Bringing back species, engineering humans, altering plans, are we playing god?

steddyeddy

The first conference dealing with the possibility of bringing back extinct animals like the neanderthal, mammoth and the thylacine.

This is brilliant news imo. A lot of the animals like the thylacine and the passenger pigeon where wiped out by humans seeking to "control" their populations.

This however is not without controversy. Several debates have risen in the scientific community over the ethics involved in bringing back the neandertal, gentically modifying corn or engineering kids to have blue eyes or whatever other features their future parents want. I personally have no issue with any of the above.

Heres a video response to the conference which gives a taste of the views on both sides.

Here's a link to the conference information itself and details of how to clone a mammoth .

castletownman

I wouldn't say we are playing God given that science is a known entity.

squod

castletownman wrote: »

I wouldn't say we are playing God given that science is a known entity.

What?

Pushtrak

I wouldn't say we're playing non-existent.

steddyeddy

castletownman wrote: »

I wouldn't say we are playing God given that science is a known entity.

Playing god is a figure of speech. Please tell me things have got that bad that people cant mention the concept of god or the word "god" without getting criticised.

Praetorian Saighdiuir

I always wanted a Dodo

Canard

I don't really see it as any more playing God than making the species extinct in the first place to be honest.

steddyeddy

Patchy~ wrote: »

I don't really see it as any more playing God than making the species extinct in the first place to be honest.

That's the view of one of the scientists involved Patchy! Great minds think alike

james142

Well fook me sideways.

Canard

steddyeddy wrote: »

That's the view of one of the scientists involved Patchy! Great minds think alike

Noticed that after I posted it! I am a visionary. :cool::P

What plans are we talking about altering here? Plans for a conservatory out back?

Species become extinct for a reason, as Mr Darwin very capably explained. I'd need to see very compelling evidence why the reintroduction of a species is something to be desired.

I'd certainly take issue with things like engineering the color of a childs eyes. Again, I'd need to see pretty compelling evidence that this is a valuable thing to do (assuming engineering a Master Aryan Race is not what we're after) before fiddling with the regular order of things.

Just because we can do stuff, doesn't mean it's not desirable to thoroughly consider if its wise to actually go ahead and do it.

The first question is what would we gain, the second is what do we risk.

My name is URL

engineering kids to have blue eyes or whatever other features their future parents want

I want my kid to contain a nuclear device which wipes us all out.

'Bringing back' animals because 'we' caused their extinction? It's bordering on Noah's fcuking Ark tbh!

Maybe if we tried to be less destructive, consumerist and feckin' greedy as a species ourselves.. we wouldn't need to come up with ways of making ourselves feel better about wiping out others.

Killer Wench

Don't we already play 'God' by using contraceptives, mind and mood affecting medication, and other medical technologies that have improved our lives?

squod

Praetorian Saighdiuir wrote: »

a Dodo

I always wanted a Dodo burger.

Praetorian Saighdiuir

squod wrote: »

I always wanted a Dodo burger.

Oooohhh niiiice!

Or a Dodo kebab!

Bipolar Joe

Stuff like bringing back animals that were wiped out to control the population, or just because people are mostly pretty dim, is pretty cool. Bringing back Neanderthals and the woolly mammoth is a bit much, even though it would be ****ing awesome. I can't help but think Neanderthals would just become the next big thing to "Own." Engineering kids is a little too close to Gattacca for me.

longshanks

Liam Neeson would be good at playing God.

Praetorian Saighdiuir

Someone needs to sit these guys and turn on Jurrasic Park!

steddyeddy

Bipolar Joe wrote: »

Stuff like bringing back animals that were wiped out to control the population, or just because people are mostly pretty dim, is pretty cool. Bringing back Neanderthals and the woolly mammoth is a bit much, even though it would be ****ing awesome. I can't help but think Neanderthals would just become the next big thing to "Own." Engineering kids is a little too close to Gattacca for me.

Well thats the thing, its not the scientists that are worried about this. They know it can be done but the legal and ethical experts have issues with how these animals will be treated. Legal experts are having a field say with the news that they could bring back a neanderthal. Would it have human rights, who would look after it and where would it live?

uch

I like being brought back, because I'm always thrown out first, and it's nice for the lads to bring me back

Bipolar Joe

steddyeddy wrote: »

Well thats the thing, its not the scientists that are worried about this. They know it can be done but the legal and ethical experts have issues with how these animals will be treated. Legal experts are having a field say with the news that they could bring back a neanderthal. Would it have human rights, who would look after it and where would it live?

This is pretty much the problem. Let's be honest, Homo Sapien and Neanderthal don't have a great track record of getting on with each other, and there are still places where slave labour is kind of almost a thing. I think it would end up being an organ harvest or something really depressing.

foxinsox

Where would you get a lead for a mammoth?



Edit: Actually Lidl would probably sell them.

steddyeddy

foxinsox wrote: »

Where would you get a lead for a mammoth?



Edit: Actually Lidl would probably sell them.

Lidl sell everything . I would rather have a pet thylacine, they're smaller and can open their jaw wider than most mammals!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=odswge5onwY

This was the last survivng thylacine, which died in captivity. They were hunted to extinction like the passenger pigeon

DrumSteve

foxinsox wrote: »

Where would you get a lead for a mammoth?



Edit: Actually Lidl would probably sell them.

Woolworths?

(its late).

Icyseanfitz

Jurassic park here we come

steddyeddy

Bipolar Joe wrote: »

This is pretty much the problem. Let's be honest, Homo Sapien and Neanderthal don't have a great track record of getting on with each other, and there are still places where slave labour is kind of almost a thing. I think it would end up being an organ harvest or something really depressing.

Heres a statement from a geneticist on the ethics involved in bringing back a neanderthal.

Even if a clone did survive, the ethical dilemmas of raising a Neanderthal would be complicated. In some ways, Neanderthals were similar to modern humans. They used tools and created art, and they likely had the mental capacity for language and abstract thinking.
In other respects, though, Neanderthals were quite different. They went extinct before the agricultural revolution, so they would probably have difficulty stomaching our modern diet, heavy in grains and dairy. Their physical appearance—short and stocky, with big heads and strong muscles—would make them stick out, too.
"I can imagine there would be a serious emotional toll to be raised as a Neanderthal kid with a bunch of non-Neanderthal people," says Trenton Holliday, an anthropologist at Tulane University.
For example, if the Neanderthal child was far stronger than modern humans, he or she might be excluded from playing sports teams, Holliday says. If intellectually disabled—or intellectually gifted—he or she might be put into isolating educational programs.
Church agrees that these ethical issues are important to consider in any cloning project. "For any species, we want to maximize the chances that they will be born and live physically and socially healthy lives," he says.

steddyeddy

Icyseanfitz wrote: »

Jurassic park here we come

Unfortunatly they have ruled out cloning dinosaurs . There's just not much to work with.

mewithoutyou

Neanderthal Porn

Lone Stone

but with genetic engineering we can all be like human super cow's

Capt'n Midnight

I for one welcome our new Giant Sloth overlords

Hoop66

I'ma get me a T-Rex and fuck shit up

Galwayguy35

Would be nice to see them bring back the Irish wolf, seeing as that scumbag Cromwell was responsible for killing them off it would be poetic justice to have them back and him still in a hole in the ground.

Sadly it won't ever happen as Ireland is a different place to what it was when the wolf roamed around 300 years ago.

steddyeddy

Galwayguy35 wrote: »

Would be nice to see them bring back the Irish wolf, seeing as that scumbag Cromwell was responsible for killing them off it would be poetic justice to have them back and him still in a hole in the ground.

Sadly it won't ever happen as Ireland is a different place to what it was when the wolf roamed around 300 years ago.

You're right it would be nice to re-introduce the wolf but as you said Ireland is a different place now. We havent got the forests we used to have. There was talk of some animal rights groups releasing them illegally like they did the wild boar but that wouldnt be a great idea.

Ruudi_Mentari

Playing god?! mother nature you mean.. I'd like to remove billy wind's lungs, for starters. But I wouldn't fiddle with the lifeforms, might reintroduce / cull some things but that's it

smash

First dibs on a T-Rex!

smileyj1987

First dibs on a trip to jurassic park !

steddyeddy

Ruudi_Mentari wrote: »

Playing god?! mother nature you mean.. I'd like to remove billy wind's lungs, for starters. But I wouldn't fiddle with the lifeforms, might reintroduce / cull some things but that's it

Well "we need culling" mentality has resulted in the extinction of the thylacine and the passenger pigeon. The fear of wildlife has lead to the poisoning of our own endangered species, the white tailed eagle by sheep farmers. Fishermen are also calling for the culling of seals as our fish populations have declined (nothing to do with fishermen of course)

It is fiddling with nature and scientists are then the ones who have who have to clean up the mess because some halfwits believe fairystories about eagles attacking sheep or what not.

steddyeddy

Sorry for bumping this thread but the conference for de-extinction has now happened and this ted talk was put on youtube. This is one of the best talks I have ever heard and I know that this is a turning point in science and we will see the wooly mammoth sooner than we think.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XKc9MJDeqj0

To qoate the speaker, Stewart brand "The fact is humans have made a huge hole in nature in the last ten thousand years. We have the ability and moral obligation to repair some of the damage. Some species we have killed off totally.........we could consider bringing back to a world that misses them."

Mark my words this speech above will be famous. It marks the beginning of scientific de-extinction.

af_thefragile

But what about when the Dinosaurs turn on us?!?!!!

steddyeddy

af_thefragile wrote: »

But what about when the Dinosaurs turn on us?!?!!!

We unfortunately haven't the ability to bring back dinosaurs . Sabertoothed tigers are on the list though!

My name is URL

steddyeddy wrote: »

To qoate the talker Stewart brand "The fact is humans have made a huge hole in nature in the last ten thousand years. We have the ability and moral obligation to repair some of the damage. Some species we have killed off totally.........we could consider bringing back to a world that misses them."

What real 'moral obligation' do we have to bring species back from extinction? And saying stuff like "consider bringing back to a world that misses them" almost sounds more like a spiritual sort of endeavor than a scientific one.

In what way does 'the world' actually miss say, Pied Ravens? Will we also bring back hominids? What happens then.. are they kept in labs / zoos?

1ZRed

steddyeddy wrote: »

Sorry for bumping this thread but the conference for de-extinction has now happened and this ted talk was put on youtube. This is one of the best talks I have ever heard and I know that this is a turning point in science and we will see the wooly mammoth sooner than we think.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XKc9MJDeqj0

To qoate the talker Stewart brand "The fact is humans have made a huge hole in nature in the last ten thousand years. We have the ability and moral obligation to repair some of the damage. Some species we have killed off totally.........we could consider bringing back to a world that misses them."

Mark my words this speech above will be famous. It marks the beginning of scientific de-extinction.

Makes it a good time to want to get into genetic engineering anyway!

steddyeddy

1ZRed wrote: »

Makes it a good time to want to get into genetic engineering anyway!

Are you thinking of doing it?

Corkfeen

One concern that I have is that bringing back certain animals could have potential negative consequences for the ecosystem(wiping out other species in the process), if they're to be released into the wild that is. Plus if there's no ecosystem suitable for the animal. But I guess this is going to be analysed to such a large degree anyway. I personally want to see a woolly mammoth...

1ZRed

steddyeddy wrote: »

Are you thinking of doing it?

Yeah, genetics and DNA manipulation always interested me I'll follow that route I'd say.

Artful_Badger

Nothing against certain species being brought back if they can play a positive role in an ecosystem, as long as they wont be brought back to be exploited. They shoudlnt be brought back to stick them in a zoo to entertain slack jawed gawkers. Bringing back Neanderthal though is just stupid.

steddyeddy

1ZRed wrote: »

Yeah, genetics and DNA manipulation always interested me I'll follow that route I'd say.

Cool. I'm researching epigenetics at the moment so let me know if that's something you are interested in. Are you currently studying?

Truncheon Rouge

Maybe necessity can be the judge.
Real necessity, not just 'I'd like a mammoth skin hat' type necessity.

Engineering which affects the whole globe significantly should be regulated for everyones benefit. (Uranium..great stuff)

I don't see the benefit in bringing back species, except on occasion for specific questions on their anatomy. Lets not do it just for fascination and to poke it with a stick.

steddyeddy

Corkfeen wrote: »

One concern that I have is that bringing back certain animals could have potential negative consequences for the ecosystem(wiping out other species in the process), if they're to be released into the wild that is. Plus if there's no ecosystem suitable for the animal. But I guess this is going to be analysed to such a large degree anyway. I personally want to see a woolly mammoth...

The animals that are being brought back are generally keystone species that have completely changed the ecosystem by being made extinct in the first place. Wooly mammoths would be one of the easiest ones to do!

Truncheon Rouge

Artful_Badger wrote: »

They shoudlnt be brought back to stick them in a zoo to entertain slack jawed gawkers.

I read this and collapsed on a sundial.

shedweller

Steadyeddy, you mentioned "ecosystem" and i thought about how much damage we are doing to it. Consider how many species are being wiped out in south america where deforestation is taking place at a phenomenal rate. Not only that but the removal of said forest can only mean a reduction in oxygen manufacture.

So on the one hand we are wiping out species and on the other, we are planning on bringing some back.

Its like trying to drive a car with the handbrake on!

Oh, and what are the odds this bringing back of species will end up being abused? We better tread very carefully here or we'll end up in our own movie!