walks down the street? How can we have nudist beaches without men going completely nuts and going on rape rampages?

The difference comes from culture and upbringing, in that men - and women - are imprinted from an early age to behave in certain ways and suppress certain emotions and instincts that would be deemed anti-social in society. Or not, as is the case in some cultures.

Of course, there are still physiological differences. However, it does appear that we do have the power to drastically alter ourselves from those pre-set tendencies.

Piliger

jaffacakesyum wrote: »

I find it ironic that in tGC where in Men's Rights threads, sexism threads etc. if a woman said that about men she'd be lambasted. Men aren't some mysterious creature from Mars. Men and women aren't as inherently different as society portrays. There are differences, physiologically of course, but we are all human. Men aren't sex-crazed animals where if they talk to any remotely good looking woman sex is on his 'list of priorities'. Some men are only after sex all the time, some aren't. Same for women.

As for your second point, I don't get it. Are you basically saying women should be allowed to flirt and still have control of the conversation and walk away when not interested? Well, I agree with you but I'd advise any woman NOT to do this particularly in a pub/club setting or somewhere where drink is involved. I've learnt from experience that it's easier just to be reserved unfortunately, until you know he's not interested in you.

I hope you start to understand men a bit more as you get older and get a better handle on feminism's obsession with 'sexism' accusations. You clearly appear to be obsessed with women as victims and men as perps.

Piliger

The Corinthian wrote: »

Of course, there are still physiological differences. However, it does appear that we do have the power to drastically alter ourselves from those pre-set tendencies.

Your implication - that men can make themselves the same as women, if they chose to, is appallingly naive. As is the suggestion that to recognise that men are fundamentally different to women is a sexist concept.

jaffacakesyum

Piliger wrote: »

I hope you start to understand men a bit more as you get older and get a better handle on feminism's obsession with 'sexism' accusations. You clearly appear to be obsessed with women as victims and men as perps.

Yeah, nothing wins an argument like a bit of patronising "oh you don't understand men, wait til your older" *pats little girl on the head* lmao :pac:

Are you going to discuss the points raised in my post or just be dismissive? Ironically, you're saying I'm obsessed with a feminist 'ideal' of women being victims, yet if I were to be expressing that point I'd be agreeing with your post, not disputing it. Instead, I'm disagreeing with you that all men are sex-obsessed. You can sure as hell guarantee, if I claimed that every man who talks to me has sex somewhere on their 'list of priorites' as I put it, you would be swooping in to correct me, and rightly so.

I agree with what The Corinthian said; there are physiological differences between men and women but a lot of it is to do with society and cultural upbringing.

Three Seasons

Although this may be slightly off topic. I feel I should sayI don't always have sex on my mind when talking to women and I think it is a strange generalisation. I never think of sex with women I find unattractive for a start, and that's probably 95% of women I encounter, then of the ones I do find attractive, unless I'm particularly horny that day I don't think of them sexually.